1324 replies to this topic

[HEMEYLA]

I don't know why it is called Rudge, it's the 80cc Van Veen Kreidler with Nico Bakker frame ridden by Ian McConnachie in the 1983 European Championship. Link

[50cc racer]

Right again, Ton

Current owner Chris Alty tells the story:

This is one of two factory Kreidlers purchased directly from Rittberger in the early 1980s, included in the sale was a race van! A considerable price was paid for the bikes and van and the new owner was a British business man and 50 racer named Mike Cook. I know all of this to be true as I know one of the men directly involved in the purchase and he collected the bikes and van from Rittbergers house. One of the bikes had a standard bore and stroke and there was a short stroke and this is the bike I now own. Mike Cook owned the rights to the RUDGE- name, the once famous British marque, and decided to paint both of the bikes black and gold and raced them as RUDGE racers in the British and European championships for a number of years. I believe his main rider to have been Ian McConnachie who later raced 80cc Krausers and went on to ride bigger bikes. The bike disappeared into a private collection until 1997, when a friend of mine purchased it still in RUDGE colours. It was then restored and put back to its Kreidler colour scheme. I have owned the bike for three years and it brings me great pleasure and i still race it when i can. I believe the bike to have been raced by Doerflinger and have included a few period pics of the bike at a gp in the early 80s and it painted in its RUDGE colours. I have been told that the other bike is in a collection in japan but I can not confirm this. Nico Bakker made the frame and swingarm and the bike has many special parts .

Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the mentioned second machine?


50cc racer

[ESSEXBOY]

1964 DERBI CARRERA 50cc EX-JACQUE ROCA 15,000 EUROS "The bike you have chosen can not be found."

thanks T54 for the expert knowledge and going to effort of correcting the mis-information

glad i posted the link on the this thread now...i am such a fish!!!!!

well done

[50cc racer]

Brake cooling optimised?





50cc racer

[exclubracer]

A Spondon Kreidler 50 on sale on evilbay.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...C...A1|240:1318

[50cc racer]

exclubracer: A Spondon Kreidler 50 on sale on evilbay.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...D...A1|240:1318

This one got a very special hi- reving engine !!!
Thanks for the link


50cc racer

[Paul Rochdale]

What a superbly streamlined fairing it has. Is it me or do those wheel rims look like steel ones. Surely not?

[exclubracer]

Originally posted by Paul Rochdale
What a superbly streamlined fairing it has. Is it me or do those wheel rims look like steel ones. Surely not?

I reckon ally rims Paul, every gram saved is vital on these tiddlers. Maybe a recent re-spoke also?

Agree on the fairing, lovely design

[rene 50cc]

These rims are steel for sure,wrong rims probably 17 inch(should be 18 inch)and modern rubber also.
notice also how far the engine is in front and how long the swingarm is,that cannopt be right.
the fairing looks very wide to me,why?
rene

[exclubracer]

Originally posted by rene 50cc
These rims are steel for sure,wrong rims probably 17 inch(should be 18 inch)and modern rubber also.
notice also how far the engine is in front and how long the swingarm is,that cannopt be right.
the fairing looks very wide to me,why?
rene

Rene, were steel rims normal on the 50's? I would have thought that alloy rims would be used for the slight weight saving

[rene 50cc]

Steel rims are not normal.
Only in the beginning of the 50cc class are steel rims used,probably alloy rims were not availeble in those days or to expansive.
But that was in the late Fifties and the early sixties,later it was all alloy rims and 18 inch size.
In front 18x1.2 and rear 18x1.4 was normally used.
But in the U.K. i dont know what was in use on 50cc racers,i have seen the most strange machines come by of the kind we in Holland never used
René

[50cc racer]

Who, where, and when?





50cc racer

[50cc racer]

Who. where, and when?



And again?




50cc racer

[Russell Burrows]

10 is a CR110 Honda. Is it the short circuit at Cadwell Park around mid to late sixties?

[50cc racer]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
10 is a CR110 Honda. Is it the short circuit at Cadwell Park around mid to late sixties?

Honda yes, Cadwell Park yes, 1970 yes, but who?



50cc racer

[Russell Burrows]

Frank Whiteway number 4..... er, Chris Vincent on the Honda and 5, George Ashton ? Or perhaps 5 is Whiteway?

[50cc racer]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Frank Whiteway number 4..... er, Chris Vincent on the Honda and 5, George Ashton ?

Frank Whiteway (Crooks Suzuki) number 5 is right



50cc racer

[Russell Burrows]

I promise I posted my edit before I saw your response...honest

[Russell Burrows]

Final punt - Charlie Mates on the CR110 ?

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Who. where, and when?



And again?




50cc racer

Is number 1 Janson and 5 Herero ?

[Herr Wankel]

Arthur Lawn on the Honda?
HW

[jeff sayle]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


Is number 1 Janson and 5 Herero ?

I am 99% sure it is Hockenheim.
Is No 1 Barry Smith???

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by jeff sayle


I am 99% sure it is Hockenheim.
Is No 1 Barry Smith???

Top one of the two is defo Hockenheim and I would guess the lower shot is taken in Jarama. Is #6 in the second pic Theo V D B?

[HEMEYLA]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Who. where, and when?



And again?




50cc racer

First pic Hockenheim 1969, #1. Florjan Stefe ?? @ Tomos sure, #5. Santiago Herrero @ Derbi, #3. Gilberto Parlotti @ Tomos

Second pic Jarama 1969, #6. Jan de Vries @ Kreidler, #21. Gilberto Parlotti @ Tomos, #30. Eugenio Lazzarini ?? @ Morbidelli

And Aalt Toersen @ Kreidler winner from both races, pic from Le Mans 1969 Bugatti circuit which race he also won.

[50cc racer]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Who, where, and when?





50cc racer

5 and leading: Frank Whiteway Crooks Suzuki, 10: Arthur Lawn CR110, 4: Chris Walpole Garelli.

Next pic: 69 Hockenheim and the guys : Stefe, Herrero, and Parlotti.

And then: 69 Jarama: DeVries, Parlotti, and a strong showing af a small Italian marque ?
Tip: notice the wide bulgy fairing ;)



50cc racer

[50cc racer]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Agostini is talking to ?



50cc racer

Just learned from my friend Göran Kähler of Sweden, that Agostini is talking to Franco Ringhini, (the constructor of the elegant 50cc Morbidelli), just after the completion of the 1969 East- German GP at Sachsenring.
Ringhini was tenth and team mate Lazzarini sixth.
It turns out that Göran took this special photo!



50cc racer

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Frank Whiteway number 4..... er, Chris Vincent on the Honda and 5, George Ashton ? Or perhaps 5 is Whiteway?

Wow you made me proud Russell thinking I was a IoM tt sidecar winner,although I knew Chris Vincent in my racing days 1958 to 1972. Still in touch with Frank Whiteway and Chris Walpole even though we're all approaching 70 years of age fast but all of us are still messing around with motorcycles and enjoying our retirements.
Never enjoyed a retirement in my racing days although I had plenty of them especially at the
Isle of Man TT must have left more scrap metal round that circuit than anyone.

[HEMEYLA]

The right time for a little question, who knows what SiVo racing means ? Link

I have to exclude you for this race Arthur.

[50cc racer]

Who, where, and when?



Rider No. 9 supplied this picture



50cc racer

[50cc racer]

Who, where, and what is special about this particular start?



Picture supplied by rider no. 28?



50cc racer

[HEMEYLA]

The special thing seems to be the "clutch start".

[Herr Wankel]

Hi,
50cc TT,only time a massed start was used in IOM tt
HW

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Herr Wankel
Hi,
50cc TT,only time a massed start was used in IOM tt
HW

What year was thar Herr? Just show´s, one lives and learns. I wasn´t aware there had ever been a mass start in the IOM.

[Herr Wankel]

Hi Rhodie,
Might be wrong but I thought all 50cc TTs were massed start.Sadly never got to see one as I was just starting my life on motorcycles when the 50s were discontinued at the TT.Bet Quarter Bridge was entertaining on the 1st lap.Arthur will tell us I hope.
Regards HW

[Herr Wankel]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Who, where, and what is special about this particular start?



Picture supplied by rider no. 28?

This is testing the grey stuff! Looks a bit like Nieto's helmet No.4 so would have to be '68,last 50 TT.10 is Barrie Dickinson-Garelli,16 Is that you Arthur? 35 bit vague but may be Fran Redfern CR110 in JCB colours.Probably Chris W. on 7 (CR110)
Need a lie down now!
HW



50cc racer

[HEMEYLA]

The grey stuff works well Herr Wankel, i agree with 1968, #4 Angel Nieto and #16 Arthur Lawn, but the rest of the guys is another piece of cake for me.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Who, where, and what is special about this particular start?



Picture supplied by rider no. 28?



50cc racer

1968 was the last 50cc Isle of man TT and the last TT using a mass start.Just looked up some programme records and the first mass start was the 1966 50cc TT previous to that the 50cc TT was started in pairs at 10 sec.intervals
Riders in the pictures were from numbers can identify
12 David Lock 16 Myself 7 robin Undall 22 Stan Lawley 10 Stuart Aspin 36 Luke Lawlor
29 Jim Pink 15 Don Juler 14 Les Griffith 23 Alan Harlow 4 In programme as Angelo Nieto but for reasons unknown he did'nt come so who is on No 4 unknown 21 D Harlow 25 B Boyd 35 Francis Redfern and finally No 1 the winner Barry Smith works Derbi
I believe there are some other runners ahead and outside the camera shot.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Herr Wankel
Hi Rhodie,
Might be wrong but I thought all 50cc TTs were massed start.Sadly never got to see one as I was just starting my life on motorcycles when the 50s were discontinued at the TT.Bet Quarter Bridge was entertaining on the 1st lap.Arthur will tell us I hope.
Regards HW

Your partly right Herr Mass start of the 50cc TT race started in 1966 and continued in 1967 and 1968 Previous to that they were paired start at 10 sec interval.
Can't help re conjestion at Quarter Bridge as after being 3rd fastest in practice I was bitterly disappointed to have the Honda drop a valve in and wreck the engine at the bottom of Bray Hill on the 1st lap
Regards Arthur

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Arthur

Wow you made me proud Russell thinking I was a IoM tt sidecar winner,although I knew Chris Vincent in my racing days 1958 to 1972. Still in touch with Frank Whiteway and Chris Walpole even though we're all approaching 70 years of age fast but all of us are still messing around with motorcycles and enjoying our retirements.
Never enjoyed a retirement in my racing days although I had plenty of them especially at the
Isle of Man TT must have left more scrap metal round that circuit than anyone.

Youre Welcome Arthur......Be good to hear from you on what it was like to ride one of those CR110's , or about your racing generally. What did you start on in '58?

[Herr Wankel]

Originally posted by Arthur

Your partly right Herr Mass start of the 50cc TT race started in 1966 and continued in 1967 and 1968 Previous to that they were paired start at 10 sec interval.
Can't help re conjestion at Quarter Bridge as after being 3rd fastest in practice I was bitterly disappointed to have the Honda drop a valve in and wreck the engine at the bottom of Bray Hill on the 1st lap

Regards Arthur

Blimey Arthur,didn't realise that your race was so short.And not in IOM tradition of breaking down at a pub.Was Alf (Briggs) in charge of the parts at Honda then?I remember buying a couple of exhaust valves from him in about '71.Ridiculously cheap.What was your fastest practice lap if you don't mind me asking?The helmet style of No.4 looks very like Nieto.As you say he was entered,I wonder who the imposter was.
All the best HW
ps did you pick up my personal message from a while ago?

[Russell Burrows]

Originally posted by Herr Wankel

Blimey Arthur,didn't realise that your race was so short.And not in IOM tradition of breaking down at a pub.Was Alf (Briggs) in charge of the parts at Honda then?I remember buying a couple of exhaust valves from him in about '71.Ridiculously cheap.What was your fastest practice lap if you don't mind me asking?The helmet style of No.4 looks very like Nieto.As you say he was entered,I wonder who the imposter was.
All the best HW
ps did you pick up my personal message from a while ago?

Were you also a CR110 jockey Herr?

[Herr Wankel]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows


Were you also a CR110 jockey Herr?

Hi Russell,
Yes I had a couple of years on one.What a grand little bike.Never achieved fame(or fortune) but enjoyed it immensley

HW

[Russell Burrows]

Nice aerodynamic fairing.......diffucult to ride?

[larryd]

Sorry Arthur - according to the "TT Special" Angel Nieto did start in the 1968 50cc TT, but fell off at Baaregarroo bottom (ouch!!) on lap one.

Not hurt (!!)

[Arthur]

Originally posted by larryd
Sorry Arthur - according to the "TT Special" Angel Nieto did start in the 1968 50cc TT, but fell off at Baaregarroo bottom (ouch!!) on lap one.

Not hurt (!!)

Larry
I accept your greater knowledge than me.I thought he had pulled out and it was in my mind at the time that Rudolf Kunz and Barry Smith were the only 2 riders with works support thus if both broke down I fancied my chances.Like an idiot I reved my machine beyond its limits Honda recommended 13k I went to 16k which was not unusreal but after being faultless in practise it decided to drop a valve in and seized at the bottom of Bray
Hence Angel Nieto got further than me. Great fun and great days were the 60s racing on a shoestring but you would know that Larry
I used to do the TT in the 60s for around £100 for the fortnight including superb guest house accomodation with a workshop, early morning call with toast and a cup of tea, and breakfast and evening meal, Thank you Mrs Jackson Hillary Park

[Herr Wankel]

Originally posted by Russell Burrows
Nice aerodynamic fairing.......diffucult to ride?

Hi Russell,
Not really difficult,once you got accustomed to the 8 speed box,(double anything else I had ridden)having said that, finished last in my 1st race on it at Darley (could have cried) but also had my 1st win on it the same season--steep learning curve.Had to be precise and not rush upward changes.Chain tension was crucial to positive changes on mine.It had also had the original footrest brackets removed by a previous owner and the pegs were set a little furthur back on the swinging arm.You had to careful not to come down the box from 'flat chat' into a dead slow corner too fast to avoid over revving.As Arthur said,they would go to 16,000 reliably but needed to be 'looked at ' a bit more often if using these revs.They were I think a most 'Complete' racing bike though,perhaps a bit on the heavy side,but steered/handled very well,and so reliable (normaly).I think the fairing on mine was a Bone item,kind of along the lines of the Kreidler type,but I bought it with the original (and seat)
HW

[ex Rhodie racer]

Originally posted by Herr Wankel


Hi Russell,
Not really difficult,once you got accustomed to the 8 speed box,(double anything else I had ridden)having said that, finished last in my 1st race on it at Darley (could have cried) but also had my 1st win on it the same season--steep learning curve.Had to be precise and not rush upward changes.Chain tension was crucial to positive changes on mine.It had also had the original footrest brackets removed by a previous owner and the pegs were set a little furthur back on the swinging arm.You had to careful not to come down the box from 'flat chat' into a dead slow corner too fast to avoid over revving.As Arthur said,they would go to 16,000 reliably but needed to be 'looked at ' a bit more often if using these revs.They were I think a most 'Complete' racing bike though,perhaps a bit on the heavy side,but steered/handled very well,and so reliable (normaly).I think the fairing on mine was a Bone item,kind of along the lines of the Kreidler type,but I bought it with the original (and seat)
HW

And didn´t that barking megaphone sound oh so sweet?

[exclubracer]

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer

And didn´t that barking megaphone sound oh so sweet?

Brilliant, there's a youtube clip at the start finish straight at Oulton and the sound going down the box for Old Hall corner is awesome, even for a stinkwheel fanatic like me!

Must find it and post the link.

[renzo]

i'd give my right testicle to have one of these



hell'i'd give em both!

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Herr Wankel

Blimey Arthur,didn't realise that your race was so short.And not in IOM tradition of breaking down at a pub.Was Alf (Briggs) in charge of the parts at Honda then?I remember buying a couple of exhaust valves from him in about '71.Ridiculously cheap.What was your fastest practice lap if you don't mind me asking?The helmet style of No.4 looks very like Nieto.As you say he was entered,I wonder who the imposter was.
All the best HW
ps did you pick up my personal message from a while ago?

Sorry Herr only just read your message.Yes Alf Briggs who incidently passed away last year,was the man in charge.He treated me well and provided me plenty of free parts to keep my machine in peak condition during 1970 when I was challenging Frank Whiteway on the Susuki for the ACU British title.Unfortunatly I could not come up with the goods for Honda but that was mainly due to Frank being a superb rider.his record speak for itself, but there I gave him a good run for his money Frank 99 pts Me 114 pts best six Frank 87 Me 78.
Ca'nt remember my fastest practise lap but it was the last session and around 69/70mph sticks in my mind.