24317 replies to this topic

[Bonaventura]

I see, the producers too are out to get Hamilton.

Honestly wich radio transmission from Button do you remember except Canada?
+Button is extremely bad to understand on the radio (at least for me)
the teams messages ok, but how many responses hear we ?

[Buttoneer]

I see, the producers too are out to get Hamilton.

No it's s story with plucky Brit Button (played by Hugh Grant) who is up against the odds driving to win races ahead of ruthless Hamilton (played by Sacha Baron Cohen) in a fight to gain the heart of Team Principal Whitmarsh (played by George Clooney) who is torn between his two stars and can't decide which one to give the upgraded front wing to.

[WIC]

I see, the producers too are out to get Hamilton.

Who said that? I didn't

[as65p]

No it's s story with plucky Brit Button (played by Hugh Grant) who is up against the odds driving to win races ahead of ruthless Hamilton (played by Sacha Baron Cohen) in a fight to gain the heart of Team Principal Whitmarsh (played by George Clooney) who is torn between his two stars and can't decide which one to give the upgraded front wing to.

[GlenP]

This discussion has become, yet again, so absurd as to make it worth reading for comedy value alone.

However, just to point out that "moaning about balance" is totally different to saying something like "this was an absolutely terrible idea" - when a driver (either of them) "moans" about balance it is because they can do something about it at the next stop - change tyre pressures, adjust front wing; the second example is just moaning, which is completely different.

There is so much devotion on the part of a lot of people in these threads that they only recall things which support their bias, and they fail to hear or notice lots of detail because they are so wrapped-up in their support for "their" driver.

[bauss]

There is so much devotion on the part of a lot of people in these threads that they only recall things which support their bias, and they fail to hear or notice lots of detail because they are so wrapped-up in their support for "their" driver.

and a lot are the opposite cos they are so wrapped up in their dislike of the driver....its a two way street

Edited by bauss, 01 July 2011 - 11:56.

[Gridfire]

No it's s story with plucky Brit Button (played by Hugh Grant) who is up against the odds driving to win races ahead of ruthless Hamilton (played by Sacha Baron Cohen) in a fight to gain the heart of Team Principal Whitmarsh (played by George Clooney) who is torn between his two stars and can't decide which one to give the upgraded front wing to.

Shake and Bake!

[GlenP]

and a lot are the opposite cos they are so wrapped up in their dislike of the driver....its a two way street

Well, I meant that as well, but I was trying to be succinct!

In any case, your notion of "dislike" is usually only invoked because the blind "lovers" can't conceive of any other reason for someone to hold a view different to their own.

As it stands there seems to be a good chunk of support for the idea that Hamilton isn't beating Button because: He's black; the team don't listen to him (even though he knows everything); Jenson slammed him into the wall (thereby robbing him of a certain win); and so-on.

I mean - come on! Is it not much more likely that they are quite evenly matched (albeit with different strengths and weaknesses) and F1 is a frustrating business because it is a team effort?

[Gridfire]

I mean - come on! Is it not much more likely that they are quite evenly matched (albeit with different strengths and weaknesses) and F1 is a frustrating business because it is a team effort?

Gridfire likes this

[gricey1981]

They are not really that evenly matched though.

The points are like they are due to a racing accident in Canada.

[Owen]

What happens when Lewis and Jenson take on a fashion shoot.
http://www.gpupdate....y-photographer/

[speng]

This discussion has become, yet again, so absurd as to make it worth reading for comedy value alone.

However, just to point out that "moaning about balance" is totally different to saying something like "this was an absolutely terrible idea" - when a driver (either of them) "moans" about balance it is because they can do something about it at the next stop - change tyre pressures, adjust front wing; the second example is just moaning, which is completely different.

There is so much devotion on the part of a lot of people in these threads that they only recall things which support their bias, and they fail to hear or notice lots of detail because they are so wrapped-up in their support for "their" driver.

And without a doubt this statement includes everyone, no exceptions. It is nothing new.

[trogggy]

And without a doubt this statement includes everyone, no exceptions. It is nothing new.

Rubbish.

[speng]

Rubbish.

yeah right

[trogggy]

yeah right

I've read that argument lots of times.
'Yeah, I'm completely biased, but so is everyone else.'
I can name fans of LH in this thread who, although they have a bias, can look past it.
You're not on the list.

[Force Ten]

I've read that argument lots of times.
'Yeah, I'm completely biased, but so is everyone else.'
I can name fans of LH in this thread who, although they have a bias, can look past it.

They are not LH fans. They are in fact LH haters. Honest.

[GlenP]

And without a doubt this statement includes everyone, no exceptions. It is nothing new.

That's obvious nonsense. Again, the point you're making there is that if someone disagrees then their motivation must be bias - whereas someone might be disagreeing because the agrument they're reading is just silly!

I mean, how will you you include in your "everyone" people who don't support a particular driver - like myself? I'll say things like Hamilton still has some growing up and learning to do, and I'll also say he has a fantastic ability and talent. Those aren't contradictory - they just are true.

[speng]

I've read that argument lots of times.
'Yeah, I'm completely biased, but so is everyone else.'
I can name fans of LH in this thread who, although they have a bias, can look past it.
You're not on the list.

that is correct and do you really think that it matters what you think? Stop wasting time the thread topic is Lewis and Jenson scorecard 2011

[trogggy]

that is correct and do you really think that it matters what you think? Stop wasting time the thread topic is Lewis and Jenson scorecard 2011

Take your own advice.

[gricey1981]

That's obvious nonsense. Again, the point you're making there is that if someone disagrees then their motivation must be bias - whereas someone might be disagreeing because the agrument they're reading is just silly!

I mean, how will you you include in your "everyone" people who don't support a particular driver - like myself? I'll say things like Hamilton still has some growing up and learning to do, and I'll also say he has a fantastic ability and talent. Those aren't contradictory - they just are true.

Oh dear..... Glen your bias is as obvious as everybodys.

[currupipi]

They are not LH fans. They are in fact LH haters. Honest.

[Kvothe]

This discussion has become, yet again, so absurd as to make it worth reading for comedy value alone.

However, just to point out that "moaning about balance" is totally different to saying something like "this was an absolutely terrible idea" - when a driver (either of them) "moans" about balance it is because they can do something about it at the next stop - change tyre pressures, adjust front wing; the second example is just moaning, which is completely different.

There is so much devotion on the part of a lot of people in these threads that they only recall things which support their bias, and they fail to hear or notice lots of detail because they are so wrapped-up in their support for "their" driver.

I know this is implicitly directed at Lewis fans but ahh the Irony.

[P123]

He's always complaining about balance/understeer/oversteer etc in barely comprehensible tones.

Maybe in the second half of his Brawn WDC season- since then we have heard little of JB's radio communications to the team, so it seems a tad unfair to brand him as a moaner on the radio when there is not a huge body of evidence to support such an assertion. Granted, he does complain to the media regularly about being unhappy with the balance of his car.

[PretentiousBread]

Just thought i'd let you guys know that I had a dream last night that John Button was a transexual who actually gave birth to Jenson - he is his mother.

[Watkins74]

Just thought i'd let you guys know that I had a dream last night that John Button was a transexual who actually gave birth to Jenson - he is his mother.

Just curious.....in this dream was John Button wearing a pink shirt?

[PretentiousBread]

Just curious.....in this dream was John Button wearing a pink shirt?

Can't remember many details unfortunately, but probably.

[jjcale]

Just curious.....in this dream was John Button wearing a pink shirt?

... dont you mean a pink skirt?

[ImDDAA]

That's not a pink shirt, it's a skin graft his body rejected, he sports it with pride and refuses to cover up.

[Rinehart]

They are not really that evenly matched though.

The points are like they are due to a racing accident in Canada.

But they absolutely are fairly evenly matched OVERALL over this season and over a season and a half together and with 1 WDC title each and with a reasonably similar wins count from starts in a car capable of winning. One of the reasons for this is that Button is more consistent than Hamilton so yes, Hamiltons Canada DNF has an effect. But don't try to make out that one incident, which Hamilton could have avoided incidentaly, somehow changes a picture formed over a few years.

Everyone can see that Hamilton is fractionally faster, but when oh when are people going to accept that raw speed is just one of a hundred factors that make up a drivers overall ability? Yuo can't say 'well he would obviously be ahead if he didn't crash in Canada' because the whole point is it did happen and its a skill to avoid it.

Its like saying that Drogba is a better player than Lampard because he scores more goals. It fails to value so many other equaly important criteria.

[Rinehart]

I've read that argument lots of times.
'Yeah, I'm completely biased, but so is everyone else.'
I can name fans of LH in this thread who, although they have a bias, can look past it.
You're not on the list.

There is no way that there are any Button fans on here that can match some of the more extreme Hamilton fans! Even many Hamilton fans have admitted their embaressment on here for having to share support for a driver who is followed by the truly devoted and their utterly ludicrous theories! So yeah I agree, its a non arguement to say 'we are all equally biased'. I mean, I am always adding that I believe Hamilton is faster to my posts, even when I'm just talking about Button, just so I don't get 200 ranters responding.

[trogggy]

There is no way that there are any Button fans on here that can match some of the more extreme Hamilton fans! Even many Hamilton fans have admitted their embaressment on here for having to share support for a driver who is followed by the truly devoted and their utterly ludicrous theories! So yeah I agree, its a non arguement to say 'we are all equally biased'. I mean, I am always adding that I believe Hamilton is faster to my posts, even when I'm just talking about Button, just so I don't get 200 ranters responding.

I can think of one.
No, it's not you.

[Buttoneer]

Sorry for letting the side down, guys.

[trogggy]

Sorry for letting the side down, guys.

[flyer121]

Button has gone up in my estimation especially if he stays ahead of Lewis for the rest of the season.
What do you guys think of Button's chances of finishing ahead of Lewis in points? Small but possible ..

[Buttoneer]

Miniscule to non-existant.

[hammibal]

But they absolutely are fairly evenly matched OVERALL over this season and over a season and a half together and with 1 WDC title each and with a reasonably similar wins count from starts in a car capable of winning. One of the reasons for this is that Button is more consistent than Hamilton so yes, Hamiltons Canada DNF has an effect. But don't try to make out that one incident, which Hamilton could have avoided incidentaly, somehow changes a picture formed over a few years.

Everyone can see that Hamilton is fractionally faster, but when oh when are people going to accept that raw speed is just one of a hundred factors that make up a drivers overall ability? Yuo can't say 'well he would obviously be ahead if he didn't crash in Canada' because the whole point is it did happen and its a skill to avoid it.

Its like saying that Drogba is a better player than Lampard because he scores more goals. It fails to value so many other equaly important criteria.

The closeness of the points reflects a bit on Lewis overdriving the car though, he drives more for wins than for points, the overall race score is 17-10 in favour of Lewis, the points are close because Lewis has posted 5 retirements against the 2 of Jenson. If you exclude race retirements the score is 15-5 in favour of Lewis which includes Lewis's gearbox problem in Japan 2010 without him having that problem the score would be 16-4. If Lewis's goal was just to beat Jenson that would be quite an easy thing for him to acheive over the course of the season, but that is not Lewis's goal he wants to beat everyone which is hard to acheive in a largely inferior car hence the overdriving and making mistakes.

[hammibal]

Button has gone up in my estimation especially if he stays ahead of Lewis for the rest of the season.
What do you guys think of Button's chances of finishing ahead of Lewis in points? Small but possible ..

If Lewis writes the season off and stops overdriving then Jenson has little chance

[Rinehart]

Sorry for letting the side down, guys.

Try harder!

[Rinehart]

Button has gone up in my estimation especially if he stays ahead of Lewis for the rest of the season.
What do you guys think of Button's chances of finishing ahead of Lewis in points? Small but possible ..

50/50.

If Hamiltons head goes its more likely. If Hamilton improves his racecraft its less likely.
Button should just carry on doing what he's doing, although a couple of tenths in Q3 would be a bonus.

[gricey1981]

But they absolutely are fairly evenly matched OVERALL over this season and over a season and a half together and with 1 WDC title each and with a reasonably similar wins count from starts in a car capable of winning. One of the reasons for this is that Button is more consistent than Hamilton so yes, Hamiltons Canada DNF has an effect. But don't try to make out that one incident, which Hamilton could have avoided incidentaly, somehow changes a picture formed over a few years.

Everyone can see that Hamilton is fractionally faster, but when oh when are people going to accept that raw speed is just one of a hundred factors that make up a drivers overall ability? Yuo can't say 'well he would obviously be ahead if he didn't crash in Canada' because the whole point is it did happen and its a skill to avoid it.

Its like saying that Drogba is a better player than Lampard because he scores more goals. It fails to value so many other equaly important criteria.

So when the end of the season comes around again and Lewis is ahead by another 25 points, even though he has several more retirements are you still going to say there equal.

Its preposterous to be saying that they are equal now as the only reason Button is ahead is because of that wreck which involved both of them. You cannot say that Button is better at avoiding incidents when it could have very well been him with 0 points and hamilton with 25.

[trogggy]

So when the end of the season comes around again and Lewis is ahead by another 25 points, even though he has several more retirements are you still going to say there equal.

Its preposterous to be saying that they are equal now as the only reason Button is ahead is because of that wreck which involved both of them. You cannot say that Button is better at avoiding incidents when it could have very well been him with 0 points and hamilton with 25.

Sure you can. You could say that if Canada had never happened - so Canada doesn't change anything there.

[gricey1981]

Sure you can. You could say that if Canada had never happened - so Canada doesn't change anything there.

Well then yo get into all the ifs and but and maybes etc.

Facts are that they both wrecked. Jenson was lucky and was able to continue.

[tkulla]

So when the end of the season comes around again and Lewis is ahead by another 25 points, even though he has several more retirements are you still going to say there equal.

Its preposterous to be saying that they are equal now as the only reason Button is ahead is because of that wreck which involved both of them. You cannot say that Button is better at avoiding incidents when it could have very well been him with 0 points and hamilton with 25.

I don't view the final point tally last year as truly representative - Button was doing some donkey work those last few races.

[trogggy]

Well then yo get into all the ifs and but and maybes etc.

Facts are that they both wrecked. Jenson was lucky and was able to continue.

There's no ifs, buts or maybes.

Look at their DNFs since they've been team-mates. Take out the non-fault ones. Ignore Canada.
JB's total = 0.
LH = ?

[gricey1981]

There's no ifs, buts or maybes.

Look at their DNFs since they've been team-mates. Take out the non-fault ones. Ignore Canada.
JB's total = 0.
LH = ?

But thats the point. If you ignore Canada then chances are Hamilton would be ahead in the points. Then Rinehart cannot say overall they are equal.

[bauss]

Miniscule to non-existant.

hmm, thought you were one of those saying 50-50 or so a short while back.

[trogggy]

But thats the point. If you ignore Canada then chances are Hamilton would be ahead in the points. Then Rinehart cannot say overall they are equal.

You weren't talking about points - you were talking about avoiding incidents.

Do keep up, Bond.

Edited by trogggy, 04 July 2011 - 14:59.

[Buttoneer]

hmm, thought you were one of those saying 50-50 or so a short while back.

By all means check. I've been quite consistent in how I view the ability of these drivers.

[PayasYouRace]

Well then yo get into all the ifs and but and maybes etc.

Facts are that they both wrecked. Jenson was lucky and was able to continue.

So did Jenson wreck or didn't he?

[gricey1981]

So did Jenson wreck or didn't he?

yeah he did - you didnt watch it? - had to pit and everything!