Photographed in Adelaide many years ago . I think it was one of Doug Trengoves last Cicada cars. It looks like Doug and his sons. Can anybody shed some light on this.
Edited by gray chandler, 03 January 2011 - 11:23.
Mystery Clubman
Started by
gray chandler
, Jan 03 2011 09:59
25 replies to this topic
#1
gray chandler
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 09:59
Photographed in Adelaide many years ago . I think it was one of Doug Trengoves last Cicada cars. It looks like Doug and his sons. Can anybody shed some light on this.
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#2
Ray Bell
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:22
34 was certainly the number used by Colin Trengove...
So there's some likelihood there. But the shape is more reminiscent of something else, I don't quite remember, especially the back of the car.
As for the dating, full width rollover bars became mandatory about 1972 or 1973, so it's prior to '73 at least.
So there's some likelihood there. But the shape is more reminiscent of something else, I don't quite remember, especially the back of the car.
As for the dating, full width rollover bars became mandatory about 1972 or 1973, so it's prior to '73 at least.
#3
gray chandler
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:35
34 was certainly the number used by Colin Trengove...
So there's some likelihood there. But the shape is more reminiscent of something else, I don't quite remember, especially the back of the car.
As for the dating, full width rollover bars became mandatory about 1972 or 1973, so it's prior to '73 at least.
Ray, the rear of the car is reminiscent of the ASP 340
Edited by gray chandler, 03 January 2011 - 11:20.
#4
Ray Bell
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 11:46
Of course it is...
Especially when painted yellow and red.
Especially when painted yellow and red.
#5
2Bob
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 22:06
Of course it is...
Especially when painted yellow and red.
Jim Doig has told me:
"I couldn’t find any photos of the car
But basic shape is identical to mine,
Front pick up point in same place
Look like ASP wheels."
He will send me a couple of photos 'soon'.
It would have been called a Cicada I would think.
#6
Ray Bell
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Posted 03 January 2011 - 23:06
Tania would know...
I'll see if I can draw her attention to this thread.
I'll see if I can draw her attention to this thread.
#7
2Bob
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 05:25
Photos from Jim Doig's ASP original Logbook. Note role bar - disdn't run that for long. Major differences would be the chassis rails on Jim's car stay horizontal past the cockpit, and the mudguards. Jim's car is a Group C ie not a clubman and ran doors (not shown in the following 2 photos). Taken at AIR, presumably for first 'shake down', no mirrors or doors.
Showing doors. This photo from 2007
This car ran a Ford 1600 initially and later on went to a Celica 1600 (and bigger) - now back to 1600 running in Group Q historics. The Cicada looks to have a Corolla - presumably would be 1300 as a clubman.
Showing doors. This photo from 2007
This car ran a Ford 1600 initially and later on went to a Celica 1600 (and bigger) - now back to 1600 running in Group Q historics. The Cicada looks to have a Corolla - presumably would be 1300 as a clubman.
Edited by 2Bob, 04 January 2011 - 05:28.
#8
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 07:35
I thought that grandpas axe at least had the original roll bar and now I discover even that is not original!!
#9
Ray Bell
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 07:55
That's why they keep changing the rules, Lee...
So people have to keep changing the cars!
So people have to keep changing the cars!
#10
tania34
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 13:50
Ray, got your e-mail regarding this "mystery clubman". I do know that Doug worked at ASP during the early 70's, and your right about the ASP wheels.Tania would know...
I'll see if I can draw her attention to this thread.
The front does look look like a 340, but the back is ugly.
The photo is definately Doug and it could be Michael, definately not Colin though. They both used 34 as a race number.
I will see what I can find out.
#11
Ray Bell
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 20:15
While you're at it, Tania...
Whose is the Honda N600? Or is it an N360?
Whose is the Honda N600? Or is it an N360?
#12
tania34
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 23:46
You are funny, I'm not the walking encyclopedia, like you!!!!While you're at it, Tania...
Whose is the Honda N600? Or is it an N360?
I would have no idea, I think it was a bit before my time with Colin.
#13
Ray Bell
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Posted 04 January 2011 - 23:57
Ah well... a bloke can but try...
And at least we got a pic of Doug onto the forum here, thanks to Gray.
And at least we got a pic of Doug onto the forum here, thanks to Gray.
#14
2Bob
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Posted 05 January 2011 - 00:30
I pointed this thread out to Rory Thompson, designer of ASPs 'in the day' and now owner/operator of ASPs where they still make clubbie type cars
(see http://asp-racing.com/index.html)
Got the following comments back from him (quoted with his permission):
"Doug built this car whilst working for us at ASP.
Used all suspension and some chassis from 340C
The fotos were taken in the back street, Jessie road Kensington, behind ASP workshop.
I have fotos of it when painted at Mallala.
Doug also built an F3 ASP 330 whilst working at Alpha Street. (Ray house, Alpha house, was the first in Kensington, hence Alpha Street, and Alpha Sports Productions...ASP>)
J. Rory Thompson MIEAust. CPEng. (2180308) B. Tech. Mech. (A) M. Eng. Sc's. Materials Welding & Joining Mob 0414 94 8028 Fax. 08 8258 0796"
and later:
"I know where the fotos were taken as the brickwork and sliding door were our main entry to rays workshop.
Aluminium bodywork by Colin Rielley and may even have been the masters used to make Jims 340b moulds!"
Rory will send me the photos he has 'ASAP'. I will then post here.
(see http://asp-racing.com/index.html)
Got the following comments back from him (quoted with his permission):
"Doug built this car whilst working for us at ASP.
Used all suspension and some chassis from 340C
The fotos were taken in the back street, Jessie road Kensington, behind ASP workshop.
I have fotos of it when painted at Mallala.
Doug also built an F3 ASP 330 whilst working at Alpha Street. (Ray house, Alpha house, was the first in Kensington, hence Alpha Street, and Alpha Sports Productions...ASP>)
J. Rory Thompson MIEAust. CPEng. (2180308) B. Tech. Mech. (A) M. Eng. Sc's. Materials Welding & Joining Mob 0414 94 8028 Fax. 08 8258 0796"
and later:
"I know where the fotos were taken as the brickwork and sliding door were our main entry to rays workshop.
Aluminium bodywork by Colin Rielley and may even have been the masters used to make Jims 340b moulds!"
Rory will send me the photos he has 'ASAP'. I will then post here.
#15
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 January 2011 - 01:52
And he didn't know who owned the Honda?
Shame on him!
Shame on him!
#16
2Bob
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Posted 05 January 2011 - 04:43
And he didn't know who owned the Honda?
Shame on him!
Didn't actually ask him (I assume you mean Rory).
This is the photo from Rory. (Actually I have a feeling I sent it to him in the first place....)
Pretty sure that this is the car that Malcolm and Blake Miller used to run in the 1990s as an ASP clubman.
Upper whishbone pick up point looks sort of halfway between an ASP 340c and 340b.
#17
tania34
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Posted 05 January 2011 - 11:20
And he didn't know who owned the Honda?
Shame on him!
Dont give up hope Ray, early days yet
#18
Ray Bell
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Posted 05 January 2011 - 12:35
It's half the fun, Tania...
Like the pic in the AGP book at Leyburn shows a Chrysler Airflow. I thought nothing of it until one day someone told me whose it was.
Like the pic in the AGP book at Leyburn shows a Chrysler Airflow. I thought nothing of it until one day someone told me whose it was.
#19
jeremy durward
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Posted 09 January 2011 - 07:35
I'll have to ask my dad about this one, he would have been hanging around these guys back then. it's interesting though, it is so close to doigs car until you look at a few of the details. like the bits of body that cover the top of the front suspension on all the 340 asps.
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#20
smeetsie
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Posted 21 January 2011 - 04:30
G'day all
The Cicada clubman appears to be the one raced by Mike Trengove and Mike Drewer. It had a Corolla motor, but unusually a Ford TwinCam Escort gearbox. I raced against him in my Nganti/Scotcher Ford Group A sports car many times. The Nganti frame was a Doug Trengove creation too....mid engined fashioned after Cicada Ford - which I think Les Schebbel owns in Sydney.
I also owned, around this time the Cicada BMC which had been upgraded with ASP looking aluminium nose and fibreglass back end by a young fellow who worked at ASP. I bought it from Mike Drewer for the Doug Trengove wheels to use on the Competition Cars of Australia/built by Tony Simmons, (ex Trevor Lewis U2 Corolla) I was restoring. Boy that car was tiny...the Cicada BMC. I don't know how David Armstrong or even Doug Trengove ever got into to it ...let alone raced it so successfully.
Actually if you read this Ray Bell, Mike Trengove drove a F5000 too I think you will find.
SMEETSIE
The Cicada clubman appears to be the one raced by Mike Trengove and Mike Drewer. It had a Corolla motor, but unusually a Ford TwinCam Escort gearbox. I raced against him in my Nganti/Scotcher Ford Group A sports car many times. The Nganti frame was a Doug Trengove creation too....mid engined fashioned after Cicada Ford - which I think Les Schebbel owns in Sydney.
I also owned, around this time the Cicada BMC which had been upgraded with ASP looking aluminium nose and fibreglass back end by a young fellow who worked at ASP. I bought it from Mike Drewer for the Doug Trengove wheels to use on the Competition Cars of Australia/built by Tony Simmons, (ex Trevor Lewis U2 Corolla) I was restoring. Boy that car was tiny...the Cicada BMC. I don't know how David Armstrong or even Doug Trengove ever got into to it ...let alone raced it so successfully.
Actually if you read this Ray Bell, Mike Trengove drove a F5000 too I think you will find.
SMEETSIE
#21
dct
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Posted 24 January 2011 - 00:01
The original photo (unpainted) was taken in rostrevor avenue (Doug lived) and the Honda is a "scamp" which Michael Trengove owned. This is the cicada clubman which was painted purple oringinally and Michael had a crash at AIR which put it out of action, after being repaired was painted brookland blue with different tail and full rollbar etc. I understand this was bought buy Mike Drewer and last I know og was Alexander Downer (ex Foreign minister) owned the car, I met him on the My Lofty golf course just after Rudd got in. The car was mainly built in Doug's shed at rostrevor. A second cicada clubman was built by Doug but a road going version, don't know who for.
The clubman ran a 1300 corolla motor, was the go for clubmans, and Mike drove it at the Clubman nationals at oran park (don't know the date) but put a hole in the block apparently some bolts were faulty from the supplier.
David
The clubman ran a 1300 corolla motor, was the go for clubmans, and Mike drove it at the Clubman nationals at oran park (don't know the date) but put a hole in the block apparently some bolts were faulty from the supplier.
David
#22
Ray Bell
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Posted 24 January 2011 - 02:10
Thank you, David... and nice of you to join us...
Yes, the Corolla was pretty much the gear for Clubmans, but there was a heavy reliance on the CAMS' acceptance of modifications to the head that were basically illegal for other engines. Datsun 1200s were pretty close to as powerful and stronger, Fords were good if you spent enough money on them.
It would have been nice of someone had developed a good Fiat 128 motor, but it never happened, though there was a Pulsar engine that went very quickly and a Galant raced in a Farrell that Rod Carroll bought in Melbourne and then bundled up at Amaroo. It was constantly blowing oil filters apart!
Yes, the Corolla was pretty much the gear for Clubmans, but there was a heavy reliance on the CAMS' acceptance of modifications to the head that were basically illegal for other engines. Datsun 1200s were pretty close to as powerful and stronger, Fords were good if you spent enough money on them.
It would have been nice of someone had developed a good Fiat 128 motor, but it never happened, though there was a Pulsar engine that went very quickly and a Galant raced in a Farrell that Rod Carroll bought in Melbourne and then bundled up at Amaroo. It was constantly blowing oil filters apart!
#23
tania34
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Posted 26 January 2011 - 16:28
[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Jan 24 2011, 14:10' post='4798795']
Thank you, David... and nice of you to join us...
Well there you go Ray as I said, it was early days and now your question has been answered.
Thank you, David... and nice of you to join us...
Well there you go Ray as I said, it was early days and now your question has been answered.
#24
Ray Bell
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Posted 26 January 2011 - 17:07
And I suspect you had a hand in it?
Nothing like knowing who it was owned those Hondas...
Nothing like knowing who it was owned those Hondas...
#25
tania34
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Posted 30 January 2011 - 13:52
Sorry to tell you Ray, but no I had nothing to do with it.And I suspect you had a hand in it?
I must say that this forum is the best place to find people, and the information that is exchanged is amazing.
I trolled the pages for months before becoming a member. It's funny how suddenly something comes up and you find you want to get involved.
#26
DNR
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Posted 24 April 2011 - 13:33
I am interested where you got those pics from.
The one of the 34 car is definately Doug, the bloke standing on the left of the car was a lad that worked at ASP {can not remember his name but will check} and the other bloke is me. From memory it was taken mid 1971 after it's first run at collingrove hill climb.
This car is Doug's first cicada with a corolla engine and was completed before he started with ASP. He stored it/worked on it at ASP workshop after he started there.
The problem was the top ball joint design using a tie rod end, and I was working out with Doug to machine up some new housings to take a spherical ball joint to replace them as I did quite a few little machining jobs at the company where I was doing my apprenticeship for him.
The top pic is of the clubman that was finished after Doug left ASP and from what I have been told by his daughter it was called a cicada/asp. The chassis was build 3 or 4 years earlier but never finished until this time. It included suspension design changes and body panel changes. The car was finished in Doug's shed at home where this pic was taken.
Doug had the chassis hanging in his shed pre full width roll bar ,hence the hoop bar, but this was changed later after some repairs.
I know that Micheal raced it and I believe that Colin also drove it before he started racing F 5000's.
As for the "ASP wheels" these were designed and made by Doug long before he started at ASP, and when he started with them, Ray and Rory bought the design and patterns off Doug. They are fitted to the cicada BMC as well.
The one of the 34 car is definately Doug, the bloke standing on the left of the car was a lad that worked at ASP {can not remember his name but will check} and the other bloke is me. From memory it was taken mid 1971 after it's first run at collingrove hill climb.
This car is Doug's first cicada with a corolla engine and was completed before he started with ASP. He stored it/worked on it at ASP workshop after he started there.
The problem was the top ball joint design using a tie rod end, and I was working out with Doug to machine up some new housings to take a spherical ball joint to replace them as I did quite a few little machining jobs at the company where I was doing my apprenticeship for him.
The top pic is of the clubman that was finished after Doug left ASP and from what I have been told by his daughter it was called a cicada/asp. The chassis was build 3 or 4 years earlier but never finished until this time. It included suspension design changes and body panel changes. The car was finished in Doug's shed at home where this pic was taken.
Doug had the chassis hanging in his shed pre full width roll bar ,hence the hoop bar, but this was changed later after some repairs.
I know that Micheal raced it and I believe that Colin also drove it before he started racing F 5000's.
As for the "ASP wheels" these were designed and made by Doug long before he started at ASP, and when he started with them, Ray and Rory bought the design and patterns off Doug. They are fitted to the cicada BMC as well.
