430 replies to this topic

[Aloisioitaly]

Prost better than MS?

I don't know i f Prost was better than Schumi, different ages, different cars.
But i know for sure Prost was better than Senna; he proved it.

[Aloisioitaly]

1989 was another proof that AS was head and shoulders above one of the best drivers ever, IF you really watched the races. It was a massacre.

Oh yeah, Prost 15 starts 81 (76) points; Senna 16 starts 60 point.
You are utterly right: a real massacre!

[as65p]

Nope, I'm thinking about the guy who openly boasted before a title deciding race that he was going to smash his title rival off the track at the first corner. Let me give you a clue; his name rhymed with Bareton Menna.;)

Well, a year before Crawling Toast also proclaimed before the race that he wouldn't let Bareton through under any circumstances...

[Group B]

Well, a year before Crawling Toast also proclaimed before the race that he wouldn't let Bareton through under any circumstances...

And? My point was that Senna is more known as a cheat than Piquet; the fact that other drivers cheated too is an aside in this context. I'm not bashing Senna for it either, just trying to make Mardru exit his fantasy land and see reality.

[fetzo]

Some years ago, Prost said, that Schumi is / was the better driver, comparing to himself. He talked about, moving the car on the limit or above that, to have the feeling for it and so on.

It doesn´t play an important role, that Schumi never beat a great driver in the same team and it doesn´t play an important role, that he got nervous sometimes, when he was under pressure. That´s not unhuman. He was an important part of the jigsaw, when Ferrari was rebuilded. Don´t forget that? Did you thing, that was easy? No, it wasn´t.

Schumi is one of the greatest drivers in the history of Formula One. There´s no reason, if we talk about driving skills, why we should put him a league lower, comparing to drivers like Fangio, Clark or Senna. Yes, he isn´t the greatest sportsman, but that´s indifferent.

Haters should accept that ;)

Edited by fetzo, 05 January 2010 - 13:56.

[Fiorentina 1]

Unless you put everyone in the same car on the same track at the same time, and do it 10 times, you will never get a 100% full proof way of determining who is the best. And, obviously we can't do that. Also, car racing is not like running; there are many variables involved in race wins, like the team and car! If Schumacher wasn't in the best car would he still be listed second? If Bellof would have survived, would he be listed higher or possibly lower then 35th? Same with Tom Pryce? If Williams would have taken the option on Alesi liked promised and signed him, would Alesi have won a few championship and be listed in the top 10 instead?

For me as things stand, I believe Jim Clark is the best ever because of the various cars & classes he won in. He won in F1, sports cars, touring, Indy & even Nascar. Ya, he too had the best equipment, but he beat quite a few highly rated teammates at Lotus. I asked Phil Hill once who was the best driver he raced against, and he said Jim Clark was easily 1 to 2 seconds faster then anyone on the grid.

[amicidellecorse]

Have you seen issue n.51/52 about Italian's magazine Autosprint and the article about "The 100s most important drivers"?
What do you think about it?

[Galko877]

What are the criterias of being an important driver?

[postajegenye]

What are the criterias of being an important driver?

Yeah, that's a good question. This is even more subjective than the "greatest" driver polls.

[Buttoneer]

Link please.

[Szoelloe]

i don't think there were 100 important drivers since the '50s

[ensign14]

If Henry Ford is not number 1, the list is worthless.

[Sausage]

You mean if Bernie is not number 1, the list is worthless.

[Gilles4Ever]

Seems the top 100 are:

1. SENNA
2. SCHUMACHER M.
3. FANGIO
4. CLARK
5. PROST
6. STEWART
7. MOSS
8. LAUDA
9. ASCARI
10. VILLENEUVE G.

11. BRABHAM
12. FITTIPALDI
12. ANDRETTI
14. MANSELL
15. ALONSO
16. HILL G.
17. HAKKINEN
18. HAMILTON
19. PETERSON
20. RINDT

21. SURTEES
22. PIQUET N.
23. RAIKKONEN
24. LOEB
25. SCHECKTER
26. HULME
27. HUNT
28. JONES
29. VTTEL
30. HAWTHORN

31. GURNEY
32. REUTEMANN
33. ICKX
34. GONZALEZ
35. BELLOF
36. VILLENEUVE J.
37. HILL
38. ROSBERG K.
39. FARINA
40. BUTTON

41. REGAZZONI
42. RODRIGUEZ
43. COLLINS
44. BROOKS
45. HILL P.
46. LAFFITE
47. PATRESE
48. CEVERT
49. ROHRL
50. NANNINI

51. DEPALLIER
52. REVSON
53. ALBORETO
54. DE ANGELIS
55. TARUFFI
56. WATSON
57. MUSSO
58. PACE
59. VILLORESI
60. SIFFERT

61. BEHRA
62. MONTOYA
63. MASSA
64. MCLAREN
65. AMON
66. RODRIGUEZ R.
67. COULTHARD
68. TRULLI
69. NILSSON
70. CASTELLOTTI

71. BERGER
72. BARRICHELLO
73. BOUTSEN
74. IRVINE
75. MUNARI
76. ARNOUX
77. HERBERT
78. BRUNDLE
79. GAVIN
80. KUBICA

81. MCRAE
82. SAINZ
83. REDMAN
84. PASCAROLO
85. TOIVNEN
86. BANINI
87. BAGHETTI
88. BALDI
89. WOLLEK
90. EVANS

91. BRISE
92. HERMANN
93. ELFORS
94. PIRRO
95. TARQUINI
96. ZANARDI
97. KRISTENSEN
98. WALDEGAARD
99. BIASION
100. RUSSO.

http://www.eracemoto...pre-t-5856.html
Magazine cover: http://www.auto.it/a...p della storia

[Rob]

Yet again Damon Hill gets a lowly position. Behind Stefan Bellof and Froilan Gonzalez of all people...

[Buttoneer]

A little confused about the criteria. I would have put McCrae waaaaay higher than 81st, for example and who is the top US Series driver? Zanardi near the bottom below Kubica? He's been an inspiration to many within and outside of motorsport because of what he has done. The list is so F1 heavy at the top they might as well have not bothered with other series at all.

Once again, Priaulx overlooked completely too.

[potmotr]

Pirro and Tarquini above Heidfeld!

I've a funny feeling the Italian drivers are a bit higher than perhaps they'd be in a proper international poll.

[Victor_RO]

It is a F1-top-heavy list, but the lower end shows some pleasantly surprising aditions. Oliver Gavin, Bob Wollek, Gabriele Tarquini for example. Although this means that other people in the vicinity of their rating should be higher, people like Zanardi, Tom Kristensen, Henri Pescarolo, Brian Redman, maybe even Henri Toivonen.

[Buttoneer]

I've a funny feeling the Italian drivers are a bit higher than perhaps they'd be in a proper international poll.

No different in that regard to the Autosport ones.

[potmotr]

No different in that regard to the Autosport ones.

The Italian drivers didn't do all that well in the Autosport poll.

De Cesaris was nowhere to be found.

[bladesblood]

Only in your dreams, pal.

Who in your dreams is/was better than Senna then pal ?

[Buttoneer]

The Italian drivers didn't do all that well in the Autosport poll.

Exactly. The British drivers did much better though.

[Gagá Bueno]

Who in your dreams is/was better than Senna then pal ?

Clark...Schumacher...Fangio(?)...Prost (people here tend to ignore his whole career and talk only about 88-93...) and I'm not sleeping yet...

[noikeee]

The best 23 F1 drivers ever are all better than the best rally driver ever? I'm not sure how they worked that out.

[MARDRU]

Clark...Schumacher...Fangio(?)...Prost (people here tend to ignore his whole career and talk only about 88-93...) and I'm not sleeping yet...

While i do not agree on Clark and Fangio beeing better than Senna, saying Schumacher was in the same league is completelly insane. It is the same absurd to consider let s say Irvine a better driver than Michael.
For those who don t speak portugueese, Gagá means senile.

Like it or not, as i said before, AS was the best by far and that s why the vast majority of racing drivers and people involved in racing say so. I should say that except for MS die hard fans, Nelson s widows and a few Prost s fans, no one has doubts about it. Senna impressed everyone driving karts, FFord, F3. His first drive ever in a F1 car was not a good or a just a very drive. It was clear since day one that he he was different. In his fifth race ever Senna showed he was in a different league. In his first race driving a decent car, a wet track, he lapped everyone. Prost was a genius, still Senna was way way better.

If you ever had the chance to race against him AND other great drivers, i am sure you would understand that in a much easier way.

Edited by MARDRU, 09 January 2010 - 20:57.

[Buttoneer]

While i do not agree on Clark and Fangio beeing better than Senna,

The Autosprint article is talking about 'most important' and not 'better'.

[MARDRU]

The Autosprint article is talking about 'most important' and not 'better'.

So you do think that God himself beeing a F1 driver for so many years wasn t the most important thing that ever happened in motorsport?

Edited by MARDRU, 09 January 2010 - 21:02.

[ensign14]

The Autosprint article is talking about 'most important' and not 'better'.

It says "migliori", doesn't that mean "better" rather than "most important"? Latin melior?

[Buttoneer]

It says "migliori", doesn't that mean "better" rather than "most important"? Latin melior?

No idea, I was assuming the originator of the discussion did the translation properly.

[ensign14]

The list does not seem to reflect "most important" drivers, as even if you restrict it to post-war Chapman and Ecclestone would surely be at the top. And there's not been time for any of the current drivers to be relevant. Other than Hamilton for breaking the race "barrier".

[Buttoneer]

The list does not seem to reflect "most important" drivers

I think most of the debate will prove that it also does not reflect 'the best' drivers either...

[Gagá Bueno]

Definitely, "migilori" means "best" and Autosprint's pool, including F1, Rally, Sport car and US series drivers goes beyond of comparing apples and oranges, to me it seems more like cherries and potatoes...

And for instance, they're fans who never will be content with their idol being somewhere else than #1...

While i do not agree on Clark and Fangio beeing better than Senna, saying Schumacher was in the same league is completelly insane. It is the same absurd to consider let s say Irvine a better driver than Michael.
For those who don t speak portugueese, Gagá means senile.

Thanks a lot for your translation work. And also for your "disagreement" concerning Clark and Fangio... I can live with it. But saying that Schumacher wasn't in the same league as Senna doesn't testify of accurate vision... And I can't understand the Irvine example, so you really mean Schumacher was rather to compare with Irvine than with Senna? Please...

Like it or not, as i said before, AS was the best by far and that s why the vast majority of racing drivers and people involved in racing say so. I should say that except for MS die hard fans, Nelson s widows and a few Prost s fans, no one has doubts about it. Senna impressed everyone driving karts, FFord, F3. His first drive ever in a F1 car was not a good or a just a very drive. It was clear since day one that he he was different. In his fifth race ever Senna showed he was in a different league. In his first race driving a decent car, a wet track, he lapped everyone. Prost was a genius, still Senna was way way better.

If you ever had the chance to race against him AND other great drivers, i am sure you would understand that in a much easier way.

I definitely don't like it... As a matter of fact, I've raced a couple of kart races against your "half-god", does it qualify me to have a different opinion then yours? Of course I was very impressed and have rated him very high from the first day I saw him karting, but by no means I have realized all this "one of a kind" stuff. And all the F1 data you mention is highly debatable: This mix of facts, legends and opinions and the near missionary zeal to spread it is what makes the whole Senna cult very suspect to me... So maybe Senna, as he is worshiped by some here, was really the absolute #1, but... Did he really exist "as such"...?
And it would be very kind if this thread would be kept free of mentioning "Nelson's widows", general and confusing talk about untalented fat, tall, skinny and small Brazilian drivers and plain stupid and disgraceful TV commentators with the tendency to spread BS and create cheap myths... BTW, if my nickname offends you, as it seems, I could change it to..."Placido Iglesias, the singer" (also a pearl © G.Bueno ) if it would be more to your liking...

[MARDRU]

Definitely, "migilori" means "best" and Autosprint's pool, including F1, Rally, Sport car and US series drivers goes beyond of comparing apples and oranges, to me it seems more like cherries and potatoes...

And for instance, they're fans who never will be content with their idol being somewhere else than #1...



Thanks a lot for your translation work. And also for your "disagreement" concerning Clark and Fangio... I can live with it. But saying that Schumacher wasn't in the same league as Senna doesn't testify of accurate vision... And I can't understand the Irvine example, so you really mean Schumacher was rather to compare with Irvine than with Senna? Please...



I definitely don't like it... As a matter of fact, I've raced a couple of kart races against your "half-god", does it qualify me to have a different opinion then yours? Of course I was very impressed and have rated him very high from the first day I saw him karting, but by no means I have realized all this "one of a kind" stuff.


It all depends if you were close enough to Ayrton and able to folow the guy for a while or you just could see him for a small fraction of seconds till the blue flag was frenetically shown to you


And all the F1 data you mention is highly debatable: This mix of facts, legends and opinions and the near missionary zeal to spread it is what makes the whole Senna cult very suspect to me...

To be honest (MS s aproach...) i also don´t like this, mainly because it is been spread by people with almost no knowledge or experience about driving, people who didn´t watch most of AS´s c pre F1 career or even in Formula one. But still, if you look for and want to know really how good the guy really was, there are plenty of people who were really there and they will all say the same thing. The best ever. By far.

So maybe Senna, as he is worshiped by some here, was really the absolute #1, but... Did he really exist "as such"...?

Yes. Senna was the one. When he went to Italy to race with DAP, his first contact with his new chassis, he was already faster than the arguably best kart driver in history. Unknown track for him (AS), ) 0.2 seconds faster than the official driver (remeber that a paid karting driver was not usual at all at that time unless you were Fullerton-the king !) and a new track record after 35 laps. Fullerton says it was not exactly like this, but fact is considering what TF said was would be a fair comparison (same track temperature, same used tyres and before Senna did some adjustments in the kart (!!!) ) , AS was already as fast as him in 6 (SIX!!!) laps, counting the first two warm up laps...

And it would be very kind if this thread would be kept free of mentioning "Nelson's widows", general and confusing talk about untalented fat, tall, skinny and small Brazilian drivers and plain stupid and disgraceful TV commentators with the tendency to spread BS and create cheap myths... BTW, if my nickname offends you, as it seems, I could change it to..."Placido Iglesias, the singer" (also a pearl © G.Bueno ) if it would be more to your liking...

"Massinha" would be better. I also do not like GB (surprise...) but the reasons are, for sure, way dif than yours. But please, do not buy and don´t sell NP´s cult neither as it simply didn´t happened the way some say. He is made of the same stuff of MS, altough more talented than the 7 times WDC, for sure.

[Aloisioitaly]

Like it or not, as i said before, AS was the best by far

Like it or not, this statement is far from reality.

[lafitek]

Like it or not, this statement is far from reality.

you are in the minority mate
Vrba ( in croatian) "ajde Å¡uti ti si crven ko tvoj novo izvoljeni predcjednik"...but this is by majority

[Aloisioitaly]

you are in the minority mate
Vrba ( in croatian) "ajde Å¡uti ti si crven ko tvoj novo izvoljeni predcjednik"...but this is by majority

Ara you from Croatia?

[Group B]

Like it or not, as i said before, AS was the best by far and that s why the vast majority of racing drivers and people involved in racing say so. I should say that except for MS die hard fans, Nelson s widows and a few Prost s fans, no one has doubts about it.

Well I don't like it for the simple reason that it's total arse gravy; the irony in this discussion is that whilst calling other people "die hard fans" and such the like you are clearly the most ardent uber-fanatic in this thread. Many people might agree that AS was the best, but you demolish your own credibility with an ongoing plethora of absurd exaggerations, idolisations and put downs. As Gagá Bueno has very ably pointed you elevation of Senna to the status of demigod is nothing more than an out-rush of loose stool water.

Senna was one of the very best, perhaps the best, but he most certainly wasn't in a league of his own as you claim.

[Gagá Bueno]

It all depends if you were close enough to Ayrton and able to folow the guy for a while or you just could see him for a small fraction of seconds till the blue flag was frenetically shown to you lol.gif

Shows how much you know about karting in Brazil in the 70's... Blue flags...? BTW I was rather in the midpack and never had the honor of being lapped by young St. Ayrton... If brake-testing and being punted (as it did happen to ANY new guy, untill F1 days as it seems...) counts, it's "a bit" different... And since you know so much about cheating, can you explain me how "demigod" hung always around with Brazil's best kart tuner, even in the "baby" series (you know, Brazilian engine and chassis "must remain untouched" & so on...) and other similar facts...?

Yes. Senna was the one. When he went to Italy to race with DAP, his first contact with his new chassis, he was already faster than the arguably best kart driver in history. Unknown track for him (AS), ) 0.2 seconds faster than the official driver (remeber that a paid karting driver was not usual at all at that time unless you were Fullerton-the king !) and a new track record after 35 laps. Fullerton says it was not exactly like this, but fact is considering what TF said was would be a fair comparison (same track temperature, same used tyres and before Senna did some adjustments in the kart (!!!) ) , AS was already as fast as him in 6 (SIX!!!) laps, counting the first two warm up laps...

Nice anecdote, gives proof of what exactly...? As far as I know, Fullerton was 1x karting WDC, Senna never... As an more actual and F1 related example, I don't think even the most diehard Hamilton fanatic would praise him for being faster than de la Rosa or Paffett in his first McL tests...

"Massinha" would be better. I also do not like GB (surprise...) but the reasons are, for sure, way dif than yours. But please, do not buy and don´t sell NP´s cult neither as it simply didn´t happened the way some say. He is made of the same stuff of MS, altough more talented than the 7 times WDC, for sure.

So, who's "selling" cult here...? And I would really like you to share your insights on NP Sr. being "exactly as Schumacher" (I, for my part, couldn't imagine more different careers...) and what he did to win your special "esteem"...

Edited by Buttoneer, 11 January 2010 - 13:14.

[MARDRU]

Shows how much you know about karting in Brazil in the 70's... Blue flags...? BTW I was rather in the midpack and never had the honor of being lapped by young St. Ayrton... If brake-testing and being punted (as it did happen to ANY new guy, untill F1 days as it seems...) counts, it's "a bit" different... And since you know so much about cheating, can you explain me how "demigod" hung always around with Brazil's best kart tuner, even in the "baby" series (you know, Brazilian engine and chassis "must remain untouched" & so on...) and other similar facts...?

Sorry for the blue flag, but i am glad you got my point...
FYI, at that time Senna was obsessed in having the best set of tyres (maybe that´s why you were only in the midpack. Maybe?). But i do understand your point. And yes, i agree and know he always wanted to have the best equipment since his karting days, as all top drivers at that time who could afford and pay for it.
Just do not compared that to what Mr. NP and MS had been doing. They were cheaters, as simple as that. BTW, do you have any doubts that Mercedes/Todt/RB/MS will have the "best car" for 2010?


Nice anecdote, gives proof of what exactly...? As far as I know, Fullerton was 1x karting WDC, Senna never... As an more actual and F1 related example, I don't think even the most diehard Hamilton fanatic would praise him for being faster than de la Rosa or Paffett in his first McL tests...

Nah, you don´t know that much about karting, do you?
Comparing Fullerton greatness in karting to de la Rosa or Paffets in F1...
We better stop here, "F1 fan".


So, who's "selling" cult here...? And I would really like you to share your insights on NP Sr. being "exactly as Schumacher" (I, for my part, couldn't imagine more different careers...) and what he did to win your special "esteem"...

You know very little about both men, i presume.
Anyway, let´s enjoy the 2010 season.

[jeze]

Really funny making a top 100 over the last 50 years without featuring Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt, Rick Mears, Al Unser Sr, Bobby Unser, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt and well yeah... Dixon and Franchitti easily deserve to be on such a list. Completely muppets placing Oliver Gavin (!?) on top 100

[Rob]

Completely muppets placing Oliver Gavin (!?) on top 100

Olly is a quality driver.

[Gagá Bueno]

i presume.

Yes, you presume a lot... And since this thread is not about karting nor my minor achievements in the midpack, I also prefer to let your "mishmash" of (fresh from the Senna books...)"facts", presumptions and half-personal attacks unanswered... And, for my part, having talked live & directly to trustworthy people who have raced Clark and Senna, I tend to rate the first mentioned higher, in any aspect. If I'm allowed, for instance...
And I'm also still waiting for a thread with exclusive first-hand info (but please not only pointless BS) on the "evil cheats" NP & MS from the (it seems) only real insider here...

[ADL1999]

Hello everyone,

I'm a few months late in replying here but anywho...

First, I'd like to salute and thank AutoSport for their great work.

I just finished reading the 10 pages of comments & must admit that I am pleasantly surprised to see the great deal of knowledge there is amongst this forum's members. I would say that I would agree with most of the comments found in the first ¾ of the thread, but find that the last ¼ of the tread looses a bit track over the initial talk.

In any case, here's my opinion, that I found was reflected in numerous posts.

Many posters said something along the lines of : "They asked drivers for THEIR top 10, so anything beyond that would be hard to evaluate". I'd agree with that, but would push it to the "top 20" being fairly accurate myself (although maybe not in that specific order). But I guess the editors found they could push this to a top 40 (of 83), since that's what they decided to publish in their main article...

As also stated by many, I think that this "tops" list has more to do with drivers that are the most admired, or the top 10 "role models" for the drivers that were polled. Hence the lack of any Arnoux, Coulthard or Barrichello making it to the top! And the surprising presence of the likes of Nakajima or Lamy amongst others.
No doubt they were amongst the top 10 role models of certain of the drivers polled though.

Personnally, The two drivers I admired the most were G.Villeneuve & A.Senna, but I wouldn't rank them at these positions knowing the achievement of others, namely : their ratio in regards to the number of wins, pole positions and best laps per GP entered throughout their carreer, as well as the number of World title(s) over the number of years present on the circuits (as drivers).
Basing myself on these 4 criterias and on where each driver stands compared to the others, here's my point of view on the list :

- As you can imagine, based on the fact that one would need to achieve at least one championship race win, pole position or fastest lap, the "would'a, might'a, could'az" would not make my top 10 list; thus, and although all of which being undoubtedly talented drivers, I find that the BELLOF, MAGGS, ZANARDI, A.SUZUKI, MODENA, SCHELL, LIUZZI, LAMY & NAKAJIMA have a strange prestance on this list

- Of the 83 drivers that made the AutoSport Greatest Drivers list, apart from the previously listed drivers and in regards to their career performances, I would not see : DeCESARIS, WARWICK, HERBERT, PESCAROLO, PRYCE, BEHRA, HAILWOOD, TRINTIGNANT, IRVINE or VILLORESI make it to a top 83 list either.

- I'll go for a top 50 myself in slices of 20+20+10, of which I would put G.VILLENEUVE, FITTIPALDI, RINDT, PETERSON & ANDRETTI in the 21-40 ranked drivers rather than in the top 20. IMHO, D.HILL, FARINA, RAIKKONEN, HUNT & MONTOYA (at #20) should take their (not respective) spot in the top 20. As stated by others, I also think that Damon HILL is THE most underrated driver (along with MASSA) on this list. Damon should undoubtedly make it to the top 10 actually!

- I agree with G.HILL, SURTEES, VETTEL, GONZALEZ, JONES, P.HILL, REGAZZONI, BERGER & ICKX belonging in the "21-40" slice.

- This being said, and IMHO, ROSBERG, GURNEY, REUTEMANN & PATRESE should belong on the 41-50 slice, with CEVERT (definitely) & BUTTON lower than 50. I'd rather rate MASSA, HAWTHORN, BROOKS & J.VILLENEUVE as being part of the 21-40 slice.

- I also agree with the SCHECKTER, PIRONI & LAFFITE's "41-50" slice rating

- I would also rate HULME as taking part of the 41-50 "slice" (rather than 62!), with ALESI, KUBICA, TARUFFI, BANDINI & ALBORETO lower than 50.

- I also agree with the fact that SIFFERT, McLAREN, BELTOISE, Von TRIPS, PACE & WEBBER definitely belong in any 83 greatests list.

So in my opinion, the drivers "missing" from the list (in subtitute for the previously discarded drivers) would be :
- in the 21-40 slice : ARNOUX & COULTHARD.
- in the 41-50 slice : BARRICHELLO & R.SCHUMACHER (wether or not he's not greatly missed ).
- and definitely missing from this list would be drivers the likes of : WATSON, DEPAILLER, KOVALAINEN, FRENTZEN, TAMBAY, JABOUILLE, REVSON, SCARFIOTTI, MUSSO, BAGHETTI, GINTHER & NILSSON.

Finally, a lot of members made the comment that the top 5 of any list were always the same & the order open to infinite debate.
I'd push that to 6 actually (in alphabetical order): CLARK, FANGIO, PROST, SCHUMACHER, SENNA & STEWART.
Personnally, I'd like to make it "7" and add ASCARI.
In that top of the "tops" list, I think that Clark & Schumacher would cut it quite close to one another so as Prost vs Senna (which they litterally did).

...but if you wonder what my personnal opinion is on who the "greatest ever" F1 driver is, I would have to say without any hesitation : FANGIO.



I'm in the process of analysing the drivers that were polled, so if anyone's interested, we could revive this thread as such.


CHEERS!

Edited by ADL1999, 21 April 2010 - 15:46.

[FigJam]

Really funny making a top 100 over the last 50 years without featuring Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt, Rick Mears, Al Unser Sr, Bobby Unser, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt and well yeah... Dixon and Franchitti easily deserve to be on such a list. Completely muppets placing Oliver Gavin (!?) on top 100

US series based drivers get completely shafted.

FWIW Jacques Villeneuve is always ridiculously undervalued.

He should be in the 18-25 bracket, won the CART title, Indy 500 and F1 World Championship.

Too much focus on 2003 onwards with JV.

[lafitek]

http://www.motorspor...e_10040515.html

after Autosport ....Ayrton Senna the best ever also by German Motosport-Total......

1. senna ..........45.19%
2.schumacher...39.16%
.
.
.
total votes:25.000

[ADL1999]

http://www.motorspor...e_10040515.html

after Autosport ....Ayrton Senna the best ever also by German Motosport-Total......

1. senna ..........45.19%
2.schumacher...39.16%

total votes:25000

A readers poll with
3. 3.32% Juan Manuel Fangio
4. 2.92% Niki Lauda
5. 2.58% Alain Prost

No Jim Clark!!!! No Jackie Stewart, not even MOSS, but Lauda...

In my opinion, this would be more of a survey on the impact of the media on the current readers than any serious analysis.

Nevertheless, it seems that Senna won a majority of hearts amongst current F1 enthousiasts (including mine).

Unfortunately, and no matter how you look at it, I do not believe he is the best all around driver in the history of Formula one racing.

As a side note, here's how a great driver (GV) gets back into a race after spinning out : http://www.youtube.c...yNpzYU#t=02m48s (using manual shift) - enjoy!

[Sakae]

List lost credibility with me when I found Kubica being rated ahead of Zanardi. I followed Alex in US for several years, and I have seen Kubica crusing around the track on Sunday afternoon. The list is an utter joke for anyone to think that Alex should not be in top fifty. In fact I think Alex was a better racer than Montoya. (Now I have to figure out what "important" means within context of this poll).

[Bruce]

Lewis Hamilton in 17th? James Hunt where? Both have 1 WDC - but Hunt won a race in a HESKETH.

Nuff said.

[PretentiousBread]

Lewis Hamilton in 17th? James Hunt where? Both have 1 WDC - but Hunt won a race in a HESKETH.

Nuff said.

No, not enough said. Is that all you've got to suggest James Hunt deserves to be higher than Hamilton?

Worth mentioning Hunt won his championship in no small part due to the absence of Lauda for two rounds after his accident at Germany.

[halifaxf1fan]

Lewis Hamilton in 17th? James Hunt where? Both have 1 WDC - but Hunt won a race in a HESKETH.

Nuff said.

That is a bit of a wishfull placement. Hamilton's career so far is best compared to JV although I think JV should be a bit higher rated than 36th. I would say that after this past season Hamilton will have dropped out of the top 25.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 11 December 2011 - 03:48.