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#151 fines

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Posted 25 August 2007 - 13:59

Originally posted by HistoricMustang
Here is an interesting one that I discovered on another site. Jungle Park just outside of Indianapolis.

Posted Image

Jungle Park closed in the mid 50s. It had (if you look real close) a 5/8 mile "D" oval, with a 1/4 mile track inside it. The old grandstand is still there. They ran midgets and what were called the "big cars" of the 30s, 40s, and 50s. The big cars were the ones that ran the Indy 500 and in fact several Indy 500 winners ran at Jungle Park.

Henry

Wow, managed to miss that! I have often read about the track and its unusual configuration, always wondering what it would have looked like - looks as interesting as those reports sounded! Thnx for the pic! :)

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#152 erkelly2

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 21:51

After I had stopped drooling at the Birdcage Maserati on the back of the latest issue of Motor Sport, (if I win the lottery before 26 March - I'm having it!) I resolved to read, yet again, Joel Finn's excellent book about those wonderful cars.

In the sections given over to the successes or otherwise of those cars that had been purchased by American drivers, many races were described at tracks all over the United States.

Although I am a self-confessed circuit freak, I must admit that so many circuits mentioned in those pages were unknown to me, I listed them and went to Darren Galpin's fantastic circuit database expecting to see maps of them all.

Imagine my surprise on finding that of 27 circuits I did not know, only 5 were listed by Darren.

So, can anyone suggest a way of finding out what the others looked like? And at the same time, making Darren's site even more complete.

Here is a list of the missing circuits: in no particular order;
Pensacola (Fla); Marlboro (Maryl); Cumberland (Maryl);
Montgomery (NY); Louisville (Ky) (Not the oval shown on Darren's site); Pomona (Cal); Lawrenceville (Ill);
Roosevelt Field (NY); Oaklahoma City; Vaca Valley (?);
Cotati (Cal); Midland (Tex); Mansfield (Lou);
Vineland (NJ); Danville (Vir); Courtland (Al);
Hondo (Tex); Hammond (Lou); Norman (Oak);
Green Valley (Tex); Tucson (Ar); Oakland (Cal);
Santa Barbara (Cal).



#153 erkelly2

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 22:19

Once upon a time I was a regular reader of the Atlas forums, but several years ago there was a change in its format which dropped me from the e-mailing list.

I stumbled on a comment wondering about a race track in Norman, Oklahoma.

YES, there was one road course on the old Naval base property south of the OU campus (not Westheimer Field).

It was run for one weekend as an SCCA regional race.

I won the first race.

It was an exciting and challenging course, and was fun (for me) to drive.

It was also one of the most dangerous tracks.

If you missed the last turn leading onto the main straight and start-finish line, you were guaranteed to have a bad day. There was a drainage ditch, about four feet deep that crossed under the road about fifty yards after the apex of the turn. If you got off the road you could drive head-on into the ditch at very high speed.

The race was held in ~ 1961.

I think the track was more than two miles long. It used the existing streets of the old U.S. Navy base. I have driven in that area several years ago and I could not figure out where the track was. New development probably changed the layout considerably.

My favorite section of the track was a long, high-speed downhill curve which I could take flat-out in third gear in my Morgan EP. I was able to hold a gentle drift through most of the turn, leading into the above mentioned dog-leg corner. Tommy Allen, a local driver with as much experience as I, said that I scared the hell out of him as he watched me drive through it. My only worry was the ditch exiting the turn, so I felt very confident about my pace there. The gearing of my car was just right for that turn, and I was thoroughly happy with the way it worked.

Tom Newcomer, from KC, was near me throughout the race in a different class (GMod?) and he was much farther behind me each time when I reached the end of the turn, but he had more speed on the straight than I, so we switched places several times.

I will see if I can locate the track from aerials in Map Quest.

Rick Kelly
Oklahoma City



#154 fbarrett

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 22:35

Besides Continental Divide Raceways, Colorado also had (or has):

Aspen Raceway: along Woody Creek, 1.1 mile road course, now a private track
La Junta: road course, ex-WWII air force training base, still used by various clubs
High Plains Raceway: excellent new road course, 60 miles east of Denver
Second Creek Raceway: road course, NE of Denver, next door to Rocky Mountain Speedway (now-defunct dirt oval), now closed, near Denver International Airport
Mead: road course on east side of I-25, N of Denver, near Erie, now closed
Pueblo Motorsports Park: road course and drag strip owned by the City of Pueblo, funded by Colorado Lottery, still in use
Pikes Peak International Raceway: near Fountain, on west side of I-25, paved oval and road course, started big but now used only for club events, etc.
Pikes Peak Hillclimb: starts near Manitou Springs, ends atop Pikes Peak
Stapleton Airport: when the old Denver airport closed, part of it was used as a road course, mainly by clubs
Denver Grand Prix (2): downtown street circuit set up for early 1990s CART races plus a later temporary road course at the Pepsi Center
Overland Park: early 1900s Denver horse track (east side of the South Platte River) used for auto racing (Oldfield drove the Blitzen Benz there in the teens), now a golf course
Lakeside Speedway: short paved oval near Sheridan and 44th, part of Lakeside Amusement Park; closed about 20 years ago after a fatal accident, still exists
Englewood Speedway: a paved oval just east of Federal Boulevard in northern Englewood; closed for more than 20 years, no longer exists

Several other hillclimb courses and ovals also exist. The Castle Rock Historical Society includes a small display on the history of Continental Divide, a couple of miles SW of town, on the west side of I-25. Ironically, the land was sold for a residential development that never happened.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 09 February 2011 - 22:37.


#155 RShaw

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 23:35

Centennial Park can also be added as a Colorado auto racing venue. This track was located in Littleton, CO, a suburb south of Denver. It was a 1 mile horse race track, and of course a dirt surface. I understand a number of auto races were held there during the late 1920s and the 1930s. I believe the last auto racing events were AAA "big car" races held in Sept of 1951 and Sept of 1952. The '52 event is remembered for the crash of Johnny Mauro in his Indy Ferrari 375.
The track was located in the area of So. Santa Fe and Belleview Avenues in Littleton, CO.

#156 RA Historian

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 23:55

Scrolling through the four pages of this thread I found a lot of confusion regarding a track in Midland, Texas. Every reference is to Jim Hall's test track, "Rattlesnake Raceway". However, there was another circuit in Midland which predated Hall's track. According to the November, 1959, Road & Track there was a 2.7 mile circuit laid out in Midland Airport Park. It was used for SCCA events in the late '50s, early '60s or thereabouts.
Tom

#157 fbarrett

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:06

Centennial Park can also be added as a Colorado auto racing venue. This track was located in Littleton, CO, a suburb south of Denver. It was a 1 mile horse race track, and of course a dirt surface. I understand a number of auto races were held there during the late 1920s and the 1930s. I believe the last auto racing events were AAA "big car" races held in Sept of 1951 and Sept of 1952. The '52 event is remembered for the crash of Johnny Mauro in his Indy Ferrari 375.
The track was located in the area of So. Santa Fe and Belleview Avenues in Littleton, CO.


RShaw:

Thanks for that info. I recall the place being active as a horse track in the 1970s, but I never knew it hosted auto racing. Now closed, of course, replaced by a second-rate shopping mall. Speaking of Johnny Mauro, do you remember that he died some years ago in an accident which I believe involved him driving the wrong direction on I-70?

Frank

#158 proracer1

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:20

Got the book...A Guide to American Sports Car Racing?

It has a list and drawings of some of the tracks listed.

I will look in the book later today.

Jim

#159 RShaw

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 22:16

RShaw:

Thanks for that info. I recall the place being active as a horse track in the 1970s, but I never knew it hosted auto racing. Now closed, of course, replaced by a second-rate shopping mall. Speaking of Johnny Mauro, do you remember that he died some years ago in an accident which I believe involved him driving the wrong direction on I-70?

Frank


Frank,
I knew he died in '03, but did not know the circumstances surrounding his death. He was 92 when he died, so one can't help but wonder how much that had to do with it. Thanks for the info.
RonS.

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#160 proracer1

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 23:06

Found one that may not be listed....

Santa Barbra 2.5 mile circuit at Goleta Airport....

Jim

#161 RA Historian

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 14:27

Found one that may not be listed....

Santa Barbra 2.5 mile circuit at Goleta Airport....

Jim

Post number one, bottom line...

#162 MNRacer

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 15:55

Here's another obscure one for the historians. Somewhere I have some faded Ektachrome slides my dad took at the sports car races held at Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington, MN back in the early 60's.
The track layout consisted of a section of the stadium parking lot, and a portion of one of the adjoining city streets. He was one of the tech inspectors, and I remember him mentioning that to the organizers
of the event, car count was paramount, so several poorly prepared cars that should have been turned away were allowed to run. Lot's of "backyard specials" with colorful names, El Toro, Blackjack Special, Echidna
and an actual D Jag driven by Don Skogmo among others. I believe Jerry Hansen may have participated as well.

At any rate, the old Met Stadium, with all of it's Vikings, Twins and other historical memories was demolished years ago in the name of progress, for the behemoth "mega mall".


#163 RA Historian

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 16:54

Metropolitan Stadium parking lot, Bloomington, Minn. SCCA Regionals. Feature event winners were:

6-29-62, Don Skogmo, Maserati T-61
7-28-63, Dick Gaard, Echidna

Tom

#164 MNRacer

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 17:34

Thanks Tom, hard to find any real info regarding those events these days. I was there with my dad, but have just very vague memories as I was 6 years old at the time.

#165 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 12:29

Going through some old issues of "Competition Press", I was surprised to read about a United States Sports Car Club meeting at a circuit completely unknown to me, in Henderson, Nevada. The event took place on April 28-29, 1962 and was covered briefly in the May 12 issue, which describes the course as follows:

The site was Henderson International Raceway, a new 2.5-mile circuit that goes down a drag strip, wanders around through the desert, doubles back with a few appropriate wiggles and re-joins the drag strip with 600-ft turn on a 20-degree bank. The banked portion wasn't used since the necessary guard rail was not yet installed. Instead, the course was wisely squeezed down with haybales to keep the cars low and slow. It's not a bad circuit. Or wouldn't be if it was in some more civilized location.


A SCCA regional briefly appears on the schedule for November 9-10, 1963, but nothing as whether it took place. Same goes for a SCCA drivers' school, seemingly originally scheduled for October 5-6, 1963 and then moved to November 16-17.

Googling around a bit, I found there was a dragstrip called Thunderbird Raceway in Henderson from 1958-1964, presumably the same venue. Does anyone know more? Where was the dragstrip exactly? Apparently some of it still exists, as seen here.

#166 ggnagy

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 22:33

Going through some old issues of "Competition Press", I was surprised to read about a United States Sports Car Club meeting at a circuit completely unknown to me, in Henderson, Nevada. The event took place on April 28-29, 1962 and was covered briefly in the May 12 issue, which describes the course as follows:



A SCCA regional briefly appears on the schedule for November 9-10, 1963, but nothing as whether it took place. Same goes for a SCCA drivers' school, seemingly originally scheduled for October 5-6, 1963 and then moved to November 16-17.

Googling around a bit, I found there was a dragstrip called Thunderbird Raceway in Henderson from 1958-1964, presumably the same venue. Does anyone know more? Where was the dragstrip exactly? Apparently some of it still exists, as seen here.


Here it is. Henderson/Thunderbird. I found it through This thread on jalopyjournal Nice Ghost track


#167 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 08:03

Well-spotted, thanks! That must be one of the most obscure and least used of the many US ghost tracks.

#168 Gary Jarlson

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 15:37

Henderson/Thunderbird Raceway was a rather unique facility in that it was owned by the City of Henderson and the track manager was the city parks and recreation director. Based around a drag strip, the road course had a long loop and a short loop. The United States Sports Car Club was made up of former members of SCCA's Los Angeles region after SCCA revoked its charter and turned it over to the California Sports Car Club. Interesting points in the track's history included Don Garlits' making the first 180 mph pass on the West Coast. His car ate the gears in his quick-change rearend and it looked as though he wouldn't be able to make a back-up run until a serviceman from the nearby air base gave Garlits the gears out of his street rod. The track had another moment of glory when its sweeping banked turn onto the straight was used for a crash scene in "Viva Las Vegas."

Beyond the Henderson facility, there are several lost tracks in the Las Vegas area. There was a small, paved banked oval on the grounds of the Last Frontier Hotel. It's where I saw my first race, a midget event, when I was about 5 years old. There was a dirt oval (later paved, I recall) called Craig Road Speedway, which was expanded to include a drag strip/road course. A couple of SCCA regionals were held there. The facility is roughly the site of the current Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Two SCCA races were run in December 1960 and April 1961 on recently expanded portions of McCarran International Airport. More startling, perhaps, was a Cal Club race held just a block from the Strip. The course used city streets--Paradise Valley Road and Desert Inn Road--as well as access and service roads for a defunct horse racing track and the convention center. And, of course, there was Stardust International Raceway which hosted Can-Am, Trans-Am, USRRC and Indy Car events.

#169 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 16:16

Thanks for that, Gary. There's a nice webpage about Craig Road Speedway here, with an aerial that shows what must be the road course. Can you date the SCCA events there?

And what about the road course of Las Vegas Speedrome? I think that was built around the late 1970s or so, correct? Torn down in the 1990s to make way for the new Motor Speedway that today occupies the site.

#170 BobGreen

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 18:58

Barry

I have a program from Cotati somewhere, I think dated 1968, and that may have a circuit map - I'll try to dig it out for you.

Green Valley was used as late as 1984 for Can-Am so it should be possible to find something for that too.

Wasn't Midland the Chaparral test track?

Allen


The Midland, Texas track was owned by Jim and was built as a test facility close to his shop, very narrow and tight. There was one SCCA event held there that resulted in a driver fatality. After that it was used only for testing and may still be there though not used today.

Bob Green

#171 Gary Jarlson

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 21:19

Rod

Thanks for the link to the Craig Road Speedway site. If nothing else, it served to kick my memory back into the right gear. The drag strip/road course I mentioned in connection with Craig Road was actually Las Vegas Speedrome; they were two separate facilities, although they were located near each other. The first SCCA race I mentioned was, as I recall, in late '76 or early '77; the second was in '79. I ran both races but, unfortunately, all of my notes and records, along with the trophies, were lost in a fire. There was also an IMSA event there, including a pro Formula Ford race, probably in '74. Again, I'm sorry for the confusion about Craig Road.

#172 Frank S

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 23:19

There is no Las Vegas (street) road race program in my collection, but I did find this edition of the CSCC Notes from the following December:
Las Vegas Road Race

I worked as flagman at the McCarran April race. The dash plaque - in the outline of a one-armed bandit - is hiding around here somewhere.

#173 Terry Walker

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 01:40

Rattlesnake Raceway

Posted Image



#174 E1pix

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 02:09

Great thread, Guys!

I've long wondered what Rattlesnake Raceway looked like. I knew about it as a young kid in the '60s, true Chaparral legendry for sure. Even then I tried to picture all the under-the-radar developments taking place there, the first race car wing tests I believe, and of course the tests of the 2J must have really been something to see. I can picture the locals asking, "What the Hell's that whiny little motor doin' on the back of that there contraption of yours?"

I was raised near Lynndale Farms in Wisconsin, and likely cried when it closed (I was like 7). Great memories from there as well as Meadowdale when even younger.

As sad as it is to watch these places close, the only thing sadder yet are the tracks that were never built. I'm glad to have witnessed the Glory Days first-hand.

#175 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:21

Thanks for clearing that up, Gary, appreciate it!

#176 Jim Thurman

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 17:48

Thanks for that, Gary. There's a nice webpage about Craig Road Speedway here, with an aerial that shows what must be the road course. Can you date the SCCA events there?

Rob, those are simply the asphalt roads around the pit area, Craig Road Speedway didn't have a road course or drag strip. As he posted, Gary was thinking of the Speedrome. Craig Road Speedway was just west of I-15, the Speedrome east of I-15. They weren't far apart at all.

#177 Gary Jarlson

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 20:06

Jim

Right you are about the two tracks' locations with respect to I-15. But at the time I raced there, that section of I-15 hadn't been built yet and thus the reference point was that both facilities were west of Las Vegas Blvd., the nearest main thoroughfare.

#178 Gary Jarlson

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 21:10

Jim

Here is a link to a map of the original Santa Barbara layout along with (dotted line) with revamped circuit (1962-64). I hope someone else is better at posting images that I seem to be.

http://imageshack.us...594/orig1.jpg/#

#179 E1pix

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 21:22

Gary:

I know it can be weird, but here's what I do:

1 — Click "Reply" to a post on the BB;

2 — With that window open, click "Control-N" (or Command-N on Apple) for a new Browser window and go to http://imageshack.us/ in that second window;

3 — Click "Browse" in ImageShack and locate your file(s) to post here;

4 — Click "Upload Now";

5 — From here, it can be inconsistent and can involve finding end-arounds per whether you're signed in or not.... but if you're signed in on ImageShack you should see several links.... copy the "Direct" link address (if grayed out, sign in);

6 — Go back to your Autosport Reply window, and click on the "Insert Image" button near the top, the 4th button from the right (between the two buttons with "+" symbols on them;

7 — Paste the direct Link address into the window;

8 — Preview your post if desired, and Submit.


Hope this helps.

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#180 Gary Jarlson

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 22:29

E1pix

Thanks for the walk-through. I had read through the Post an Image sticky and my eyes glazed over. Now, everything has worked accodring to your instructions until the point where I paste the Direct Link info into the Reply window. When I preview the reply, the only thing there is the URL.

#181 E1pix

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 22:44

E1pix

Thanks for the walk-through. I had read through the Post an Image sticky and my eyes glazed over. Now, everything has worked accodring to your instructions until the point where I paste the Direct Link info into the Reply window. When I preview the reply, the only thing there is the URL.

Thanks, Gary. It's not perfect I can tell you!

The exact same thing happened to me a couple days ago, 'til I gave up. The next day, it worked perfectly. Can't explain it, but you might try again....

I never had this particular problem with dozens of prior image posts. Must be on ImageShack's end, somehow [emphasis and cluster on somehow]

#182 Jerry Entin

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:14

Posted Image
The first press release on the soon to be constructed Rattlesnake Raceway in Midland, as it appeared in the December 1961 issue of the Odessa-based magazine Sports Car Digest.


After the West Texas Region was founded in 1958, Midland had seen a number of SCCA events, all held at Midland Airpark, where Hap Sharp's airplane hangar served as the site for scrutineering. Feature winners over the years were Danny Collins in 1958 [Ferrari 250TR], Alan Connell in 1959 [Ferrari 335S] and Jim Hall in 1960 [Maserati Tipo 61]. No races were hosted in 1961 and 1962, but in 1961 Sharp, an executive of the West Texas Region, put a syndicate together to build a proper road course south of town.

The original syndicate members were Sharp, Ronnie Hissom, Dave Morgan and Dave Fawcett. After Jim Hall moved from Dallas to Midland in 1961 he joined them. The inaugural race at the new course, named Rattlesnake Raceway, was on May 11-12, 1963. Over the years the track received an unfounded reputation for being "dangerous" due to an incident which took place that weekend and which was not caused by the track layout at all.

In one of the prelims for small production and modified cars original syndicate member Fawcett from Lubbock raced an HM class Bandini. The car lost a wheel and got sideways, blocking the track. The Bandini was T-boned by Don Carter in a Fiat-Abarth and Fawcett suffered severe head injuries from which he would die later that day.

A number of races followed that Sunday, with Sharp winning the feature in his 2.7-liter Cooper Monaco. However, the weekend was a downer for the Region and, perhaps because of liability concerns, no races were ever held at Rattlesnake again. Sharp and Hall proceeded by buying out the other syndicate members to make Rattlesnake their private testing ground.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Edited by Jerry Entin, 02 September 2011 - 01:18.


#183 Frank S

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 02:45

Jim

Here is a link to a map of the original Santa Barbara layout along with (dotted line) with revamped circuit (1962-64). I hope someone else is better at posting images that I seem to be.

http://imageshack.us...594/orig1.jpg/#

Yet another configuration down on this page:
Visit My Santa Barbara Page

#184 Joe Bosworth

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 04:03


I will throw in an odd ball circuit thaat I believe was used only once. Dredging through the detritus of my mind I remember racing at a track at Rintoul Illinois. It was likely to have been in the spring of 1956. The track utilised about 3/4 of a banked speedway and involved leaving the oval at one end for a trip through access roads before re-enterring the oval at the same end.

There wasn´t any heavy weight entries but it was quite well supported none-the-less.

I am 100% certain that it was a once only effort. Anybody else with any memories of this one?

Regards

#185 pdgodwin99

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 03:35

Jerry, since this was my old stomping ground in the 50's and 60's perhaps I can add a bit to the conversation.

I enjoyed seeing the engineering drawing of the Rattlesnake as well as the detailed circumstances surronding it's construction.

As regards the Midland Tx races, I ran the airport race in 1960 and Jim Hall did indeed win the feature. The most unusual aspect of the race was that Meister Brauser (sp.?) had sent one of the Scarabs down to win the trophy which had been dedicated to one of their crew who had died when returning from the race in El Paso's Ascarate Park. Unfortunately they didn't reckon on Jim and his new Tipo 61 and he handily won the event.

After the loss of the Rattlesnake track we went back to the airport and I ran one more race there.

My records show in 1962 I ran a regional at Rattlesnake Raceway, in November I think, as I remember it being incredibly cold. So cold that I had to tow my Alfa to get it started. Jim and Hap let us store the cars overnight in the fenced-in area between their shops but the cold was too much for a little aluminum engine with seven quarts of very thick oil and a very wimpy starter.
Dave Fawcett was at that race and I talked to him but don't remember what car he was driving although it may have been the Osca Bandini. Dave was a good friend from whom I had bought several cars at his dealership in Lubbock. I didn't attend the 1963 race as the Alfa was hors de combat, but after Dave's accident I was just as glad I hadn't gone. You're assessment of the cause of the accident agrees with what the Fiat-Abarth driver told me when he came to my house several days later to ask to rent my trailer to pick up his car. He was still on crutches.

The track was perfect for small cars but I was amazed that it could be used for big iron like the Chaparral. It was very narrow and the soil around the track was so sandy that getting off the track was problematic. In one of my races I was following Aubrey Faulkner in his Porsche Speedster and he drifted off the right edge of the road on the high speed lefthander on the front side.
The Porsche began rolling and one of it's airborne leaps put it back on the track perhaps twenty feet in front and eight feet above me. It was quite a sight with the Porsche's cockpit staring me in the face and Aubrey tenaciously hanging onto the steering wheel. The car finally ended up on the left side of the track and I was pleased to find Aubrey's only injury was a small gouge in the back where his experimental aluminum roll bar had struck him when it came apart. He was still determined that the choice of aluminum was a sound decision since it was the failure of a weld and not a material inadequacy that resulted in the wound.

Although the track was short lived I still remember it fondly and the glass bottomed pewter mug I got as a trophy is one of only two trophies that I kept.

All of these recollections are fair game for correction as my memory banks have more than a few cobwebs, which are long overdue for cleaning out.

As an addendum to the track list may I add:

Garden City, Kansas Airport runways not used, just the roads of what had once been living quarters area
Austin, Tx First of several races run in town around some kind of coliseum then later moved to track which seemed to be a modified drag strip.
Ponca City, OK Very pretty natural road course in a park by a lake and golf course. My favorite.
Alliance Nebraska Airport
Lubbock, TX One race held at the airport
Roswell, NM Bottomless Lakes State Park, very long and fast (8 miles) with turns mostly flat out for small production cars.
Wichita, Kansas Lake Afton natural course by a lake and scenic. One of my favorites
Ft. Sumner, NM One of the earliest defunct airbases used in this area. Long and fast, scene of my most embarrassing crash.
Odessa, TX Penwell, my last race, not very memorable.

Phil Godwin



#186 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 08:49

Thank you, Phil, interesting recollections. That does bring up the question whether there was more than one race at Rattlesnake.

Edit: there was a SCCA divisional in Midland May 5-6, 1962, could that be Phil's event? Or was it held at the airport?


Incidentally, does anyone have the race programme for Sebring 1965? I'd like to know something about one of the support races.

Edited by Rob Semmeling, 03 September 2011 - 08:57.


#187 pdgodwin99

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 14:14

Rob, since the trophy mug doesn't have a date on it, just a tasteful Texas flag logo of the West Texas Region, I dug out my old dash plaques and found one from the race and the dates were November 17 & 18, 1962. It's a confidence builder to find that I still have at least one functioning brain cell. I show a second race at the Airpark in 1963, which may have been a Divisional but this would have been after the final Rattlesnake race.


Phil Godwin

#188 cheapracer

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 16:12

If none's mentioned Lake Garnett then I would like to mention, errr, oh darn forgot the name of it ...

http://www.lakegarne...d_track_map.jpg

Posted Image

Edited by cheapracer, 03 September 2011 - 16:13.


#189 Jerry Entin

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 19:29

Phil: Thanks for your great input
And then there was Longview, where the Texas Region held its Roundup Races on May 1, 1960. A 2.88-mile track was laid out at Gregg County Airport and Jim Hall's Birdcage won the Feature over Hap Sharp's Cooper/Maserati. The location turned out to be unpopular because of the gravelly track surface and frequent interruptions by air traffic. The Region soon found an alternative in nearby Green Valley.

It is entirely possible that an inaugural race was held at Rattlesnake as early as November 1962. No reports have ever surfaced, though, a perennial problem with these small Regionals. We are still trying to figure out what happened at Caddo Mills near Dallas , where a Regional was held on the same February 2-3 weekend as the 1963 Daytona USRRC race. Caddo Mills had not been used since the early 50s, so it is a surprise to see it reactivated that weekend.

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Edited by Jerry Entin, 05 September 2011 - 17:38.


#190 HistoricMustang

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 22:29

Gentlemen,
I am still searching for photographs of cars on track at the "one off" USRRC event at Augusta on March 1, 1964. Numerous photographs have emerged with cars in paddock/pits but none on track. If you have please let me know. In fact, as most know, only two total events were held on the purpose built, high banked, three mile circuit in Augusta. Most of the track still survives today! :wave:

Posted Image



#191 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 05:33

I am still searching for photographs of cars on track at the "one off" USRRC event at Augusta on March 1, 1964. Numerous photographs have emerged with cars in paddock/pits but none on track. If you have please let me know


Do you have the Competition Press report? There are a couple of on track photos by Alice Bixler.

Vince H.


#192 HistoricMustang

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 13:21

Do you have the Competition Press report? There are a couple of on track photos by Alice Bixler.

Vince H.


Vince, I do not.

Our organization (AIRPS) has the ones included in Sportscar Magazine and AutoSports Magzine.

Copies from Competition Press report would be appreciated.

Henry :wave:

#193 lcbulldog

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 14:08

Jerry, since this was my old stomping ground in the 50's and 60's perhaps I can add a bit to the conversation.

I enjoyed seeing the engineering drawing of the Rattlesnake as well as the detailed circumstances surronding it's construction.

As regards the Midland Tx races, I ran the airport race in 1960 and Jim Hall did indeed win the feature. The most unusual aspect of the race was that Meister Brauser (sp.?) had sent one of the Scarabs down to win the trophy which had been dedicated to one of their crew who had died when returning from the race in El Paso's Ascarate Park. Unfortunately they didn't reckon on Jim and his new Tipo 61 and he handily won the event.

After the loss of the Rattlesnake track we went back to the airport and I ran one more race there.

My records show in 1962 I ran a regional at Rattlesnake Raceway, in November I think, as I remember it being incredibly cold. So cold that I had to tow my Alfa to get it started. Jim and Hap let us store the cars overnight in the fenced-in area between their shops but the cold was too much for a little aluminum engine with seven quarts of very thick oil and a very wimpy starter.
Dave Fawcett was at that race and I talked to him but don't remember what car he was driving although it may have been the Osca Bandini. Dave was a good friend from whom I had bought several cars at his dealership in Lubbock. I didn't attend the 1963 race as the Alfa was hors de combat, but after Dave's accident I was just as glad I hadn't gone. You're assessment of the cause of the accident agrees with what the Fiat-Abarth driver told me when he came to my house several days later to ask to rent my trailer to pick up his car. He was still on crutches.

The track was perfect for small cars but I was amazed that it could be used for big iron like the Chaparral. It was very narrow and the soil around the track was so sandy that getting off the track was problematic. In one of my races I was following Aubrey Faulkner in his Porsche Speedster and he drifted off the right edge of the road on the high speed lefthander on the front side.
The Porsche began rolling and one of it's airborne leaps put it back on the track perhaps twenty feet in front and eight feet above me. It was quite a sight with the Porsche's cockpit staring me in the face and Aubrey tenaciously hanging onto the steering wheel. The car finally ended up on the left side of the track and I was pleased to find Aubrey's only injury was a small gouge in the back where his experimental aluminum roll bar had struck him when it came apart. He was still determined that the choice of aluminum was a sound decision since it was the failure of a weld and not a material inadequacy that resulted in the wound.

Although the track was short lived I still remember it fondly and the glass bottomed pewter mug I got as a trophy is one of only two trophies that I kept.

All of these recollections are fair game for correction as my memory banks have more than a few cobwebs, which are long overdue for cleaning out.

As an addendum to the track list may I add:

Garden City, Kansas Airport runways not used, just the roads of what had once been living quarters area
Austin, Tx First of several races run in town around some kind of coliseum then later moved to track which seemed to be a modified drag strip.
Ponca City, OK Very pretty natural road course in a park by a lake and golf course. My favorite.
Alliance Nebraska Airport
Lubbock, TX One race held at the airport
Roswell, NM Bottomless Lakes State Park, very long and fast (8 miles) with turns mostly flat out for small production cars.
Wichita, Kansas Lake Afton natural course by a lake and scenic. One of my favorites
Ft. Sumner, NM One of the earliest defunct airbases used in this area. Long and fast, scene of my most embarrassing crash.
Odessa, TX Penwell, my last race, not very memorable.

Phil Godwin



I attended the SCCA race at Rattlesnake with my folks. Dad and I were members of the PanAm Region Flagging and Communications Team and worked corners at races in the SW (Tucson, Ft. Sumner, Deming, Bottomless Lakes, Juarez, Midland Airpark, and the Las Cruces Airport). Fortunately we were not working the Rattlesnake races because it was so cold and we could get into the car to warm up. We toured the Chaparral shop on Saturday and one of the things I remember most was the Chevy engines sitting on the shop floor. The driver of an Elva MkVI let me warm up the engine while he attended the Sunday morning drivers' meeting; pretty cool stuff for a 15 year old kid! There was a Chevy engined, pontoon fendered Ferrari Testa Rossa. Does anyone remember who the owner and driver were? It still had the original exhaust which gave it a unique sound.
Mark Stevenson

#194 HistoricMustang

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 15:41

Mark, welcome to TNF.

Henry :wave:

#195 Jerry Entin

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 17:26

Mark:
That pontoon-fendered Ferrari with Chevy power may have been the one owned by Willis Murphey of Fort Worth. Willis owned chassis 0724 and in 1962 he raced it at Galveston and Green Valley as well.

From your description it sounds as though you were present at that cold November 1962 event at Rattlesnake, rather than the May 1963 one. Do you remember who the winner was of the feature race?

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Edited by Jerry Entin, 05 September 2011 - 17:39.


#196 lcbulldog

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 23:27

Mark:
That pontoon-fendered Ferrari with Chevy power may have been the one owned by Willis Murphey of Fort Worth. Willis owned chassis 0724 and in 1962 he raced it at Galveston and Green Valley as well.

From your description it sounds as though you were present at that cold November 1962 event at Rattlesnake, rather than the May 1963 one. Do you remember who the winner was of the feature race?

all research: Willem Oosthoek

Jerry,
Sorry but I don't remember who won and I don't have any photos from the event. It was cold and I think we forgot the camera. We also went to a race at Ascarate Lake in El Paso and I don't have any photos from it either! I recall a Tests Rossa going into the lake and the Meister Brau Scarabs that year but again NO PICTURES. I think it was Dick Morgenson's Testa Rossa that took the bath. Saw it again at the race at Las Cruces Airport in '66.

#197 lcbulldog

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 23:31

Mark, welcome to TNF.

Henry :wave:


Thanks, I have been reading the forum for a while and am amazed by the interest and info. Came across the website when I googled CSRA.
Mark

#198 Jerry Entin

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 00:56

Mark:
The Ferrari Testa Rossa that went into the lake at Ascarate Park in El Paso was Alex Budurin's. It happened in October 1960 during the SCCA National and the Ferrari was chassis #0752. The car ended up upside down but Alex was rescued by the crew in a passing boat.

All of it will be covered in Volume 2 of Willem's Southern book, covering 1959 and 1960.

#199 HistoricMustang

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 17:44

Came across the website when I googled CSRA.
Mark


Would that be Central Savannah River Area?

Henry :wave:

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#200 lcbulldog

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 21:29

Would that be Central Savannah River Area?

Henry :wave:


Sorry, no, it is Central States Racing Association. They sanctioned "big car" (i.e. sprint car) racing in the midwest in the '30s and '40s.
Mark