Early days

Is Monneret on a pre war R7 Ajay?

Exhaust pipe looks a little KTT ish

I thought a separate thread for early stuff could be interesting. I had no idea that bikes once roared around Monaco :
http://mcm.asso.mc/M.../GPMonaco48.htm

Right, now that the petrol bomb chuckers and the riot police have moved down the street.... Yes, I intially thought it looked a bit Velo like but after blowing it up (which I now can't seem to repeat) it does resemble an R7.

Hi, In Surtees book of Motor Racing Heroes published by Pirelli there is a super photo of Tazio Nuvolari on an early single cylinder Indian-the one with the cylinder sloping rearwards. By all acounts he was "A bit of a daredevil" and realy got going after joining Bianchi in 1925. I believe it was Nuvolari who brushed a wall in the TT and found a good sized bit of his little finger in his glove when he took it off. He castigated his boss Enzo Ferrari for buying return tickets. He said you must always allow for the possibility of being killed in a race. A hard,focused character by the sound of it!

I think the Monnerets were Velo agents ?

HW

Anyone want to have a go at this pre war www?

What do you think, Russ?

Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, July 25 1937.

From the left:

26 John White ("Crasher") 350 Norton - 1st in the 350

2 Fred Frith 500 Norton - 2nd in the 500

1 Jimmy Guthrie 500 Norton - 1st in the 500.

They are lining up for the Handicap race, peculiar to the Belgian GP, which featured the first two finishers from each class - 175cc, 250cc, 350cc & 500cc.

Now - for an unspecified bonus - who knows the pipesmoker?

And what happened to him in the GP?

I'll give you 24 hours . . . . . . . . .

What do you think, Russ?

Belgian GP, Spa-Francorchamps, July 25 1937.

Now - for an unspecified bonus - who knows the pipesmoker?

And what happened to him in the GP?

I'll give you 24 hours . . . . . . . . .

Wild punt...a young Fergus Anderson ??

You are too good, Renn - Fergus A indeed!


Any idea what he had been riding, and what happened in the race?

You are too good, Renn - Fergus A indeed!


Any idea what he had been riding, and what happened in the race?

Not really Larry. I only know that he rode DKWs amongst others, but not as early as '37 ?

Take this as coming from a genuine anorak, Renn - he was on a KTT Velo belonging to Jack Adams, and it ran a main bearing on lap 12 . . . . . . . .

Oh, didn't I say, anyone except you, Larry. The caption on the pic says it's a pre practice line up ?

Oh dear, Russ - it's confession time.

I have that photo, uncropped, and it shows 7 riders lined up across the road:

From the right: Guthrie, Frith (500s); White & Ted Mellors (1st & 2nd in the 350; Walfried Winkler (DKW - 1st 250); Bernhardt Petruschke (DKW - 1st 175); and Ivan Goor (Benelli - 2nd 250).

Missing is van Geert, who was 2nd 175 on a Rush - maybe he's had enough for the day.

A thought occurs - if it were practice, then it would be a hell of a coincidence to get all the race winners plus three of the runners-up in a line.

Plus - why would Fergus be standing smoking his pipe?

Prosecution rests - no further questions of this witness.

Oh dear, Russ - it's confession time.

I have that photo, uncropped, and it shows 7 riders lined up across the road:

From the right: Guthrie, Frith (500s); White & Ted Mellors (1st & 2nd in the 350; Walfried Winkler (DKW - 1st 250); Bernhardt Petruschke (DKW - 1st 175); and Ivan Goor (Benelli - 2nd 250).

Missing is van Geert, who was 2nd 175 on a Rush - maybe he's had enough for the day.

A thought occurs - if it were practice, then it would be a hell of a coincidence to get all the race winners plus three of the runners-up in a line.

Plus - why would Fergus be standing smoking his pipe?

Prosecution rests - no further questions of this witness.

A post race line up seems reasonable, Larry. For a fleeting moment there thought you were suggesting it was the start ;) Is you pic from a biog piece on Fergus ?

Edited by larryd, 15 August 2011 - 19:50.

No, Russ, it's from an excellent book by the late Helmut Krackowizer called "Motorrad Album" publ.1990 and subtitled (My translation!) "Fascinating photos from six decades of Motorcycle Sport". I just happened to recognise FKA standing behind.

Worth having if you can find it.

Very occasionally he gets his captions in a slight twist, but not often! This one he gets right - "Sieger-Handicap-Lauf" (Winners' Handicap Race")

According to the caption in the 'Motorradalbum' the shot was taken at Floreffe and not in Spa. Do you think it's one of the 'slight twists' Larry ?

I wasn't going to confuse matters further, Renn, by mentioning that, but yes I'd spotted that error!

The Belgian only ran at Floreffe once, in 1936 - the opinion of everybody, including the riders, was that it was too bl**dy dangerous for a Grand Prix, with bumpy, twisty, narrow and tree-lined roads.

So - 1937, back to Spa!

I take it that you have the book, Renn - what do you think of it?

Anyone want to have a go at this pre war www?

Edited by Rennmax, 17 August 2011 - 06:46.

Here's a contribution to Early Days. WWW ???

On the grid for the 1925 Senior TT.

Alec Bennett on his works Norton chatting to Freddie Dixon, whose factory Douglas is seen behind, No 14.

19 is the Montgomery of the (later) Velocette genius Harold Willis.

In the Fair Isle pullover and trilby hat might be Nigel Spring, but I wouldn't put too much money on that one

Brands Hatch when it first became a roadrace track : and is that a young John Surtees on pole on his Triumph Tiger 70 ? If so, it could be his first meeting...

Edited by Russell Burrows, 20 August 2011 - 07:29.

Yeah, no idea mate : Tom Arter ?

Anyone want to have a go at this pre war www?

Edited by Russell Burrows, 20 August 2011 - 17:15.

Edited by Rennmax, 24 August 2011 - 10:58.

Crasher White was one of racing's more unusual characters. A Cambridge graduate who taught in a public school, he somehow wangled time off during term time to take his place with the factory Norton team at the TT and GP's. A DR trainer during the War, he returned to the schoolroom after hostilities had come to an end. I don't think he ever resumed his racing career though. Anyone know this for certain, or what happened to Crasher in the years that followed?

Just answering my own question : http://www.suite101....m-rider-a251700 Norton restricted his rides and didn't pay him!

Crasher never got paid by Norton, but he got to keep prize money and any personal bonuses from oil companies. etc. Racing earned him between £400 and £500 a year at a time when his annual schoolmaster salary was £400, so it was a good earner for him. In his retirement he lived for many years in Steeple Aston, near to my old Oxfordshire home.

That's interesting, Graham, did you by chance ever meet him?

Crasher never got paid by Norton, but he got to keep prize money and any personal bonuses from oil companies. etc. Racing earned him between £400 and £500 a year at a time when his annual schoolmaster salary was £400, so it was a good earner for him. In his retirement he lived for many years in Steeple Aston, near to my old Oxfordshire home.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 25 August 2011 - 18:19.

Right, now that the petrol bomb chuckers and the riot police have moved down the street.... Yes, I intially thought it looked a bit Velo like but after blowing it up (which I now can't seem to repeat) it does resemble an R7.

I guess his transponder has come adrift....

Edited by Hasselhoff, 01 September 2011 - 06:56.

Here are 3 guys talking about some early days...... http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Pits stops are for whimps: can anyone ID this bloke?