When did these become fashinable in Australian Racing for Suspension & Linkages in all types of Road Racing Cars.
I know many Lotus & Cooper cars were updated as time passed & so then into other areas, Sports, Sedans etc.
As these items were available in Australia from American WW2 aircraft how come they took so long to be used in Motor Sport.
Spherical bearings, rod ends & rose joints in Oz racing
Started by
DanTra2858
, Nov 08 2011 04:52
16 replies to this topic
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#2
eldougo
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 07:23
I remember seeing rose joints for sale at Bearing Services in Silverwater in the mid 60,s ,here in Sydney.They were very expensive far to much for this little duck.
I was working at Hornibrooks at the time and we purchased some for a machine we were making for the Opera House.
I was working at Hornibrooks at the time and we purchased some for a machine we were making for the Opera House.
Edited by eldougo, 08 November 2011 - 07:27.
#3
Peter Morley
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 09:49
Connaught used them in the mid-1950s.
#4
Ray Bell
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 11:25
There was never a Brabham built without them...
Lotus used them in increasing numbers from the 20 onwards, I gather.
Lotus used them in increasing numbers from the 20 onwards, I gather.
#5
rbm
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:14
were use in 500's from the 50's.
The Revis used them in the rear pull rod from 1951
The Revis used them in the rear pull rod from 1951
Edited by rbm, 08 November 2011 - 12:16.
#6
bradbury west
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 13:09
Presumably their limited, but probably cheap, availability from breakers plus location of said breakers, coupled with the versatility of rod end joints for other applications in a rural and developing engineering economy meant that those that were available soon found new homes and uses. Of course, new ones would be expensive.As these items were available in Australia from American WW2 aircraft how come they took so long to be used in Motor Sport.
Further comments deleted as OT. RL
Roger Lund
Edited by bradbury west, 09 November 2011 - 08:06.
#7
DanTra2858
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:40
Gentlemen, thanks for your replies but please try to keep comments to Australian Racing, thanks.
#8
Ray Bell
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 07:08
I think you'll find my answer just about covered Australian racing...
When Lotus and Brabham came with Rose joints, local cars very quickly copied them.
When Lotus and Brabham came with Rose joints, local cars very quickly copied them.
#9
rbm
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:06
Same has to said about the 500 brigade, a formula that was popular in Oz.
#10
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:17
I am not certain when they became common but they were seldom used in speedway until the 70s, lots of Clevises on bound up suspension.
It really is the last decade or so when they have became quite inexpensive. In the 90s I paid about $60 ea for 5/8 0r 1/2 and now better ones are half of that.
And cars that did not use them do now so it is very hard to ascertain which cars used them in period
It really is the last decade or so when they have became quite inexpensive. In the 90s I paid about $60 ea for 5/8 0r 1/2 and now better ones are half of that.
And cars that did not use them do now so it is very hard to ascertain which cars used them in period
#11
GMACKIE
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 22:18
Bob Joass looked at my Jolus [the F.Junior he built for Paul Bolton], in the mid '80s. The car was 'full' of Rose joints, and Bob told me that it had none when he built it. There were some Vanguard tie-rod ends - top of front uprights, and inner rear pivots, the rest were Mackay 'Silentruba' bushes, or bronze bushes. That gave me something to do, replacing all those Rose Joints.
#12
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 22:48
Rod ends usually solve so many chassis fatigue problems. Tie rod ends move the pick up point out at least an inch so you have a lever working on the pickup ultimatly causing it to break.Bob Joass looked at my Jolus [the F.Junior he built for Paul Bolton], in the mid '80s. The car was 'full' of Rose joints, and Bob told me that it had none when he built it. There were some Vanguard tie-rod ends - top of front uprights, and inner rear pivots, the rest were Mackay 'Silentruba' bushes, or bronze bushes. That gave me something to do, replacing all those Rose Joints.
My classic Supermod had those issues, as did my old HR Sports Sedan on the tramp bars I built [correctly] but using tie rod ends which broke the mountings causing a weird handling car.
Rubber bushes are generally ok except they move too far only aproximating what you intended. And getting the right grade in the right place is a trial and error too.
#13
GMACKIE
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Posted 09 November 2011 - 23:17
The reason for replacing the rod-ends was to bring the car back to 'original', Lee........not for 'improvement'.
#14
DanTra2858
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:09
I do remember Bill March using Rod Ends on his Lotus Super 7 front suspension also many Mini Cooper S were using Rod ends when running in the ATCC of the time.
There was also a Renault Powered Hill Climb car that had full Rod Ends Suspension thanks to Qantas, those used were rod ends deemed reduntant for Flight Operation.
My first introduction to Rod ends would have been in the mid 1960's.
Greg, good to see that you are returning the car to original, it appears to me that a great many compeditors would rather run there cars as not from the Factory so they will be more compeditive than original, but you pick a year that you wish to run the car as in it's life well done.
There was also a Renault Powered Hill Climb car that had full Rod Ends Suspension thanks to Qantas, those used were rod ends deemed reduntant for Flight Operation.
My first introduction to Rod ends would have been in the mid 1960's.
Greg, good to see that you are returning the car to original, it appears to me that a great many compeditors would rather run there cars as not from the Factory so they will be more compeditive than original, but you pick a year that you wish to run the car as in it's life well done.
#15
Ray Bell
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:28
Bob Joass and Britto both had 'friends' at Qantas...
My Jolus has a radiator that started life as an oil cooler in a Lockheed Constellation. That will give some idea of how far back Qantas was donating lifed parts to the racing car industry in Sydney.
But spherical bearings weren't seen as important until they arrived all over the suspensions of every new Lotus 20, Brabham BT4 and BT6 and all the newer stuff arriving.
Were there such joints used in the Lola sports and Junior?
My Jolus has a radiator that started life as an oil cooler in a Lockheed Constellation. That will give some idea of how far back Qantas was donating lifed parts to the racing car industry in Sydney.
But spherical bearings weren't seen as important until they arrived all over the suspensions of every new Lotus 20, Brabham BT4 and BT6 and all the newer stuff arriving.
Were there such joints used in the Lola sports and Junior?
Edited by Ray Bell, 10 November 2011 - 08:04.
#16
eldougo
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:06
Going back further in time RALT -Vincent built in 1956 had radius joints on all 4 rear trailing arms.Built by Ron And Austin Tauranac here in Sydney.
#17
Lee Nicolle
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Posted 10 November 2011 - 22:17
Ray, shush or you may have a visit from Leprachaun Airways wanting it back for service operations out of Asia!Bob Joass and Britto both had 'friends' at Qantas...
My Jolus has a radiator that started life as an oil cooler in a Lockheed Constellation. That will give some idea of how far back Qantas was donating lifed parts to the racing car industry in Sydney.
But spherical bearings weren't seen as important until they arrived all over the suspensions of every new Lotus 20, Brabham BT4 and BT6 and all the newer stuff arriving.
Were there such joints used in the Lola sports and Junior?
