4171 replies to this topic

[Michael Oliver]

Anyone else notice DCN's ' test TNF members are awake ' error this month ? Clue : Ferrari Monza 1969

Or, indeed, Marcus Pye's Clue: Rob Walker 49B

Although I'll let him off, seeing as how he did describe my 49 book as 'splendid'!

Edited by Michael Oliver, 30 May 2010 - 08:08.

[bill p]

Or, indeed, Marcus Pye's Clue: Rob Walker 49B

Although I'll let him off, seeing as how he did describe my 49 book as 'splendid'!

The back half of R2/R11 was grafted onto Pete Lovely's Lotus 69 for a while - surely that was worth a mention in Marcus Pye's "Insight"??

[kayemod]

I'm hoping that the first thing that Cara and Damien will do when they return to the Motor Sport offices tomorrow morning, is to try to justify offering new subscribers a much better deal than faithful long-termers like me get, and I'd guess I'm in company with most of the others who have contributed to this long-running thread. Providing more favourable terms to new borrowers and lenders than to the many who've been keeping them in business for years, is one of the things that Banks and Building Societies (rightly) get panned for.

I'll sign myself, 'Disgruntled of Dorset'. I could of course be silenced by receiving a free copy of Chapman the Innovator, no questions will be asked...

[sterling49]

Agree totally Rob, I actually changed Building Societies for this gross mis judgement of customer loyalty. I have thought this with all offer subscriptions for a while now.....................

[D-Type]

I totally agree.

For specialist magazines, which is what Motor Sport now is, surely the way forward is to encourage subscriptions - it gives them a guaranteed baseline of income.

But what they appear to be overlooking is that it's twofold: by all means encourage new subscriptions with special offers but also acknowledge the loyal subscribers with offers rather than treat us as a captive audience for the same offers that are advertised in the magazine.

[Gary C]

Absolutely, I've been a subscriber to the 'new' Motorsport for at leats 15 years and have received absolutely nothing in the way of 'gifts', whereas someone who joins tomorrow gets a few nice bits & pieces.

[Thundersports]

I was delighted they published my anti Peter Wright rant ...!

Liked that!

On the subscriptions theme if like me your young lady lives with you why not get them to subscribe and just set up a direct debit every month to them for the amount, if there are any new subscribers "freebies" which float your boat. (Obviously cancelling your DD to the magazine.)

[kayemod]

Liked that!

On the subscriptions theme if like me your young lady lives with you why not get them to subscribe and just set up a direct debit every month to them for the amount, if there are any new subscribers "freebies" which float your boat. (Obviously cancelling your DD to the magazine.)

Does anyone have monthly DDs? Mine has always been twice each year, and it's just been collected, so nothing I can do for 5 months or so. I think they probably nipped in quick, before I had a chance to spot their latest deal for to new subscribers, though I have been mildly annoyed in the past with those free DVD offers, again only to new subscribers. I had a slight moan about that some months ago on here, and Cara said they'd be doing something to make the system fairer, but now they've piled insult upon injury by offering free copies of Karl Ludvigsen's latest work, but once again only to the Johnny-come-latelys.

[dank]

Absolutely, I've been a subscriber to the 'new' Motorsport for at leats 15 years and have received absolutely nothing in the way of 'gifts', whereas someone who joins tomorrow gets a few nice bits & pieces.

But... that's normal isn't it? I can't think of another publication (motorsport or otherwise) that rewards loyalty? I'm not saying I condone it, just saying what Motorsport Magazine do is the norm: drawing in new subscribers by dangling a carrot.

[Darren Galpin]

I received a renewal letter yesterday offering a free binder for a years subscription, or one of their DVD magazine collections for a two year subscription. But then I pay a one-off subscription fee by credit card each time. I think that Kayemod's problem is that he has a direct debit - once set up, they are forgotten about until something goes wrong. Far better to get them to ask you to renew each time.....

[kayemod]

I received a renewal letter yesterday offering a free binder for a years subscription, or one of their DVD magazine collections for a two year subscription. But then I pay a one-off subscription fee by credit card each time. I think that Kayemod's problem is that he has a direct debit - once set up, they are forgotten about until something goes wrong. Far better to get them to ask you to renew each time.....

I think I might well follow your advice and cancel my direct debit, then renewing by credit card when the current payment expires, but I don't recall being offered any non-DD option when I originally signed up, though possibly I was. One annoying aspect of the current free book offer, is that new subscribers are only paying £1 each year more than I am. A deafening silence so far from Cara & Damien, wonder if they've gone away on holiday together?

[D-Type]

I'm not surprised the price has changed from your DD. I was on a DD for a time as the price was frozen as the result of a Haymarket offer. But when it changed hands the new owners didn't accept the Haymarket promise and upped the price substantially. I then switched to the two year deal when the DVD offer came out and eventually it sorted itself out.

[cdrewett]

Change 1958 to 1968 & ditto. (Someone did give me a shed load of issues from before that date though at a later date!)

I've got a shed load of Motor Sport, every copy from 1963 to 1980 and then sporadically. If anyone wants them before the shed collapses they are very welcome to collect, but all or nothing, no cherry picking. I'm in the Warwick area, send me a pm.
Chris

[David Force]

Congratulations to deputy editor Gordon Cruickshank on his piece about the renovation of the Indy-winning Lotus 38. A super piece of writing I thought.

Absolutely. A really excellent piece which captured the spirit of the moment and is a fitting tribute to Jimmy.

I still think it would have been nice to get Dan to drive the 38 as a tribute to his friend. Maybe when it returns to Indy ?

[LittleChris]

Absolutely. A really excellent piece which captured the spirit of the moment and is a fitting tribute to Jimmy.

I still think it would have been nice to get Dan to drive the 38 as a tribute to his friend. Maybe when it returns to Indy ?

I think I read that Dario Franchitti will be driving it when it returns to Indy

[RA Historian]

I think I read that Dario Franchitti will be driving it when it returns to Indy

That is incredibly appropriate!

[P0wderf1nger]

I did the same Mark.

One niggle in this months issue ( July ) concerns the map accompanying Andy Marriotts article about his visit to the site of Jim Clarks accident at Hockenheim. It seems to show that the location of Jims accident was some way before the first of the chicanes subsequently built, but surely the location was actually further down the road ? The original memorial to Bert Hawthorne was at the same place as Jims and I thought acontributing factor in Berts case was that his engine seized exiting the first chicane and he was punted into the barrier by a following car.

(Incidentally I see there is a letter from TNFer John Aston published this month ).

And a niggle I have with Hockenheim is the revised memorial they have to Jim Clark (see photo on p51). Inscribed on the plague to the right of the original cross are the words '25 Grand Prix Wins 1962 to 1967'. But, as you'll no doubt know, the 25th win came at Kyalami on New Year's Day 1968.

[ryan86]

Maybe it was still 67 in Hawaii?

[P0wderf1nger]

Maybe it was still 67 in Hawaii?

Of course, it all makes sense now. Niggle withdrawn.

[David Birchall]

I have just returned from dumping 35 years accumulation of motoring magazines in the land fill. I keep thinking about all those words rotting away....Of course, some of it was rot anyway--but not in MotorSport I hasten to add.

[B Squared]

I think I read that Dario Franchitti will be driving it when it returns to Indy

This is what I wrote on the History marked at the 2010 Indy 500 thread on May 31:

I was told in conversation pole day morning that Ford had granted permission for Dario to drive the Jim Clark Lotus 38 at Indianapolis when it returns to the US later this year and before being returned to the Ford Museum. This win yesterday should make for a great presentation.

This information came from the gentleman who rebuilt the engine on the Clark Lotus 38. If Dan Gurney were to be granted permission to drive the car, it would be a great and most welcome addition.

[Tony Matthews]

I have just returned from dumping 35 years accumulation of motoring magazines in the land fill. I keep thinking about all those words rotting away....Of course, some of it was rot anyway--but not in MotorSport I hasten to add.

I had to do the same about 15 years ago - a mini-skip full. It was depressing but inevitable, as I couldn't even give them away. I just kept half a dozen favourite MS's, including, of course, the '55 Mille Miglia report...

[David Birchall]

Hi Tony, yes, I did the same fifteen years ago-only then I was able to sell them!
I have one box left of fifties and sixties MS and I just cannot throw them out.

[Tony Matthews]

I contacted a couple of companies that sold, amongst other things, back copies of MS, but one didn't want them, the other grudingly said that they would take them off my hands, but I would have to deliver them. I can't remember where they were, but it was a considerable distance and I didn't have a big enough vehicle to do it in one trip...It was a painfull decision, but not the first, or last! Since then I have only bought magazines when there has been an article of very great interest!

[PeterElleray]

I contacted a couple of companies that sold, amongst other things, back copies of MS, but one didn't want them, the other grudingly said that they would take them off my hands, but I would have to deliver them. I can't remember where they were, but it was a considerable distance and I didn't have a big enough vehicle to do it in one trip...It was a painfull decision, but not the first, or last! Since then I have only bought magazines when there has been an article of very great interest!

not 'Pooks' near leicester by any chance? they used to tag their adverts with 'occasionally polite'.

picked up a large number of autosports from them about 20 years ago, they had a warehouse full of MN at that time.

peter

[isynge]

I have just returned from dumping 35 years accumulation of motoring magazines in the land fill. I keep thinking about all those words rotting away....Of course, some of it was rot anyway--but not in MotorSport I hasten to add.

Feel a lot of your pain - the death of print does cut rather deeply.

I'm now at the stage where I'll chuck magazines after reading, in rare occasions either keeping an individual torn out article or, if I'm really committed, scan the pages. I see the logic, things are more accessible, and space is freed up, but it still goes against the grain.

The main argument against is my complete (bar one issue - Sebring endurance special issue from 1983) of GPI which I'm slowly but surely getting bound so a year can be readily extracted and read.

Do however have a dilemma re my mid 60s to late 80s collection of MotorSport (ebay find a few years back) - worth binding or should I stick to the electronic editions?

Would be heartbreaking exprerience to push them into recycling (and there's no excuse for it going to landfill, but that's another story).

[David Birchall]

They went into recycling but since the recycle bin is at the landfill...

[ensign14]

One thing in the current issue - a reference to Vittorio Brambilla at the Italian GP in 1969, disconsolate at being six seconds slower than Pedro Rodriguez...

...shouldn't that be Tino Brambilla?

[Formula Once]

One thing in the current issue - a reference to Vittorio Brambilla at the Italian GP in 1969, disconsolate at being six seconds slower than Pedro Rodriguez...

...shouldn't that be Tino Brambilla?

Yes it should.

As for the latest issue; in my copy the lithography was just awful, the colors were bleak and a number of pictures were printed out of focus. Just unlucky?

[LittleChris]

One thing in the current issue - a reference to Vittorio Brambilla at the Italian GP in 1969, disconsolate at being six seconds slower than Pedro Rodriguez...

...shouldn't that be Tino Brambilla?

See post 3453

[Doug Nye]

Entirely my BU - thought Tino, knew Tino, typed and proof-read Vittorio. Doh...

DCN

[RA Historian]

On the mag's web site Damien Smith gleefully informs us that the mag is plunging headlong into road car reporting. The response to this item on the site at this time totals some 60 plus posts. Of these, I would say that the negative responses are probably around 95%.

I share the concern as I suspect the vast majority of Motor Sport readers buy the mag for motor sport, not road car tests and reports. There are any number of other mags which cover that area well.

This could well be a slippery slope; the mag as it has been reconstituted over the past few years is outstanding; why in blazes are they fiddling with it by going into an area that really is not the reason people buy it?

The powers that be at Motor Sport would be well served by learning from the example of Road & Track. A number of years ago that once esteemed US mag made a deliberate move to emphasizing road cars and de-emphasizing racing. Since then Road & Track is but a pale shadow of its once great self, its pages stuffed full of endless, dull, and uninteresting road tests, comparison tests, and new car reports. It has become nothing more than another version of Motor Trend. It no longer deserves the word "Track" in its title, as the mag virtually ignores anything to do with racing anymore. The descent of Road & Track is reflected in its circulation. I seem to recall that its circulation numbers are down drastically, off by almost a third from where it traditionally was. There are reasons for this decline, and I strongly suspect that its dismal change of direction is a major reason.

I mention that because there is precedent. I hope that Damien Smith and others at Motor Sport heed this history and do not take Motor Sport in a direction that the vast majority of its readers, IMO, do not want it to go.

Oh yes, the cover of this "new and improved" magazine is dreadful.

All this is just my opinion, but I suspect that I may not be alone.

Tom

[kayemod]

Oh yes, the cover of this "new and improved" magazine is dreadful.

All this is just my opinion, but I suspect that I may not be alone.

Tom

I agree with all that, a poor cover design, and the least interesting MS for quite a long time, though as ever, it's almost worth buying for the 'Lunch With' feature alone. I wasn't too convinced by Editor Damien's recent subscriber e-mail, and reader comments on the site make the point well. We weren't asked of course, but I wonder where they got the idea that this kind of content is what readers want? I'm sure that almost all of us could have told them that it isn't.

[alansart]

I share the concern as I suspect the vast majority of Motor Sport readers buy the mag for motor sport, not road car tests and reports. There are any number of other mags which cover that area well.

I don't read the road tests in MS. If I wanted road tests I'd buy Autocar.

[dank]

I ignored the road car articles in this month's issue, much like I avoid Louise Skipper's 'look who I met this month!!!' column.

Remove both of these and I would be a happy chappy.

[Graham Gauld]

On the mag's web site Damien Smith gleefully informs us that the mag is plunging headlong into road car reporting. The response to this item on the site at this time totals some 60 plus posts. Of these, I would say that the negative responses are probably around 95%.

I share the concern as I suspect the vast majority of Motor Sport readers buy the mag for motor sport, not road car tests and reports. There are any number of other mags which cover that area well.

This could well be a slippery slope; the mag as it has been reconstituted over the past few years is outstanding; why in blazes are they fiddling with it by going into an area that really is not the reason people buy it?

The powers that be at Motor Sport would be well served by learning from the example of Road & Track. A number of years ago that once esteemed US mag made a deliberate move to emphasizing road cars and de-emphasizing racing. Since then Road & Track is but a pale shadow of its once great self, its pages stuffed full of endless, dull, and uninteresting road tests, comparison tests, and new car reports. It has become nothing more than another version of Motor Trend. It no longer deserves the word "Track" in its title, as the mag virtually ignores anything to do with racing anymore. The descent of Road & Track is reflected in its circulation. I seem to recall that its circulation numbers are down drastically, off by almost a third from where it traditionally was. There are reasons for this decline, and I strongly suspect that its dismal change of direction is a major reason.

I mention that because there is precedent. I hope that Damien Smith and others at Motor Sport heed this history and do not take Motor Sport in a direction that the vast majority of its readers, IMO, do not want it to go.

Oh yes, the cover of this "new and improved" magazine is dreadful.

All this is just my opinion, but I suspect that I may not be alone.

Tom

This probably why old Henry Manney used to refer to it a "Rodent Crap" - the later editions of course and not when he was writing for it in the heady days.

[kayemod]

I ignored the road car articles in this month's issue, much like I avoid Louise Skipper's 'look who I met this month!!!' column.

Remove both of these and I would be a happy chappy.

I'm sure that Louisa Skipper is a lovely person, but it's long been a puzzle to me why the magazine chooses to waste a whole page on fluff of this kind. I've just looked at the current Diary page (for the first time ever), and was astonished to see thereon, no fewer than SIX pictures of Ms Skipper. Surely this must be some kind of record, but please, nobody bother to tell me if by some chance, it isn't.

[Formula Once]

I like Motorsport, always have, and I welcomed the way it was revitalized a few years back, but I liked it better once, particulary at the beginning of the century. I am glad that they seem to have given up on putting modern F1-themes on the cover (the Briatore-cover, I think, was a disturbing low point), but I still regret that nowadays there seems to be more and more room for contemporary racing, be it modern or historic. A Renault F1 factory visit you'd expect in Autosport, while race reports on historic events... well, I just don't care. Nor do I want the road car stuff, leave alone the Skipper-bit. MS seems to slowly but surely change into something different than what it used to represent, but ultimately, though, if this is how the publisher expect to make money (I don't know if they do) i.e. attract more advertising, then this is how it is gonna be. Whether the traditional MS reader will like it, or if it attracts a new type of reader, I wonder.

[Frank S]

I agree with all that, a poor cover design, and the least interesting MS for quite a long time, though as ever, it's almost worth buying for the 'Lunch With' feature alone. I wasn't too convinced by Editor Damien's recent subscriber e-mail, and reader comments on the site make the point well. We weren't asked of course, but I wonder where they got the idea that this kind of content is what readers want? I'm sure that almost all of us could have told them that it isn't.

I'm afraid "what readers want" is the least of influences on what direction a magazine takes. Among the most potent excuses or motivators for change (including but not limited to): a heavy-duty investor or advertiser expresses a preference; a family member of the reigning group professes an interest; the head of an important decider has swelled due to recent successes and positive reviews; an enthusiast of some aspect of the book has gained a political advantage within the organization; general apathy or declining fortune on the part of right-thinking staff; seeing the prosperity of another publication and guessing "We can do better than that"; other brands of stupidity.

I don't look at Whatsername's page, nor Whatshisname's two or three. Fluff is a kind word for the first, and supercilious whinging for the second.

For my part, every time I have received some kind of "Here comes a wonderful improvement" message from an editor or publisher, it turns out to be a form of "We're from the government and we're here to help (because we know what's good for you, so much better than you do)". I always say, "Socks up, Boss! That's my favorite speech!" And prepare to bid them adieu.

Edited by Frank S, 04 August 2010 - 18:14.

[ensign14]

But Motor Sport of old always had road tests...indeed didn't Autosport?

[kayemod]

But Motor Sport of old always had road tests...indeed didn't Autosport?

That's right, and Bill Boddy's in MS were often shamefully biased, but always worth reading, no matter what mundane conveyance he was pontificating on. John Bolster's tests in Autosport were pretty dire though, he wrote about things like standard Austin 1100s and the like, as far as I can remember praise was usually reserved for Renaults, which for some reason he liked. He sometimes tested something more interesting that had been modified though, he did track tests as well, and those features were much better. To me though, they always seemed rather out of place within that particular magazine, which was much more racing orientated than the current Hello-style tabloidy version is today.

[retriever]

I agree with the sentiment revealed in these recent posts. If I wanted to read about road cars I would subscribe to an appropriate magazine. I am sorry as this is the thin edge of the wedge. It appears to me that the magazine is going soft - too much style over substance.

Rather than extending articles on road cars the editorial staff could be better engaged on representing sporting articles from the past and maybe a touch of DSJ's jottings.

There is an immense treasure chest to be plundered and I am sure it would be appreciated by much of the readership. Even Autosport has realised that the past has a future.

[Brynmor]

Must admit not renewed my Sub, rather pick and choose. The road car tests (in particular from a writer who doesn't rate the Escort Cosworth!!!), the 'Hello Magazine' page as I call it and the increasing move towards contemporary motorsport has turned me off....sad really but it's not what it seemed to be about 2 years ago even.

[TennisUK]

But Motor Sport of old always had road tests...indeed didn't Autosport?

I can't recall Autosport road tests, but the Motorsport ones, for me (speaking in the EJ vernacular) were always by far the most tedious parts of the mag. If I cared about that type of thing I'd read Autocar, or any other bland similar mag.

[arttidesco]

Both Motorsport and Autosport used to do road tests when I were a young 'un never really understood why when Autocar and Motor had that area well stitched up though both Motor Sport and Autosport once in a while covered stuff that was not so mainstream somewhere I have a Motor Sport with a report on the Citroen Dyane, and I remember having an Autosport covering a Project 2 Motorsport tuned BMW once.

[Fivestripes]

Just spent 10 days enjoying the current 'Octane'- read virtually every article- doubt if I'll spend more than one with the latest Motor Sport- very, very disappointed with this one- every mag has 'down' months but MS appears to be taking a new direction- could be bye bye time soon.

Certainly won't miss the waste of a page that is L Skipper!!!!

[Thundersports]

Louisa Skipper (is she a shareholder or someone importants bit of crumpet) in the buff would be are far more interesting article than the current one! I agree when I saw the cover my heart sank i'm really really not interested in Road car reports please stop, it would be of far more interest to have more historic racing reports pictures etc in there.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Well, I haven't contributed to this thread in some time, and when I did it was mostly negative.

So, I thought I should stop in and say how much I thought the magazine had improved over where it was a year or two ago.

Premature, perhaps.....

Jack

[David McKinney]

When Autosport and Motorsport tested road-cars in the 1950s it gave them (a) free transport for a couple of weeks and (b) the opportunity for additional advertising revenue

When I ran my strictly-motorsport publication in New Zealand it had a circulation equivalent to 100,000 (converting to UK per capita figures) and just broke even. No matter what tweaks we tried, sales remained about the same, and advertising revenue barely increased. I therefore decided - to ensure its survival - to boost the road-car content beyond a token news page to approximately 50%, leaving the number of sport pages at the same level as before. Within two years circulation had risen to the UK equivalent of 240,000, and advertising revenue by a corresponding amount.

Motorsport has obviously done the same arithmetic. If they keep the same motorsport content it will simply mean the traditional readership (us) will have more pages to skip over. If on the other hand they reduce the sporting content they will lose a high proportion of said traditional readership, but why worry? They'll pick up a lot more from the general motoring market, and a huge increase in advertising revenue.

[john aston]

I too was mightily disappointed to read the road car theme. I can read about this stuff- which does interest me- in Autocar and the Sundays, often written by - you guessed- the ubiqitous Mr Frankel. He races an Alfa so must be a Good Egg, even if my one personal encounter with him did involve him looking at me as though I was something canine and unpleasant on his shoe.( I had wriiten a controversial letter to MS which he had commented upon in his editorial so when I encountered him at Goodwood I thought I would say hello. Shouldn't have bothered). As has been said the magazine is about The Sport and as is demonstrated here every day of the week there is a legion of material to discuss - from Hillclimb championships to Rallycross via Chaparrals and Tasman series. Please Mr Editor think again !