I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
Edited by 2ms, 05 February 2010 - 06:36.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:36
Edited by 2ms, 05 February 2010 - 06:36.
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Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:12
It's reasonable to assume that USF1 was hatched under the assumption that there would be budget cap. That's, in fact, what they were promised. And promised by a guy who'd ruled F1 with iron fist for the better part of 2 decades.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:37
DFV, with all due respect you're starting to sound like someone who's blinded by faith.
You perhaps need to stop taking what people like myself and 'Fisti are saying so literally, and just consider the gist of it.
That is, it appears that USF1 lack funding, experience, and progress that suggests they'll be present in Bahrain.
Now whilst you could counter with "Prove they DON'T have funding", that really shows you're just being combative.
An F1 team being this late with their car to crash tests, and to shakedowns, 99% of the time indicates a lack of funding. History shows this. The 1%? Red Bull (and possibly others), as you've mentioned.
The difference is that Red Bull had a history on their side; they'd demonstrated an ability to fund an F1 team, build a car, and employ the number of people of the calibre and experience required to run an F1 team. For them to then choose to reveal their car late was then understandable, and didn't/doesn't lead to the same kind of rumours. There's a degree of trust that they've delivered before, therefore they'll deliver again.
USF1 is different. They've never demonstrated an ability to adequately fund an F1 team for 1 or more seasons, and to employ the right number of correctly trained and experienced people needed to build two F1 cars and race them.
So them being late with crash tests and shakedowns doesn't come across so well. It shows a lack of funding. A lack of preparation. A lack of progress.
History has shown that in every other single situation where a team has been this late, shown this lack of funding, shown this lack of progress, they've not lasted longer than a season. Even at their worst, Minardi had a fully functioning F1 factory that had a history of turning out F1 cars, to spec, manned by a staff of experienced F1 engineers. USF1 don't have that same pedigree, so there's nothing to suggest that they will do as well.
It doesn't mean we WANT them to fail, and it doesn't mean they WILL. It just means every single indicator of progress, success, stability and longevity appears to a rational person to show that they're in deep ****.
The same is true of Campos to be fair. I've seen very little of them, and I think they're in the same boat. Lotus I've seen more of, so they look far, far more likely to be in Bahrain, and VR have shown the same amount of progress as established teams.
So don't be so literal when reading our posts, and don't assume we're hating on USF1. It's not our fault that everything suggests they're a slim chance to make race1, and therefore a slim chance to make the whole season.
Doesn't mean it's over.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:39
It's reasonable to assume that USF1 was hatched under the assumption that there would be budget cap. That's, in fact, what they were promised. And promised by a guy who'd ruled F1 with iron fist for the better part of 2 decades.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:48
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
Edited by johnmhinds, 05 February 2010 - 08:49.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:56
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:48
He's the reigning SuperLeague Formula champion. SuperLeague cars are V-12 with around 750HP. So they're more powerful than a GP2 car.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:58
You mean Pacific; they were also new in 1994. And it was Simtek, not Symtek!
But after those two teams Forti still entered F1.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 10:33
Not entirely surprising as the UK has far more resources readily available to them.
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Posted 05 February 2010 - 10:45
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:02
Good question.
I never thought that the capping was going to work. Many do questioned how it can be achieved as FOTA launched such a strong move.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 15:03
Posted 05 February 2010 - 15:08
The cap was really to try and contain the technology race. By having a cap it makes it easier for the small teams to keep pace with the bigger ones as they can't be outspent. But in terms of starting a new team it's a complete red herring.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 17:15
Valles is not a bad driver and it will be interesting to see how he will perform compared to Lopez but his results in GP2 were not great and I don't rate him as highly as several other GP2 drivers; he was usually in the midfield. And Supercars has a system of completely reverse grid races in race 2. Valles was never dominant in Superleague either; he was the most consistent driver in Superleague but not as fast as Bourdais after he joined the series when he lost his Toro Rosso job.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 17:20
And much slower.
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the GP2 weekend of 2008: 1:23.550 by Kamui Kobayashi
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1:27.284 by Craig Dolby
Fastest race lap at Monza in the GP2 weekend of 2009: 1:32.553 by Luca Filippi
Fastest race lap at Monza in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1.36.466 by Antonio Pizzonia
Edited by ezequiel, 05 February 2010 - 17:35.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 18:42
Indeed, Vallés was good, very consistent (helped by a car which didn't brake down very often, something that was no frequent for most drivers last year) but, as Davide Rigon in 2008, he took the title based in consistency rather thatn speed.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 18:44
Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:01
Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:05
Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:23
Here's the Racecar Engineering mag, USF1 article on page 10.. you can only zoom-in on 3 pages though. Have fun.
http://www.zinio.com...1...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
Posted 05 February 2010 - 19:31
Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.Why the hell dont the new teams sort their finances out before they enter F1. dont they know the costs ? surely theyre not a secret !
I am astounded that we are still speculating who will be on the grid , what a farce.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 20:39
And a little something called 'time'.Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 21:29
Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.
Posted 05 February 2010 - 21:41
Here's the Racecar Engineering mag, USF1 article on page 10.. you can only zoom-in on 3 pages though. Have fun.
http://www.zinio.com...1...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
Posted 05 February 2010 - 22:46
Posted 05 February 2010 - 23:17
Posted 06 February 2010 - 00:26
Interesting exhaust packaging, looks like they almost forgot a piece.. You can also make out the internals in the gearbox as well. I never did realize that you are sitting so close to the ground, just like a racing kart. But honestly I always thought there would be more protection there due to the speeds, when compared to karts (well I guess some karts will top 150+).http://wheelnutsjour...7769c2f5970c-pi
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
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Posted 06 February 2010 - 00:30
They aren't seriously using bearings instead of flexures for the front suspension though? What do they think it is Champcar? Weren't primitive 90s F1 car the last to have bearings to attach the front suspension, and only for the lower front wishbones at that.http://wheelnutsjour...7769c2f5970c-pi
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
Edited by V8 Fireworks, 06 February 2010 - 00:34.
Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:11
They aren't seriously using bearings instead of flexures for the front suspension though? What do they think it is Champcar? Weren't primitive 90s F1 car the last to have bearings to attach the front suspension, and only for the lower front wishbones at that.
It MUST just be for the purposes of the drawings, or is that what a flexure looks like, armchair 100% non-expert here.;)
Surely that is a very early version. I wonder why they want to show people their wing profiles, shouldn't that be propriatory?
Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:26
Did they do this just to be creative the first year while they work on the 2011 bits, or is this going to be the way to go for all the fuel on board? Honestly if they can make an F1 car drive like a Champcar think of the driver pool they can tap. Michael Andretti might have been able to drive the McLaren... lolThey are talking about having 'more suspension travel' than usual or something... sounded like a potential epic FAIL in the making to me.
The aero at F1 level is very sensitive, and IMO they could get bitten quite hard trying to be too clever with those things..
It'll be interesting to watch, if they make it (with that car, lol)..
Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:04
Posted 06 February 2010 - 15:34
Posted 06 February 2010 - 15:42
Let me start by saying that I'm a USF1 supporter. As an American I long to see a greater presence in F1 for the USA, and also hope to see F1 return here soon (thankfully I'm not far from Montreal). I also think that USF1 will make it to the grid in Bahrain and finish the season. What bothers me, however, is the drivers they have signed and/or are considering for this season. With guys like Anthony Davidson and Nick Heidfeld sitting idle, I think it's crazy to sign second-rate drivers from the junior formulas instead of proven drivers that know how to develop an F1 car. And they're not even American (well, in the USA sense at least). The guys they are looking at wouldn't even be a strong IRL driver lineup, never mind a competitive F1 lineup. I know it's all about money, but to me that makes it all the more important to get a solid driver in there to make sure you are going the right direction with the car. Mark my words, the new team that finishes last will not make it to the grid next year. With the drivers USF1 will race with, I'm afraid they will be the team that suffers this fate. I hope I'm wrong.
Posted 06 February 2010 - 22:36
Indeed, Vallés was good, very consistent (helped by a car which didn't brake down very often, something that was no frequent for most drivers last year) but, as Davide Rigon in 2008, he took the title based in consistency rather thatn speed. He wasn't faster than Max Wissel, Antonio Pizzonia or Tristan Gommendy, and surely not faster that Bourdais and Guerrieri who, in that order, were the most impressive drivers in SLF last season, despite not racing the whole championship and, in Guerrieri's case, swithcing thru three different football teams (2 racing teams) in 5 rounds, which is never good for a driver, specially in a teams championship with no proper drivers championship like this. Summarizing, he's a good consistent driver, who tested for Spyker in the past and won't be a shame on a F1 car.
Posted 06 February 2010 - 22:44
True but a brand new team should definitely establish a financial foundation first before going after experienced technical minded drivers who they can afford.Let me start by saying that I'm a USF1 supporter. As an American I long to see a greater presence in F1 for the USA, and also hope to see F1 return here soon (thankfully I'm not far from Montreal). I also think that USF1 will make it to the grid in Bahrain and finish the season. What bothers me, however, is the drivers they have signed and/or are considering for this season. With guys like Anthony Davidson and Nick Heidfeld sitting idle, I think it's crazy to sign second-rate drivers from the junior formulas instead of proven drivers that know how to develop an F1 car. And they're not even American (well, in the USA sense at least). The guys they are looking at wouldn't even be a strong IRL driver lineup, never mind a competitive F1 lineup. I know it's all about money, but to me that makes it all the more important to get a solid driver in there to make sure you are going the right direction with the car. Mark my words, the new team that finishes last will not make it to the grid next year. With the drivers USF1 will race with, I'm afraid they will be the team that suffers this fate. I hope I'm wrong.
Posted 06 February 2010 - 23:36
True but a brand new team should definitely establish a financial foundation first before going after experienced technical minded drivers who they can afford.
No point in hiring Heidfeld or Davidson who might put the USF1 car on the right track only to go bankrupt by 2011.
Posted 06 February 2010 - 23:59
I seriously wonder whether they were chosen to dilute the British effect. Remember that only 33% of the new teams were British. Imagine if Prodrive and Lola were chosen instead; 3 British teams to go alongside an Anglocentric set (even Red Bull and Renault are British teams in disguise). Having said that, Euskadi surely, as a team that has built its own cars, might have been worth a look. But what the hey.No offence to Campos and USF1 but what the hell were the FIA thinking with their selection process?
Posted 07 February 2010 - 10:47
Posted 07 February 2010 - 10:53
So according to the racecar engineering mag, The USF1 car is ready and built NOW.
WhEN ARE THEY LAUNCHING?
Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:40
Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:45
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorspor...o...228&page=12
Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:52
Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:56
I was almost believing what you were saying until I read this part. ^^^I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post!
Posted 07 February 2010 - 13:05
Edited by V8 Fireworks, 07 February 2010 - 13:07.
Posted 07 February 2010 - 13:12
USF1 are done
Posted 07 February 2010 - 13:25
Why is this surprising?
Edited by Slowinfastout, 07 February 2010 - 13:27.
Posted 07 February 2010 - 13:43
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
...
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorspor...o...228&page=12
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Posted 07 February 2010 - 14:01
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorspor...o...228&page=12