1489 replies to this topic

[Masenco]

As can be seen from the testing on sky today, the red bull seems to respond better to a looser end this year, and it's been well documented how Vettel was much superior to Mark in 2011 due to the stability through corners that the off-throttle ebd provided- knowing this, Mark may be more of a challenge for Vettel this year.

[Rikhart]

Who else noticed front wing flexing when going over kerbs, in sky transmission? Very similar to last year...

[Vesuvius]

Who else noticed front wing flexing when going over kerbs, in sky transmission? Very similar to last year...

Wings always flex, they have to, they would crack if not! Also you can test illegal stuff as much as you like to....but Red Bulls wings are legal or within the rules.

[micktosin]

Why was webber using Drs on other part of the circuit apart from straights? Aero development? Or is it my eyes.

[Rikhart]

Wings always flex, they have to, they would crack if not! Also you can test illegal stuff as much as you like to....but Red Bulls wings are legal or within the rules.

Not like this they dont, only red bull:



Like I said, saw this today on sky´s broadcast, no other car did it

[Jovanotti]

Like I said, saw this today on sky´s broadcast, no other car did it

You got some footage?

[Rikhart]

You got some footage?

Nope, sorry. But it was similar to what the wing is doing on the gif above.

[V3TT3L]

I just noted a new aero appendix in the RB9, the "GEOX Duct".

Newey's version of the Hublot Vents ?

Edited by V3TT3L, 28 February 2013 - 20:20.

[Zava]

that is old stuff, didn't want to dig deeper than the RB6:



though it might be an older solution than that.

[Cool Beans]

Not like this they dont, only red bull:



Like I said, saw this today on sky´s broadcast, no other car did it

Is the flex test performed with a rig supporting the center section of the wing, ie. can you get around the rules as ridiculously as making the tip of the nose flex?

[V3TT3L]

h !

[prty]

Wings always flex, they have to, they would crack if not!

Always funny when someone replies with that

[lbennie]

Not like this they dont, only red bull:



Like I said, saw this today on sky´s broadcast, no other car did it

omg, for the billionth time, what you are seeing here is normal vibration from the curb. you have to understand, that footage is shot at 1000fps.

the other teams would have been all over it if not.

[Rikhart]

omg, for the billionth time, what you are seeing here is normal vibration from the curb. you have to understand, that footage is shot at 1000fps.

the other teams would have been all over it if not.

Did you notice the FIA changed the flexing tests severely for this year? Yeah...

[lbennie]

Did you notice the FIA changed the flexing tests severely for this year? Yeah...

And red bull will continue to pass them, what's your point?

What you see here is oscillation which is very different to flexing in the context of the rules.

Edited by lbennie, 28 February 2013 - 23:45.

[Rikhart]

And red bull will continue to pass them, what's your point?

What you see here is oscillation which is very different to flexing in the context of the rules.

My point is that it´s something unique to red bull, you can bet your hat it improves performance (some speculate it could even act as a mass dampener), and it´s there for this year too, because I saw it today live on sky...

[lbennie]

My point is that it´s something unique to red bull, you can bet your hat it improves performance (some speculate it could even act as a mass dampener), and it´s there for this year too, because I saw it today live on sky...

And we can assume other teams are doing it as well.
Teams will either copy it or protest it.

Since there haven't been any protests, and this has been happening for quite some time......

Edited by lbennie, 01 March 2013 - 00:05.

[GreenMachine]

My point is that it´s something unique to red bull, you can bet your hat it improves performance (some speculate it could even act as a mass dampener), and it´s there for this year too, because I saw it today live on sky...

Get real - RBR build their cars to a poofteenth within the rules, they want to leave as little performance on the table as they can get away with. That is why they win (well, one reason). All teams try and do the same, because they want to win too. All teams watch all the others (even Caterham) to see that they don't go too far, or to copy something they haven't thought of. THAT IS HOW YOU USE RULES. If somebody does something smart, you had better do the same, and do it better and do it quickly. Because if you don't, pretty soon everyone else will be doing it, and where does that leave you?

If you can't play with the big kids, better stay home. If you don't like watching the big kids play, better go read a book.

[V3TT3L]

Ferrari fans can't complain of flexy wings after Massa's flapping wings at India.

The car almost went airborne at the end of the straight.

Edited by V3TT3L, 01 March 2013 - 03:45.

[PassWind]

Who else noticed front wing flexing when going over kerbs, in sky transmission? Very similar to last year...

Wing wasn't flexing, the whole nose cone is moving, wing happens to be attached to it.

[Zava]

Edited by Zava, 01 March 2013 - 11:49.

[ZF1]

Passive DRS?

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Passive DRS?

Both Autosport and the BBC saying it's passive DRS.

[Zava]

actually it has nothing to do with DRS so the passive DRS / DDRS / whatever names should get lost already...

it is the DRD (drag reducing device) first sported on the E20 in the german GP fp1.

[F.M.]

actually it has nothing to do with DRS so the passive DRS / DDRS / whatever names should get lost already...

it is the DRD (drag reducing device) first sported on the E20 in the german GP fp1.

DRS stands for Drag Reduction System.
So passive DRS is a valid name for it.

Edited by F.M., 01 March 2013 - 14:46.

[Zava]

DRS stands for Drag Reduction System.
So passive DRS is a valid name for it.

thank you, but I know what DRS stands for. still, if you call it passive DRS / DDRS / etc., people connect it to the open-close rear wing (the original DRS) which it has nothing to do with.
also, the inventors of this thing, lotus, named it "the Device", hence the name: Drag Reducing Device (DRD). lets just have 1 name for the thing, like in the case of DRS, the other name, ARW (as adjustable rear wing, or what the hell) died a pretty quick death.

[lbennie]

Passive drs is fine.

It is more confusing having different names for 2 devices which achieve the same goal.
The only difference is in the way it switches/sheds drag, Hence the adjective 'passive'.

Edited by lbennie, 01 March 2013 - 15:17.

[Skinnyguy]

I´d call it passive F-duct. Because this is just an f-duct that doesn´t need the driver to do anything.

This is not a "passive DRS". DRS is a flap opening that is only usable when you´re 1 second or less behind. This is not a movable flap, and it can be activated at all times. Nothing to do with what we currently know as DRS.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 01 March 2013 - 15:50.

[KnucklesAgain]

@Rikhart, you will like this

According to Live chat, RB said this on Sky's testing coverage:

"We want to make sure we can pass the tests and still do what we want to with the wing"

So yeah, as long as they pass the revised test they are in the clear, but there can't be any doubt that what we saw last year (like in the GIF above) is not the completely inevitable behavior of the car. (And if I still had recordings of the high-speed cam super slo-mo shots that were a regular feature of German TV at old Hockenheim in the middle of the nineties, showing the cars over the curbs of the chicanes, it would be easy to prove)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 March 2013 - 15:58.

[Treads]

Passive drs is fine.

It is more confusing having different names for 2 devices which achieve the same goal.
The only difference is in the way it switches/sheds drag, Hence the adjective 'passive'.

The only thing it has in common, in fact, is the purpose - drag reduction.
Everything else is different.
1. The way it sheds drag - moveable wing vs blowing air over the wing.
2. The way it switches on/off - passive fluid switch vs electric/hydraulic at the push of a button.

As Skinny says, a passive F-Duct is exactly what it is and what it should be called (IMO).

Edited by Treads, 01 March 2013 - 15:59.

[Treads]

actually it has nothing to do with DRS so the passive DRS / DDRS / whatever names should get lost already...

it is the DRD (drag reducing device) first sported on the E20 in the german GP fp1.

Does anyone else remember the passive DRS that Mercedes ran on the MGP01 as far back as 2010? Or am I recollecting this wrong... I know they were developing it, did it ever race...?

[Skinnyguy]

Does anyone else remember the passive DRS that Mercedes ran on the MGP01 as far back as 2010? Or am I recollecting this wrong... I know they were developing it, did it ever race...?

That was a passive F-duct too. It was just like the rest of the 2010 F-ducts without BUT without the driver having to use his body to activate it. I don´t know if it was raced, but I highly doubt it, because that is exactly what all the other teams are trying to do now.

[Zava]

Lee McKenzie ‏@LeeMcKenzieF1
Vettel tells me that if he had to use today's car in Oz with no more updates he'd be happy


and if my guess is right, the new chassis (shown on the sky coverage) which they just shipped must have the latest hard-to-change updates already built in...

[Rikhart]

@Rikhart, you will like this

According to Live chat, RB said this on Sky's testing coverage:


So yeah, as long as they pass the revised test they are in the clear, but there can't be any doubt that what we saw last year (like in the GIF above) is not the completely inevitable behavior of the car. (And if I still had recordings of the high-speed cam super slo-mo shots that were a regular feature of German TV at old Hockenheim in the middle of the nineties, showing the cars over the curbs of the chicanes, it would be easy to prove)

I saw most cars over the same chicane as red bull yesterday on sky, the wings were ROCK SOLID. Only red bull does this at all. It´s pretty obvious what´s going on ;)

[encircled]

http://en.espnf1.com...h.IBGZBzZA.dpuf

"I think it's very difficult to know in terms of pace where we are now, so a rough idea is [that] it's fine, we're happy with the balance, happy with the way the car behaves so then I think that's a positive for us," Vettel said. "But whether that's enough or not we don't know at this stage so of course there's a lot more to do.

"I think to be fair, conditions now are very different to what we'll see in Melbourne, so I don't think it's a surprise if all of a sudden someone deals better with the conditions we face there instead of the cold testing here. Overall I think it's got a bit tighter again this year so I think it will be close until the end I guess, and we are not even at the beginning."

Red Bull ran a Drag Reductions Device on Vettel's car during the morning session on Friday but Vettel was eager not to go in to any detail about how the test had gone.

"I didn't see anything. I don't check my mirrors much!"

[H2H]

First of all I would call it like Scarbs a DRD, a drag reduction device. Yes it is a passive DRS and the F-Duct was an active DRS, but it just creates helps to seperate this iterination of devices from the normal DRS and last years DDRS.

Newey acknowledged that devices such as that used by Lotus had great potential, if their challenges could be conquered.

"It's for sure an interesting area," he said at the launch of the RB9.

"It's also very tricky to have a system that's reliable, that withstands following another car without being triggered at moments that would be embarrassing, and to make it a positive gain on balance over the weekend.

"None of those things are straightforward."

He would not be drawn on how far Red Bull had progressed with its own DRS addition.

"We have certainly investigated it," said Newey.

"I wouldn't like to give away what we may or may not do during the season.

"It's a very interesting area, and it's there to be explored.

"Deriving lap time benefit, or more importantly points benefit, out of it, is more difficult."

As I wrote before the testing the potential benefits in such a close field are just too interesting to ingnore a DRD. With the regulations getting ever tighter and the last big rule change four years ago the ROI looks certainly attractive enough. No surprise thus that several team allocated ressources in that area.

Of course now it would be interesting to know where the inlet is. A key difference between the DRD systems of other teams and RBR is that we see no ears. If they can it pull it off this way all the better. Love the swanneck holding the beam wing, kudos to Sauber.

[H2H]

Great pics came in today. While everybody seemed busy to look at the DRD we have a nice view on one diffusor area.










Very tidy indeed, what a rear...

Edited by H2H, 01 March 2013 - 19:14.

[Mc_Silver]

This car is a beast. It has the same DNA of previous championship winning cars so they are the team to beat again for sure

[H2H]

I would not go that far, but the first pic shows how nicely the bulge around the exhaust pipe covers the exhaust plume form unwanted airflow and how steeply it is pointed. A quick look at the new Ferraris solution is certainly telling.

[One]

From F138 thread.

Interesting about the nose regulations. Made me think of the shape of th RB nose (which has stuck in my head since last year due to its ugliness). I know perspective and viewing angles can play tricks, but do you think this would pass that test?

Do RB9 has nose slit open also at the top front edge of chassis?

[Zava]

maybe they addressed that issue with this new fugly something:

[OO7]

From F138 thread.

Do RB9 has nose slit open also at the top front edge of chassis?

Those side-pods look outstanding! The radiator inlets are tiny as well. Gorgeous car, shame about the step in the nose.

[Zava]

OK, maybe the previous picture of the new nose was not the best, looks better on this one:


still I like the launch spec more, if it has to be stepped.

[KnucklesAgain]

OK, maybe the previous picture of the new nose was not the best, looks better on this one:

Not really, still fugly

[OO7]

Just seen video footage on Sky of the RB9 with the new nose. I think even with the step, shape wise at least its the best looking car.

[Zava]

Not really, still fugly

less fugly, but still fugly.

[olliek88]

A nice shot of the rear end from Jamey Price. https://twitter.com/...889325167763457



Like he said, you'd think RBR would of realised by now trying to block out the rear end is futile!

Edited by olliek88, 02 March 2013 - 16:31.

[amppatel]

A nice shot of the rear end from Jamey Price. https://twitter.com/...889325167763457



Like he said, you'd think RBR would of realised by now trying to block out the rear end is futile!

That will teach them not to run too much rake!! You really can see everything

[encircled]

I see an opening under the RENAULT logo. Is that new?

[300KPh]

the nose doesn't look ugly in the tv , its very normal