477 replies to this topic

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

I hope he can, on tarmac I mean.

[FlatOverCrest]

I hope he can, on tarmac I mean.

Certainly on Tarmac he much less to learn....the lines are easier, just as Sarrazin proved. However....they are fast those events and you do get punished very hard for making a small mistake, simply due to the high speeds. I think he will be fine on Tarmac.

[Rob]

Certainly on Tarmac he much less to learn....the lines are easier, just as Sarrazin proved. However....they are fast those events and you do get punished very hard for making a small mistake, simply due to the high speeds. I think he will be fine on Tarmac.

Being a Finn, it's likely he'll have had plenty of experience driving a road car in the snow. Do you think this will help him when it comes to driving competitively on snow?

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

Speeds are totally different, but I think it helps little.

[grunge]

Certainly on Tarmac he much less to learn....the lines are easier, just as Sarrazin proved. However....they are fast those events and you do get punished very hard for making a small mistake, simply due to the high speeds. I think he will be fine on Tarmac.

thanx a bunch for the insight uve provided on this thread.

how long do u think the learning curve is for someone racing open tops all his life and then switching to rally cars..i know its subjective but on a general scale...u too i guess mustve spent a great part of yer youth driving open tops before a switch to rallying(most people make that switch because it becomes impossible to carry OT's to the next level without staunch economic support).

Edited by grunge, 10 December 2009 - 15:09.

[WebBerK]

Being a Finn, it's likely he'll have had plenty of experience driving a road car in the snow. Do you think this will help him when it comes to driving competitively on snow?

Driving in the Nordic rallies is easy.

The snow forms a high bank that avoids the car going off track... even a drunk guy can drive in these conditions.

[Anssi]

Yes, there is not much need for driving skill if you live in Finland. Just speed up and let the car hit the sides of the road - that's the normal way to do it here.

Some Brits who come here and rent a car from the airport though like to take the wrong turn in a junction and go against traffic and end up colliding head-on with another car... don't do that you silly Brits - you are supposed to go in reverse when taking a turn to go against traffic! That's how it will look like you are not to blame for the accident but it's the one who rear-ended your car.

Edited by Anssi, 10 December 2009 - 17:10.

[Sammyosammy]

Yes, there is not much need for driving skill if you live in Finland. Just speed up and let the car hit the sides of the road - that's the normal way to do it here.

Yeah, thank God only chief in every village here actually owns a car. Imagine the amount of accidents if there was plenty of cars in our country..

[Kriss]

10/12/09

Kimi's WRC switch to be permanent?

Kimi Raikkonen will stay on as a World Rally Championship driver beyond the end of his 2010 programme with Citroen as long as his results improve during the year.

That is the claim of Kimi's co-driver Kaj Lindstrom, who told wrc.com that he felt a successful season in the WRC could be enough to make Raikkonen forget about returning to F1.

At the moment, Raikkonen, 30, has committed only to a 12-round WRC campaign with Citroen Sport in 2010. On his website, the 2007 world champion states he hasn't ruled out a Formula One return in the future - though only if it's with a team with title winning potential.

But asked by wrc.com if he felt Raikkonen would remain in the World Rally Championship beyond the 2010 season, Lindstrom said: "Yes. I believe he will, if he can get some good results."

"He's seen F1, and now he's really looking forward to rallying and if we can see that he can improve and the results are coming, then I think he will be more interested in continuing with rally, rather than returning to F1."

Lindstrom's comments come in the same week that Citroen Racing boss Oliver Quesnel suggested Raikkonen could be destined for his factory team in the future.

Quesnel told French Auto Hebdo magazine he is prepared for the Finn to make an impact during his debut season and extend his stay in the series. “We are not asking for the impossible for a first season, but it is clear that if he progresses and shows the right level, then he could slot into the first team [in 2011]” he reportedly said.

http://www.wrc.com/j...k=101&a...nent?

[Sexton]

Driving in the Nordic rallies is easy.

The snow forms a high bank that avoids the car going off track... even a drunk guy can drive in these conditions.

Yeaaaah right... It's sometimes pretty god damn hard to keep a car on the road when you go to work in the morning and the roads are icy. Talk about going rallying 160km/h in the middle of the woods...

[sleenster]

http://www.wrc.com/j...k=101&a...nent?

Seriously, everyone should just chill out and let Kimi drive and enjoy himself. The WRC season hasn't even started yet and people are already setting high expectations and creating unnecessary pressures.

[WebBerK]

Yeaaaah right... It's sometimes pretty god damn hard to keep a car on the road when you go to work in the morning and the roads are icy. Talk about going rallying 160km/h in the middle of the woods...

I was just kidding.

Of course its hard.
In Monte Carlo the thin layer of ice is not detected until you are on it.

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

That's called Black Ice.

[FlatOverCrest]

thanx a bunch for the insight uve provided on this thread.
how long do u think the learning curve is for someone racing open tops all his life and then switching to rally cars..i know its subjective but on a general scale...u too i guess mustve spent a great part of yer youth driving open tops before a switch to rallying(most people make that switch because it becomes impossible to carry OT's to the next level without staunch economic support).

More than welcome!

In Rallying how quickly you learn actually has a great deal to do with your co-driver. A great many youngsters make the mistake of starting their Rallying career with someone their own age and it is great fun and weekends become superb entertainment and you make a future best fiend for life....

When you first start rallying the sheer volume of information you have to absorb is incredible and every driver is different. Some have very mathmatical brains... and some are more creative language guys, this will often dictate whether they use 'descriptve' or 'number' based notes. Richards Burns (RIP big fella) actually had some of the most complex notes I have seen, the sheer volume of detail he could produce was incredible. He had so much detail that Robert Reid could barely keep up at times getting the information out in time, especially through the complex sections, he also had his notes called out wayyyyyy ahead..and he could process the data with no problem.

Other drivers especially newer rally drivers need the information a lot closer to the corner, A: Because you literally have mental overload beyond about 12-15 miles as a young driver...the brain starts to miss things and you can find yourself saying "repeat"...more and more to your co-driver as the brain gets tired. B: You simply are not yet going fast enough and truly driving to the exact word of your co-driver, that is simply something that takes years to perfect and a trust level to build up between the driver and co-driver to such an extent that if he tells you "Flat Left Over Crest" you are peddle to the floor, in top gear, positioning the car on the right side of the road aiming slightly left and launching that car in that direction, because you have blind faith in your co-driver that he has got the notes right. So initially you are driving a lot "on sight" and as you get more experienced you actually start to realise that without a great co-driver you will never truly be on the pace. Of course this all goes completely wrong when your co-driver turns two pages by mistake and reads as normal 'thinking' he is on the right page!!! That never ends well! The strength of the relationship can often be tested at this point as the air often turns blue! With MANY bad words coming from the driver! But he is still my co-driver!

However, if someone is truly serious about advancing in the sport at a young age..."Age" and experience is everything in a co-driver. In reality....a co-driver is basically the drivers Nanny!! They are there to tell the driver where to be and when to be there, for signing on, scrutineering, time controls etc.... In service..the co-driver runs the show, telling the mechanics how much time they have before the car is due out to the "out" control of the service park. So from an organisational perspective, an older experienced head is 'essential' if you want to minimise the chance of getting a time control penalty through simple bad management of time, a mistake a young co-driver can often make.

In the car, the story is no different. In my first few events in my early 20's in 1996, I had an experienced head sitting next to me, who very much kept me on a tight leash in the car and made sure I knew about it, when I did something stupid and didnt listen properly. Equally the Co-driver is the one to keep you 'calm' when things go wrong...as they do. A calm co-driver is like a fire extinguisher to flames...they are able to deal with situations...get the driver calm again and continue if possible.
This is the exact reason Derek Ringer was put with Colin McRae, as a calming influence in his early years.

Kimi has truly one of the best in the business sitting next to him. Kaj is not only one of the nicest fellas you will ever meet, he is simply a world class co-driver and "HE" more than anything or anyone else, will be the most important factor to Kimi picking things up quickly and reigning him in a bit if he feels he is getting a little ahead of himself. For example...Kimi's danger time is actually going to be about event number 3.... He will be starting to get to grips with the C4 WRC car and so he will start to push a little faster possibly sooner than he may be ready for. THIS is when Kaj with be giving him reminders inbetween stages on road sectons to stay clam and controlled, to talk to him about how he (Kimi) felt the car handled...how did he feel the notes went, etc etc....all of this is not only getting data that Kaj can then give the mechanics...but it also gets the drivers heart rate back down and calm and taking his mind off the frantic pace of the stage.

If there were any mistakes, it is during the road sections, that he can discuss those moments with the driver, while its fresh in his head for example:
"Remember we had that moment coming out of that 'K' right?? If you remember the notes were 'Caution slippy, Easy Left, into Negative K Right Tightens, caution slippy'....I dont know if you remember hearing the caution slippy? or 'negative' for the camber of the corner???"
That type of thing...the co-driver wants and needs to understand WHAT exactly the driver heard or more importantly DIDNT hear to cause them to have a moment where they nearly went off. From this information the experienced co-driver may understand that the driver heard the direction and the corner description perfectly well... but he may have missed the camber call or the slippy call.... So the co-driver then may take an opportunity at the service or on route to the next stage, just to 'HIGHLIGHT' the slippy or surface calls for the next couple of stages. The net result is the very next stage just goes really well and the driver sits there all smug with a big grin on his face saying "Ha...hey look at me...I am the greatest" when in fact the co-driver simply emphasised certain notes clearer and louder or repeated them, to ensure his driver has head them...and suddenly there were no mistakes! In a Rally car...its not in fact the driver that is King....but the co-driver that is GOD!!

So a co-driver can be extremely key to how fast a driver adjusts and learns, but Kimi has the skillsets to pick things up very fast, I have no doubt of that.

As to my switch...heheheh I actually went for a career in single seaters in 1992 and was due to race a guy called Ralph Firman Junior (later ex-F1 Jordan driver) in Formula Vauxhall Juniors, but my family could not raise the budget of 70,000 pounds for me to race and despite testing faster than Ralph... it wasnt to be... so I went to University and then I had my moment of 'enlightenment' in a North Yorkshire Forest that snowy morning in 1993! Funnily enough, I am now looking to go the other way now and try to get back into racing! At the end of the day, we are ALL petrolheads!

[Mungo Fangio of the Year]

nice read, thank you

[sleenster]

http://www.wrc.com/j...e...101&id=5583

This is actually an old interview (27/7/09) with Kaj Lindström just before the Finland Rally but still an interesting read nonetheless.


EXCLUSIVE: Kaj Lindstrom Q&A

On Thursday this week, four days after finishing second at the Hungarian Grand Prix, Ferrari Formula 1 driver Kimi Raikkonen will strap into his Abarth Grande Punto S2000 ready to make his World Rally Championship debut.

Alongside Kimi on his home round of the WRC will be experienced co-driver Kaj Lindstrom - the man who used to partner multiple rally champion Tommi Makinen. Together, Raikkonen and Lindstrom have tackled three rallies so far in the Abarth but this week's rally marks the pair's debut on gravel.

This weekend, in between making final preparations for the rally, Lindstrom spoke to wrc.com about the challenge ahead.

How much testing have you and Kimi done for Rally Finland?
"We've done two different tests - both in the same Abarth car we'll use this week. The first one was two weeks ago, when we did about 130kms on roads close to Jyvaskyla. We had another test on Monday and Tuesday last week on roads nearer to Jamsa, and on that one we did roughly 200km."

Finland will be Kimi's first proper gravel rally, right?
"Yes, and the first test was his first time ever on gravel with the rally car. That was why we needed to have two separate tests; the first was just so he could get used to driving on gravel and get used to the tyres. He needed to get some mileage in first before he could think about altering the car set-up on the second test."

You've done two snow and one asphalt rally together so far, what was Kimi's reaction after driving his first proper gravel stage?
"Well, they call him Iceman and he certainly kept his cool. There was no big reaction as such. Perhaps the biggest surprise was how easy he seemed to find it. For the first run we were on the same test road we had used to prepare for the winter rally. Even though the conditions were very different at least it was familiar to him and he could slowly build the speed. But it didn't take too long for him to get used to the gravel, so I don't know if it helped him or not - he was pretty fast right from the start."

What car set-up changes did he made?
"With a Super 2000 car there are only really two things you can alter; differentials and suspension. Kimi needed to work on both areas to make the car quicker and make the handling more predictable. It's important to know when you lose grip exactly what the car is going to do - and that was the main thing to sort. We are quite pleased with what we've got now. After the car was sorted it was sent back [to Tommi Makinen Racing] to be stripped and rebuilt before the rally."

Will you test it again before Rally Finland starts?
"We'll check it on Monday - just to do 20 kilometres or so to check everything works okay. That will be our shakedown because as a 'non priority' crew we can't take part in Thursday's official shakedown."

You've co-driven for lots of world class rally drivers; how does Kimi's driving compare?
"His car handling and driving skills, like the lines he takes and so on, are at a very high level - outstanding, actually. On the test I was quite surprised by how quickly he got used to the gravel and got the car to perform. It's a very comfortable feeling for me to be in the car with him in Finland - even though it's a high speed rally. You can see that he controls the car and not the other way around."

Has Kimi had any specific driving tuition for Rally Finland?
"Tommi [Makinen] went in the car with him at our pre-event test but only in the passenger seat. I forced him in for a ride! Tommi did drive Kimi when he was preparing for the winter rallies, but not for this one."

What do you think Kimi will find most difficult about Rally Finland?
The most difficult thing will be making correct pace notes because Kimi's going to be competing against people who are a lot more experineced. Some will have done five years rallying before they even attempted pace notes - and they'll probably have been learning notes for few more years before they tackle Rally Finland. This week Kimi will go there on only his forth rally ever. During the recce he'll drive 13 different stages in two days and making accurate pace notes will be the most demanding job to do. It's the most crucial part of this rally too - if you get the pace notes right then the rest should be fine."

What's your objective next week? Or is this all about fun for Kimi?
"It’s all about fun. We haven't talked about any result that we want to have and I think that's the best way to do it. If we can do three good days without mistakes, and hopefully without punctures, then we will get some result for sure, but with the amount of experience he has there's no point in setting any targets. We'll just see. We'll go there with the aim of having fun and making life difficult for the other drivers!"

Sebastien Loeb has expressed an interest in F1 - Perhaps if it goes well for Kimi he and Seb could swap keys for a while?
"Well... I know that Sebastien is very, very talented and very good in rallying but I would say it is easier to step into Formula 1 from the WRC world than to go the other way around. In F1 you do the races and the circuits and you can go and practise the same corners over and over - that's not like rally where you drive the stages just twice in the recce at 80kph, and then you have to do the same thing at full speed. In my view that's more difficult. You only have to look at drivers like Mika Salo or Mika Hakkinen or even Martin Brundle who did the RAC one year to see that."

So what is the appeal of rallying for Kimi?
"The challenge is one thing. The WRC is not easy and it's totally different to what he does for a living. He wants to see if he can do rallying at the proper level and of course doing Rally Finland has always been a dream for him. I'm just pleased that he's so into it - and that he's happy to have me along too."

Edited by sleenster, 11 December 2009 - 01:19.

[Impulse^]

More than welcome!

In Rallying... *snip*

Great read! Thank you!

[SpaMaster]

Nice read, FlatOverCrest.. It's great to read your posts in this thread.

[Kriss]

11/12/09

Q&A with Kaj Lindstrom

Having spent the 2002 and 2003 seasons co-driving for multiple champion Tommi Makinen at the Subaru World Rally Team, Kaj Lindstrom knows what it’s like to work in the spotlight. Next year the Finn returns to a full-time WRC drive alongside another superstar - Kimi Raikkonen.

Since 2003, Lindstrom has co-driven for a number of privateer drivers in the WRC, but none as high profile as Raikkonen, who he first partnered on the F1 star's rally debut - the 2009 Finnish championship Arctic Rally.

Since then Lindstrom, 41, has co-driven for Raikkonen on two other non-championship events - Finland's Rally of Mikkeli and the asphalt Rally della Marca in Italy - as well as the WRC Rally Finland.

As he prepares for his return to the WRC at the top level, Lindstrom talked to wrc.com about the challenge ahead.

You last drove a full WRC season in 2003, how does it feel to be coming back at this level?
"It's good to be back, and especially with this kind of driver, when you can see there is potential there. I've driven with many different types of competitor, from 'gentleman' drivers to those wanting to prove their potential. Kimi definitely has the potential to be fast and, as a co-driver, that makes it more interesting to do your work. I'm really looking forward to it now."

You and Kimi are yet to drive the Citroen C4 WRC, when will you get the chance?
"Well, we are planning to test before the Arctic Rally in January, but that hasn't yet been agreed. We are both going to see Citroen Sport in Paris at the beginning of January to do the seat fitting and so on. At that meeting we expect to agree the test dates."

All your rallies together so far have been in a Super 2000 Abarth. How difficult do you think it will be for Kimi to adapt to a World Rally Car?
"It will be different for sure, but whether Kimi will find it difficult I don't know. He's used to a driving a Formula One car which, I would say, is a step higher than any other car. He's used to 700bhp through the rear wheels, so if he can cope with that then dealing with half the power - unfortunately - though four wheels should be okay. Yes, there is a gap between a Group N or Super 2000 car and a World Rally Car, but I don't think it’s a step which will be difficult for him to take."

You've driven with Kimi on snow, tarmac and asphalt. Which of the rallies in 2010 do you think will be toughest for him to adapt to?
"I think they will all be difficult, there no point in saying otherwise, because they will all be new to him. Maybe the hardest will be the rough rallies like Turkey, where he will have to find the limit of the car. He needs to discover just how strong they are, and what they are capable of surviving. There's a limit for Super 2000 and Group N cars beyond which you'll break the car. But it’s a different story with World Rally Cars. Obviously you can break them as well - but not that easily."

And which do you think he'll do best on?
"It's hard to say, but obviously tarmac is the surface that he's most familiar with. I'm really looking forward to sitting with him on those events."

http://www.wrc.com/j...h Kaj Lindstrom

[CoolFiltered]

Nice interview sleenster, cheers for the link, I think the Kimster is going to do okay, the closer we get to the Arctic rally the more i'm looking forward to it

[Fortymark]

FlatOverCrest

[LucaP]

This year Kimi will take one hell of a beating

imo

[glorius&victorius]

This year Kimi will take one hell of a beating

imo

which makes him in my opinion quite courageous, he will make or break his racing career with this.
same for someone like montoya

hats off to these adventurers / risk takers

[intelligentsia]

Scott Garrett, a director at London-based sponsorship consultancy Synergy, says luring a champion from Formula One could help World Rally discover a winning formula of its own.

"The current drivers don't have the same media equity as Raikkonen, but they do have the same skill and what he can do is attract attention to a sport that otherwise wouldn't get it," he says. "If he does that, those other drivers will benefit—and I think that's what will happen, especially if he starts winning."

http://online.wsj.co...97896588.html?m od=googlenews_wsj&am p;utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[CoolFiltered]

I think I read somewhere that in the days following confirmation of Kimi's participation in WRC, the WRC facebook group went from something like 25,000 members to over 80,000.

I think its a given that his participation will attract more fans to the sport and bring greater exposure for it.

[One]

I found this on the net. He need to start well tho.


http://www.fooooo.co...?id=PzoMd8OnDR0


.

[Spunout]

That wasn´t proper rally stage, though.

I would fully agree with FlatOverCrest´s excellent post, and repeat my opinion that the biggest challenge isn´t WRC car or even gravel/snow surface. It´s different nature of rallying; from circuits one learns by heart to long runs where one must rely on co-driver, ability to "read the road" as we say here in Finland, etc.

There is little question on short track F1 driver would have easier time adapting to WRC car than the other way around. But once you move to the forest, it´s new game alltogether.

[David M. Kane]

Good luck Kimi.