604 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

I accept all you say about Siffert, Macca, but none of it fits this car.

[Macca]

About the colours? No, none of the pictures of Siffert in the 24 show a white band (one shows a chequered band round the tip), and the other Filipinetti 24 driven by Phil Hill in '64 had a white stripe - also there is a photo of Baghetti in '63 in a Filipinetti 24-BRM which might be the Siffert car, also with a white stripe.

On another forum I've seen that the Schlumpf 24 is listed as c/n 950, which was the Siffert car.

edit: and Schlumpf aren't noted for accuracy of colour schemes - viz the position of the nose number disc on the 33:
http://www.lotustalk...f1-cars-l33.jpg

Paul

Edited by Macca, 21 October 2009 - 13:45.

[Peter Morley]

The Ferrari looks to have had an OSCA grille fitted.............upside-down! And the 250F, as you say, seems to have the front wheels a foot too far forward.

Siffert drove a 22 in n/c F1 IIRC, then both a 21-Climax and a 24-BRM in '62 and '63-4 for Filipinetti, then bought the 24 and ran it himself. There are some photos on this Autodiva forum thread:
http://www.autodiva....p...109&start=0

Maybe Schlumpf couldn't get hold of a BRM V8 for it...........

Odd that the 25 and 156 aren't on display, they've been there for ever - maybe in restoration?

Paul M

The Schlumpfs bought 3 Lotuses from Siffert 18 (913), 24 (950) & 33 (R9) for 10000, 14000 & 16000 Swisss francs (e.g. not a lot) around 1970.

Apparently the 24 (chassis number 950) was sold to Siffert by Filipinetti after they fired him.
Siffert ran it himself and supposedly fitted the FPF in 1965 after the BRM V8 self destructed - but the FPF appears to be a 2.5 litre so it wouldn't have been eligible, unless he was thinking of running it in 1966 3 litre F1?

Incidentally Filipinetti bought two Lotus 24s both described as chassis number 950 on their paperwork...
One of the Filipinetti 24s was converted in to the Cegga Ferrari with a 250 V-12 engine fitted - presumably the other one...

Red is the right colour for a Filipinetti car, but the white Walker nose band isn't.

The Lotus 33 and Ferrari 156 aero were both on display when I last visited nearly a year ago.

[David McKinney]

The Schlumpf 250F probably looks wrong because it's one of the offset-transmission cars built for the 1956 Italian GP (with lower seating position)

[smarjoram]

I've got a few from the Ferrari museum here - it's very nicely laid out and the displays are excellent - I found the experimental engines very interesting.

http://www.pbase.com...useum_maranello







It's worth taking a look at this gallery of the Blackhawk collection - they're very beautiful photos - not by me though...

http://www.flickr.co...57594572725836/

[Macca]

The Schlumpf 250F probably looks wrong because it's one of the offset-transmission cars built for the 1956 Italian GP (with lower seating position)

The back end looks right but the front doesn't, maybe because it was fitted with some bodywork off a different 250F at some time.

Paul M

[MODE]

Lotus 33 and Ferrari 156 are on display at Matra museum (Romorantin) since some months for a special exposition which will end 11 november. This Matra museum, not very known, is really good, all their race cars and engines are there.

[Allen Brown]

The Schlumpfs bought 3 Lotuses from Siffert 18 (913), 24 (950) & 33 (R9) for 10000, 14000 & 16000 Swisss francs (e.g. not a lot) around 1970.

Apparently the 24 (chassis number 950) was sold to Siffert by Filipinetti after they fired him.
Siffert ran it himself and supposedly fitted the FPF in 1965 after the BRM V8 self destructed - but the FPF appears to be a 2.5 litre so it wouldn't have been eligible, unless he was thinking of running it in 1966 3 litre F1?

Perhaps he ran it like that in hillclimbs?

[Barry Boor]

Thank you Mr. Mode. That explains their absence from Mulhouse.

[Alan Cox]

I'll post a couple more of the banking when it's fixed.
Rob

Good news to hear that the banking is going to be fixed, Rob.

If you think that the Monza 250F (2530) looks a little unusual, someone should post a photo of the Collection's other 250F (2511) which is the ex-Centro-Sud car with the high, Vanwall-style tail which did nothing for its aesthetics.

[Gary C]

Yesterday at Brooklands ...........................

[David McKinney]

If you think that the Monza 250F (2530) looks a little unusual...

2526, actually (though it was later renumbered 2530)
What I'd call 2526/2530

[Alan Cox]

2526, actually (though it was later renumbered 2530)
What I'd call 2526/2530

..and isn't 2511 derived from 2502/2506? So I learned from reading the 250F book by a chap named McKinney. Any relation?

[Barry Boor]

Would that be this one, Alan?

[Alan Cox]

Yes, Barry, and an incredibly wide opening to the carburettor scoop. Have you ever modelled it?

Edited by Alan Cox, 24 October 2009 - 17:28.

[David McKinney]

..and isn't 2511 derived from 2502/2506?

Yes
They don't make it easy for us, do they

[Barry Boor]

No, Alan, far too busy with other cars! My 250.Fs are actually Airfix-based and one could have been modified but as I am no longer running 1958 F.1 the time for this car is past.

[fw07c]

Yesterday at Brooklands ...........................

what is it?

[Ivan]

Great thread...how is it I'm just finding it...

[Gary C]

it's some sort of Alvis special :

[Pullman99]

[quote name='Gary C' date='Oct 25 2009, 14:03' post='3955411']
it's some sort of Alvis special :I/quote]

Is that the Dunham Alvis Special campaigned in period by Gerry Dunham and in more recent years by sometine FF racer, Richard Dunham. I worked with his brother John in the ear;ly 1970s at Canley (Coventry) whatever BL called itself that week! I think the Alvis is based on one of the mid-'thirties six cylinder cars, but cannot remember which one.

[David McKinney]

I'm so unsure of myself that I didn't want to post a response...

However, I think it might be the car built by Lt Cdr Bryce Clinkard

[Alan Cox]

According to the Brooklands website, the ex-Clinkard Alvis Special is housed there.

http://www.brookland...ing-collection/
http://www.classican...nds_museum.html

[Dutchy]

It certainly is the car built by Cdr "Clink" Clinkard and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Dunham Alvis.

Built by ex neighbour of mine Cdr Clinkard while on board ship while serving in the Navy in the 1950s, the car featured a 4.3 Alvis motor with a large Shorrock supercharger (one of a pair I believe - the other fitted to ERA R4D) and a body reputedly made for one of the E Type ERAs but never fitted to such.

It is good to hear the car is now back in the UK to race. It will need a brave and skilful driver to get the best out of it. Despite its prodigous straight line speed the car was difficult to handle and gave Clink a fright on more than one occasion.

With reference to the Octane article, Bradfield Engineering was IIRC the name of Clink's business building and servicing Alvi. from his farm in Assington Suffolk

[Giraffe]

Some shots of variable quality taken at the rather eclectic and fluid Skopos Motor Museum in Batley, West Yorks starting off with TVR No2....

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28
& a locally built car, a Jowitt....

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-10-28

Edited by Giraffe, 28 October 2009 - 11:28.

[Robin Fairservice]

The Jowett Jupiter was a works car at the 1951 Le Mans 24 hour race, but retired after 19 laps driven by Bert Hadley and Charles Goodacre. Hadley then won the 1.5 litre class at the 1951 RAC TT race. The other Jowett is a 1928 Fabric sallon.

[Alexey Rogachev]

Two Moskvich G5M single-seaters in Auto-Retro-Museum, Moscow:

[Giraffe]

Some images of the Donington Collection as it was on my visit this last Monday...

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with http://img441.images...78/cimg0010.jpg[/IMG]

By giraffe138://http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/...e138]giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with http://img194.images...1/cimg0024u.jpg[/IMG]

By giraffe138://http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/...e138]giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By giraffe138, shot with EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

By [url="http://profile.imageshack.us/user/giraffe138"]giraffe138, shot with [url="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=EX-M2&make=CASIO+COMPUTER+CO.%2CLTD"]EX-M2 at 2009-11-04

Apologies for the poor light quality, but it was somewhat subdued at Donington on the day of my visit....

[john t]

I haven't been to The Donington Collection in years. Seing your photos reminds me to make the effort. A good time to go right now. Would be a great place for a TNF gathering (or has that been done already?).

[Stephen W]

I haven't been to The Donington Collection in years. Seing your photos reminds me to make the effort. A good time to go right now. Would be a great place for a TNF gathering (or has that been done already?).

It was suggested for earlier this year but the decision was finally made to meet at the Silverstone Classic.

I did try to get some prices from Donington for hiring a room and getting outside caterers in but nothing was forthcoming.

Maybe we just pick a date at random and if people turn up so be it?

[john t]

It was suggested for earlier this year but the decision was finally made to meet at the Silverstone Classic.

I did try to get some prices from Donington for hiring a room and getting outside caterers in but nothing was forthcoming.

Maybe we just pick a date at random and if people turn up so be it?

Yep. Sounds like a great idea. Mon-thur are its less busy days so that would be good for snappers such as myself.

[Barry Boor]

Giraffy, bit of photoshopping required on some of those pictures, I think.

[David Beard]

Yep. Sounds like a great idea. Mon-thur are its less busy days so that would be good for snappers such as myself.

Less good for the busy non retired

[Stephen W]

Yep. Sounds like a great idea. Mon-thur are its less busy days so that would be good for snappers such as myself.

Less good for the busy non retired

I was actually thinking of a Saturday or Sunday so that the gainfully employed could also join in!

Maybe Giraffe could furnish us with the opening times etc?

[Giraffe]

I was actually thinking of a Saturday or Sunday so that the gainfully employed could also join in!

Maybe Giraffe could furnish us with the opening times etc?

OPENING TIMES & ADMISSION PRICES


The Donington Grand Prix Exhibition is open every day from 10am to 5pm (last admission 4pm)

Facilities include extensive FREE parking, the Grand Prix Cafe Bar and Grand Prix Collectables Gift Shop.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prices:
Adults £7.00
Children (6-16) £2.50
Students/Senior Citizens £5.00
Special Family Ticket £14.00
(2 Adults & up to 3 Children)
Discount rates are available for groups including coach parties:

One guest to fourteen guests £7.00 per person
Fifteen guests to twenty four guests £6.00 per person
Twenty five guests and over £5.00 per person
Guided Tours can be arranged by prior appointment, click here for more information.

Guided Tour (for a maximum group size of 25 people) £177 inc VAT per tour (excludes entrance fee).

[RA Historian]

Glad to see the photos, Giraffe. I had heard that Donnington was selling off some of its stock. E.G.: an ad in the current Vintage Racecar for the Donington Collection's Scarab F-1. What exactly is happening?
Tom

[Giraffe]

Giraffy, bit of photoshopping required on some of those pictures, I think.

I use a tiny little Casio Exilim 2.0 Mega Pixel that I purchased years ago at Doha Airport when these things came out. I'm usually surprised by the quality of the results considering, but in a big room with poor lighting, the tiny flash simply can't cope.

[Giraffe]

Glad to see the photos, Giraffe. I had heard that Donnington was selling off some of its stock. E.G.: an ad in the current Vintage Racecar for the Donington Collection's Scarab F-1. What exactly is happening?
Tom

Don't forget many of the exhibits are on loan to the museum, Tom. Tom Wheatcroft often wheeled and dealed with his cars, and I would now presume the cars that remained titled to him will form part of his estate for probate purposes, so the short answer is do what I did on Monday, and go see them now while you can.

[Alan Cox]

Glad to see the photos, Giraffe. I had heard that Donnington was selling off some of its stock. E.G.: an ad in the current Vintage Racecar for the Donington Collection's Scarab F-1. What exactly is happening?
Tom

Hall and Hall, as Tom's agents, have been offering cars from the Collection for quite some time now but with Tom's passing we will have to wait and see whether the impetus will gather for further sales. I believe that the Bimotore is one of the cars recently sold but I have heard that the BRM and Vanwall collections have not been included in the list of cars currently for sale.

[RA Historian]

Don't forget many of the exhibits are on loan to the museum, Tom. Tom Wheatcroft often wheeled and dealed with his cars, and I would now presume the cars that remained titled to him will form part of his estate for probate purposes, so the short answer is do what I did on Monday, and go see them now while you can.

Thanks for the info. I dearly would like to do what you suggest, and go see it ASAP. But, being here in Wisconsin, USA, it is a bit of a drive.......
Tom

[Pullman99]

I was actually thinking of a Saturday or Sunday so that the gainfully employed could also join in!

I am working part of the week in Derby at the moment and went by the circuit this morning; flags noticeably and understandably at half-mast. Like Giraffe, I too visited frequently from the time the Collection first opened (was even there when the Leyland historic collection was opened) and I do hope that it will continue to flourish. A Saturday or Sunday visit would be fine by me but maybe we should wait an appropriate length of time and perhaps see if the Wheatcroft family would wish to be involved with such a visit.

[Pink Snail]

I am working part of the week in Derby at the moment and went by the circuit this morning; flags noticeably and understandably at half-mast. Like Giraffe, I too visited frequently from the time the Collection first opened (was even there when the Leyland historic collection was opened) and I do hope that it will continue to flourish. A Saturday or Sunday visit would be fine by me but maybe we should wait an appropriate length of time and perhaps see if the Wheatcroft family would wish to be involved with such a visit.

Weekend do certainly a better option for me & mine. Would maybe think about camping or caravanning on the site by the Donington Park Hotel (use it every time) and make a weekend break. Family ticket sounds like the best option for me and we all enjoyed it last time..

[Dutchy]

A lot of the more interesting and unusual cars have been sold off in recent years; the Gordini, Alta and Derby-Maserati immediately spring to mind. last time I went I must confess to being very bored by the huge display of McLarens.

[Giraffe]

I must confess to being very bored by the huge display of McLarens.

[Peter Morley]

At least it gives an opportunity to see the McLarens.
I'd like to see the Brabhams on display as well, I don't fancy my chances of being offered a visit to their top secret hangar.

[Alan Cox]

... last time I went I must confess to being very bored by the huge display of McLarens.

At least it gives an opportunity to see the McLarens.

Yes, but the way all the Marlboro-sponsored cars are displayed is a bit mind-numbing, don't you think?

[Giraffe]

Yes, but the way all the Marlboro-sponsored cars are displayed is a bit mind-numbing, don't you think?

They are actually all quite different Alan, and the individual histories of the cars are fascinating. Let's face it, if it hadn't been for sponsorship and specifically Marlboro, they would probably all have been orange (or whatever it's called; papaya?), which would have been even more of an eyeful!

[Peter Morley]

Yes, but the way all the Marlboro-sponsored cars are displayed is a bit mind-numbing, don't you think?

I know what you mean (but the anorak in me would probably try to spot the differences between them!) there is a seen one seen them all feeling.
Same with all the Schlumpf Bugattis, they have jumbled them up a bit now, you used to think why not at least paint one of them a different colour!
Mixing some other cars amongst the McLarens would make it more visually stimulating.

But we are really lucky to be able to see them, there are only 3 or 4 people outside McLaren who have an MP series F1 car and they tend to keep them locked away.

[petestenning]

My favorite is still the McLaren M21 the Jody Scheckter F2 car just looks right .



Pete

[Gregor Marshall]

Most of the Mclarens aren't Marlboro-sponsored though - they go back to Mclaren once a year to be serviced and come back minus Marlboro sponsorship.
Donington have sold a few cars recently (5 that I know if including the Porsche F1 car) but then they have added some more (I'd love to see more of the basement!!).
Hopefully nothing will change there for a while and for those that have been recently make sure you go again - you might think you've taken it all in but trust me, each time you go back you see something else - I've been about 6 times in the last 18 months and every time I go through the whole collection and still see something new!!