Top 10 drivers of the Schumi era
#1
Posted 20 June 2007 - 13:59
and you can include Schumacher if you so wish but if you really think he was crap/overrated/handed his titles on a plate then you of course don't have to. This is based after Senna's death in the period which is known as Schumachers era. I'll stick my neck out first.
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Mika Hakkinen
4. Jacques Villeneuve
5. Kimi Raikkonen
6. Damon Hill
7. Juan Pablo Montoya
8. David Coulthard
9. Eddie Irvine
10. Jean Alesi
enjoy.
Advertisement
#2
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:03
1. Alonso/M. Schumacher/Häkkinen
4. Räikkönen
5. Coulthard
6. Villeneuve
7. Massa
8. Montoya
9. Hill
10. Fisichella/Barrichello
#3
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:06
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Mika Hakkinen
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Jacques Villeneuve
6. Damon Hill
7. Juan Pablo Montoya
8. Heinz Harald Frentzen
9. David Coulthard
10. Rubens Barrichello
#4
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:27
2. Mika Hakkinen
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Jean Alesi
6. David Coulthard
7. Rubens Barrichello
8. Damon Hill
9. Eddie Irvine/Massa
10. Jacques Villeneuve
#5
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:44
2. Jean Alesi
3. Jacques Villeneuve
4. Mika Häkkinen
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Giancarlo Fisichella
7. Juan-Pablo Montoya
8. Nick Heidfeld
9. Gerhard Berger
10. Kimi Räikkönen
#6
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:45
1. MS
2. Alonso
3. Kimi
4. Juan Pablo
5. JV/Mika
6. Hill
7. Rubens
8. Massa
9. Irvine
10. Heidfled/Ralf/Trulli.
#7
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:50
2. Mika Hakkinen
3. David Coulthard
4. Rubens Barrichello
5. Jenson Button
6. Felipe Massa
7. Alex Yoong
8. Jean-Dennis Deletraz
9. Takuma Sato
10. Michael Schumacher
In that order.
#8
Posted 20 June 2007 - 14:55
Originally posted by Buttoneer
1. Fernando Alonso
2. Mika Hakkinen
3. David Coulthard
4. Rubens Barrichello
5. Jenson Button
6. Felipe Massa
7. Alex Yoong
8. Jean-Dennis Deletraz
9. Takuma Sato
10. Michael Schumacher
In that order.
In fighting spirit today, are we?
#9
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:05
Originally posted by as65p
In fighting spirit today, are we?
Shhhhhh! I'm hoping that there are one or two clues which reveal to the intelligent that a smilie was intended but not required.
#10
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:06
2. FA (he was just a few years late, otherwise...)
3. MH (the coolest)
4. JV (probably had 2 or 3 titles in him, if not for the Bar saga)
5. KR (he will sink down the order, if he doesn't start beating FM soon)
6. JPM (he was very exciting at Williams)
7. DH (WDC, after all)
8. DC (on a better day)
9. JA (exciting, like JPM)
10. EI (exciting off-track)
RB got disqualified for lack of cojones...
#11
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:09
Originally posted by Buttoneer
Shhhhhh! I'm hoping that there are one or two clues which reveal to the intelligent that a smilie was intended but not required.
Usually doesn't work around here. Good luck anyway...
#12
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:10
Originally posted by as65p
(it's called the "Schumacher era" in the thread title, so there really is no choice ;))
That's true but I thought I'd better just leave the option there, even though it is his era.
#13
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:20
2. Mika Häkkinen
3. Kimi Räikkonen
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Gerhard Berger
6. Damon Hill
7. David Coulthard
8. Jean Alesi
9. Nick Heidfeld
10. Rubens Barrichello
The next 10:
11. Juan Pablo Montoya
12. Jacques Villeneuve
13. Felipe Massa
14. Heinz-Harald Frentzen
15. Giancarlo Fisichella
16. Jarno Trulli
17. Ralf Schumacher
18. Jenson Button
19. Mika Salo
20. Eddie Irvine
#14
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:30
Fernando Alonso
Heinz-Harald Frentzen
Mika Hakkinen
Damon Hill
Juan Pablo Montoya
Kimi Raikkonen
Michael Schumacher
Jacques Villeneuve
I'm not sure who would take the other two places: Coulthard, Panis, Button, Barrichello, Heidfeld, Alesi, Ralf Schumacher, Trulli, Fisichella, Salo, Massa...
I suppose it depends what is being ranked. How much weight do you give peak performance compared to average performance? For example, Heinz-Harald Frentzen at his best was as good as pretty much anyone, but wasn't at his best nearly as often as, say, Michael. Panis was probably never as good after his accident.
Edit: I would include Berger if I were judging drivers's performances throughout their careers, but I wouldn't include him on his 1994 and after performances.
#15
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:39
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Kimi
5. JV
6. Coulthard
7. Berger
8. Jean Alesi
#16
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:40
2. MS
3. MH
4. FA
5. JPM
6. DH
7. DC
8. JV
9. HHF
10. FM
#17
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:42
2.- Fernando Alonso
3.- Mika hakkinen
4.- Jacques Villeneuve
5.- Juan Pablo Montoya
6.- Kimi Raikkonen
7.- Giancarlo Fisichella
8.- Jarno Trulli
9.- Mark Webber
10.- Damon Hill
#18
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:42
So did the Schumacher era end where the Hamilton era began?Originally posted by former champ
This is based after Senna's death in the period which is known as Schumachers era.
#19
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:44
Originally posted by imaginesix
So did the Schumacher era end where the Hamilton era began?
You may be spot on with that mate, funny how its worked like that.
Advertisement
#20
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:46
Originally posted by Buttoneer
1. Fernando Alonso
2. Mika Hakkinen
3. David Coulthard
4. Rubens Barrichello
5. Jenson Button
6. Felipe Massa
7. Alex Yoong
8. Jean-Dennis Deletraz
9. Takuma Sato
10. Michael Schumacher
In that order.
#21
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:51
2.- Fernando Alonso
3.- Mika hakkinen
4.- Kimi Raikkonen
5.- Giancarlo Fisichella
6.- Jacques Villeneuve
7.- Juan Pablo Montoya
8.- Jarno Trulli
9.- R. Barrichello
10.- Damon Hill
#22
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:56
2. Schumacher
3. Villeneuve
4. Hakkinen
5. Hill
6. Button
7. Kimi
8. Frentzen
9. Fisichella
10. Irvine
#23
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:58
Originally posted by as65p
In fighting spirit today, are we?
Buttoneer
Will come back with my list later.
#24
Posted 20 June 2007 - 15:59
Definitely I'd put Mika right behind Schumacher.
As a real success against MS i count Alonso's 2006 season.
#25
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:03
2. Häkkinen/Räikkönen/Alonso
5. Berger
6. Hill
7. Montoya
8. Villeneuve
9. Heidfeld
10. Irvine/Coulthard
(I considered every driver's entire career)
EDIT: I've thought about it and add Barrichello to the list:
....
9. Heidfeld/Barrichello
11. Irvine/Coulthard
#26
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:04
2. Jacques Villeneuve
3. Fernando Alonso
4. Mika Hakkinen
5. Kimi Raikkonen
6. Juan Pablo Montoya
7. Damon Hill
8. Heinz-Harald Frentzen
9. Jenson Button
10. Ralf Schumacher
In the period 1994-2006, one might say that by and large, Hakkinen and Alonso received favourable breaks, and Raikkonen and Villeneuve did not, therefore IMO the exact order of the positions 2-5, which I believe are indisputable (maybe Juan Pablo could be included), is purely a matter of conjecture. The lack of a WDC for Raikkonen costs him in my estimation despite his equality, ability-wise, to many of those above him, and Jacques Villeneuve, as one of the most complete, courageous (on- and off-track) and entertaining drivers of the past 15 years, IMO merits a place just below Schumacher. There are significant caveats to the excellent performances of those below the first 5/6 (Hill invariably had an excellent car, Ralf was wildly inconsistent, Frentzen and Button had few seasons with which to prove themselves, not that it's all over for Jense, obviously), and indeed to those not on here, so again, I think there's a clear distinction between the great and merely excellent drivers here.
As cringe-inducing as the term 'Schumacher era' may be (I personally would rather lengthen to around 2009 and call it the 'Mosley Era'), the basic principle of the thread seems okay enough.
#27
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:05
Originally posted by brunopascal
2. Häkkinen/Räikkönen/Alonso
9. Heidfeld
10. Irvine/Coulthard
(I considered every driver's entire career)
You can see into the future? Get down to Ladbrokes and you could make a killing.
#28
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:06
Originally posted by as65p
2. FA (he was just a few years late, otherwise...)
Otherwise he would just be another Villeneuve, taking the title in a superior car and making people believe it's mainly the driver, and falling back when his car stops to be the dominant car or as soon as he gets a real teamate. For Villeneuve it was Button, for Alonso it's Hamilton. For Villeneuve, before the absent teamate Frentzen, it was Hill, for Alonso, before the fading Fisichella, it was Trulli.
Alonso coming in F1 a few years sooner wouldn't have changed a single thing in Schumacher's career.
#29
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:10
;) I meant entire/up until now if not finished- F1 careerOriginally posted by Risil
You can see into the future? Get down to Ladbrokes and you could make a killing.
#30
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:15
1. Schumacher
2. Hakkinen/Alonso
4. Hill/Villeneuve
6. Berger
7. Alesi
8. Raikonen
9. Frentzen
10. Barrichello
#31
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:47
1. M Schumacher
2. Hakkinen
3. Alonso
4. Damon Hill
5. Coulthard
6. Raikkonen
7. Fisichella
8. Barrichello
9. R Schumacher
10. Frentzen
EDIT: forgot JPM... put him between DC and KR.
#32
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:49
Originally posted by dde
Otherwise he would just be another Villeneuve, taking the title in a superior car and making people believe it's mainly the driver, and falling back when his car stops to be the dominant car or as soon as he gets a real teamate. For Villeneuve it was Button, for Alonso it's Hamilton. For Villeneuve, before the absent teamate Frentzen, it was Hill, for Alonso, before the fading Fisichella, it was Trulli.
Alonso coming in F1 a few years sooner wouldn't have changed a single thing in Schumacher's career.
#33
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:52
Originally posted by dde
Otherwise he would just be another Villeneuve, taking the title in a superior car and making people believe it's mainly the driver, and falling back when his car stops to be the dominant car or as soon as he gets a real teamate. For Villeneuve it was Button, for Alonso it's Hamilton. For Villeneuve, before the absent teamate Frentzen, it was Hill, for Alonso, before the fading Fisichella, it was Trulli.
Alonso coming in F1 a few years sooner wouldn't have changed a single thing in Schumacher's career.
Was a nice thread so far, for longer than usual.
Whatever: welcome fanboy!
Hmm.. if you bring "real teammates" into the equation, I might reconsider my generous placement of MS... better not go there.
#34
Posted 20 June 2007 - 16:55
1. Michael
2. Mika
3. Alonso
4. Kimi
5. JPM
6. Rubens
7. Damon
8. Irvine
9. JV
10. DC
#35
Posted 20 June 2007 - 17:21
1. Mika Häkkinen
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Kimi Räikkönen
4. Jacques Villeneuve
5. Jean Alesi
6. Nick Heidfeld
7. David Coulthard
8. Gerhard Berger
9. Damon Hill
10. Mark Webber (qualified top 3 but fell back in the race)
Why no MS? MS was leading but Montoya having charged through the field took him out in a banzai overtaking manoeuvre at the last corner.
#36
Posted 20 June 2007 - 17:25
2. Alonso
3. Häkkinen
4. Räikkönen
5. Villeneuve
6. Montoya
7. Hill
8. Coulthard
9. Fisichella
10. Heidfeld
#37
Posted 20 June 2007 - 17:35
Originally posted by clampett
From Senna's death to Schumacher's retirement:
1. M Schumacher
2. Hakkinen
3. Alonso
4. Damon Hill
5. Coulthard
6. Raikkonen
7. Fisichella
8. Barrichello
9. R Schumacher
10. Frentzen
EDIT: forgot JPM... put him between DC and KR.
#38
Posted 20 June 2007 - 17:44
BUT! There is now a Rookie killing him, so.
#39
Posted 20 June 2007 - 17:55
Advertisement
#40
Posted 20 June 2007 - 18:02
1.Michael-so good for so long, deal with it people
2.Mika-one of the fastest, definately the coolest(one free crying pass allowed ;) )
3.Alonso-very well rounded driver-still love the move on Michael at 130R
4.Kimi-super quick
5.JPM-on his day, supreme
6.JV-his resume is impressive but he loses points for the BAR fiasco
7.Rubens-really stuck it to MS on some occassions(not many can say that)
8. Damon-was never a big fan but his title was deserved
9.Irvine and DC-I think of one I automatically think of the other.
honorable mention: Alesi, Frentzen, Fisi, and as much as I'm hating Ralf right now, I'll never forget when he beat Michael in Montreal for the first brother 1-2 in F1. He was SO good that day, it's hard to believe I'm watching the same guy.
#41
Posted 20 June 2007 - 18:13
1. Schumacher
2. Hakkinen
3. Barrichello (he beat a Michael in his _prime_ in more races than anyone following in this list and with the same equipment...Rubens is a seriously exceptional driver)
4. Alonso
5. Alesi
6. Raikkonen
7. Montoya
8. Hill
9. Villeneuve
10. Coulthard
#42
Posted 20 June 2007 - 18:14
Originally posted by FonzCam
Ranking drivers is too difficult there are too many variables, so here's my top 10 from if they all raced each other at their best in equal cars.
1. Mika Häkkinen
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Kimi Räikkönen
4. Jacques Villeneuve
5. Jean Alesi
6. Nick Heidfeld
7. David Coulthard
8. Gerhard Berger
9. Damon Hill
10. Mark Webber (qualified top 3 but fell back in the race)
Why no MS? MS was leading but Montoya having charged through the field took him out in a banzai overtaking manoeuvre at the last corner.
but than Michael asked help from the marshals to bring his car back and into the track. With an ailing car he returns right onto the path of Mika, who's being pressured by Alonso, and crashes into him. This time, the two are out of the race together with Montoya who goes fuming directly to Kimi's yacht.
the race resumes with Alonso leading Kimi, who's been having a difficult race, after having taken the pole but giving up several positions at the start, primarily for falling asleep since it was reported the night before he was out drinking. JV is running 4th followed by........ (keep it going for fun );)
#43
Posted 20 June 2007 - 18:24
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Raikkonen
5. Montoya
6. Hill
7. Alesi
8. Coulthard
9. Villeneuve
10. Fisichella
#44
Posted 20 June 2007 - 18:58
Of course, its difficult to separate good drivers from crappy cars, that's why Jacques, for instance, must be in the list, even though he struggled for too long in that BAR.
Also, even though I like him, I believe that Hakkinen got better reviews because he always had competitive cars from day one, sames goes to Hill.
Montoya otoh is a tough one, he showed great promise, but the Williams simply wanst a great car when he was there.
So, all things considered, here's my take:
1. Schummy (undisputed, even if one of his titles was "robbed" from DH)
2. Villeneuve (much better than his team choice would allow)
2. Alonso (2 time champ against MS)
3. Hakkinen (same as alonso)
4. Hill (had a champ stolen, and was good, even if he had ups and downs)
5. Rubens (paired with MS, still got some great wins)
6. Montoya (hot blooded, but good)
7. Berger (paired with great teamates)
8. Alesi (his win ratio doesnt tell the whole story)
9. Raikonnen (despite having a tough time against Massa, the finn deserves some credit)
10. Coulthard (ok, cubey aint that bad after all)
#45
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:16
Originally posted by molive
Also, even though I like him, I believe that Hakkinen got better reviews because he always had competitive cars from day one, sames goes to Hill.
No kidding... struggling Lotus and dying Brabham respectively, unlike Villeneuve who had to settle for 96 Williams which one might even argue was a tad competive against the field, more so than any McLaren Häkkinen had in his disposal at any stage of his career....
Against better wisdom:
Schumacher M.
Häkkinen, Alonso
Hill, Villeneuve, Räikkönen, Coulthard
Montoya, Barrichello, Irvine, Trulli, Fisichella, Schumacher R., Button .... overlooked him
More than ten but can't make up my mind..
#46
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:30
Since 1997
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Mika hakkinen
3. Fernando Alsonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Juan Pablo Montoya
6. David Coulthard
7. Jacques Villenueve
8. Nick Heidfeld
9. H-H Frentzen
10. Jensen Button (yes laugh, but he is better than Fisi and Trulli)
#47
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:38
2. Mika Hakkinen
3. Fernando Alsonso
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Damon Hill
7. Jacques Villenueve
6. David Coulthard
8. Juan Pablo Montoya
9. Nick Heidfeld
10. H-H Frentzen
#48
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:38
There was motor racing before Lewis Hamilton?
#49
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:42
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Kimi Raikkonen
4-6. Damon Hill/Jacques Villeneuve/Mika Hakkinen
7. Heinz-Harald Frentzen (but when he was good, he was brilliant)
8. Juan Pablo Montoya
9. David Coulthard
10. Jenson Button
11. Rubens Barrichello
12. Nick Heidfeld (if you included this year, he'd be higher)
13. Olivier Panis
14. Jean Alesi
15-17. Jarno Trulli/Giancarlo Fisichella/Ralf Schumacher
18. Felipe Massa (again, if you included this year, he'd be higher)
19. Eddie Irvine
20. Mika Salo
I'll change my mind the moment I press 'submit reply', though.
EDIT: I did.
#50
Posted 20 June 2007 - 19:43
A freudian slip?Originally posted by slapstick
1. KR
2. MS
3. MH
4. FA
5. JPM
6. DH
7. DC
8. JV
9. HHF
10. FM