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Sportscar racing in the South; from Texas to Florida
Started by
Jerry Entin
, Feb 26 2011 18:11
199 replies to this topic
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#102
Vettefinderjim
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Posted 06 May 2011 - 19:35
Jerry, the following photos were taken on June 4, 1957 at Eagle Mountain. Dr. Dick Thompson also drove this Corvette , the former red Bill Mitchell 1956 SR-2. I believe he won that day.
A surprise Feature winner of the 1957 SCCA National at Eagle Mountain: Dick Thompson in a production Corvette.
Driving a Lindsey Hopkins Corvette, Dick Thompson won Race 4 for big production cars during the National. Because of the wet weather, mechanic Red Byron changed the axle ratio of the car before the Feature, Race 8. In spite of a strong field of Ferraris, Maseratis and Porsches, Thompson caused a major upset by beating all the modifieds.
Note the nice 1957 Chevys in the background.
Photo: Bob Jackson
This car was also raced at Sebring March 23, 1957 (black and white GM Archive photo) by Pete Lovely and Paul O'Shea. They finished 1st in class C/M and 16th OA.
The history I have is that EB ROSE from Houston bought both 57 Production white Corvettes (sponsored by Lindsey Hopkins at Sebring) and the Red SR-2 shown here either at race end or day AFTER Sebring. The Artic Blue 57 production car in your photo belonged to Dick Doane, and his Chevrolet dealership. The "Flying Dentist" drove Doane's car the balance of 1957 AFTER Sebring.
NOW.......HOW DO I POST THESE PHOTOS IN A LARGER FORMAT? I HAVE CHANGED THEM TREE TIMES !!
#103
RA Historian
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Posted 06 May 2011 - 19:44
Some clarification, please. Thompson did win the 1957 Eagle Mountain SCCA National outright and overall, but it is my understanding that he drove a regular B Production Corvette to the win, not the C Modified Corvette SR-2.Jerry, the following photos were taken on June 4, 1957 at Eagle Mountain. Dr. Dick Thompson also drove this Corvette , the former red Bill Mitchell 1956 SR-2. I believe he won that day.
Tom
#104
Tim Murray
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Posted 06 May 2011 - 20:00
Jim, when you've uploaded the photo into Imageshack you need to copy and paste the link called 'Forum Code', not any of the thumbnail options. You can alter a thumbnail link so that it appears full-size by deleting the '.th' just before the jpg bit in the photo URL, like so:NOW.......HOW DO I POST THESE PHOTOS IN A LARGER FORMAT? I HAVE CHANGED THEM TREE TIMES !!
Edited by Tim Murray, 06 May 2011 - 20:09.
#105
Jerry Entin
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:35
Tom is absolutely right. Dick Thompson never drove the SR- 2. His car was entered by Lindsey Hopkins of Miami in the June 1957 SCCA National at Eagle Mountain. It was a production car and Thompson took it to victory in Race 4 for production cars and in the Feature, a major upset. Dick Doane may have owned the car after this event [if at all], but certainly not during.
It was Ebb Rose who raced the SR-2 at Eagle Mountain that weekend. He bought the car for a nominal sum from GM after Sebring 1957. There are plenty of Eagle Mountain photos to prove the above in Willem Oosthoek's new Southern book, as well as in the multiple period race reports.
Incidentally, Willem's book is now available and can be purchased via www.daltonwatson.com or, for autographed copies, willemoosthoek@aol.com [U.S. orders only due to the additional cost of overseas shipping].
Jim: Your third photo was not taken at Eagle Mountain, but at Galveston in 1957.
It was Ebb Rose who raced the SR-2 at Eagle Mountain that weekend. He bought the car for a nominal sum from GM after Sebring 1957. There are plenty of Eagle Mountain photos to prove the above in Willem Oosthoek's new Southern book, as well as in the multiple period race reports.
Incidentally, Willem's book is now available and can be purchased via www.daltonwatson.com or, for autographed copies, willemoosthoek@aol.com [U.S. orders only due to the additional cost of overseas shipping].
Jim: Your third photo was not taken at Eagle Mountain, but at Galveston in 1957.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 07 May 2011 - 22:13.
#106
Jerry Entin
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Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:58
Joe: Here is a story of one of the cars:
http://www.conceptca...etti-coupe.aspx
http://www.conceptca...etti-coupe.aspx
Edited by Jerry Entin, 07 May 2011 - 04:05.
#107
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:05
These guys are all ex sportscar racers and here are some of the cars they came in.
Willem Oosthoek's new book on Sports Car Racing in the South had its official launch at the Texas Sports Car Reunion in West Fort Worth, Texas on May 14. The event took place at Soldier Creek Ranch, owned by former SCCA exec and race driver J. David Jones and his wife Sherri.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 11:31.
#108
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:11
Among the attendees were Sandy and Jim Hall, seen here with Bob Schroeder, who three days earlier celebrated his 85th birthday.
They are looking at Willem Oosthoek's new book: Sportscar Racing in the South
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 01:16.
#109
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:17
Glenna Lamb, who was married to the late race driver Ed Lamb, and Bill Janowski, well known for the car he built and raced: the Janowski Special, later renamed the Monsterati. It is still a regular entry at the Monterey Historics.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 01:21.
#110
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:22
Dallas Chevrolet dealer, and Corvette and Jaguar/Chevy racer Delmo Johnson had a great time at the Reunion. He does not show up in Volume One of the Southern book, since his first race appearance only came in 1959.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 01:25.
#111
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 01:26
Coming down from Oklahoma was Enus "Sonny" Wilson, who raced a Corvette and various Maseratis [including two Birdcages] around the Southwest. Enus' last race came at Sebring in 1964, racing a Chevy-powered Iso Corsa with Bill McLaughlin.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 01:30.
#112
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:03
Frank Lance was also at the event thats John Matlack next to Frank.
In his days Frank Lance wrenched for a number of different teams: Jim Hall, Ebb Rose and A.J. Foyt.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 21:16.
#113
Jerry Entin
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:12
Just like in the good old days: photographer Bob Jackson, Jim Hall, Sandy Hall, Bob Schroeder, Frank lance and Delmo Johnson.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 May 2011 - 11:17.
#114
Cynic2
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Posted 18 May 2011 - 17:16
I've had a copy of the book for a week now, and it's utterly fantastic! It's a narrow subject, perhaps, but the amount of research is stunning, with every event of the period, and photos from every event. Willem's commentary is extremely readable, and all in all it's a first-class book. My only criticism is that I'm way behind on writing, e-mails, editing, etc., as I spend far too much time picking up the book and getting caught up in a car or a race. It can be extremely addictive.
Congratulations to Willem!
David
Congratulations to Willem!
David
#115
Jerry Entin
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 00:06
J.C. Kilburn posing with the trophy he received after winning the production Feature of the Carrera de la Capital at Austin, Texas, in August 1963. His car was a Corvette just purchased from Delmo Johnson. The modified race went to Enus Wislon and his purple Birdcage Maserati.
J.C. Kilburn, A Hardcastle and Bob Schroeder going through the photo collection on dsiplay in the garage of R. David Jones. In the background, holding a photo, is Jimmy Hall, son of Big Jim Hall of Houston
Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 May 2011 - 00:25.
#116
Jerry Entin
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:47
Willis Murphey of Fort Worth
Another early sixties racer was Willis Murphey of Fort Worth. He raced his 250TR Ferrari [chassis 0724] with a Chevy engine since Alan Connell used its V12 unit in his Birdcage Maserati, chassis 2461
Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 May 2011 - 07:50.
#117
Jerry Entin
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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:53
Sandy and Jim Hall, with on the right Bart Roberts [son of CSSCI sales manager Jim Roberts] and A Hardcastle
Edited by Jerry Entin, 19 May 2011 - 07:55.
#118
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 01:39
Bob Jackson 1964 Pulitzer Prize winning photographer
Bob Jackson covered the racing scene in the Southwest from 1956 on and was a regular visitor at CSSCI on Yale Boulevard, which was only a few blocks from campus.
#119
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 05:48
Bob Schroeder and Bill Janowski, who flew in with his own plane for the occasion.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 05:51.
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#120
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 05:52
Jim Hall and Bob Schroeder enjoying the Reunion
Fifty years after their famous Birdcage Maserati battle in the 1961 Road America June Sprints, Jim Hall and Bob Schroeder seem to ask: where is Roger Penske
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 06:04.
#121
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 06:05
How the hell did we let Penske win that race!
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 06:09.
#122
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 06:10
Charles Ced, Bob Schroeder and Bob Jackson. Barely 18 years old in 1957, Ced was the bartender in the Playboy Club on the second floor of the CSSCI building at Yale Boulevard.
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 06:13.
#123
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 06:15
Delmo Johnson gives Bob Schroeder a ride in his Cadillac after the Reunion
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 06:18.
#124
Jerry Entin
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Posted 20 May 2011 - 14:25
Delmo Johnson showing Willem Oosthoek his airplane collection at Addison Airport.
Photo: Bob Schroeder
Edited by Jerry Entin, 20 May 2011 - 14:29.
#125
Jerry Entin
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Posted 06 June 2011 - 22:52
Frank Lance will now explain about the Elkhart Lake race won by Roger Penske in a Birdcage, over Jim Hall.
"I know that Im a little late but I would like to answer the question in post # 121 about Roger Penske.
I was Jim Hall's mechanic at that race. Early in the race Jim Hall, Bob Schroeder and Roger Penske were running in a close pack in their Birdcages. They all swapped positions several times. Jim and Roger continued to race each other and swapped the lead several times.
Late in the race Jim Hall followed Roger but he was right on his tail. On the last lap they crossed the finish line with Roger in the lead but Jim was right there. After the race Jim was really mad at Roger. He said that he could pull the finish hill better than Roger and that Roger was so desperate to win, that Jim Hall was afraid Roger would take them both out. Jim's plan was to follow him and on the last lap he would be able to pass him up the hill because his car was stronger. When they came out of the last turn he moved to pass but Roger moved over and blocked him. He had to back off and lost the momentum.
Jim still almost beat him. Thats the first time I saw Jim mad at Roger. The second time is another story.
That was one of the best races I have ever seen."
Frank Lance
"I know that Im a little late but I would like to answer the question in post # 121 about Roger Penske.
I was Jim Hall's mechanic at that race. Early in the race Jim Hall, Bob Schroeder and Roger Penske were running in a close pack in their Birdcages. They all swapped positions several times. Jim and Roger continued to race each other and swapped the lead several times.
Late in the race Jim Hall followed Roger but he was right on his tail. On the last lap they crossed the finish line with Roger in the lead but Jim was right there. After the race Jim was really mad at Roger. He said that he could pull the finish hill better than Roger and that Roger was so desperate to win, that Jim Hall was afraid Roger would take them both out. Jim's plan was to follow him and on the last lap he would be able to pass him up the hill because his car was stronger. When they came out of the last turn he moved to pass but Roger moved over and blocked him. He had to back off and lost the momentum.
Jim still almost beat him. Thats the first time I saw Jim mad at Roger. The second time is another story.
That was one of the best races I have ever seen."
Frank Lance
Edited by Jerry Entin, 07 June 2011 - 00:09.
#126
eldougo
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Posted 12 June 2011 - 11:22
That is what RACING is all about it,s up to the person comming second to force the place or lose the race.Go ROGER.
#127
Jerry Entin
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Posted 13 June 2011 - 02:31
Back row: Jim Hall and Frank Lance and Bob Schroeder
Middle row: Willem Oosthoek and Sandy Hall
Front row: Bill Neale and Delmo Johnson
photo: Carolyn Lance
Edited by Jerry Entin, 13 June 2011 - 13:34.
#128
Vettefinderjim
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Posted 17 June 2011 - 05:16
Back row: Jim Hall and Frank Lance and Bob Schroeder
Middle row: Willem Oosthoek and Sandy Hall
Front row: Bill Neale and Delmo Johnson
photo: Carolyn Lance
What a great Reunion. Will they do another next year? I need to get on the mail list as I have questions from all the racers, especially Frank Lance and the Ebb Rose Corvettes he may have worked on.
#129
ChuckyII
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 18:04
Uploaded with ImageShack.us I have enjoyed this thread and thought I might add a few pictures from the 1956 Mansfield La. race. I was in high school at the time.Here is Dale Duncan winner of the big car race. Car is a 375MM Ferrari. I did some checking and it is also S/N 375. Chuck
Edited by ChuckyII, 25 June 2011 - 18:29.
#131
Cynic2
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 19:55
Not 0370?
Yes, this 375 MM was definitely numbered 0370 AM. It's the ex-Masten Gregory car; Dale Duncan was Gregory's brother-in-law.
Edited by Cynic2, 25 June 2011 - 19:55.
#132
Jerry Entin
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 20:12
Roy Cherryhomes crossing the finish line with his 4.4-liter Ferrari 121LM in August 1956.
It was chassis 0558 and the car blew its left front tire on the last lap. Finishing on three tires, still a winner.
Chuck:
Your picture must have been taken in 1955 and the chassis number is 0370. In 1956 the three Mansfield winners were Hal Fenner [D-type, February 25-26], Norm Scott [550RS, May 5-6] and Roy Cherryhomes [121LM, August 4-5].
Here is a photo of Cherryhomes crossing the finish line with his 4.4-liter Ferrari 121LM in August 1956. It was chassis 0558 and the car blew its left front tire on the last lap. Finishing on three tires, still a winner.
all research Willem Oosthoek
photo: Willem Oosthoek collection
Edited by Jerry Entin, 25 June 2011 - 20:15.
#133
ChuckyII
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 21:10
Yep, S/N 370 as shown here http://www.barchetta...370AM.375MM.htm I have made this mistake before. However, this site shows Nov. '56 as the date. From the grass color and what people are wearing its not summer. There were four races in '56, in Feb.,May, Aug., and Nov. I have the write ups in photobucket along with my other pictures. ImageShack is giving me problems at the moment so not sure when I can post. Chuck
#134
David McKinney
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 21:51
I think the point being made in the above post is that Duncan drove 0370 in 1955, but not 1956...
#135
ChuckyII
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Posted 25 June 2011 - 22:26
So the Nov. '56 date shown here is in error? http://www.barchetta...370AM.375MM.htm
#136
Jerry Entin
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 07:17
Roy Cherryhomes surveying the damage to his Borrani wheel.
Normally Carroll Shelby would have driven the car for him, but since he was not available, Roy took it to victory himself.
Chuck:
I don't know if the November 1956 date is in error. I was not aware of a fourth race at Mansfield in 1956, so assumed it had to be 1955. But considering the red paint job on the car and without having done much research on its 1955 history [it was white with blue stripes then] the photo may well have been taken in November 1956. The dress code of the people shown does not look as though it was a summer race, whatever the year.
all research: Willem Oosthoek
photo: Willem Oosthoek collection
Edited by Jerry Entin, 01 July 2011 - 07:22.
#137
David McKinney
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 07:21
Duncan drove the car for A V Dayton in 1955
He may also have driven once or twice it for A D Logan in 1956, though I have no record of it
Either that, or the driver in the picture is not Duncan (which someone should be able to advise us on)
He may also have driven once or twice it for A D Logan in 1956, though I have no record of it
Either that, or the driver in the picture is not Duncan (which someone should be able to advise us on)
#138
Allen Brown
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 12:22
While looking at racing in the South East in the 1960s, I noticed that some of the SCCA Regions that were racing then don't seem to exist any more. One in particular was Sowega (South West Georgia?) which appears to have organised races in the 1950s and was still home region for a number of racers in 1966 but is no longer listed by the SCCA as a Region. There may be some link to a region called Chavaga which existed from the late 1960s through the 1970s but I don't know what became of that one either.
Also around in the mid-1960s were Charleston Region and Central Alabama Region. Charleston Region vanished in the 1970s, about the same time Swamp Fox Region appeared in roughly the same location but the latter folded in 1982, its territory being taken over by South Carolina Region which itself only dates from 1978. I can't see what could have happened to Central Alabama Region but a Wiregrass Region appeared in 1977 in a similar part of the state.
Two other regions to have gone missing since the late 1960s are Savannah Region and Gator Region which merged in 1972 to form Buccaneer Region.
No other Division of the SCCA seems to have quite so many defunct regions.
Can anyone help?
Also around in the mid-1960s were Charleston Region and Central Alabama Region. Charleston Region vanished in the 1970s, about the same time Swamp Fox Region appeared in roughly the same location but the latter folded in 1982, its territory being taken over by South Carolina Region which itself only dates from 1978. I can't see what could have happened to Central Alabama Region but a Wiregrass Region appeared in 1977 in a similar part of the state.
Two other regions to have gone missing since the late 1960s are Savannah Region and Gator Region which merged in 1972 to form Buccaneer Region.
No other Division of the SCCA seems to have quite so many defunct regions.
Can anyone help?
#139
ChuckyII
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:12
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Here are a couple more from that day. Is that N. Scott in the 550?
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#140
ChuckyII
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:22
Uploaded with ImageShack.us And another. Is this Wacky Arnolt in his Arnolt Bristol?
Edited by ChuckyII, 26 June 2011 - 18:59.
#141
Jerry Entin
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 13:49
Allen:
The SCCA structure was/is a bottom-up, membership-driven organization. New regions could be established if more than 15 existing members were willing to set up their own local organization. The existing region was generally perfectly willing to give up territory. This means that if for some reason the local chapter folded [e.g. John Rueter was the driving force behind the Savannah region and he died early], it could be taken over by another one, or be resurrected again in later years under a different name. It all depended on how much interest there was among the local members, who were essentially volunteers. The SCCA preferred regions to have names with geographical reference.
David:
As for the Mansfield photo of the 375MM, chassis 0370, it does look like Dale Duncan: tall, with the familiar red Air Force helmet. I have never seen a photo of A.V. Dayton, but from the one photo I have of A.D. Logan, I would say that is him in the passenger seat.
Chuck:
Your second photo of the 375MM does show Dale Duncan with his wife Betty, who was the sister of Masten Gregory's wife Luella.
The blue Porsche was driven by Norm Scott, the Mercedes-Benz dealer in Houston.
all research: Willem Oosthoek
The SCCA structure was/is a bottom-up, membership-driven organization. New regions could be established if more than 15 existing members were willing to set up their own local organization. The existing region was generally perfectly willing to give up territory. This means that if for some reason the local chapter folded [e.g. John Rueter was the driving force behind the Savannah region and he died early], it could be taken over by another one, or be resurrected again in later years under a different name. It all depended on how much interest there was among the local members, who were essentially volunteers. The SCCA preferred regions to have names with geographical reference.
David:
As for the Mansfield photo of the 375MM, chassis 0370, it does look like Dale Duncan: tall, with the familiar red Air Force helmet. I have never seen a photo of A.V. Dayton, but from the one photo I have of A.D. Logan, I would say that is him in the passenger seat.
Chuck:
Your second photo of the 375MM does show Dale Duncan with his wife Betty, who was the sister of Masten Gregory's wife Luella.
The blue Porsche was driven by Norm Scott, the Mercedes-Benz dealer in Houston.
all research: Willem Oosthoek
#143
ERault
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Posted 29 June 2011 - 19:42
The book is indeed a masterpiece. I can't wait for the next opus.
Regarding Dale Duncan at Mansfield on november 25, 1956, according to Herr Baumer's 300S book, he started the prelim with Logan's 300S but DNFed, preventing him from starting the feature. It is quite possible he switched to the 375 MM for winning the day.
Regarding Dale Duncan at Mansfield on november 25, 1956, according to Herr Baumer's 300S book, he started the prelim with Logan's 300S but DNFed, preventing him from starting the feature. It is quite possible he switched to the 375 MM for winning the day.
#144
Jerry Entin
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Posted 01 July 2011 - 17:21
Delmo Johnson and his Beautiful Jaguar XK-SS
ERault: The following comes from Willem Oosthoek:
"Thanks for the positive feedback, ERault.
As for the next volume, today I am working on Galveston, July 2-3, 1960, and I am making headway. Only 16 more Southern events to finish for 1960.
One of my favorite personalities to appear on the Southern tracks in 1959/1960 will be Delmo Johnson, seen here at work at Mansfield in his Jaguar XK-SS with Chevy power. It is the former Bob Stonedale car, chassis 701. A little known fact is that in 1960 Delmo raced a Ferrari Monza as well. He has a razor sharp memory, a godsend for a historian!"
photo: Willem Oosthoek collection
Edited by Jerry Entin, 01 July 2011 - 17:25.
#145
ChuckyII
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Posted 02 July 2011 - 12:49
The book is indeed a masterpiece. I can't wait for the next opus.
Regarding Dale Duncan at Mansfield on november 25, 1956, according to Herr Baumer's 300S book, he started the prelim with Logan's 300S but DNFed, preventing him from starting the feature. It is quite possible he switched to the 375 MM for winning the day.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Could this be Duncan in the 300S, note red helmet. Picture taken at same Mansfield race. The side exhaust makes it look like the 300S to me. Chuck
#146
Jerry Entin
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Posted 03 July 2011 - 00:37
Dale Duncan in 300S Maserati
Chucky II:
It sure looks like chassis 3068, still owned by A.D. Logan at the end of 1956. Here is a 1957 Stillwater photo of Dale Duncan in the 300S, then owned by A.V. Dayton. Still the same small windshield, side vents and built-in rearview mirror. Enhancements are the headrest and trident mounted in the grill.
Photo: Bob Jackson
Willem Oosthoek Collection
Edited by Jerry Entin, 03 July 2011 - 00:41.
#147
ChuckyII
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Posted 04 July 2011 - 17:36
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Here is a home made race car running that day at Mansfield. Maybe someone knows who this is. Looks like a 6 cyl. and other pictures show it at back of the pack, so may not have been fast. Chuck
#148
Jerry Entin
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Posted 04 July 2011 - 20:17
Chucky II:
#222 is the FoMoCo Special. It used a 340 c.i. Thunderbird engine and was built by Jim Saunders of Houston. He took it to a new lap record at Mansfield in November 1956, so it wasn't exactly a slow car. The project was financed by Warren Layne of Layne Wells and the car's formal owner was Layne's daughter Patsy, a college student in Houston, who also served as a crew member..
all research: Willem Oosthoek
#149
ChuckyII
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Posted 04 July 2011 - 21:46
Thanks. Here is another picture of it. Picture quality not so good.Chucky II:
#222 is the FoMoCo Special. It used a 340 c.i. Thunderbird engine and was built by Jim Saunders of Houston. He took it to a new lap record at Mansfield in November 1956, so it wasn't exactly a slow car. The project was financed by Warren Layne of Layne Wells and the car's formal owner was Layne's daughter Patsy, a college student in Houston, who also served as a crew member..
all research: Willem Oosthoek
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
#150
Vettefinderjim
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Posted 05 August 2011 - 04:44
Thanks. Here is another picture of it. Picture quality not so good.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The Corvette in the photo is a 57 model with very rare silver paint and black insert. I am thinking it was Jack Knab's car, but Jack was from Zenia, Ohio. And if this phot was taken in November 1956, that made it a very early production car. Silver with black was only offered in 1957, and only 65 silver cars were made. Less than 10 had the black cove area.
Edited by Vettefinderjim, 06 September 2011 - 02:52.
