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#8251 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:25

Nah just McLaren fans helping us see the darkness that Ferrari are in. No doubt they will. E piling in to tell us that this was a media lap.


I don't know why they are so happy. According to Benson, McLaren would be lapped by Red Bull come melbourne.

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#8252 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:27

I don't know why they are so happy. According to Benson, McLaren would be lapped by Red Bull come melbourne.

Probably just payback for all the crap we gave them last year in testing. I wish it didn't have to be like this.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 03 March 2012 - 10:28.


#8253 TheBunk

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:28

I don't know why they are so happy. According to Benson, McLaren would be lapped by Red Bull come melbourne.


Dont sound that happy now with that new Red Bull update revealed ;)

#8254 bonjon1979a

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:28

I don't know why they are so happy. According to Benson, McLaren would be lapped by Red Bull come melbourne.


The answer lies in the question!

#8255 currupipi

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:28

No, they planned that exhaust for awhile with probably accurate simulation and cfd work. Whereas Ferrari tries multiple placements without really knowing which one should be better from CFD. Nor have they tried any advanced channeling to the floor. The had the opportunity to try, they saw McLaren do it since the first test

:rotfl: and you know this because you work there

#8256 bonjon1979a

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:29

Dont sound that happy now with that new Red Bull update revealed ;)

I don't know last rb stint showed Ferrari levels of deg  ;)

#8257 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:29

:rotfl: and you know this because you work there


:lol:

#8258 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:29

Too much viagra? :well:


I don´t need it.... :lol:

#8259 NoDivergence

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:33

:lol:


If they had confidence in one solution being superior. They would have used that one and stuck with it. We all know the ACER exhaust wasn't just an interim result. Yes they planned other positions. But they had to have thought the ACER was the best one. You can clearly see the integration aspects

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#8260 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:33

I don´t need it.... :lol:


Then don't ask a stupid question. :)

Edited by xlr8, 03 March 2012 - 10:37.


#8261 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:34

Then don't ask a stupid question.


I think "stupid" is giving far too much credit.

#8262 PoleMan

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:36

No, they planned that exhaust for awhile with probably accurate simulation and cfd work. Whereas Ferrari tries multiple placements without really knowing which one should be better from CFD. Nor have they tried any advanced channeling to the floor. The had the opportunity to try, they saw McLaren do it since the first test

OK. Some call you a Troll, and there is a distinct negative pattern to your posts, but, for the moment, I'll take this seriously.

I agree with you that Red Bull have been analysing data during testing, and believe this is the BEST solution of the MANY solutions they have likely tried. They are a proper team, and also the back to back World Champs, so I have confidence that what they bring is the best compromise for them. McLaren work in this same way I think. The issue for you, is that you seem to think Ferrari are a bunch of Italians with imported Brits, Greeks, Japanese, etc, running around trying to find the right-sized spanner to use while tripping over their tool boxes. :lol: IN YOUR DREAMS!

Ferrari have their own solutions they've been testing, looking for the best compromise for themselves. It seems they've tested more solutions than everyone else (Just from what I've read!), with many tests for individual parts. It's only NOW that they are going to put them all together on the car, and take the car for a spin. TOTALLY different type of testing than they've been used to doing, and it's made it very difficult for others to make a lot of sense of, and easy for rock-throwers (Do you happen to know any??) to take aim at. But I'm CONFIDENT it makes sense to Ferrari, and have FAITH in the Scuderia and the calm resolve they've shown amidst all the insults. In fact, THAT is what gives me the MOST CONFIDENCE!

We'll find out in Melbourne. I hope you'll be watching! :cool:

#8263 InfectedPsy

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:39

I don´t need it.... :lol:


Agreed, the OCD medication is enough.

#8264 NoDivergence

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:44

OK. Some call you a Troll, and there is a distinct negative pattern to your posts, but, for the moment, I'll take this seriously.

I agree with you that Red Bull have been analysing data during testing, and believe this is the BEST solution of the MANY solutions they have likely tried. They are a proper team, and also the back to back World Champs, so I have confidence that what they bring is the best compromise for them. McLaren work in this same way I think. The issue for you, is that you seem to think Ferrari are a bunch of Italians with imported Brits, Greeks, Japanese, etc, running around trying to find the right-sized spanner to use while tripping over their tool boxes. :lol: IN YOUR DREAMS!

Ferrari have their own solutions they've been testing, looking for the best compromise for themselves. It seems they've tested more solutions than everyone else (Just from what I've read!), with many tests for individual parts. It's only NOW that they are going to put them all together on the car, and take the car for a spin. TOTALLY different type of testing than they've been used to doing, and it's made it very difficult for others to make a lot of sense of, and easy for rock-throwers (Do you happen to know any??) to take aim at. But I'm CONFIDENT it makes sense to Ferrari, and have FAITH in the Scuderia and the calm resolve they've shown amidst all the insults. In fact, THAT is what gives me the MOST CONFIDENCE!

We'll find out in Melbourne. I hope you'll be watching! :cool:


Sounds good to me. I do understand that there are different solutions here. Especially as Ferrari has a different radiator configuration. I'm just surprised Ferrari didn't try the channel concept for the outer exhaust

#8265 currupipi

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:45

I don´t need it.... :lol:


thats what they all say :rotfl:


#8266 ferrarijon123

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:48

I'd say that time from Senna pretty much confirms Felipe had quite a bit of fuel left. Unless if Willams are very quick or Ferrari very slow.

#8267 Creepy

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:48

Media lap?? :|


Must admit I giggled. :love:

This reminded me to that twitter from that woman working in Ferrari or from Alonso joking that whenever they are quick in testing or practice people will jump and say it was a media lap.

#8268 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:48

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#8269 Ferrari2183

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:48

I don't know last rb stint showed Ferrari levels of deg ;)

Hey hey. Don't forget the McLaren stint. Lost 2 seconds in 5 laps.

#8270 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:50

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Still using the old FW then.

Damn, I was hoping to see the jet figher wing, ala Sauber and Lotus today. Booo

#8271 currupipi

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:50

Sounds good to me. I do understand that there are different solutions here. Especially as Ferrari has a different radiator configuration. I'm just surprised Ferrari didn't try the channel concept for the outer exhaust


i will agree with you on this one,




#8272 PoleMan

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 10:54

Sounds good to me. I do understand that there are different solutions here. Especially as Ferrari has a different radiator configuration. I'm just surprised Ferrari didn't try the channel concept for the outer exhaust

Who knows if they did or didn't? They've angled the exhausts so much during these tests, seeking a fraction of speed, I certainly couldn't tell you all the permuations they've tried! And I don't think anyone else outside the team can either.

They are going for the solutions they think work best for their TOTAL PACKAGE! I seem to recall a posting on here a few weeks ago that stated Ferrari had a look at other team solutions, and how there was nothing they saw that they hadn't already thought of.

I get it! You hope they fail. I understand. Ferrari are not your team. I think you're in for a SHOCK! (Who knows, maybe I am!).

But I believe, come Melbourne, there will be alot of "tune changing" from the many experts, scribes and forummers who are currently on the record slinging insults at the Scuderia. Perhaps you'll be among them. Just a couple of weeks more to find out.

Edited by PoleMan, 03 March 2012 - 11:00.


#8273 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:00

joseluisf1
  • They are testing another setup and at least one new piece (unspecified) aerodynamics. There are also changes in the management of Pirelli.
  • As soon as you arrive will begin to test the 4 new pieces, one (s) of these "long (s)
  • In principle the pieces should try individually, but due to lack of time, could decide to put them all together

Original tweets

  • Están probando otro setup y al menos una nueva pieza aerodinámica (no especificada). También hay cambios en el manejo de los Pirelli
  • En cuanto lleguen empezarán a probar las 4 nuevas piezas, alguna(s) de ellas 'larga(s)'
  • En principio las piezas se deberían probar individualmente, pero debido a la falta de tiempo, podrían decidir ponerlas todas juntas


#8274 NoDivergence

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:02

I don't hope Ferrari fails. I hope they succeed, "relatively." LOL, aka, behind McLaren, but trouncing Redbull. If McLaren fails, I'm behind Ferrari 100%. If Ferrari fails, than anyone but Redbull. I don't think you're getting at what I was suggesting. I was suggesting usage of a physical channel behind the exhaust like McLaren, Redbull, and Sauber. McLaren showed this a long while back. I'm surprised Ferrari didn't try it out, especially since the plan was to try out a variety of exhausts anyways. Who knows, it could actually work very well for Ferrari's TOTAL PACKAGE

#8275 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:04

joseluisf1

  • They are testing another setup and at least one new piece (unspecified) aerodynamics. There are also changes in the management of Pirelli.
  • As soon as you arrive will begin to test the 4 new pieces, one (s) of these "long (s)
  • In principle the pieces should try individually, but due to lack of time, could decide to put them all together

Original tweets

  • Están probando otro setup y al menos una nueva pieza aerodinámica (no especificada). También hay cambios en el manejo de los Pirelli
  • En cuanto lleguen empezarán a probar las 4 nuevas piezas, alguna(s) de ellas 'larga(s)'
  • En principio las piezas se deberían probar individualmente, pero debido a la falta de tiempo, podrían decidir ponerlas todas juntas


PUT THEM ALL TOGETHER!

#8276 PoleMan

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:09

I don't hope Ferrari fails. I hope they succeed, "relatively." LOL, aka, behind McLaren, but trouncing Redbull. If McLaren fails, I'm behind Ferrari 100%. If Ferrari fails, than anyone but Redbull. I don't think you're getting at what I was suggesting. I was suggesting usage of a physical channel behind the exhaust like McLaren, Redbull, and Sauber. McLaren showed this a long while back. I'm surprised Ferrari didn't try it out, especially since the plan was to try out a variety of exhausts anyways. Who knows, it could actually work very well for Ferrari's TOTAL PACKAGE

Ok. I could have been more precise in saying that maybe they DID try this example on a lap top and it didn't work for them. Maybe they'll be introducing it later today or tomorrow. Who knows??

What I'm SURE OF is Ferrari have a few skilled people at their end of the pit lane, and will use the solutions that work BEST for them.

Good luck to McLaren! Red Bull, too! But most of all Ferrari!! :cool:

I never root AGAINST teams, just for better racing. :up:

#8277 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:10

Can we please get back on topic!

#8278 BalazsF1

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:12

Hey hey. Don't forget the McLaren stint. Lost 2 seconds in 5 laps.


People, that is why I said yesterday:
-we don't know how old those tyres are. Maybe they want to do a race sim in the afternoon and they try to spare some set of tyres.
-we don't know how the driver approaches the stint. Maybe he backs off to hold life in his tyres for the latter part of the certain stint or for other stints.

all in all when you see a big drop, it can be lead to the intention of the driver or the the very bad shape of that tyre. There is only one team which has certainly massive problems with tyres degradation and it is the Mercedes. There may be other teams which has problems with that, but due to the facts mentioned above it is very hard to judge. I have already seen massive degradation from RB and McLaren, as well. You should just check the long stints of Seb and Jenson from last week.

#8279 RedOne

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:13

Anyone know the tyre allocation for Melbourne? :)

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#8280 BalazsF1

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:19

Just have a look at Felipe's last two stint. You can discover the same sample in lap times. They are spookily similiar to each other.

#8281 Ferrari2183

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:19

Let's all go troll the McLaren thread... They are running without the snow plough. Changing something that fundamental to the aero of the car at this stage means they're in trouble. They're also running blue flow vis on the front wing again.  ;)

#8282 walkindude

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:19

Upgrades? :(

#8283 Alarcon

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:19

Q3 Montmeló 2011:

Webber 1:20.981 (pole position)
Lewis 1:21.961 (3º position)
Alonso 1:21.964 (4º position)

Yesterday Alonso did 1:23.447s (softs?) and Fry said that: "Reasonable shape I suppose. You are always going to be happy when you are sitting there half a second a lap quicker than everyone knowing that you have still got 60 kilos of fuel in the car"

However in Montmeló you are 7 tenths faster with 20 kg. of fuel less (De la Rosa said). Following what Fry said yesterday that would mean about 2 seconds faster than 1:23.447... then about 1:21,400. But without fuel... :rolleyes:

Massa today did a 1:22,413 it means supersoft tyres but still less fuel... he also did 1:22,896s with hard tyres (then less fuel).

Edited by Alarcon, 03 March 2012 - 11:24.


#8284 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:24

Anyone know the tyre allocation for Melbourne? :)


Soft and Medium.

#8285 BalazsF1

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:26

Q3 Montmeló 2011:

Webber 1:20.981 (pole position)
Lewis 1:21.961 (3º position)
Alonso 1:21.964 (4º position)

Yesterday Alonso did 1:23.447s (softs?) and Fry said that: "Reasonable shape I suppose. You are always going to be happy when you are sitting there half a second a lap quicker than everyone knowing that you have still got 60 kilos of fuel in the car"

However in Montmeló you are 7 tenths faster with 20 kg. of fuel less (De la Rosa said). Following what Fry said yesterday that would mean about 2 seconds faster than 1:23.447... then about 1:21,400. But without fuel... :rolleyes:

Massa today did a 1:22,413 it means supersoft tyres but still less fuel... he also did 1:22,896s with hard tyres (then less fuel).


What do you want to say with it? I can't see.

#8286 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:28

What do you want to say with it? I can't see.


My question also. Are you saying that other teams are going to thrash us by two seconds as they're already faster, with more fuel or that Ferrari had 60kg of fuel onboard and has the potential to go 2 seconds quicker?

#8287 Alarcon

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:29

What do you want to say with it? I can't see.



I´m trying to predict the Q3 time with the new Ferrari car at Montmeló compared with the last year results:

Following the fuel consumption at the track and what Fry said, i said: 1:21:400. Wich means an improvement from last year (about half a second), but maybe not enough. You can apply that to all the 2012 tracks.

As I said is a prediction, sadly like all the people we can´t know the "real times"... :cry:

Edited by Alarcon, 03 March 2012 - 11:33.


#8288 RedOne

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:29

Soft and Medium.


I was thinking then that maybe Ferrari's race simulation from yesterday is for Australia since Alonso was only on soft and medium. Grosjean looked to be on a simulation more suited for this circuit then Melbourne. That might explain a few things just a thought..

Edited by RedOne, 03 March 2012 - 11:30.


#8289 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:30

Translation correction:

joseluisf1

  • They are testing another setup and at least one new piece (unspecified) of aerodynamics. There are also changes in the management of Pirelli.
  • As soon as you they (the pieces) arrive, they will begin to test the 4 new pieces, one (s) of these "long (s)"
  • In principle the pieces should try individually, but due to lack of time, could decide to put them all together[/b]

Original tweets

  • Están probando otro setup y al menos una nueva pieza aerodinámica (no especificada). También hay cambios en el manejo de los Pirelli
  • En cuanto lleguen empezarán a probar las 4 nuevas piezas, alguna(s) de ellas 'larga(s)'
  • En principio las piezas se deberían probar individualmente, pero debido a la falta de tiempo, podrían decidir ponerlas todas juntas


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 03 March 2012 - 11:37.


#8290 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:34

Q3 Montmeló 2011:

Webber 1:20.981 (pole position)
Lewis 1:21.961 (3º position)
Alonso 1:21.964 (4º position)

Yesterday Alonso did 1:23.447s (softs?) and Fry said that: "Reasonable shape I suppose. You are always going to be happy when you are sitting there half a second a lap quicker than everyone knowing that you have still got 60 kilos of fuel in the car"

However in Montmeló you are 7 tenths faster with 20 kg. of fuel less (De la Rosa said). Following what Fry said yesterday that would mean about 2 seconds faster than 1:23.447... then about 1:21,400. But without fuel... :rolleyes:

Massa today did a 1:22,413 it means supersoft tyres but still less fuel... he also did 1:22,896s with hard tyres (then less fuel).


By your logic Felipe will be able do a 1:20.9 in Q3. Great! :lol:

#8291 bmardini

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:34

What do you want to say with it? I can't see.


Basically that Ferrari have yet to take fuel out of the car and run. Which, if its true, would be great. Question is, how much fuel are they carrying? If 0.7s for every 20kg is to be believed, then yet the Ferrari can do a low 21. Is that enough for pole? I doubt it.

A very important question is whether or not the cars this year will be quicker than last year or not (yes, I know there is a tire component in this question as well). Standard answer is that they've all lost about 1.5s due to EBD, but fairly certain they've clawed a lot of that back already. Have they gotten ahead though? This I doubt. So, Ferrari maybe has produced a car that is quicker than the F150th but is still slower than the RB7/RB8.

Which, is great in my opinion! The car is still not at 100% and its already better than last year's car.

Then again, testing times are meaningless. Conditions, temperatures, etc. I'd bet every driver on the grid could produce a 0.5s better lap if they needed to.

#8292 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:36

Q3 Montmeló 2011:

Webber 1:20.981 (pole position)
Lewis 1:21.961 (3º position)
Alonso 1:21.964 (4º position)

Yesterday Alonso did 1:23.447s (softs?) and Fry said that: "Reasonable shape I suppose. You are always going to be happy when you are sitting there half a second a lap quicker than everyone knowing that you have still got 60 kilos of fuel in the car"

However in Montmeló you are 7 tenths faster with 20 kg. of fuel less (De la Rosa said). Following what Fry said yesterday that would mean about 2 seconds faster than 1:23.447... then about 1:21,400. But without fuel... :rolleyes:

Massa today did a 1:22,413 it means supersoft tyres but still less fuel... he also did 1:22,896s with hard tyres (then less fuel).


Fry did not say they had 60 kg of fuel in the car when Alonso ran. Get some reading comprehension.

#8293 Alarcon

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:36

My question also. Are you saying that other teams are going to thrash us by two seconds as they're already faster, with more fuel or that Ferrari had 60kg of fuel onboard and has the potential to go 2 seconds quicker?



Who compared Ferrari against other teams? I didn´t.

I said it seems Ferrari improved from last season over 1 lap, and by my calculations improved about half a second, however that not means Ferrari will be trash rivals or not. That´s a thing we cannot know until the 18 march.

#8294 revlec

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:36

I´m sorry for the bad shape of the F2012 for my Ferrari mates!

Come on, and Keep the Faith!!! :)


I think, Ferrari(the car) is not slow.
they - may be - are behind now (just like McLaren last year during testing) , but i have no doubt they will have more room in term of developments during the year.

If you remember 2010 testing period, Ferrari was pounding laps like crazy(just like McLaren is doing now) with great lap times. I don't like all the optimism in the McLaren thread, so i think we will find out only in the first races were Ferrari belong.
It's obvious they are focusing now in the areas where they have problems, so to speak, their ultimate pace is yet to be seen.



#8295 xlr8

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:36

I was thinking then that maybe Ferrari's race simulation from yesterday is for Australia since Alonso was only on soft and medium. Grosjean looked to be on a simulation more suited for this circuit then Melbourne. That might explain a few things just a thought..


That's my hunch too.

#8296 BalazsF1

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:37

I´m trying to predict the Q3 time with the new Ferrari car at Montmeló compared with the last year results:

Following the fuel consumption at the track and what Fry said, i said: 1:21:400. Wich means an improvement from last year (about half a second), but maybe not enough. You can apply that to all the 2012 tracks.

As I said is a prediction, sadly like all the people we can´t know the "real times"... :cry:


Jesus Maria! That is a specualtion. :) Are you a fortune-teller? I don't want to bother you, but we don't know how much fuel Ferrari had on borad. According to your logics, Marussia is away from the test, but if and whether... so overall they are two seconds quicker than last year. No, that is pur specualtion.

One thing is for sure:

Strong times set on hard:
Felipe: 1:22.8
Vettel: 1:23.0
Button: 1:23.2
AND Senna: 1:23.2

Senna's times suggests that Vettel and Button should have had reasonable amout of fuel on board.

What amazed me is the time set by Kovalainen: 1:22.6. It was set on supersoft, but even on that it is prettey nice lap time and suggest there would be much more to come from RB and McLaren. But these re pure suggestions.

#8297 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:40

Jesus Maria! That is a specualtion. :) Are you a fortune-teller? I don't want to bother you, but we don't know how much fuel Ferrari had on borad. According to your logics, Marussia is away from the test, but if and whether... so overall they are two seconds quicker than last year. No, that is pur specualtion.

One thing is for sure:

Strong times set on hard:
Felipe: 1:22.8
Vettel: 1:23.0
Button: 1:23.2
AND Senna: 1:23.2

Senna's times suggests that Vettel and Button should have had reasonable amout of fuel on board.

What amazed me is the time set by Kovalainen: 1:22.6. It was set on supersoft, but even on that it is prettey nice lap time and suggest there would be much more to come from RB and McLaren. But these re pure suggestions.


Much more to come from Ferrari too? No? Okay

#8298 revlec

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:43

Much more to come from Ferrari too? No? Okay


That's the thing i don't understand either.
Call me mad, but the team i fear the most this year is Ferrari.

Edited by revlec, 03 March 2012 - 11:44.


#8299 Alarcon

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:43

Jesus Maria! That is a specualtion. :) Are you a fortune-teller? I don't want to bother you, but we don't know how much fuel Ferrari had on borad. According to your logics, Marussia is away from the test, but if and whether... so overall they are two seconds quicker than last year. No, that is pur specualtion.

One thing is for sure:

Strong times set on hard:
Felipe: 1:22.8
Vettel: 1:23.0
Button: 1:23.2
AND Senna: 1:23.2

Senna's times suggests that Vettel and Button should have had reasonable amout of fuel on board.

What amazed me is the time set by Kovalainen: 1:22.6. It was set on supersoft, but even on that it is prettey nice lap time and suggest there would be much more to come from RB and McLaren. But these re pure suggestions.



Of course, I said "I´m trying to predict"... and also I recog. was impossible. :p Maybe the 60kg Fry said doesn´t mean nothing, or maybe yes...


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#8300 BalazsF1

BalazsF1
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  • 1,019 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:44

Much more to come from Ferrari too? No? Okay


You know, Ferrari is my life and passion, but after this miserable start to the season I don't dare to say that. However, you shouldn't have a rich fantasy to find out what I dream of... :)