4015 replies to this topic

[Fubaaarrr]

In Q3, you have 10 minutes to make your lap. If go out at the end, you take the risk of yellow and red flags and not making time at all. Everyone had 8 minutes before Kimis spin to make time.

As for race, you just cant push cars out of track. Racing incident as far as I go, if somebody needs to be blamed its Alonso. I like how everybody says that Alonsons mistake is misfortune or bad luck.

[xman]

He did not do that today.

Get your red-coloured goggles out for a second and rewatch the start. If you can't see that Alonso was at fault there you probably didn't blame Grosjean at Spa either?

[Skinnyguy]

He did not do that today.

You imply it was a big mistake then? It wasn't, you're wrong.

[Mr.Wayne]

Except a quick enough car!

Alonso disagrees with you:

On Sundays we don't feel less strong than other teams. Maybe we lack a little bit of performance over a single lap, but on Sunday I think our team has nothing to fear from anyone.

So, MAYBE they are not the best on qualy, but their car, on race day (which is when the points are awarded btw), they have nothing to fear from anyone.

His words.

[Skinnyguy]

I like how everybody says that Alonsons mistake is misfortune or bad luck.

It was a mistake, but you must admit it was unlucky. How often a contact that light ends your race?

[ViMaMo]

Alonso has everything at Ferrari. Clear No:1 status, a second driver that has been neutered for his benefit and occasionally used as a toe to try and get him extra speed in quali. Ferrari also appear to be burning bridges with other talented drivers as they view Nando to be the best of the lot and therefore worth all this extra privileges.

No chance for a WCC and the WDC looking like it's choking away - what do you have?

As I said, all is not lost and he can still win the WDC, but if he doesn't who will they fire this time? LdM?

Oh, you are a Massa fan?

6 races and no decent updates while Mclaren and Red Bull are finding loopholes, making their cars faster. While Ferrari have shut their own wind tunnel and using Toyota's.

Which race did Fernando get a tow? It was Massa who got the tow. I think Alonso leading the championship is choking you.

[emby1999]

Get your red-coloured goggles out for a second and rewatch the start. If you can't see that Alonso was at fault there you probably didn't blame Grosjean at Spa either?

Alonso moved 2 inches, while Grosjean moved a few car widths, with a large part of Hamiltons car alongside.


For anyone blaming Alonso, please explain what he should have done.

[ViMaMo]

And it is about this time that you remember Monza...

Alright, they were not at Monza and neither was Ferrari.

[Atreiu]

Alonso must be out of his mind today, saying Felipe was lucky others got into trouble. Hasnt that happened to him nearly every race this season?

[xman]

Alonso moved 2 inches, while Grosjean moved a few car widths, with a large part of Hamiltons car alongside.

For anyone blaming Alonso, please explain what he should have done.

2 inches? You might also need to have your vision checked up. What Alonso should have done is that he should have given enough room for Kimi and not push him out of the track.
In that way he'd still be leading championship by a large margin, Ferrari was a really fast car today as Massa proved.

[Motorbreath]

Alonso must be out of his mind today, saying Felipe was lucky others got into trouble. Hasnt that happened to him nearly every race this season?

You are a little troublemaker arent you? He said that Felipe drove a fantastic race he even tweeted "Gran carrera de @Felipe1Massa !! Fantástico podio! Great race by @Felipe1Massa !! Fantastic podium!".
He just said that the car isnt fast enough and that Massa got the podium because of other people like Webber, Grosjean and Perez crashing.

This forum makes me at the amount of trolls.

[choyothe]

It was a mistake, but you must admit it was unlucky. How often a contact that light ends your race?

FW to rear tyre contact results in a puncture very often.

[tommi34]

Alonso moved 2 inches, while Grosjean moved a few car widths, with a large part of Hamiltons car alongside.


For anyone blaming Alonso, please explain what he should have done.

Have you even seen the replay?

[teejay]

Alonso has been awesome at picking up points at others misfortune this year.

At some point the run was going to run out.

[Motorbreath]

Alonso has been awesome at picking up points at others misfortune this year.

At some point the run was going to run out.

So? Your point is? Why are you posting this? Red Bull is gonna win this one because they have the best car and the best technical team, McLaren is a lost team now without motivation. But this is off topic to this thread.

[mardmarium]

Alonso, the best driver in F1, is choking.

He had a huge lead and a reasonably quick Ferrari yet he has somehow managed to get himself in a position 4 points ahead of Vettel.

If he doesn't win the WDC in 2012 one really has to question Ferrari's faith in the guy. One man team and all that - no room for Lewis, Vettel, Perez or any one that will challenge Alonso when the guy can't close down a WDC.

All is not lost I guess, but he must now prove his worth - he must!

Hasn´t Alonso proven his worth yet? the truth is that he shouldn´t be where he is/was before this race, that´s the painful truth.

Alonso hasn´t managed to get himself in a position 4 points ahead of Vettel, that´s a completely biased conclusion. What has happened is a natural consequence of: RBR having an outstanding car during the last races, Ferrari failing to develope the car like others have done and Alonso fighting from bad starting positions because his car is not fast enough in qualy.

It was a race indicent and you are more exposed to it starting from P6 than starting from P1, as simple as that.

I mainly support Ferrari, but I can´t deny what I see. If this year Ferrari loses the WDC (what seems very probable at the moment) it won´t be Alonso´s fault... I can´t figure out how anybody with minimum objectivity can blame him

[showtime]

You are a little troublemaker arent you? He said that Felipe drove a fantastic race he even tweeted "Gran carrera de @Felipe1Massa !! Fantástico podio! Great race by @Felipe1Massa !! Fantastic podium!".
He just said that the car isnt fast enough and that Massa got the podium because of other people like Webber, Grosjean and Perez crashing.

This forum makes me at the amount of trolls.

Indeed, the amount of people trying to twist words and taking quotes out of the context just to have something to throw at him is just incredible.

[Kvothe]

Hasn´t Alonso proven his worth yet? the truth is that he shouldn´t be where he is/was before this race, that´s the painful truth.

Alonso hasn´t managed to get himself in a position 4 points ahead of Vettel, that´s a completely biased conclusion. What has happened is a natural consequence of: RBR having an outstanding car during the last races, Ferrari failing to develope the car like others have done and Alonso fighting from bad starting positions because his car is not fast enough in qualy.

It was a race indicent and you are more exposed to it starting from P6 than starting from P1, as simple as that.

I mainly support Ferrari, but I can´t deny what I see. If this year Ferrari loses the WDC (what seems very probable at the moment) it won´t be Alonso´s fault... I can´t figure out how anybody with minimum objectivity can blame him

Well isn't he supposed to be the master of the percentage game?

If he loses the WDC by 18 points or less (what he might have got had he not retired), I wonder if he will rue that move?

[Fontainebleau]

Alonso must be out of his mind today, saying Felipe was lucky others got into trouble. Hasnt that happened to him nearly every race this season?

And if you are of the opinion that it has happened to him every race this season, could you please enlighten us about what is so wrong about Alonso's words?

Some people are really clutching at straws in their attempt to diss Alonso... If only for them, I'd love it for him to finally win this WDC!

[Kraze]

I am pretty sure Alonso would have already bitched about Kimi to FIA if he thought it was Kimi's fault. (like he did to Vettel in Monza and got him punished for a simple racing incident)

I guess this time he knows he made a mistake and using Kimi name to conceal his own fault.

[as65p]

You know, these incidents happen all the time. But when they involve top driver - everyone is trying to stick the blame. In any case, normal starting race incident with no one to blame.

This.

[Hanzo]

Well isn't he supposed to be the master of the percentage game?

Is not Lewis supposed to be the fastest driver out there? What happened today then? These things happen.
The percentage master is still leading the championship.

[P123]

I guess this time he knows he made a mistake and using Kimi name to conceal his own fault.

I didn't see a mistake. Just a normal first corner incident. Very marginal, but 9/10 he would have been ok. This time it was an instant puncture.

[Kraze]

I didn't see a mistake. Just a normal first corner incident. Very marginal, but 9/10 he would have been ok. This time it was an instant puncture.

You're right, it was a racing incident. But Alonso blaming Kimi (who was on the outside all the time) for his own mistake is ridiculous and vey typical of Alonso.

[Skinnyguy]

Alonso didnt push Kimi on purpose, unlike in Monza with PDR. I think simply his attention was in front.

[KnucklesAgain]

You're right, it was a racing incident. But Alonso blaming Kimi (who was on the outside all the time) for his own mistake is ridiculous and vey typical of Alonso.

Good then that he didn't "blame" Kimi. He just said that he had no place to go because he had Button on the right and wonders why Kimi didn't lift or what Kimi's plans for T1 were. Which is plain correct, the situation was never going to end well, and lifiting would have been the smart thing to do. He was not obligated though, and Alonso did not claim that he was. No blaming, not nothing. Racing incident, move on.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 07 October 2012 - 09:25.

[thechin]

Well isn't he supposed to be the master of the percentage game?

If he loses the WDC by 18 points or less (what he might have got had he not retired), I wonder if he will rue that move?

Can't really account for someone driving into your rear tyre. Fair enough if Kimi was gaining, but he was dropping back, not sure where he thought he was going. Not a massive mistake from Kimi, I'd put it down as a racing incident but those with more racing intelligence would know when to drop in line and fight further round the lap.

[jk]

Alonso should just have gone straight and he would have been fine. He was ahead of Button though on the outside, and although Button was moving slightly left there was always plenty of room for Alonso. Instead he moved into Kimis path, while they were still partly alongside. Alonso came from the right side of the road and ended up on the white line to the left. When you cross the entire track you better make sure somebody is not coming up on the outside.
What Alonso did was very similar to Grosjean at Spa. Only Grosjean was on the inside while Alonso was on the outside. Which meant that when Grosjean lost control he plowed straight into the field. Alonso instead went into the runoff area, and was lucky everybody missed him.

Alonso made a small misjudgement here, as Grosjean did at Spa. At Spa Hamilton as Kimi today could see it coming and have avoided it, but was not obliged to being bullied. I was surprised Grosjean was punished as harshly as he did at Spa, but if that is the line FIA is taking I am surprised Alonso was not even investigated.
Their mistakes were similar, though the consequnces different. However I beleive drivers should be punished for their actions and not the effect.

I fail to see what was so different about the incidents that Grosjean got a ban and Alonso (in his own mind) was innocent.

[smoothcrim]

Did they touch?Hard to see from this video but it looks like Alonso was badly postioned and he was going to lose many places anyway.

[showtime]

Did they touch?Hard to see from this video but it looks like Alonso was badly postioned and he was going to lose many places anyway.

Are you asking for real? Kimi even lost part of his front wing FFS.

[Will]

This.

I will remember your stance if/when Lewis is involved in another incident

[smoothcrim]

Are you asking for real? Kimi even lost part of his front wing FFS.

Sorry i havent seen all the footage,can someone link me?




ok there it is,i blame raikonnen for sticking his nose where it doesnt belong.

Edited by smoothcrim, 07 October 2012 - 09:53.

[LiJu914]

If i´d consider this incident being ALO´s fault, i wonder what was the last time he threw a race away?


Tells us a lot about Fernandos class, no matter if he was 0%, 50% or 100% at fault today.

[Kvothe]

Can't really account for someone driving into your rear tyre. Fair enough if Kimi was gaining, but he was dropping back, not sure where he thought he was going. Not a massive mistake from Kimi, I'd put it down as a racing incident but those with more racing intelligence would know when to drop in line and fight further round the lap.

Watch this video:



Alonso almost seemingly does a Grosjean (at Spa) to Raikkonen.

There's more than enough room on his inside, and I think that one could infer that Alonso was too busy watching Button and trying to get a wider line so he could get on the on the power earlier, and completely forgot about Kimi who had nowhere else to go.

Edited by Kvothe, 07 October 2012 - 09:59.

[Fontainebleau]

Watch this video:



Alonso almost seemingly does a Grosjean to Raikkonen.

There's more than enough room on his inside, and I think that one could infer that Alonso was too busy watching Button and trying to get a wider line so he could get on the on the power earlier, and completely missed Raikkonen.

Watch this one

Alonso is ahead of Raikkonen when he starts moving further left - "ahead" as per the overtake/leave space rules that say that if the car behind is not level with your rear wheel you are ahead..

[smoothcrim]

Watch this video:



Alonso almost seemingly does a Grosjean (at Spa) to Raikkonen.

There's more than enough room on his inside, and I think that one could infer that Alonso was too busy watching Button and trying to get a wider line so he could get on the on the power earlier, and completely forgot about Kimi who had nowhere else to go.

ok looking at that angle alonso was way over aggressive,i change my mnd and blame alonso.next.

[Fontainebleau]

ok looking at that angle alonso was way over aggressive,i change my mnd and blame alonso.next.

You change your mind because you were shown a video with a worse angle than the one you posted? Weird

[smoothcrim]

it shows alonso swerving movements,he should of kept it in a straightline.guilty.

[Kvothe]

Watch this one

Alonso is ahead of Raikkonen when he starts moving further left - "ahead" as per the overtake/leave space rules that say that if the car behind is not level with your rear wheel you are ahead..

Raikkonen looks level with the rear wheel to me, tries to back out of it but it's already too late.

You'll also notice that Alonso jinks into Kimi (who gets a rear wheel on the grass for a second) which causes the contact, despite there being enough room on his inside.

Edited by Kvothe, 07 October 2012 - 10:07.

[boldhakka]

Watch this one

Alonso is ahead of Raikkonen when he starts moving further left - "ahead" as per the overtake/leave space rules that say that if the car behind is not level with your rear wheel you are ahead..

That doesn't mean you can jinx suddenly and change your racing line arbitrarily, Fontainebleau. He actually starts turning in and moving away from Kimi and the edge of the track. Then he sees Button moving left, gets spooked and suddenly moves left even when he knew Raikkonen was there. Why would Raikkonen have lifted already by then if Fernando was already turning in and moving away from him. Fernando should have expected Kimi to still be there.

Edited by boldhakka, 07 October 2012 - 10:07.

[xman]

Watch this one

Alonso is ahead of Raikkonen when he starts moving further left - "ahead" as per the overtake/leave space rules that say that if the car behind is not level with your rear wheel you are ahead..

No he isn't, they are side by side and Alonso is only ahead of Kimi after Kimi had to yield to grass (and Alonso clips Kimi's front wing and gets a puncture there).

Watch your own clip again.

[Skinnyguy]

If i´d consider this incident being ALO´s fault, i wonder what was the last time he threw a race away?


Tells us a lot about Fernandos class, no matter if he was 0%, 50% or 100% at fault today.

That's it. It's nonsense to critizise him after how he's been driving. You can't expect someone to be flawless forever.

[smoothcrim]

That's it. It's nonsense to critizise him after how he's been driving. You can't expect someone to be flawless forever.

thats true.it was a tricky situation,alonso tried to be aggressive and failed,bad luck move on.

[Konsta]

That's it. It's nonsense to critizise him after how he's been driving. You can't expect someone to be flawless forever.

The point here has been that FA does not own up to his mistake today (no matter how few he's made in the past). Shows poor form IMHO.

[wj_gibson]

Now I know why I don't frequent F1 forums much any more.

[muramasa]

in hindsight and by watching replays it's easy to say he shouldve left more room to his left, but does it look that bad? Just a racing incident that happens time to time to me no matter how I look at it. even if it's his fault, what's the big deal? and he does this for the first time in how many races? and making big out of what he told in not his mother language, right.

[Skinnyguy]

Watch this one

Alonso is ahead of Raikkonen when he starts moving further left - "ahead" as per the overtake/leave space rules that say that if the car behind is not level with your rear wheel you are ahead..

Rule says you must leave room if the front wing of the rival has fw alongside your rear wheel.

Since the contact was exactly between these parts, and a while after Kimi already loses some ground after going to the grass, there's no room for discussion.

[Konsta]

in hindsight and by watching replays it's easy to say he shouldve left more room to his left, but does it look that bad? Just a racing incident that happens time to time to me no matter how I look at it. even if it's his fault, what's the big deal? and he does this for the first time in how many races? and making big out of what he told in not his mother language, right.

If Fernando had owned up and something on the lines of: "...we had a battle with Kimi and unfortunately for me I clipped his wing. Ended my race and that is too bad. Mistakes happen - I can only hope that my quota is up now."

Everyone would've said what a down-to-earth guy FA is and how unfortunate it was for a small mistake to end his race. Now that he does nothing of that sort, he gets grilled. On merit I might add.

[xman]

If Fernando had owned up and something on the lines of: "...we had a battle with Kimi and unfortunately for me I clipped his wing. Ended my race and that is too bad. Mistakes happen - I can only hope that my quota is up now."

Everyone would've said what a down-to-earth guy FA is and how unfortunate it was for a small mistake to end his race. Now that he does nothing of that sort, he gets grilled. On merit I might add.

Exactly. He does a Grosjean style swerve on Kimi and then blames Kimi for not lifting! Fernando should have more class to admit his wrongdoings when he does them.

http://www.gpupdate....r-turn-1-clash/

[Fontainebleau]

Rule says you must leave room if the front wing of the rival has fw alongside your rear wheel.

Since the contact was exactly between these parts, and a while after Kimi already loses some ground after going to the grass, there's no room for discussion.

There is a difference between being alongside a rear wheel and hitting it from behind, which is what it looks like in the video.