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Lotus 76


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#101 fines

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 09:24

Originally posted by petefenelon


Well you could argue that the MP4 was a Project Four design
that just happened to be built by McLaren - after
all, people stopped calling "McLaren Elva Oldsmobiles"
anything other than McLarens, and the Trojan-built cars
were McLarens..... so it cuts both ways ;)

Well spotted ;)

About MP4: that car was definitely a long way coming even before the "merger" with BMMR, but Trundle had nothing to do with it. That was "Project 1" - from the top of my head, here's Ronzo's projects:

P1 Rondel Racing (with Neil Trundle), 1971/2 Brabham F2 works team, 1973 own F2 car called Motul (hey, isn't that a sponsor's name? Hush, hush... :lol: ), 1974 own F1 car, but Motul switched to BRM so project was sold off to Token.

P2 Marlboro team Ecuador, 1974 Surtees F2 works team, an excersice best forgotten

P3 Project Three Racing Team, 1975 F2 team, why did that go under?

P4 Project Four Racing, Ron saw "wonderboy" Eddie Cheever race in F3 in late '75 and immediately snapped him up, ran Ralt and March F2 cars for him and then for others such Ingo Hoffmann, Andrea de Cesaris, Chico Serra, Hans-Joachim Stuck. Also started F3 team (in '78?), very successful (see British F3 thread) with Serra (78/79) and Stefan Johansson (1980), sold to Dick Bennetts in late 1980 complete with new car (4 races, 4 wins), and Dick made a career of it.

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#102 David Beard

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 09:55

Originally posted by petefenelon



Which one?;) Supertec, Mecachrome, "Fell off the back of
Flav's lorry", or "Playtime" (as the "Playlife"-badged ones
were universally known round here!)


Yes, I had forgotten there were so many. :|

#103 Megatron

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 11:12

Mario had his choice of which Marlboro team to go to in 81, but it was Jackomelly's performance in the US GP in the fall that made him go to Alfa and not McLaren.

#104 petefenelon

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 22:51

Good article in this month's Motor Sport that points out that the 76, without the trick bits, could have been lighter than the 72 -- although the article sends out rather mixed messages, it says (strangely) that 76 wasn't meant to be quicker than the 72 !!!!!!

The Team Lotus feature was fairly good though, I thought, although I sensed rose-tinted specs in the article about the last couple of years... It does point out that 107 was an unbuilt Chris Murphy Leyton House, which is a rumour I'd heard before - true?

#105 Ruairidh

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 03:59

Originally posted by petefenelon
Good article in this month's Motor Sport that points out that the 76, without the trick bits, could have been lighter than the 72 -- although the article sends out rather mixed messages, it says (strangely) that 76 wasn't meant to be quicker than the 72 !!!!!!

The Team Lotus feature was fairly good though, I thought, although I sensed rose-tinted specs in the article about the last couple of years... It does point out that 107 was an unbuilt Chris Murphy Leyton House, which is a rumour I'd heard before - true?



Does the article mean not meant to be quicker in a straight line?

As for the 107 - didn't we discuss that before and, while there was no real absolute proof - the belief was that it was a Leyton House built as a Lotus (how the mighty fell! :cry: )

#106 petefenelon

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 09:34

Originally posted by Ruairidh



Does the article mean not meant to be quicker in a straight line?

As for the 107 - didn't we discuss that before and, while there was no real absolute proof - the belief was that it was a Leyton House built as a Lotus (how the mighty fell! :cry: )


I am not sure, I suspect the article could either mean "not quicker in a straight line", or "the 72 is still just about quick enough in '74 but it's getting heavy and clunky and a bit of a horrible car to work on so let's do a cleaner version of it". The latter fits most of the stories about the 76 that I've seen...

#107 sblick

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 21:20

This car was at the Brian Redman Challenge this weekend being run pretty hard. I think I have a picture, but since there was a few JPS Loti I am not sure. Unfortunately I took the picture low and head on, on the front stretch.

#108 mp4

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 22:26

Originally posted by Megatron
Call me crazy but for some reason I always found the 93 McLaren to be quite an attractive car.

I thought highly of the Lotus 49 in Lotus colors and I quite liked the Maserati that Fangio retired in.


Megatron,
You are in no way crazy! I loved , and still do, the look of the MP4/8. It was such a clean design...
The fact Ayrton won five races in this car and Mika had the audacity (sp?) to out qually him when he finally made his debut for Ronzo always makes me smile. (In a most positive way, I might add...)
It would have been so nice if Ayrton and Mika were team mates on the track for a whole year, as opposed to only a few races. I have nothing against Michael Andretti. He was a known product, at the time.
None the less, seeing Ayrton teach Mika a thing or two, (again, only in a most positive way), would be worth the price of admission.
If you like the '93 McLaren, take a look at the '94 Minardi. It may have not set the world alight but it, too, was quite a beaut.
Any Lotus 49 is a very pretty thing.
I apologise, as I know nothing of the Maserati Juan drove...

Cheers :up:

#109 petefenelon

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 22:59

Agreed, the MP4/8 and 4/9 were two of the most elegant cars ever to have come from Woking - and that's a pretty elegant line!

#110 Twin Window

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 23:20

Well, you can keep all your 'plastic' cars when it comes to asthetics, as far as I'm concerned! The last really nice looking McLaren, IMHO, was the late-'72 M19...

Posted Image

...sex on a slick! Geddit?! (yes, yes; I know they're wets... :rolleyes: )

Twinny :) :up:

#111 Ruairidh

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 03:29

Originally posted by Twin Window
Well, you can keep all your 'plastic' cars when it comes to asthetics, as far as I'm concerned! The last really nice looking McLaren, IMHO, was the late-'72 M19...

Posted Image

...sex on a slick! Geddit?! (yes, yes; I know they're wets... :rolleyes: )

Twinny :) :up:


I'd never thought of the M19 as being attractive - and all that goes to show is beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd always been struck by the difference in line in it and Ralph Bellamy's next design (which coincidentally was ........................the Lotus 76 IIRC). Who ever said TNFers strayed off topic?

#112 WDH74

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 19:11

http://racingphoto.r.../cat/500/page/1 appeared at Road America last weekend, along with a 79. Among others!

Regarding the "Juan Valdez" special, one McLaren, clearly once sponsored by Marlboro, had the script on the sides changed to say "McLaren". I thought it was funny, since there was a Rizla sponsored car there as well!

-William

#113 WDH74

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 19:14

Shoot, did the link wrong....this one should help!

http://racingphoto.r....php/photo/5720

#114 FLB

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 17:58

Originally posted by WDH74
[B
Regarding the "Juan Valdez" special, one McLaren, clearly once sponsored by Marlboro, had the script on the sides changed to say "McLaren". I thought it was funny, since there was a Rizla sponsored car there as well!

-William [/B]

William, even weirder than that, the ex-Prost M30 was run in the BOSS race at the Sommet des Légendes at Mont-Tremblant earlier this month. It had the same "McLaren" sponsorship that it had had in Montreal.

There was another category, for historic FAtlantics and and F2's. It that category, there was an ex-Giacomo Agostini March 792.


In full Marlboro livery... :lol::p::smoking::stoned:

#115 mat1

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 09:01

Originally posted by Twin Window
Well, you can keep all your 'plastic' cars when it comes to asthetics, as far as I'm concerned! The last really nice looking McLaren, IMHO, was the late-'72 M19...


Beautiful car indeed. Not the best McLaren perhaps, but still...

mat1

#116 Mallory Dan

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 11:18

Originally posted by FLB


William, even weirder than that, the ex-Prost M30 was run in the BOSS race at the Sommet des Légendes at Mont-Tremblant earlier this month. It had the same "McLaren" sponsorship that it had had in Montreal.

There was another category, for historic FAtlantics and and F2's. It that category, there was an ex-Giacomo Agostini March 792.


In full Marlboro livery... :lol::p::smoking::stoned:


Don't think Ago ever had a 792. In F2 he had a Chevron B42, then in Aurora 79 & 80, he had a Williams FW06. Both in Marlboro colours. Was it the B42 you saw, I'd be interested to know ?

#117 Jeremy Jackson

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 11:48

The ex-Agostini B42 has been raced in quite a few HSR events, entered by Lee Chapman Racing. Pete Gulick raced it last year, amd Simon hadfield drove it at Sebring in march, so I would assume this is the car at Montreal?

#118 Mallory Dan

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Posted 23 July 2004 - 13:09

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
The ex-Agostini B42 has been raced in quite a few HSR events, entered by Lee Chapman Racing. Pete Gulick raced it last year, amd Simon hadfield drove it at Sebring in march, so I would assume this is the car at Montreal?


Never mind ex-Ago car JJ, it was also ex-Ken Brill......

#119 Twin Window

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Posted 28 September 2004 - 23:43

Originally posted by David Beard
This is the 76 at the 1974 Silverstone International Trophy, I think. Sorry about all the grobblies on the neg.

Grobblies? :lol:

Few F1 cars have been made to look better when modified from the original concept (for example the McLaren M23 was progressively messed up, aesthetically). I think the 76, however, was prettier in later long radiator pod form.

I think so too...

Posted Image
April...

Posted Image
...July

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#120 Macca

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 10:54

...............mainly because it looks like a 72, as a result of using the 72's nose, airbox and rear wing (and cockpit surround?).



I thought at the time that the original looked quite together, angular being quite cool in 1974, but now it looks thrown-together, or as though the nose buck was made from sheet plywood!



Paul M

#121 DOHC

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 19:49

As I have indicated in some earlier posts, I have finally got around to put some of my old pix in jpg format. So I post below a few pictures I took of Ronnie Pterson on Saturday practice in the 1974 Swedish GP, where he tested the Lotus 76 in at least two different configurations. The first is more similar to the original config, where the car as seen from above was wedge-shaped, while the other config has extended sidepods. The rear wing and the nosecone were already of "Lotus 72" type.

I hope that you will enjoy these lesser known pictures.

"Original" wedge shape

Posted Image

Posted Image

Added, rectangular sidepod cooling ducts:

Posted Image

Posted Image



As before, credits to ImageShack for providing space for the pix!

#122 Pedro 917

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 20:21

OOOoooooohhhh, great but heavy pictures DOHC !! All around 1Mb.
You should try to re-size them for web use, would make it easier on TNF guys who don't have broadband. Try 800 pixels and a compression of 80%, that would give you something around 100kb and with the same quality. You can download "cam2pc" software for free from the internet here.
Choose freeware and try it out.

#123 DOHC

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 20:26

Uhhm, sorry I know, it's just that I love them big if they have the detail to support it. And I took great effort ot get the detail in them... :blush: :blush: :blush:

#124 Ruairidh

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 20:39

Originally posted by DOHC
Uhhm, sorry I know, it's just that I love them big if they have the detail to support it. And I took great effort ot get the detail in them... :blush: :blush: :blush:


.........and on broadband they are just absolutely magnficient - THANKS :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

Michael Oliver's Lotus 72 book has interesting information about the influence of Giugiaro in the aesthetics of the 76. Given all the discussion about its weight and functions not operating properly it is interesting how many configurations of bodywork - front, side, rear and air box this unbeloved design went through in only a few months in 1974 - does this indicate that there were issues with its aerodynamics too?

#125 Twin Window

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 22:24

Originally posted by Pedro 917

OOOoooooohhhh, great but heavy pictures DOHC !! All around 1Mb.
You should try to re-size them for web use, would make it easier on TNF guys who don't have broadband. Try 800 pixels...

Yes, please try that DOHC because, as Luc says, big files like these are a complete nightmare for us stuck with dial-up (and old kit too...) :up:

#126 Reyna

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 22:50

Originally posted by Ruairidh
Michael Oliver's Lotus 72 book has interesting information about the influence of Giugiaro in the aesthetics of the 76. Given all the discussion about its weight and functions not operating properly it is interesting how many configurations of bodywork - front, side, rear and air box this unbeloved design went through in only a few months in 1974 - does this indicate that there were issues with its aerodynamics too?

Giugiaro proposal.

Posted Image
Source: Autosprint

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

#127 Ruairidh

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Posted 27 December 2004 - 22:56

Originally posted by Reyna
Giugiaro proposal.

Posted Image
Source: Autosprint

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting


Reyna - thank you so much :up: I had not seen that before.

Also DOHC - I think the Imageshack choice Reyna elected to use - the thumbnail that clicks into a larger version may be another solution for the broadband/dial up issue.

:smoking:

#128 WHITE

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Posted 29 July 2005 - 22:45

In 1974, Lotus had planned using their model JPS9. The car had been presented with a great fanfare by Chapman and Bellamy some time before the start of the season and it had impressed everybody. She really was one of the most beautiful cars ever - IMHO - however it never proved to be as good as expected. Can anybody tell us why it didn't work ?

#129 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:18

I have been reading a lot of info about the Lotus 76 on the net in preparation for a blog, Andrew Beaumont appears to have 76/1 (JPS 9) which appeared at Goodwood FoS and Silverstone Classic last year, does anyone know what happened to 76/2 (JPS 10) ?

Relevant a answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.

#130 MCS

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 18:27

I have been reading a lot of info about the Lotus 76 on the net in preparation for a blog, Andrew Beaumont appears to have 76/1 (JPS 9) which appeared at Goodwood FoS and Silverstone Classic last year, does anyone know what happened to 76/2 (JPS 10) ?

Relevant a answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.


Ralph

Have you seen Rainer Nyberg's pdf: http://www.motorspor...s/RN_030721.pdf and the comment "The car was a hybrid made of 76/2 JPS10 front end and 72E/8 rear end." Could that possibly explain it's apparent disappearance?

Or is it simply in an obscure/possibly hidden collection e.g. somewhere in Kent...? :down:




#131 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 19:16

Ralph

Have you seen Rainer Nyberg's pdf: http://www.motorspor...s/RN_030721.pdf and the comment "The car was a hybrid made of 76/2 JPS10 front end and 72E/8 rear end." Could that possibly explain it's apparent disappearance?

Or is it simply in an obscure/possibly hidden collection e.g. somewhere in Kent...? :down:


No I had not thanks for the link :up:

The photo of Jacky driving in Belgium reminded me

Abbaye de Stavelot museum (Spa) last weekend:-

Posted Image


of this post on the museum thread.

Wondering if the car in Gregor's photo taken at Stavelot might be 76/2 (JPS 10) or is this the car now in the hands of Andy Beaumont ?

Edited by arttidesco, 10 May 2012 - 19:17.


#132 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 20:18

I think the car in the Spa museum might be 76-2, but my evidence is very circumstantial. It was Ickx's chassis in period, and in 2006/7 76-2 was driven at various historic meetings by two Belgians, Christian D’Ansembourg and Hervé Regout. I can't find any record of it having appeared since then, so it might well have ended up in the museum. A very feeble case, I know. :blush:

#133 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 21:45

I think the car in the Spa museum might be 76-2, but my evidence is very circumstantial. It was Ickx's chassis in period, and in 2006/7 76-2 was driven at various historic meetings by two Belgians, Christian D’Ansembourg and Hervé Regout. I can't find any record of it having appeared since then, so it might well have ended up in the museum. A very feeble case, I know. :blush:


I'll take that a semblance of a hint, would you be interested in taking a trip with me to find out the chassis number Tim ?  ;)