516 replies to this topic

[tyker]

Funny how the guy who's actually at the top of the table in terms of difference to his teammate is the one who is closer to him on points than any other driver pair - both percentage-wise (7%) as well as in actual point-difference (5 pts). The only two guys closer are Barrichello and Maldonado (3pts), but they've barely accumulated any points.

I think its fair to say in some cases that qualifying pace doesn't always translate into race pace

[tyker]

After Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi difference)

1. Glock 0.51s (0,184s)
2. Rosberg 0.45s (1.134s)
3. Vettel 0.39s (0.34s)
4. Alonso 0.37s 0.565s)
5. Kovalainen 0.27s (0.905s)
6. Hamilton 0.25s (0.197s)
7. Buemi 0.22s (0.153s)
8. Sutil 0.13s (0.209s)
9. Petrov 0.12s (0.16s)
10.Perez 0.08s (0.367s)
11.Ricciardo 0.06s (0.528s)
12.Barrichello 0.045s (-)

[apoka]

8. Sutil 0.13s (0.209s)

Just emphasizing this, since some wrote that Sutil was trashed by Di Resta in qualy this season.

[tyker]

Just emphasizing this, since some wrote that Sutil was trashed by Di Resta in qualy this season.

Early in the season he was getting beat but second half of the season he has dominated di Resta

[tyker]

After Brazil (Brazil difference) head to head

1. Rosberg 0.49s (1.002s) 16-0
2. Glock 0.47s (-0.041s) 12-4
3. Vettel 0.373s (0.181s) 14-2
4. Alonso 0.371s (0.477s) 16-2
5. Kovalainen 0.27s (0.29s) 12-2
6. Hamilton 0.22s (-0.197s) 12-4
7. Buemi 0.2s (-0.115s) 13-3
8. Sutil 0.14s (0.303s) 12-7
9. Barrichello 0.08s (0.508s) 9-5
10.Perez 0.07s (-0.053s) 9-6
11.Petrov 0.023s (-0.559s) 5-2
12.Ricciardo 0.015s (-0.249s) 3-4

Edited by tyker, 26 November 2011 - 22:42.

[rog]

After Brazil (Brazil difference) head to head

1. Rosberg 0.49s (1.002s) 16-0

Schumacher was faster in Monaco. How can you say 16-0?

[tyker]

Schumacher was faster in Monaco. How can you say 16-0?

Rosberg wasn't able to set a representative time in Q3 because of Perez's crash causing a red flag he was about 1 second slower than what he managed in Q2, 16-0 means that i discounted 3 qualifying sessions

[rog]

Rosberg wasn't able to set a representative time in Q3 because of Perez's crash causing a red flag he was about 1 second slower than what he managed in Q2, 16-0 means that i discounted 3 qualifying sessions

In this case you could use his Q2 time. I know he didn't drove a representative Q3 lap but after all he drove a (slow) lap.

[Zava]

Schumacher was faster in Monaco. How can you say 16-0?

Rosberg was mighty fast in monaco, but the perez crash made it impossible for him (as well)

[Starish]

Rosberg wasn't able to set a representative time in Q3 because of Perez's crash causing a red flag he was about 1 second slower than what he managed in Q2, 16-0 means that i discounted 3 qualifying sessions

Did you count China then?

[tyker]

Did you count China then?

No

[tyker]

In this case you could use his Q2 time. I know he didn't drove a representative Q3 lap but after all he drove a (slow) lap.

I don't use times in a session where the other driver hasn't been able to post a representative time

[Zava]

No

IIRC in china both of them was held up by saubers, weren't they?

[tyker]

IIRC in china both of them was held up by saubers, weren't they?

I don't remember but i must have had a reason at the time

[tyker]

2012 season

1. Alonso 0.68s
2. Glock 0.55s
3. De La Rosa 0.44s
4. Ricciardo 0.384s
5. Hulkenberg 0.379s
6. Maldonado 0.35s
7. Kovalainen 0.3s
8. Schumacher 0.2s
9. Hamilton 0.15s
10.Webber 0.1s
11.Perez 0.09s
12.Grosjean 0.05s

[Dan333SP]

2012 season

1. Alonso 0.68s

8. Schumacher 0.2s

Schumacher

Massa

[tyker]

After China (China times)

1. Alonso 0.54s (0.271s)
2. Ricciardo 0.52s (0.781s)
3. Glock 0.51s (0.435s)
4. De La Rosa 0.49s (0.589s)
5. Kovalainen 0.27s (0.214s)
6. Maldonado 0.24s (0.006s)
7. Hamilton 0.21s (0.316s)
8. Webber 0.17s (0.331s)
9. Hulkenberg 0.11s (-0.428s)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (0.57s)
11.Perez 0.04s (-0.047s)
12.Grosjean 0.03s (-0.005s)

[Menace]

After China (China times)

1. Alonso 0.54s (0.271s)
2. Ricciardo 0.52s (0.781s)
3. Glock 0.51s (0.435s)
4. De La Rosa 0.49s (0.589s)
5. Kovalainen 0.27s (0.214s)
6. Maldonado 0.24s (0.006s)
7. Hamilton 0.21s (0.316s)
8. Webber 0.17s (0.331s)
9. Hulkenberg 0.11s (-0.428s)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (0.57s)
11.Perez 0.04s (-0.047s)
12.Grosjean 0.03s (-0.005s)

Are you sure thats accurate? Or are you using Grosjean's Q2 time today?

Kimi has now outqualified him two races in a row.

[tyker]

Are you sure thats accurate? Or are you using Grosjean's Q2 time today?

Kimi has now outqualified him two races in a row.

Yes i take the fastest time

[Menace]

Yes i take the fastest time

Well thats not very representative then is it?

[Cool Beans]

Yes i take the fastest time

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[tyker]

After Bahrain (Bahrain times)

1. Ricciardo 0.64s (1.026s)
2. Alonso 0.53s (0.509s)
3. De La Rosa 0.48s (0.431s)
4. Kovalainen 0.45s (0.971s)
5. Glock 0.33s (-0.221s)
6. Hamilton 0.2s (0.191s)
7. Maldonaldo 0.14s (-0.173s)
8. Webber 0.08s (-0.215s)
9. Perez 0.07s (0.146s)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (-)
11.Grosjean 0.03s (-)
12.Hulkenberg 0.01s (-0.297s)

Edited by tyker, 22 April 2012 - 10:08.

[tyker]

After Barcelona (Barcelona times)

1. Alonso 0.54s (0.582s)
2. Ricciardo 0.48s (-0.177s)
3. De La Rosa 0.477s (-)
4. Maldonaldo 0.43s (1.601s)
5. Kovalainen 0.31s (-0.23s)
6. Hamilton 0.26s (0.479s)
7. Glock 0.17s (-0.45s)
8. Perez 0.08s (0.124s)
9. Rosberg 0.05s (0.022s)
10.Grosjean 0.04s (0.063s)
11.Webber 0.039s (-0.113s)
12.Di Resta 0.004s (0.052s)

Edited by tyker, 13 May 2012 - 11:21.

[tyker]

After Monaco (Monaco times)

1. De La Rosa 0.62s (1.214s)
2. Maldonaldo 0.47s (0.683s)
3. Alonso 0.45s (-0.037s)
4. Ricciardo 0.42s (0.131s)
5. Kovalainen 0.4s (0.866s)
6. Hamilton 0.28s (0.37s)
7. Glock 0.23s (0.529s)
8. Grosjean 0.14s (0.56s)
9. Perez 0.08s (-)
10.Webber 0.07s (0.199s)
11.Hulkenburg 0.05s (0.3s)
12.Rosberg 0.01s (-0.147s)

Edited by tyker, 27 May 2012 - 11:55.

[PretentiousBread]

After Monaco (Monaco times)

1. De La Rosa 0.62s (1.214s)
2. Maldonaldo 0.47s (0.683s)
3. Alonso 0.45s (-0.037s)
4. Ricciardo 0.42s (0.131s)
5. Kovalainen 0.4s (0.866s)
6. Hamilton 0.28s (0.37s)
7. Glock 0.23s (0.529s)
8. Grosjean 0.14s (0.56s)
9. Perez 0.08s (-)
10.Webber 0.07s (0.199s)
11.Hulkenburg 0.3s (0.05s)
12.Rosberg 0.01s (-0.147s)

Hamilton improved by a further 6 tenths in the final session. I don't see how this is an accurate comparison unless you factor this in. The same goes for Webber vs Vettel.

[tyker]

Hamilton improved by a further 6 tenths in the final session. I don't see how this is an accurate comparison unless you factor this in. The same goes for Webber vs Vettel.

I dont include times from sessions were one driver is absent, i appreciate that perhaps Hamilton wasnt pushing 100% in Q2, its sort of nice i have a Hamilton fan questioning my methods as its been Button fans before, i try to be even handed

[PretentiousBread]

I dont include times from sessions were one driver is absent, i appreciate that perhaps Hamilton wasnt pushing 100% in Q2, its sort of nice i have a Hamilton fan questioning my methods as its been Button fans before, i try to be even handed

I understand that, and it is even handed in one sense, but more unrepresentative in another. I think it's fairer to just take the fastest times they set in the final session they made it through to. Just my 2 cents.

[tyker]

I understand that, and it is even handed in one sense, but more unrepresentative in another. I think it's fairer to just take the fastest times they set in the final session they made it through to. Just my 2 cents.

You can't guarantee that the track conditions are the same though

[tyker]

After Canada (Canada times)

1. De La Rosa 0.66s (0.838s)
2. Ricciardo 0.5s (0.95s)
3. Alonso 0.43s (0.314s)
4. Maldonaldo 0.41s (0.016s)
5. Kovalainen 0.38 (0.219s)
6. Hamilton 0.32s (0.593s)
7. Glock 0.24s (0.324s)
8. Grosjean 0.14s (0.107s)
9. Hulkenburg 0.025s (-0.109s)
10.Vettel 0.024s (0.562s)
11.Rosberg 0.018s (0.069s)
12.Kobayashi 0.01s (0.468s)

[tyker]

After Valencia (Valencia times)

1. De La Rosa 0.62s (0.356s)
2. Ricciardo 0.47s (0.279s)
3. Maldonaldo 0.43s (0.637s)
4. Alonso 0.383s (0.073s)
5. Kovalainen 0.376s (0.37s)
6. Hamilton 0.3s (0.153s)
7. Glock 0.24s (-)
8. Grosjean 0.12s (0.024s)
9. Kobayashi 0.1s (0.65s)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (0.266s)
11.Vettel 0.02s (-)
12.Hulkenburg 0.0004s (-0.17s)

[tyker]

After Hockenheim (Hockenheim times)

1. De La Rosa 0.58s (0.318s)
2. Ricciardo 0.443s (0.225s)
3. Kovalainen 0.436s (0.911s)
4. Maldonaldo 0.435s (-)
5. Alonso 0.383s (-)
6. Hamilton 0.3s (-)
7. Glock 0.2s (-0.071s)
8. Grosjean 0.12s (-)
9. Kobayashi 0.1s (-)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (-)
11.Vettel 0.02s (-)
12.Hulkenburg 0.0004s (-)

[BetaVersion]

this calculations you are doing are worthless. They don't mean or represent any true valuable thing.

Schumacher trashed Nico in the last 2 qualifyings and you still compute Nico as half tenth on advantadge. Not to mention the amount of bad luck several drivers have had in qualifying: Webber, Kobayashi, Schumacher...

[Seanspeed]

this calculations you are doing are worthless. They don't mean or represent any true valuable thing.

Schumacher trashed Nico in the last 2 qualifyings and you still compute Nico as half tenth on advantadge. Not to mention the amount of bad luck several drivers have had in qualifying: Webber, Kobayashi, Schumacher...

They are interesting statistics and at no time did tyker ever say that they should be treated as absolute proof of anything in particular.

for the effort tyker.

[Ze Bum]

After Hockenheim (Hockenheim times)

1. De La Rosa 0.58s (0.318s)
2. Ricciardo 0.443s (0.225s)
3. Kovalainen 0.436s (0.911s)
4. Maldonaldo 0.435s (-)
5. Alonso 0.383s (-)
6. Hamilton 0.3s (-)
7. Glock 0.2s (-0.071s)
8. Grosjean 0.12s (-)
9. Kobayashi 0.1s (-)
10.Rosberg 0.05s (-)
11.Vettel 0.02s (-)
12.Hulkenburg 0.0004s (-)

Why only 4 results in Hockenheim?

[tyker]

this calculations you are doing are worthless. They don't mean or represent any true valuable thing.

Schumacher trashed Nico in the last 2 qualifyings and you still compute Nico as half tenth on advantadge. Not to mention the amount of bad luck several drivers have had in qualifying: Webber, Kobayashi, Schumacher...

I dont include wet qualifying sessions

They are interesting statistics and at no time did tyker ever say that they should be treated as absolute proof of anything in particular.

for the effort tyker.

Thank you

Why only 4 results in Hockenheim?

Q1 was the only dry qualifying session so was only relevant for the drivers in the tail end teams

[Schumacher7]

I dont include wet qualifying sessions


Thank you


Q1 was the only dry qualifying session so was only relevant for the drivers in the tail end teams

Why not? Those are the conditions in which you can see the real skill of a driver.

[BetaVersion]

Why not? Those are the conditions in which you can see the real skill of a driver.

This is what I was talking about these calculations not showing "true picture"

This isn't a bash on the OP, it's just that circunstances plays such a big role in to it that the numbers will, most of the time, be misleading to a significant extent.

It's not a particular bash at you tyker, I just think it's hard to read anything really conclusive into these things ;)

Edited by BetaVersion, 26 July 2012 - 21:45.

[Seanspeed]

This is what I was talking about these calculations not showing "true picture"

This isn't a bash on the OP, it's just that circunstances plays such a big role in to it that the numbers will, most of the time, be misleading to a significant extent.

It's not a particular bash at you tyker, I just think it's hard to read anything really conclusive into these things ;)

Its basically just weighing which decision causes more skewing. Tracks that are drying mean you've gotta be out there at the right time on the right tires. Or maybe a track starts out dry or just damp and then it rains harder? If you didn't get a lap in, then you're out of luck and might find yourself like 10 seconds slower than your teammate or something, which would obviously create a significant skewing of the 'average'.

By not counting them, it does skew things slightly because it doesn't take into account situations where even on a wet track, two teammates had equally viable opportunities to get a good lap in, but its probably the lesser of evils. Plus, even in equal wet conditions, the qualifying times between drivers in the wet are often exaggerated compared to normal. Just look at Q3 in Hockenheim. There was like a 3-5 second gap or something between 1st and 10th in a season where we've become used to having it between .5 and a second and sometimes less.

I think its a fair decision to make. The percentage of qualifying sessions held in the wet are usually quite small over a season, so omitting a few races isn't gonna have a large effect on the end results.

[tyker]

After Hungary (Hungary times)

1. De La Rosa 0.54s (0.262s)
2. Kovalainen 0.45s (0.591s)
3. Maldonaldo 0.41s (0.193s)
4. Ricciardo 0.35s (-0.451s)
5. Hamilton 0.337s (0.63s)
6. Alonso 0.334s (-0.064s)
7. Glock 0.16s (-0.232s)
8. Grosjean 0.13s (0.217s)
9. Rosberg 0.09s (0.357s)
10.Vettel 0.06s (0.308s)
11.Kobayashi 0.04s (-0.405s)
12.Hulkenburg 0.02s (0.16s)

[ZooL]

Hi tyker, I don't know if you can find it but Sky F1 do a qualifying championship table that you might be interested in.

[tyker]

Hi tyker, I don't know if you can find it but Sky F1 do a qualifying championship table that you might be interested in.

Ok i will have a look after the race

[tyker]

After Spa (Spa times)

1. De La Rosa 0.69s (1.959s)
2. Maldonado 0.48s (1.178s)
3. Kovalainen 0.43s (0.228s)
4. Alonso 0.36s (0.549s)
5. Ricciardo 0.3s (-0.189s)
6. Glock 0.26s (1.157s)
7. Hamilton 0.22s (-0.821s)
8. Grosjean 0.08s (-0.333s)
9. Kobayashi 0.05s (0.109s)
10.Rosberg 0.032s (-0.439s)
11.Vettel 0.026s (-0.246s)
12.Hulkenburg 0.004s (-0.126ss)

[tyker]

After Monza (Monza times)

1. De La Rosa 0.61s (-0.188s)
2. Maldonado 0.46s (0.222s)
3. Kovalainen 0.44s (0.505s)
4. Alonso 0.33s (0.072s)
5. Ricciardo 0.29s (0.129s)
6. Glock 0.24s (0.034s)
7. Hamilton 0.21s (0.123s)
8. Grosjean 0.08s (-)
9. Kobayashi 0.06s (0.218s)
10.Vettel 0.035s (0,122s)
11.Rosberg 0.032s (0.025s)
12.Hulkenburg 0.004s (-)

[tyker]

After Singapore (Singapore times)

1. De La Rosa 0.47s (-0.983s)
2. Maldonado 0.45s (0.315s)
3. Kovalainen 0.38s (-0.291s)
4. Alonso 0.37s (0.777s)
5. Ricciardo 0.27s (0.075s)
6. Glock 0.25s (0.392s)
7. Hamilton 0.24s (0.577s)
8. Grosjean 0.14s (0.64s)
9. Vettel 0.09s (0,684s)
10.Di Resta 0.025s (0.308s)
11.Perez 0.022s (0.878s)
12.Rosberg 0.018s (-0.12s)

[tyker]

After Japan (Japan times)

1. De La Rosa 0.54s (1.349s)
2. Maldonado 0.46s (0.571s)
3. Kovalainen 0.41s (0.775s)
4. Alonso 0.37s (0.46s)
5. Ricciardo 0.28s (0.414s)
6. Glock 0.25s (0.216s)
7. Hamilton 0.16s (-0.831s)
8. Grosjean 0.12s (-0.072s)
9. Vettel 0.11s (0.251s)
10.Di Resta 0.02s (-0.045s)
11.Kobayashi 0.007s (0.322s)
12.Rosberg 0.003s (-0.164s)

Edited by tyker, 06 October 2012 - 17:53.

[jjcale]

Thanks

[tyker]

Thanks

Your welcome

[tyker]

After Korea (Korea times)

1. De La Rosa 0.54s (-)
2. Maldonado 0.46s (0.421s)
3. Kovalainen 0.374s (-0.126s)
4. Alonso 0.372s (0.35s)
5. Ricciardo 0.26s (-0.04s)
6. Glock 0.23s (-0.054s)
7. Hamilton 0.18s (0.441s)
8. Vettel 0.09s (-0.074s)
9. Grosjean 0.08s (-0.309s)
10.Rosberg 0.008s (0.075s)
11.Perez 0.004s (0.134s)
12.Di Resta 0.001s (-0.045s)

Edited by tyker, 15 October 2012 - 00:55.

[Zava]

After Abu Dhabi (Abu Dhabi times)

1. De La Rosa 0.54s (-)
2. Maldonado 0.46s (0.421s)
3. Kovalainen 0.374s (-0.126s)
4. Alonso 0.372s (0.35s)
5. Ricciardo 0.26s (-0.04s)
6. Glock 0.23s (-0.054s)
7. Hamilton 0.18s (0.441s)
8. Vettel 0.09s (-0.074s)
9. Grosjean 0.08s (-0.309s)
10.Rosberg 0.008s (0.075s)
11.Perez 0.004s (0.134s)
12.Di Resta 0.001s (-0.045s)

turn the damn delorean off!

[tyker]

turn the damn delorean off!

?????