905 replies to this topic

[Petroltorque]

Reality check. Williams are not leading team. The are a team with a great history in a stae of decline. As has been stated they don't have the luxury of choosing driver experience over money. The did that last year and finished ninth. Gillan is an academic engineer, so they are going to go with telemetry and simulation on setup over driver opinion. At least now with some funding they'll have the means to correct design flaws.

[Francesc]

Envy? LOL . What kind of envy, when I don't support any of 3 possible candidates and I think they all lack speed, but at least Rubens provides good feedback, which will be crucial for Williams this year?

Or maybe you mean envy in context that I won't be Williams driver ?

How do you know that Senna doesn't give good feedback? Have you been his race engineer or something like that?

Anyway, 2012 was always going to be a transition year, so better have money to build the future than having Barrichello, a guy who I remind you said just before 2011 season started that the FW33 was much better than the FW32 lol.

[MirNyet]

Well, personally, I would like to see Senna get the drive. Rubens has had 19 years to do the job and while he is obviously a lovely chap, he is past it and is simply holding on to something that has gone. Lets see what Senna can do given a proper season, and a car that is not a bag of bits before we hammer him

[Tract1on]

Exactly.... some real halfwits on here

Really happy to hear this news, will be rooting for Bruno and Williams next year
A little sad for Rubens, lovely bloke, but he has had a great career.

Gp2 champion and gp2 runner up?

Edited by Tract1on, 16 January 2012 - 20:03.

[Szoelloe]

http://www.racer.com...article/216728/

this is not a bad read, seems quite balanced to me. I seem to remember Ross Brawn saying he has potential too.

[glorius&victorius]

I find Bruno a likeable chap, his uncle was God to me..... on the one hand I feel glad for him but on the other... this is a sad day too if true... Williams choosing its driver line up for money rather than driver's skills. Is like something just died when I heard this.

I hope Bruno turns out not what many people think of him.. I hope that really inside him lies a hidden gem of being able to race races consistently.

His qualifying speed was there in 2011. His handling of extreme pressure too.
Hopefully he can quickly get up to speed and consistent.

I remember a certain Mark Webber in Williams qualifying very well but his races sucked. Maybe it is not all lost....

My prayers are for Williams that they have a good year... somehow..

[blackhand2010]

As I just posted in the Williams thread...

Tis a sad time if true.
Williams were the team that I routed for when I first started watching F1 in '95, and I'd still love to see them do well.
Sadly, post BMW there just seems to have been wrong turn after wrong turn.
I hate to use the cliched Tyrrell analogy, however on paper, if they take Senna, Williams will be the only team, that I can think of, to take both their drivers because of commercial considerations. Kinda like Tyrell in '98...
Even all three of the "new" teams seem to have one driver, at least, there on merit (or experience, if not speed) and not the size of their wallet.

I really hope the engineers pull it out of the bag with car, cos if not, the most we're going to see of the Williams cars is when they're been lapped, or when they crash.

[abulafiaF1]

I guess the bottom line is, is Rubens worth 16 million dollars? Because that's how much Williams would have to relinquish to get his services.

And I am not so sure the answer to that is yes.

[KoezhVukotic]

Said by who?

Various people who have worked with him, notably Renault as shown in the link provided by Szoelloe.
" But technically he's very good. He's getting to know the tires and how they react in the race as well.”

So what's the bottom line? Senna is a rapid driver and he's also intelligent, which explains his improving technical skills"

[Mastah]

yes, you can go ahead to laugh. is your best contribution to the forum.

You would contribute to the forum by answering this question: Why I am supposedly envy about Williams signing Bruno? Don't avoid it, just answer it, because honestly I have no idea why I should feel envy.

How do you know that Senna doesn't give good feedback? Have you been his race engineer or something like that?

I didn't say he doesn't. I said Rubens does and it will be crucial this year. From Autosport mag:

Barrichello impressed the incoming technical team – Gillan in particular – in the second half of last season and would provide the technical feedback to allow Williams to quickly develop a very different car to its 2011 machine. Barrichello’s ability to work with engine maps, highlighted by his former team boss Ross Brawn, will further his cause. Williams switches from Cosworth to Renault powerplants this year and will spend the early stages of testing adapting to the engine.

If you want to believe Bruno can provide similar feedback, good for you. And I'm not sure BS can help Pastor the same way Rubens was doing, with set-ups:

"Unfortunately, the car is not competitive but, to have Rubens as a teammate, for me, is great because he has helped me with everything. He's an incredibly talented driver and is still so incredibly motivated. He's helped me to improve my time and technique out there."

http://www.onestopst...s teammate.html

[Clatter]

Various people who have worked with him, notably Renault as shown in the link provided by Szoelloe.
" But technically he's very good. He's getting to know the tires and how they react in the race as well.”

So what's the bottom line? Senna is a rapid driver and he's also intelligent, which explains his improving technical skills"

And yet despite these various people saying this, the teams he has driven for didn't think enough of him to offer a contract. That seems rather telling.

[DanardiF1]

It does remind me of Tyrrell of 1998 with Rosset and Takagi, when the decline of a once-great team was finally complete, but we can only know at the first race whether the car is any good to start with.

I don't think you can compare Rosset with either of Williams current drivers. He was truly awful. Takagi was a typical Japanese driver, had a bit of speed, but very erratic.

[Szoelloe]

And yet despite these various people saying this, the teams he has driven for didn't think enough of him to offer a contract. That seems rather telling.

I don't think it is so clear cut as you put it. I would not have chosen him over RB(if this is true at all, that is), but would have kept him over RG in Renault without a blink. If it is indeed true, than it's about cash, which I have to admit, disturbs me.

[KoezhVukotic]

And yet despite these various people saying this, the teams he has driven for didn't think enough of him to offer a contract. That seems rather telling.

Well it was hardly surprising Brawn went with RB over Senna given lack of testing and the rush job they had made of the car at the end, despite the team being very impressed with him after his test. With Renault it was rumoured that they went with Grosjean partly because if they hadn't taken him they would have lost Total backing so if that is the case it was financial reasons rather than purely (if at all) performance. Renault had said several times they were happy with him after all, particularly how he had re-energized them or whatever it was they said

[Zippel]

I don't think you can compare Rosset with either of Williams current drivers. He was truly awful. Takagi was a typical Japanese driver, had a bit of speed, but very erratic.

Also Ken Tyrrell wanted Verstappen instead of Rosset but as Craig Pollock had bought the team by then and had control his decision was the final one. And so Mr Tyrrell promptly left not seeing out his team's final year...

[noikeee]

If this is confirmed, it's a truly bizarre lineup. I suppose it's great, great value for money, yet at the same time one of the weakest in the grid and surely one of the weakest in Williams' history?

This is Bruno Senna's all or nothing chance. He'll need to do better than at Renault and HRT to impose himself on the grid as something more than a brand name. I'm a little suspicious, but the jury's still out on him... Maldonado is also going to be far tougher to beat than many people are giving him credit for. My hunch is Pastor will come out on top but it's going to be close.

[PoleMan]

If this is confirmed, it's a truly bizarre lineup. I suppose it's great, great value for money, yet at the same time one of the weakest in the grid and surely one of the weakest in Williams' history?

This is Bruno Senna's all or nothing chance. He'll need to do better than at Renault and HRT to impose himself on the grid as something more than a brand name. I'm a little suspicious, but the jury's still out on him... Maldonado is also going to be far tougher to beat than many people are giving him credit for. My hunch is Pastor will come out on top but it's going to be close.

The weakest driver combination in Williams history was their pairing last year that included the very experienced Rubens. His feedback. His experience. And that's what they got. Not slagging off Rubens. I've rather enjoyed watching him race since he first arrived in F1 and seemed like the second coming (of Senna). Turned out that wasn't to be, but he's had an fine career nonetheless. I agree with you on Maldonado. Some call him a pay driver. I call him GP2 Champion, who had a decent rookie season in a poor Williams. He and Senna lack experience, but will certainly have bravery and determination. Good luck to both of them.

[Longtimefan]

Crazy decision, if this is true its the end of Williams.

[Tract1on]

Seems pretty conclusive now:

F1_Prof Bumped into an extremely happy Chris Goodwin – aka manager of Bruno Senna – at Gatwick. #buthislipsweresealed #F1 #Senna #Williams

I for one am really happy to see Bruno get a proper chance...

[joora]

Crazy decision, if this is true its the end of Williams.

whats with all the doomsaying?

even if they take van der garde it would be hardly the end for williams. They have their calculations, and if they take bruno, atleast they won't be forced to cut corners in car development. I'm sure Rubens feedback is majestic like you all claim it to be, nut he is old and lacked motivation in 2011. Pastor could be surprisingly good thos season if he can keep his head cool, and Bruno will be motivated to stand out and keep his place in f1.

So, I suggest thaat we wait for atleast couple of races before jumping to conclusions.

[DanardiF1]

I'm happy to see Bruno get his chance as well... the way people here are talking it's like they've just signed Yuji Ide or Chanoch Nissany, not someone who with a truncated racing background took himself to F1 in 7 years! And not just based on his name either, he's performed at every level and has adapted to racing with drivers around him who have had 10 years plus extra racing experience over him.

And when you at the lineup on paper, how is it any worse to what Sauber have for example? Perez (If Mastah isn't sure who he is, I mean Mendoza) is talented yes but brings money with him, and Kamui on his GP2 results was average at best, but look at how praised they both are. The Williams pair are GP2 champion and runner-up...

Maldonado I don't particularly rate, but showed some decent flashes last year when he wasn't putting it in the wall, certainly more flashes than Barrichello who for me was driving as morosely as his 2007 year at Honda. Senna when at HRT was massively quicker than the journo's favourite Chandhok, and then when stuck in the underperforming Renault last year was expected to match the full-time Petrov, and did, outperforming him when the car was in better shape. When the car was difficult Petrov's experience with it only brought to match Senna...

Give him a proper testing program for a change, time to get used to the team and car, and we'll see some good things from Bruno, and a lot less crashes than the good Pastor...

Edited by DanardiF1, 16 January 2012 - 23:55.

[FenderJaguar]

It will be strange to see that helmet and Senna name at Williams if this is true. However I agree that Bruno still hasn't had a fair chance at F1. It's very difficult to say anything about how good he is.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 17 January 2012 - 00:08.

[DanardiF1]

It will be strange to see that helmet and Senna name at Williams if this is true. However I agree that Bruno still hasn't had a fair chance at F1. It's very difficult to say anything about how good he is.

It will be very spooky, especially if they keep that retro livery... let's hope Bruno can pick up where Ayrton left off.

[Disgrace]

Bumped into an extremely happy Chris Goodwin – aka manager of Bruno Senna – at Gatwick. #buthislipsweresealed #F1 #Senna #Williams

[ACooperF1]

Barrichello and Senna would have been a decent line up, but Senna and Maldonado is a stupid decision by Williams, can't see Maldonado leading a team.

[seltaeb]

Barrichello and Senna would have been a decent line up, but Senna and Maldonado is a stupid decision by Williams, can't see Maldonado leading a team.

+1. I hate Venezuela.

Barrichello/Senna would have been really cool, actually. I hope Caterham beats Pastor and Bruno if this is true.

[Mauseri]

+1. I hate Venezuela.

Barrichello/Senna would have been really cool, actually. I hope Caterham beats Pastor and Bruno if this is true.

Barrichello lost his seat Because he did not dominate Maldonado the way he should have been. From the team point of view it's understandable to change driver before he loses the speed what is remaining.

I would have preferred someone else than senna though, but it's ok if he gets a proper chance, eventhough I don't think he will be a success in F1.

[seltaeb]

It will be a shame if Rubens' career ended in the FW33.

[ClubmanGT]

I would say that with Williams in their current state, he isn't really getting a chance either. Still, at least he will get a pre-season test schedule under his belt first, it's worth remembering we've never seen him with actual preparation before.

[Pilla]

I would say that with Williams in their current state, he isn't really getting a chance either. Still, at least he will get a pre-season test schedule under his belt first, it's worth remembering we've never seen him with actual preparation before.

Well he is getting a chance, Williams, even with the upheaval in their technical department, are a professional and well prepared team.

[Nustang70]

+1. I hate Venezuela.

Barrichello/Senna would have been really cool, actually. I hope Caterham beats Pastor and Bruno if this is true.

You hate an entire country?

[seltaeb]

You hate an entire country?

Yes, it's their fault Pastor has funding!

[DanardiF1]

Yes, it's their fault Pastor has funding!

It's a fair point, state money has also inflicted EJ Viso AND Milka Duno on the motorsport world...

[Nustang70]

It's a fair point, state money has also inflicted EJ Viso AND Milka Duno on the motorsport world...

Maldonado and Viso can't be spoken of in the same breath as Milka Duno. They've both achieved success in motorsport.

[DanardiF1]

Maldonado and Viso can't be spoken of in the same breath as Milka Duno. They've both achieved success in motorsport.

I know, but they are all fond of crashing.

[seahawk]

Not a bad move. Both driver will perform, even if Williams builts another bad car, while Rubens showed in 2011 that his motivation drops, if the car is bad. The were no other good options apart from Senna imho.

Algesuari might have been one, but I doubt his is so much better that giving up the money Williams gets from Senna makes sense.
Sutil, well he has been a paydriver his whole carreer and with the criminal charges he faces and lackluster performance he is no option.
Petrov was matched by Senna when Senna joined the team midseason.

[Hans V]

As a die hard Williams fan the thought of two drivers chosen for money rather than talent is sad. However, Williams is still very ambitious and probably see 2012 as a transition year, where restructuring and investing in engineering is key. It it's not like these two are completly talentless and if they both bring loads of money that Williams can pour into the engineering side, the overall results might be better than paying a slightly faster driver. The best thing would of course have been Kimi + money from QuatarBruno. Senna has had a very steep learning curve and the team would not have been chosen him if they didn't see potential in him. Results are mainly down to the car. Vettel would have been nowhere in last years Williams, while Bruno Senna would have scorded podiums and possibly a win or two in last years RedBull. I chose to look at this posetively at this, and it's worth remembering that Williams has always spend the money on the cars rather than drivers.

[Mastah]

Senna when at HRT was massively quicker than the journo's favourite Chandhok, and then when stuck in the underperforming Renault last year was expected to match the full-time Petrov, and did, outperforming him when the car was in better shape. When the car was difficult Petrov's experience with it only brought to match Senna...

Bruno wasn't massively quicker than hopeless Yamamoto, and you are saying he was super quick compared to Karun, while in reality they were matched? Also he didin't match VitPet, let alone outperform him. Why are you re-writing history?

[ivand911]

It will be strange to see that helmet and Senna name at Williams if this is true. However I agree that Bruno still hasn't had a fair chance at F1. It's very difficult to say anything about how good he is.

BS. He have much better chances than many other drivers and he didn't use it. Stop the excuses. It is his problem when he started and that he didn't achieve nothing yet. His problem. I can't imagine why any team will sign him???? Williams will sign him for the money and the guilt about his uncle. Test him with Nick Heidfeld and Nick will sweep the floor with him.

Edited by ivand911, 17 January 2012 - 07:30.

[KoezhVukotic]

Bruno wasn't massively quicker than hopeless Yamamoto, and you are saying he was super quick compared to Karun, while in reality they were matched? Also he didin't match VitPet, let alone outperform him. Why are you re-writing history?

Why are you re-writing history? Qualifying was 4-3 in Petrov's favour and when you bear in mind how little experience Senna had with the car that is a good showing and he can be said to have matched him in terms of pace

[ivand911]

Why are you re-writing history? Qualifying was 4-3 in Petrov's favour and when you bear in mind how little experience Senna had with the car that is a good showing and he can be said to have matched him in terms of pace

Yeah , I almost believe you. It is 4:3 if you only look at the statistic ,but don't really see what is behind it! Japan was not clear point for Bruno, Petrov was faster there. Bruno finish ahead only because of his car number, with them both not recording lap time in Q3. Give Bruno some development work and to give his seat in some FP(for third driver) and you will see how good his Qualy is.

Edited by ivand911, 17 January 2012 - 09:57.

[Peat]

As an ex senior Williams man said to me last winter - 'When you take your eye off of the objective of winning and go for the money (Maldonado), it just becomes a slow, creeping death'.

This certainly seems to be playing out.

Fair point on Bruno's lack of preparation. 2 half season's with zero testing and he showed some impressive flashes last year. If he get's the gig and a full winter program i expect him to crush Pastor.

[FenderJaguar]

BS. He have much better chances than many other drivers and he didn't use it. Stop the excuses. It is his problem when he started and that he didn't achieve nothing yet. His problem. I can't imagine why any team will sign him???? Williams will sign him for the money and the guilt about his uncle. Test him with Nick Heidfeld and Nick will sweep the floor with him.

No he hasn't had any good chances. HRT in it's first year was nothing and jumping into the Lotus at Spa when Heidfeld had been painfully slow compared to Petrov in quali all year was difficult. I am not convinced that Bruno is the best choice for Williams but at least he is there and has worked for it.

[ivand911]

No he hasn't had any good chances. HRT in it's first year was nothing and jumping into the Lotus at Spa when Heidfeld had been painfully slow compared to Petrov in quali all year was difficult. I am not convinced that Bruno is the best choice for Williams but at least he is there and has worked for it.

Did they make him jump in NH car? I don't like somebody saying now that it was mistake. It was opportunity and he didn't show much promise. I know it was mistake back then when they replaced NH with BSenna. Now it is to late for admitting it was mistake. It almost cost the stupid team their 5th place.
At least he could smash his HRT team mates? NH score 34 points for the team, I don't care was he or not slow in Q. You don't get points for Q. Get that. You can start 18 and still score points(I think NH did that).

About 2 half seasons? He have 26 races behind him, if I have not mistaken? More than 2 half season if you ask me.

Edited by ivand911, 17 January 2012 - 10:18.

[cska]

good news
williams
obviously bruno has something to prove this year. and i'm sure he will

[ivand911]

good news
williams
obviously bruno has something to prove this year. and i'm sure he will

Радвам се за теб(I am happy for you).

Edited by ivand911, 17 January 2012 - 10:23.

[FTATRWeSaluteYou]

Bruno announcement imminent

[saudoso]

As an ex senior Williams man said to me last winter - 'When you take your eye off of the objective of winning and go for the money (Maldonado), it just becomes a slow, creeping death'.

This certainly seems to be playing out.

Fair point on Bruno's lack of preparation. 2 half season's with zero testing and he showed some impressive flashes last year. If he get's the gig and a full winter program i expect him to crush Pastor.

Guess that trend is long - since they can't win for what, 8 years?

[Francesc]

Imminent? 2 or 3 hours?

I think it will be around 16 o'clock or so, Williams always release press notes at this time of the day.