257 replies to this topic

[Vitesse2]

Possibly a nom de course? The Miles-Martin Pen Company was a sort of illegitimate child of Miles Aircraft and was set up during the war to exploit Laszlo Biro's ballpoint pen patents. But there was no Mr Miles-Martin: the firm was founded by a Richard Coit.

Of course, that's just speculation ....

[Geoff E]

Found here http://www.oldracing...php?RaceID=IT51

"ERA A Type [R2A] (Edward Miles-Martin): A works 1100cc car in 1934, usually raced by Humphrey Cook and then re-engined as a 1500 for 1935 and raced mainly by Mays. Then via Nicky Embiricos, Con Pollock, HW Motors (Abecassis and Heath) 1947 and Reg Parnell (1948) to George Nixon for 1948/49. Also owned by George Hartwell, Harry Kaley and Ted Lloyd-Jones before entering historic racing in the late 1950s. Through a chain of other owners and owned by Rodney Smith (US) since 1997. Retained by his family 2007."

[Alan Cox]

Autosport's report of the meeting records that a crowd of 40,000 ("Surely the biggest crowd ever to see motor racing in the North") attended the meeting. They report that the race was the Sheffield Telegraph Challenge Trophy and they describe the driver simply as Miles Martin with no initial while the Weguelin 'bible' lists R2A as being owned by J V Green and E M Martin, having purchased it from George Hartwell. According to Weguelin, Martin raced it 5 times in 1951, the car then passing to W Goodwin for 1952.

[Vitesse2]

Stefan also has Miles-Martin listed as running a Cooper T9-HRD at Blandford in 1950:

http://www.formula2.net/F250_12.htm

Given that the car was purchased from George Hartwell and that most of its known appearances in 1950-1 are in the south of England (Castle Combe, Goodwood, Silverstone, Boreham, Ibsley), I'd guess the mysterious Mr Martin/Miles-Martin probably lived somewhere between Dorset and Sussex. Weguelin's listing also shows it as being run by "J Ashmore" on the Isle of Man - the text says "Fred": a multiply dubious reference I'd have thought!

[fuzzi]

That's tremendous gentlemen. Thank you very much.

[David McKinney]

I have to say the the hiphenated version is relatively new to me. In contemporary reports, and as recently as Weguelin's book, he was either E M Martin or Miles Martin

I'm not saying he wasn't hiphenated, but some publications do seem to have difficulty with people who use their second given name, hence H Mackay-Fraser, J Duncan-Hamilton etc. Funny we never had a J Michael-Hawthorn though

[Alan Cox]

As this thread has been given a bump, I post a few more photos from the Richard Seaman meetings in 1979-1981


R12B/Bill Morris hounding R2A/Brian Classic 1981, the Tecnauto front suspension working hard.

R5B leads away from a very damp grid 1980

Patrick Marsh/R1B 1979

Front row of the 1979 grid, R12B to the fore.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I was surprised to see R5B for sale in a recent MotorSport....surprised because it has been in the family for so long, and because it is advertised at all. Does anyone here know why? (Please excuse if this has already been asked/answered, but my MS arrives so late that even the history is old!)

Thanks.

Jack.

[David McKinney]

Patrick Marsh/R1B 1979

Was young Duncan Ricketts looking after R1B back then? Might he have been wearing a checked shirt?

[David McKinney]

I was surprised to see R5B for sale in a recent MotorSport....surprised because it has been in the family for so long, and because it is advertised at all. Does anyone here know why?

Ludovic Lindsay has been trying to sell it for a long time. The original reason was school fees, I think - maybe it's university fees by now

[Alan Cox]

Was young Duncan Ricketts looking after R1B back then? Might he have been wearing a checked shirt?

Hard to tell from the photo - It didn't strike me that the young chap might be Duncan before you mentioned it, David.

[fuzzi]

Alan thank you for more photos.

I think that Pat Marsh maintained R1B himself while he owned the car. He carried out a full and meticulous rebuild of the car after he built it, putting it back to original specification.

PS Bill Summers' Maserati on the near right looks lovely (David Black is at the wheel). It's quite nostalgic to see the Appleton Special behind R1B - we'll not see that again. But I digress..

Edited by fuzzi, 14 February 2010 - 17:23.

[Alan Cox]

PS Bill Summers' Maserati on the near right looks lovely (David Black is at the wheel).

And Dan Margulies with his 4CL on the far right.

[Barry Boor]

I've probably asked this question before but anyway, aren't those tyres a bit wide for E.R.As? Surely in period they were narrower? And if they were, why are they allowed to run wider ones now?

[fuzzi]

I am more than slightly intrigued that Gerard is down as winning the Kennings Trophy in R4A which was known as his hillclimb and sprint car fitted with a sloping radiator and painted cream.

He also owned R6B at that time, also fitted with a sloping radiator. Now I have a TC March photo from Gamston in July 1951 with Gerard in a dark coloured sloping radiator ERA so I assume (a dangerous thing I know) that it must be R6B - the Kennings Trophy was a Formule Libre event so he could have run the 2-litre car, but I wonder..

[David McKinney]

I am more than slightly intrigued that Gerard is down as winning the Kennings Trophy in R4A which was known as his hillclimb and sprint car fitted with a sloping radiator and painted cream.

He also owned R6B at that time, also fitted with a sloping radiator. Now I have a TC March photo from Gamston in July 1951 with Gerard in a dark coloured sloping radiator ERA so I assume (a dangerous thing I know) that it must be R6B - the Kennings Trophy was a Formule Libre event so he could have run the 2-litre car, but I wonder..

It's a long time since I was involved in researching all this, but my recollection is that R14B was his main race car at this time, R4A was the 2-litre sprint/libre car, and R6B was kept mainly for spares, and aired only occasionally. I forget what colours they all were

[Dutchy]

It's a long time since I was involved in researching all this, but my recollection is that R14B was his main race car at this time, R4A was the 2-litre sprint/libre car, and R6B was kept mainly for spares, and aired only occasionally. I forget what colours they all were

R14B was green with cream wheels. It also notable for its round radiator grille.

[Dutchy]

I've probably asked this question before but anyway, aren't those tyres a bit wide for E.R.As? Surely in period they were narrower? And if they were, why are they allowed to run wider ones now?

E.R.A.s ran small (5.50 x 16") wheels from new while most of their contemporaries ran 18". Starngely after WW2 the fashion changed to running narrower 18" wheels at the front while retaining 16" at the back. Later on owners reverted to 16" all round. The modern Dunlop tyres make them look wider and anachronistic but now pre war pattern tyres are available in the correct size and they look "right".

[elansprint72]

Great photos Alan.

Here are a couple from Oulton Park, Seaman Trophies meeting '75.

[elansprint72]

One more.

[elansprint72]

I posted this one in another thread the other week, where it fell on stony ground.

[bradbury west]

In the second shot, - is it Martin Morris in R11B? Humphrey?- it looks as if the car is running double telescopic dampers on the front. A recent piece on ERAs, IIRC, in the VSCC magazine remarked that this non-original type of mod was a problem in the '70s, causing much consternation until the rules were sorted out.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 15 February 2010 - 21:35.

[Les Dalton]

I have attached a picture of Prince Bira winning the 1936 International Trophy from Raymond Mays at Brooklands by ONE second.
There are some superb pictures in this book which was written and signed by Prince Chula of Siam.
Regards,
Les Dalton.

[Dutchy]

In the second shot, - is it Martin Morris in R11B? Humphrey?- it looks as if the car is running double telescopic dampers on the front. A recent piece on ERAs, IIRC, in the VSCC magazine remarked that this non-original type of mod was a problem in the '70s, causing much consternation until the rules were sorted out.
Roger Lund

Yes it is

[Roger Clark]

The ERA Club is very much less well known than it deserves to be. The latest Newsletter arived this morning and is alone more than worth the membership. A selection from the contents list may provide a flavour:

Merrick's Memories by Tony Merrick
The Racing Memories of Martin Morris
Racing R10B at the Grand Prix de Pau historique by Stephen Curtis
Pat Fairfield: Myth and Reality
ERAs in Southern Africa
The ERA Club: Car and Lapel Badges in the 1930s
THe Preparers
Reg Parnell's Dozen
The Challenge of the Chellenge®
The Ashmore Brothers
ERAs in 2009
2009 ERA ERA Competition Results

Congrtulations to Tim May and sometime TNF member Adam Ferrington for editing and writing much of this. Anybody with a genuine interest in these cars or in pre-war racing generally should be a member.

As befits the cars, the club is not noted for its adoption of technology, but it now has a website where details of membership can be found.
http://www.eraclub.co.uk/

[Alan Cox]

The latest Newsletter arived this morning and is alone more than worth the membership. As befits the cars, the club is not noted for its adoption of technology, but it now has a website where details of membership can be found.

Agreed, Roger. I hadn't seen a copy for some years before the latest issue arrived on my doormat this morning. I have already read it from cover to cover and it contains some fascinating facts about earlier ERA ownership, as well as a lot of archive pics which have never been published before.

[Alan Cox]

Bruce Spollon in R8C shadows Martin Walford with the ex-Lucy O'Reilly Schell/René Le Bègue Maserati 8CTF at Monaco 1997

[bradbury west]

The ex Dudley Geoghehan, R7something?, at the VSCC opener at Silverstone mid 90s. This was the first time out after Dudley's demise and the subsequent brouhaha over the car's ownership. Subsequently sold.

Photo copyright Roger Lund
RL

[Alan Cox]

The ex Dudley Geoghehan, R7something?

Gahagan, Roger to be correct. R7B, now owned and raced extensively by Paul Mullins, having reverted to its Arthur Dobson colour scheme of cream/off white with a chromed rad surround.

Edited by Alan Cox, 02 March 2010 - 09:20.

[Stephen W]

Gahagan, Roger to be correct. R7B, now owned and raced extensively by Paul Mullins, having reverted to its Artur Dobson colour scheme of cream/off white with a chromed rad surround.

Would that be Arthur Dobson?

[D-Type]

In period was any of the ERAs painted yellow?

My reason for asking is trivial in the extreme. This thread reminded me that about 50 years ago I read a story in an old boys' annual - it featured the usual "15-year old takes to the track at Donington when the regular driver has appendicitis, is kidnapped or is unavailable for whatever reason" type of story but the point is that the car he beat was "Bellamy's yellow ERA". So did the writer deliberately pick yellow so he wouldn't accidentally feature a real car?

[Vitesse2]

Not that I know of, Duncan. There were two white ones and one cream one at various times in the 30s, but most were green, blue, red or black in period. Rolt painted 'Remus' grey when he bought him from Chula: I'm pretty sure Embiricos painted his grey as well, as it was the Greek racing colour.

[D-Type]

Thanks Richard, so yellow was probably a deliberate wrong choice.

[Alan Cox]

I was surprised to see R5B for sale in a recent MotorSport....surprised because it has been in the family for so long, and because it is advertised at all. .

Confirmed by Ludovic Lindsay today at Stoneleigh that Remus has been sold to a driver who will be basing the car in Britain with David Morris.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Confirmed by Ludovic Lindsay today at Stoneleigh that Remus has been sold to a driver who will be basing the car in Britain with David Morris.

Glad to hear Remus will be staying at home. Can we assume that he'll be used as he has up to now?

Jack.

[Alan Cox]

Taken on the occasion of Martin Stretton winning the E.R.A. race at Silverstone 1999, with owner Michael Steele

Imola 2000. Jost Wildbolz, Tony Stephens and John Ure

[Alan Cox]

A few photos of the ERAs which raced at Monaco a couple of weeks ago

R9B - Rainer Ott

R4A - Jean-Robert Grellet

R1B - Michael Gans (3rd)

Paddins Dowling - R11B

R6B - Ian Landy (2nd)

R4D - Julian Bronson (1st)

[arttidesco]

Looking at the hitherto pics posted on this thread RJC believes this is R12B in 1980 belonging (then ?) to Bill Morris the non contemporaneous mirrors and black helmet especially seem to give the game away, is RJC correct in thinking R12B is painted to look like R2B with it's blue body yellow chassis, wheels and what appears to be a Thai flag on the bonnet ?



ERA, R12B, Brands Hatch, 12 07 80, with owners permission

We were wondering if there is there supposed to be a bit of extra metal work under the front left axle and is there any reason R12B does not carry the front brake ducting of it's siblings ?

Ref post #1 on this thread RJC and I would like it to be known that despite both turning 50 recently we are far from ready to abandon rucksacks, tents and journeys to the far flung corners of the world in search of people having fun driving cars fast :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 10 April 2020 - 15:22.

[Alan Cox]

Looking at the hitherto pics posted on this thread RJC believes this is R12B in 1980 belonging (then ?) to Bill Morris the non contemporaneous mirrors and black helmet especially seem to give the game away, is RJC correct in thinking R12B is painted to look like R2B with it's blue body yellow chassis, wheels and what appears to be a Thai flag on the bonnet ?

It is, actually, R2B which was raced in the 1980s by Bill Morris on behalf of owner, Narisa Chakrabongse. The De Ram shock absorbers distinguish it from R12B whe viewed from the front. When new in 1935, it was painted plain blue but adopted the new Siamese racing colours of blue and yellow in 1939.
With regard to the brake cooling scoops, I seem to recall that they might have appeared later on in the '80s The metalwork under the right-hand end of the front axle is the steering arm connection, so there wouldn't be a corresponding link on the other side.
http://th.wikipedia....s_and_Theng.jpg

[Option1]

Such iconic cars - thanks all for the great pics.

Neil

[arttidesco]

It is, actually, R2B which was raced in the 1980s by Bill Morris on behalf of owner, Narisa Chakrabongse. The De Ram shock absorbers distinguish it from R12B whe viewed from the front. When new in 1935, it was painted plain blue but adopted the new Siamese racing colours of blue and yellow in 1939.
With regard to the brake cooling scoops, I seem to recall that they might have appeared later on in the '80s The metalwork under the right-hand end of the front axle is the steering arm connection, so there wouldn't be a corresponding link on the other side.
http://th.wikipedia....s_and_Theng.jpg

Thanks for the low down Alan but if my pic is of ERA R2B what makes your pic in post #59 of this thread R12B they both seem to have identical mirrors ?

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=4142747

And lets assume they are both one car ERA R2B for a second when did those non contemporary mirrors get taken off ?

As they seem to have been on the car when it appeared at Retromobile http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=2671612 see post #11 but then replaced by a single left hand mirror of the original faired in type, with a white mouse, when the car appeared in Washington on July 28th 2007 http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=2800489 and then again with a single left hand mirror ?when the car appeared in Whittens hands at Pebble Beach in 2008 see http://forums.autosp...w...53901&st=40 ?

Seems ERA chassis are at least as difficult to keep up with as the Chevron B19. Porsche 917's and equally dreaded Alfa Romeo 179's :-)

Any help you or anyone else can come up with to tidy up these questions would be much appreciated :-)

And to everyone who has contributed pics I second Option 1's comment #92, :-)

Any one else think ERA's have a similar appeal to Mechano monoposts ?

I am sure Mechano cars always came out looking like ERA's 'cause all the Mechano cars I saw featured chassis built on solid axles :-)

Edited by arttidesco, 14 May 2010 - 23:57.

[Vitesse2]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Definitely R12B. There's a contemporaneous colour picture in Weguelin's ERA book - the white/red sticker on the aero screen visible on this picture can also be seen on that.

[arttidesco]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Definitely R12B. There's a contemporaneous colour picture in Weguelin's ERA book - the white/red sticker on the aero screen visible on this picture can also be seen on that.

Thanks Vitesse2 .... I think

Book references are possibly even better than web ones I am beginning to realise :-)

[Alan Cox]

Thanks for the low down Alan but if my pic is of ERA R2B what makes your pic in post #59 of this thread R12B they both seem to have identical mirrors ?

Well spotted, arti, my mistake in captioning the pic as R12B - it is R2B, evidenced by the shock absorbers with which R12B was never fitted. The period mirrors had been refitted by the time of its return to Thailand for the Bangkok race in 1989 as shown in this photo http://th.wikipedia....s_and_Theng.jpg

[arttidesco]

I was getting very confused again here ....

Post #94 Vitesse 2

'Definitely R12B. There's a contemporaneous colour picture in Weguelin's ERA book - the white/red sticker on the aero screen visible on this picture can also be seen on that.'

Post # 96 Alan Cox

Well spotted, arti, my mistake in captioning the pic as R12B - it is R2B, evidenced by the shock absorbers with which R12B was never fitted.

But I think Alan has a point here Vitesse 2

Here is the evidence

I found these pictures of R2B Romulus with it's distinctive shiny De Ram shocks on the front with little yellow plates on the inside of the shocks, note that these pics show Romulus with a single left hand original looking mirror :-

http://www.ultimatec...--Romulus-.html

I also found some pics of R12 B 'Hanuman II' without the shiny De Ram front shocks here, note the absence of vertical yellow plate on the inside of these front shocks and the shocks appear to be hinged in the reverse way to the R2B shocks, perversely R12B is shown with the same (or similar) non original mirrors shown on Romulous in both Alans and my photographs from 1979/80. Also R12B 'Hanuman II' seems to feature some sort of blanking over the lower part of it's radiator grill, several other pics of R12B 'Hanuman II' on the net show this distinctive feature too. Anyone have any idea's why ?

http://www.ultimatec...anuman-II-.html

So now all that is left to establish is, who has been buggering about with the mirrors on R2B Romulus and R12B 'Hanuman II' and out of curiosity why ?

And what is the deal with the sticker on the Aeroscreen has that also been swapped back and forth between Romulus and Hanuman II ?

I notice the body panel to which the screen and mirrors are secured seems to be interchangeable, is it possible the same person has been looking after both cars and swapping the body panels willy nilly ?

[elansprint72]

Very cold; Curborough.

[elansprint72]

[Vitesse2]

You've lost me there.

R2B 'Romulus' is the one with the faired-in mirror, which is exactly as delivered in 1935. It has triangular yellow plates near the shocks.

R12B 'Hanuman' has protruding mirrors, again as in period. At one point it had squared-off yellow plates near the brake drums - looking at Wouter's pictures, they have now been removed.

Where is there a picture of R12B with faired-in mirrors

[bradbury west]

That looks like that glorious enthusiast Donald Day
Roger Lund

[arttidesco]

Vitesse 2 I thought the protruding mirrors were from the 50's or 60's but I could be mistaken looks like Romulus has been run in the 1979/80 seasons with Hanuman II's mirrors ?

Is that possible ?

Do you agree those mirrors (or ones like it are definitely seen fitted to a chassis with De Ram front shocks in my picture post #90 and to Hanuman II without the De Ram front shocks in the ultimate car web page ?

Has anyone got any clues as to when the blanked off lower radiator grill appeared on Hanuman II ?