138 replies to this topic

[Gerard Gamand]

In 1982 that was the AGS JH19

[Gerard Gamand]

For the first time AGS could engaged two cars in Formula 2

[Gerard Gamand]

Unfortunatly, at the end of the year 1982, AGS losed his main sponsor MOTUL and they could not produced a new model.

So they engaged a version "B" of the AGS JH19

Here a pic of this car, take on the Paul Ricard track, during winter 82-83

[Gerard Gamand]

The driver is Philippe Streiff

Some time later, always during winter tests :

[Gerard Gamand]

In 1974, AGS built 4 chassis of the AGS JH14 FRE.

They were :

JH14-17 (updated JH13 for T-car)
JH14-18 for Claude Michy
JH14-19 for "Steve"
JH14-20 for Jean Ragnotti

It's interresting to note that the french actor Jean-Louis Trintignant gived some financial help to the team. In fact he do that is Uncle Maurice Trintignant have done with the firt F3 GRAC some years before ! Great people !

Here one of the chassis during building at Gonfaron early in 1976

[Gerard Gamand]

Here an interresting pic of the carbon chassis, built by the Duqueine brothers, just delivered for the new AGS F3000 JH20

[Gerard Gamand]

Here is an interresting pic take in february 1981.

You can see the difference between the AGS JH17#023 of 1980, and the very new AGS JH18#024 (on the left), for the 1981 coming season.

Richard Dallest, the driver is between the both. He was injured at Siverstone, and the season was seriously handicaped by that. The team ask Patrick Gaillard and Tiff Needel for remplacement.

[Gerard Gamand]

I'll continue this thread is sombody interrested...by this human story of AGS wich began in 1952 and grow up to the Formula one !!

Here the first car (I believe) in 1952

Henri Julien is very proud beside the little thing

[Allen Brown]

So, combining this thread with some delving into the Black Books and Autocourse, we get:

JH5 1970 Formula France (1 built?)
JH7 1971 Formula France (1 built?)
JH9 1972 Formula 3 (1 built?)
JH13 1975? Formula Renault Europe (1 built??)
JH14 1976 Formula Renault Europe (chassis 017, 018, 019 and 020)
JH15 1978 Formula 2 (chassis 021)
JH16 1979 Formula 2 (chassis 022)
JH17 1980 Formula 2 (chassis 023)
JH18 1981 Formula 2 (chassis 024)
JH19 1982 Formula 2 (chassis 025 and 026)
JH19B 1983 Formula 2 (chassis 026 and 027)
JH19C 1984 Formula 2 (chassis 027 and 028)
JH20 1985 Formula 3000 (chassis 029)
JH20B 1986 Formula 3000 (chassis 029 and 030)
JH21C 1986 Formula 1 (chassis 031?)
JH22 1987 Formula 1 (chassis 032)
JH23 1988 Formula 1 (chassis 033)
JH23B 1989 Formula 1 (chassis 033, 034 and 036)
JH24 1989 Formula 1 (chassis 037, 038 and 039)
JH25 1990 Formula 1 (chassis 040, 041, 042, 043 and 044?)
JH26 1991 Formula 1 (not built)
JH27 1991 Formula 1 (chassis 047 and 048)

How many gaps can we fill in?

Allen

[Gerard Gamand]

Allen,

In 1978, AGS built 2 chassis of the AGS JH15 Formula 2

They were :

JH15-21

(used by Dallest for Thruxton and Hockenheim, then by José Dolhem for Pau and Mugello. José destroyed the chassis JH15-21 after a crash during the race)

JH15-22

(The team missing Vallelunga to finish the second chassis at Gonfaron. It was new for the Rouen race and drived by José Dolhem, the Dallest at Nogaro, Enna, Misano and Hockenheim)

Source Henri Julien himself


At the end of the season, I believe the chassis #22 was uprated to became the new JH16 for 1979, So the very new chassis designed by Christian Van Der Pleyn (a wing car) was the JH17 for 1980 and it has the #23

[Allen Brown]

Can Henri help with the early models?

JH1 1950 500cc Simca engine (1 built?)
JH2 - ?
JH3 1957 500cc BMW engine (1 built?)
JH4 1969 Formula France (1 built? Rabbione)
JH5 1970 Formula France (2 built? Rabbione and Cerruti)
JH6 or JH7 1971 Formula Renault (1 built? Guerre-Berthelot)
JH8 - ? FR '72?
JH9 1972 Formula 3 (1 built?)
JH10 - ? FR '73?
JH11 - ? FR '74?
JH12 - ? FR '75?
JH13 1975? Formula Renault Europe (1 built??)

Much of the additions are from this Dutch site but I also had Echappement April 1970 at my elbow and that had a feature on the 1970 FF season.

Allen

[Gerard Gamand]

Allen,

After building 4 differents "Julien" cars for 500 and Junior between 1952 and 1960 (see above), Henri Julien founded the AGS company early in 1970.

So, the first car to be called AGS were the AGS JH5 "Formule France" of 1970, built in two exemplaires for Gerard Cerruti, and François Rabionne, with multitubular spaceframe and 1300 Gordini with Renault box.

The Dutch site is fantaisist for the less !

[Allen Brown]

I had a quick skim through 1972 and 1973 Echappement. The 1973 FR car is called the JH 73 but the older JH7 also races that season. The 1973 season preview says that four AGS cars would be racing, one of which was new.

Allen

[tobbe j]

First of all I want to thank Gerard for all the images he post,

JH21C 1986 chassis 031 most plausible, it has 031 today. (Autocourse 1986, JH21C 01)
JH22 1987 two cars? 032 and 033
JH23 1988 three cars? (Autocourse 1988 JH23 01, 02, 03)
JH23B 1989 updated JH23 033, 034, 036
JH24 1989 037, 038 and 039
JH25 1990 040, 041, 042, 043 and 044
JH26 car never built, would have been? 045 and 046
JH27 1991 047 and 048

The problem is -033 most probable is 1988 JH23 034, 035 and 036. 035 was maybe the car In Philippe Streiff accident 1989, that’s why no 035 1989. But this leaves only two cars -89

Or 1987 JH22 032, 1988 JH23 033, 034 and 035, 1989 035 destroyed 033 and 034 updated to B and 036 built new. But this leaves only one car -87, and never heard of a new JH23B

[Gerard Gamand]

When Henri Julien sale is company to Cyril de Rouvre, he kept the AGS JH22 to try the mysterious Engine W12 MGN of Guy Negre. They tryed the car on the Grand Sambuc track in september 1989

[Gerard Gamand]

tobbe,

For the moment, I don't know, because after the sold, the numbered was a little complicated, from JH23B up to the end. I'm still searching.

I put a new pic of the only two AGS F3000 chassis built :

The blue one is JH20-029 race by AGS in 1985
The white is JH20B-030 race by Danielson in 1986

For the 1986 season, Danielson who have bought the entire F3000 business of AGS, uprated the JH20 and run the both cars, for some race in F3000

,

[tobbe j]

Is there some of Henri Julien earlier cars left, in museum or better in races occasionally?

[Gerard Gamand]

I had race during more ten years with Historic single seaters, I've never see an AGS, but I've often see Henri Julien, alone in the paddock, walk and look everyvere. A true passion !!

[Gerard Gamand]

Here the pic of the first outing of the new front suspension, of the last JH19 serie.

It was the AGS JH19C in January 1984, and the livery was very white, without any sponsor...

[Gerard Gamand]

Except a small contract with Elf, and a newcomer Blanchet Locatop...

[macoran]

Found these

http://fotos.iher.ne...st AGS JH17.jpg
http://fotos.iher.ne...em AGS JH15.jpg

[antony duprat]

Two views of the 1982 or 83 Ballabio and Streiff's F2 AGS JH 19 B from Zolder race
http://www.zandbak.n...ormule2/006.jpg
http://www.zandbak.n...ormule2/011.jpg

[antony duprat]

http://forums.atlasf...ormule2/006.jpg

[Gerard Gamand]

Antony,

Thanks for the Zolder pics. It's 1983 and JH19B#27 and JH19B#28.

[Gerard Gamand]

Finaly, the 1984 season was well financed by the apparition of big Gitanes budget.
And the AGS JH19C could win the last ever F2 race.

[Gerard Gamand]

At the moment, the story of AGS cars is :

Any help welcome !

1970
JH5 : Formula France, 2 chassis built for Cerruti and Rabionne.

1971
JH7 : Formula Renault, 3 chassis built : Works car for Guerre-Berthelot and Team Total for Alain Couderc and Gougeon.

1972
JH8 : Formule Renault, 2 chassis built (Team Total for Gonnetant end Barrère)
JH9 : Formule 3, 1 chassis built (Guerre-Berthelot)

1973
JH10 : Formule Renault, 1 chassis (Alain Jollot)

1974
JH11 : Formule Renault (first monocoque AGS), 4 chassis built (Works for Alain Jallot, semi-works for Maillard and two sold to client : Pecqueur and Lacoste)

1975
JH13 : Formula Renault Europe, 2 chassis built for Xavier Mathiot (remplaced by Chritian Ethuin) and "Steve".

1976
JH14 : Formula Renault Europe, 4 chassis built (chassis 017, 018, 019 and 020)

1977
JH14 : Formule Renault Europe (same chassis used in 1976)

1978
JH15 : Formula 2, 2 chassis built (chassis 021 and 022 )

1979
JH16 : Formula 2, 1 chassis built (chassis ????)

1980
JH17 : Formula 2, 1 chassis built (chassis 023)

1981
JH18 : Formula 2, 1 chassis built (chassis 024)

1982
JH19 : Formula 2, 2 chassis built (chassis 025 and 026)

1983
JH19B : Formula 2, 2 chassis built (chassis 027 and 028)

1984
JH19C : Formula 2 (uprated JH19B 028 chassis ?????)

1985
JH20 : Formula 3000, 1 chassis built (chassis 029)

1986
JH20B : Formula 3000 used by the Danielson Team (chassis 030)
JH21C : Formula 1, 1 chassis built for Motori Moderni engine (chassis 031)

1987
JH22 : Formula 1, 1 chassis built for Cosworth V8 (chassis 032)

1988
JH23 : Formula 1, 2 chassis built (chassis 034 and 35 ??????????)

AGS have been sold at Cyril de Rouvre, and Henri Julien became a simple "consultant"...end of an human period.

1989
JH23B : Formula 1 ????????
JH24 : Formula 1 ????????

1990
JH25 : Formula 1 (chassis 040, 041, 042, 043 and 044?????)

AGS have been sold again and belong to the italians.

1991
JH25B : Formule 1 ??????????
JH26 : Formula 1 (never built)
JH27 : Formula 1 The first new model since JH23 (chassis 047 and 048 ????????)

End of the AGS saga



We have a lot of work to do on the story !!

[tobbe j]

Here's an image post by Honza in this thread P6 .
From Hungarian Gp 1987, Is this not two JH22????.

[Gerard Gamand]

This is the AGS JH26 never built

[tobbe j]

Gerard
How sure are you on that there is only one chassis -87 and only two -88

[macoran]

Another JH26 view

[Gerard Gamand]

tobbe j,


You are right.

If we start from JH20 who was #29, and JH20B #30 (the consensus is total for that)

We have the Formula one number :

First "big" chassis with a lot of ex-Renault F1 parts :

1986 :
JH21C (I don't know why "C" ??) #31
1987 :
JH22 #32 (updated #31) AND new #33

Second "small" chassis 100% AGS :

1988 :
JH23-1, JH23-2 and JH23-3 (we could say #34, #35 and #36)

Cyril de Rouvre became the owner of AGS :

1989 :
JH23B seems 1,2 and 3 JH23 modified and keeping the same number.
JH24 (the Claude Galopin design very similar to JH23) #37, #38 and #39
JH25 (the new design of Michel Costa) #40, #41, #42 and #43

[Gerard Gamand]

For the JH25 it is 1990 of course

[tobbe j]

It's something that not adding up why change chassis number from 031 to 032 when you updates,

There are no changes of earlier chassis number at update. JH15 to JH16 and JH19B to JH19C.

And JH21C with Chassis number 031 is in Lohéac
JH22 with Chassis number 032 is in Lohéac
033 not found but a JH21D found in Italy without Chassis number.
Sorry for the dragging up -D again but it is a mystery for me.


Which chassis was used at MGN W12 test and what happened with this car after the test? The engine still exists in Gay Negre factory.

[Gerard Gamand]

I'm very curious to see this JH21"D" type ???

Have you a pic ?? I've never heard of that...

[tobbe j]

1988: JH23-034, -035, -036

1989: updated to JH23B I think that only two was used -034 and -036 (-035 Streiff accident and was not used? And ended up later in Lohéac I do not know how)

-34 and -36 is at AGS F1 today,

JH24 -037, -038, -039 all are at AGS F1 today.

1990: JH25 (-040), -041, -042, -043, -044. Too many chassis number. (Autocourse never mention -040) (and I do not think -044)

1991: JH25 -040, -042, -043, what happened with -041?

-040 and -043 is at AGS F1 today.

JH27 -047 and -048 is at AGS F1 today -91

[Gerard Gamand]

How it could be possible to go in Formula one with 7 guys ?

That is what AGS have do in 1986. Dear old Henri Julien bought a lot of parts coming from the defunt big Renault adventure in F1.

As he know very well, Piero Mancini of Motori Moderni, they say together : why not ?

So, AGS built a chassis (the AGS JH21) and Motori Moderni put an V6 1500cc 780bhp at 12.000rpm in the deal.

Then came a third man : Roberto Angiolini. He run the Jolly Club and say : OK. He find the sponsor (El Charro) and engaged the whole thing for Monza !!!

It's as simple as that.

Other time, other men...

[Jeff Bellamy]

What happened with the Negre W12 project. Was it simply a case of the engine not being powerful enough or unsuitable in some way? There was very little mention of it in the motoring press at the time and other than a short article to say the test had been completed nothing was heard again.

It can't have been any worse that the Life W12!

Regards

Jeff

[ensign14]

The Negre W12 found its way into the back of a Norma at Le Mans in 1990. On the basis that the team couldn't actually get the thing to start, it probably does count as worse than the Life engine, albeit only just.

[Gerard Gamand]

Here two of this curious engine...

[ensign14]

Ah, I see the problem. The one on the left has the film wrapped above the little wheel in a triangle, whereas the one on the right has another little wheel to make it more of a rectangle. Stop me if I'm getting too technical.

[macoran]

Originally posted by ensign14
Ah, I see the problem. The one on the left has the film wrapped above the little wheel in a triangle, whereas the one on the right has another little wheel to make it more of a rectangle. Stop me if I'm getting too technical.

You are missing the lower run of the cam drive belts and the colour of the inlet trumpets

[David Beard]

Originally posted by ensign14
Ah, I see the problem. The one on the left has the film wrapped above the little wheel in a triangle, whereas the one on the right has another little wheel to make it more of a rectangle. Stop me if I'm getting too technical.

Not at all. You spotted the 35mm cam belt. Well done!

[Gerard Gamand]

For the 1987 season, the first full in F1, AGS kept the JH21 "fat" chassis and replaced the very expensive "Motori Moderni" by a classic Heini Mader Ford Cosworth DFZ.

They engaged the beginner Pascal Fabre.

If the package was fiable, the results was very poor, with Fabre finishing always with 5, 6 or more laps behind.

For the end of the season, AGS replaced him by the polyvalent Roberto Moreno.

Here the AGS JH 22 in construction during winter 86-87

[Honza]

Hi Tobbe,

Still mystery about 86/87 AGS ???? ;)
I search some pictures about De Cesaris tests at Le Luc circuit in 1991.

To Gerard Gamand:

Hi Gerard, you post here very interesting materials about AGS team, Can you exchange them, I have historic photos from years 1987 to 1990 and many more from Loheac museum.
Thanks for reply.

Honza

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand
Here two of this curious engine...

A bright idea but at the same time an idea with a sour taste................ & money to probably burn at the time.........

[Gerard Gamand]

Honza

Of course.
Too many Email, I have forget to answer, sorry !

[Gerard Gamand]

There is the last AGS chassis built.

The carbon JH27 for 1991 season, but it was too late for the litle firm.

[Gerard Gamand]

One of the last pic of the AGS in Formula one. It's Olivier Grouillard behind the wheel of AGS JH27.

[Barry Boor]

How delightfully uncluttered F.1 cars were in those days.

[Gerard Gamand]

uncluttered is the right word !
smooth and beautiful