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Fangio plaque at Albi

Started by speedman13 , Nov 11 2011 18:18

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53 replies to this topic

#1 speedman13

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 18:18

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Commemorative plaque on the old Albi GP circuit.

#2 LittleChris

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 20:49

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Commemorative plaque on the old Albi GP circuit.

5 world championships and he gets a roundabout named after him :stoned:

#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 20:50

No mention of him winning there in the BRM...

That's a shame, from an enthusiast's point of view.

#4 LittleChris

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 21:13

No mention of him winning there in the BRM...

That's a shame, from an enthusiast's point of view.

Ray, I think he only ever won a heat there in the BRM when he took part in 1952 and 1953. Rosier was the overall winner both years IIRC.

#5 D-Type

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 21:23

He won a heat in the BRM but not the Grand Prix itself. If only the tyres had stayed together ...

#6 taylov

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 23:13

The programme from the 1953 race when Fangio won Heat 2.

#7 D-Type

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 23:21

Complete with BRM on the cover!

#8 LittleChris

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 23:33

Copy number 284 of 500 signed by Michael Turner sits on our living room wall :clap:

My favourite print followed by one of Jimmy Clark exiting Clubhouse at Spa during the 1963 Belgian GP

http://www.studio88....fo_BRM3_50.html

#9 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:56

Here's a link to the 1949 Albi race:

http://www.jmfangio.org/gp1949albi.htm

Vince H.

#10 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:37

He won a heat in the BRM but not the Grand Prix itself. If only the tyres had stayed together ...

The opening laps of that heat in 1953 sounded like true Grand Prix racing at its best, with three World Champion drivers in the most powerful cars of the day, going at it hammer and tongs on a real high speed road circuit....and it was the two Ferrari's that cracked first!. Those V16 BRM's were exciting enough on British airfield circuits, at Albi, doing what they were built for, they must have been wonderful.

#11 taylov

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:06

The opening laps of that heat in 1953 sounded like true Grand Prix racing at its best, with three World Champion drivers in the most powerful cars of the day, going at it hammer and tongs on a real high speed road circuit....and it was the two Ferrari's that cracked first!. Those V16 BRM's were exciting enough on British airfield circuits, at Albi, doing what they were built for, they must have been wonderful.

..and on one of the greatest circuits ever -

Tony

#12 Sharman

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 14:32

There were a few Historic Meetings at Albi, anybody know if there is any likelyhood of more?

#13 Paul Parker

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 15:08

..and on one of the greatest circuits ever -

Tony

Ive just watched the Abu Dhabi qualifying on the immaculate, video game circuit with its 20 bends, comprising God knows how many 2nd gear ones and even two 1st gear horrors in its 3.45 miles and then you consider a period road racing circuit.

Of course they were potentially lethal but just imagine what it must have been like to exceed 160/170 mph (190 in the BRM V16s, slightly less for the works Ferraris in '53) on public roads as per Albi. The sheer adrenalin rush and sense of achievement must have been something, no doubt tinged by occasional fear.

In Tony Rudd's book IT WAS FUN Fangio responded to Rudd's suggestions about Ascari having gone 0.2 sec faster at Albi 1953 that 'you are in the middle of the front row; it is probably the best place to be, and there is not enough time to do anything about it anyway...'with 'He gave me a very faint smile and got into his car... Fangio took 3.5 seconds off Ascari's time...'

#14 BRG

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 15:21

I am probably missing something, but Albi looks pretty uninspiring to me. A hairpin, three other corners and three very long straights. Even Tilke can do better than that. Abu Dhabi may be crap (in fact it IS crap) but don't use it to typify all current tracks.

#15 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 15:38

Those fast corners on the 'hypotenuse' would have been pretty hairy, I suspect.

Edited by Tim Murray, 12 November 2011 - 15:45.

#16 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 16:53

I am probably missing something, but Albi looks pretty uninspiring to me. A hairpin, three other corners and three very long straights. Even Tilke can do better than that.

But then those very long, fast, and quite narrow straights were lined with very stout trees, as were the corners, not to mention buildings and kerbs etc. All pretty inspiring to me anyway. But then that was pretty much the norm for Continental circuits when I were a lad.

#17 Allan Lupton

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 17:19

Those fast corners on the 'hypotenuse' would have been pretty hairy, I suspect.

Yes and they seem still to be there, although widened since and they end up in a building-lined narrow street (see Google earth's Streetview at 43°56'50.07" N 2°12'22.59" E). The leg from St Juéry to the rightangle righthander is ruler-straight for a good distance to that corner (see Streetview again).
When the BRM raced there in 1953 Hermann Tilke was still unborn. At least John Hugenholtz who was 40 years older had seen real circuits like this with real cars (and had raced motorcycles) before he became a track designer

#18 MCS

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 17:50

I am probably missing something, but Albi looks pretty uninspiring to me. A hairpin, three other corners and three very long straights. Even Tilke can do better than that. Abu Dhabi may be crap (in fact it IS crap) but don't use it to typify all current tracks.

Not sure I'm even remotely with you here with all due respect. The three previous posts seem to echo my thoughts.

The circuit isn't too dissimilar to Reims of course, relying on RN roads. There were some terrific races there as we all know.

I would love to see any footage of racing at Albi.

Edited by MCS, 12 November 2011 - 17:51.

#19 Tim Murray

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 17:59

During the 1953 Final, it was in one of those sweeping curves heading into the village of St Juery that Ken Wharton had his massive accident when he lost control at around 140 mph and destroyed the BRM. He was extremely lucky to emerge merely shocked and bruised.

#20 D-Type

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 19:07

Is the roundabout at one of the bends on the old circuit?

#21 Paul Parker

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 19:14

I am probably missing something, but Albi looks pretty uninspiring to me. A hairpin, three other corners and three very long straights. Even Tilke can do better than that. Abu Dhabi may be crap (in fact it IS crap) but don't use it to typify all current tracks.

Nowhere have I written that my comments typified all current tracks.

Nor did I describe Abu Dhabi's circuit as crap, these are your words.

As for Albi's roughly triangular shape this hardly does justice to the fact that it was comprised of French public roads of the period, and was pretty fearsome in a fast car. Especially those sweeping curves on the return leg to St. Juery.

#22 speedman13

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 19:20

Is the roundabout at one of the bends on the old circuit?

Yes it is

#23 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 19:53

Hi everybody,

Here is a link where you can find a little part of the story about this circuit:
http://www.kolumbus....snellman/t1.htm

#24 LittleChris

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 20:31

Yes it is

It's the second roundabout on the run from Albi to St Juery, approximately where Poste 5 is shown on the map. Can be seen on google maps streetview function

#25 D-Type

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 21:05

Next question:
Is Fangio the only race winner to be honoured or are there roundabouts named after other drivers?

#26 BRG

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 21:05

Nor did I describe Abu Dhabi's circuit as crap, these are your words.

They certainly were. Yours were more measured - but equally damning, I feel.

#27 Sharman

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 22:05

My major problem is that any motor racing is better than no racing at all, so I can think evil thoughts about Bernie and Tilke and the utterly non sporting behaviour displayed; but I still watch the Television.

#28 bradbury west

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 22:37

But then those very long, fast, and quite narrow, and undulating straights with prominent crowns were lined with very stout trees, as were the corners, not to mention buildings and kerbs etc. All pretty inspiring to me anyway. But then that was pretty much the norm for Continental circuits .........

My italics for additional comments, RL

With a lap of 8.88kms and a lap average of around 114mph and race duration of a minute or 2 short of an hour, plus heats, I imagine it was a pretty gruelling race. In one of his books, My cars My Career?, Moss makes the very point about racing over longer distances in Europe on street circuits being key to his development, at a time when many of our other heroes were exercising themselves in 5 or 8 lap races with half of Northamptonshire or most of West Sussex in which to spin off. On a road circuit, if you went off it would always hurt and thus fine-tuned your skills.
Roger Lund

#29 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 22:52

Next question:
Is Fangio the only race winner to be honoured or are there roundabouts named after other drivers?

Other streets have race drivers names: Raymond Sommer, Jean Behra and Francois Cevert.

#30 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 23:00

Here is the list of the winners of the GP d'Albi (1933 - 1979)

Year......Event & Circuit.................Winner................Car
1933 1er GP Les Planques Pierre VEYRON Bugatti
1934 2ème GP Les Planques Pierre VEYRON Bugatti
1935 3ème GP Les Planques Pierre VEYRON Bugatti
1936 4ème GP Les Planques Prince BIRA E.R.A
1937 5ème GP Les Planques Raymond MAYS E.R.A
1938 6ème GP Les Planques Luigi VILLORESI Maserati
1939 7ème GP Les Planques John Peter WAKEFIELD Maserati
1946 8ème GP Les Planques Tazio NUVOLARI Maserati
1947 9ème GP Les Planques Louis ROSIER Talbot
1948 10ème GP Les Planques Luigi VILLORESI Maserati
1949 11ème GP Les Planques Juan Manuel FANGIO Maserati
1950 12ème GP Les Planques Louis ROSIER Talbot-Lago
1951 13ème GP Les Planques Maurice TRINTIGNANT Simca Gordini
1952 14ème GP Les Planques Louis ROSIER Ferrari
1953 15ème GP Les Planques Louis ROSIER Ferrari
1954 16ème GP Raymond SOMMER Roberto MIERES Monomil
1955 17ème GP Raymond SOMMER André SIMON Maserati
1959 18ème Raymond SOMMER David COLIN Tarashi
1960 19ème GP Raymond SOMMER Trévor TAYLOR Cooper
1962 20ème GP Le Séquestre Peter ARUNDELL Lotus
1963 21ème GP Le Séquestre Peter ARUNDELL Lotus
1964 22ème GP Le Séquestre Jack BRABHAM Brabham
1965 23ème GP Le Séquestre Jim CLARK Lotus
1966 24ème GP Le Séquestre Jack BRABHAM Brabham-Honda
1967 25ème GP Le Séquestre Jacky STEWART Matra-Ford
1968 26ème GP Le Séquestre Henri PESCAROLO Matra-Sport 1600
1969 27ème GP Le Séquestre Graham HILL Lotus Ford 1600
1970 28ème GP Le Séquestre Jean-Pierre JARIER Tecno Ford 1600
1971 29ème GP Le Séquestre Emerson FITTIPALDI Lotus Ford 1600
1972 30ème GP Le Séquestre Jean-Pierre JAUSSAUD Brabham 2000
1973 31ème GP Le Séquestre Vittorio BRAMBILLA March-BMW 2000
1974 32ème GP Le Séquestre Marc SOURD Martini MK 14
1975 33ème GP Le Séquestre René ARNOUX Martini MK 15 RE
1976 34ème GP Le Séquestre Didier PIRONI Martini MK 18 RE
1977 35ème GP Le Séquestre Alain PROST Martini MK 20 RE
1978 36ème GP Le Séquestre Philippe ALLIOT Martini MK 20
1979 37ème GP Le Séquestre Alain PROST Martini Renault

#31 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 03:41

Take a look at...

#32 David McKinney

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:36

Nice one Michael :up:

#33 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 06:41

My italics for additional comments, RL

With a lap of 8.88kms and a lap average of around 114mph and race duration of a minute or 2 short of an hour, plus heats, I imagine it was a pretty gruelling race.
Roger Lund

Not for drivers used to a 3-hour Grand Prix at the Nurburgring, surely?

#34 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:07

Nice one Michael

It took a lot of searching but I fluked it!

I have a fascination for road circuits, another one to add to my wish list of places to visit.

#35 Paul Parker

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:39

They certainly were. Yours were more measured - but equally damning, I feel.

I described it as an 'immaculate video game circuit' which is what it resembles on screen in my opinion, I neither mentioned crap as you put it or suggested it, nor did I mention any other 'current tracks' by name.

For the record lest we forget here is what you said:

Abu Dhabi may be crap (in fact it IS crap) but don't use it to typify all current tracks.

Please stop putting words into my metaphorical mouth.

#36 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 08:48

During the 1953 Final, it was in one of those sweeping curves heading into the village of St Juery that Ken Wharton had his massive accident when he lost control at around 140 mph and destroyed the BRM. He was extremely lucky to emerge merely shocked and bruised.

Saved by the roadside ditch I believe Tim. :up:

#37 Allan Lupton

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:04

I described it as an 'immaculate video game circuit' which is what it resembles on screen in my opinion, I neither mentioned crap as you put it or suggested it, nor did I mention any other 'current tracks' by name.

For the record lest we forget here is what you said:

Abu Dhabi may be crap (in fact it IS crap) but don't use it to typify all current tracks.

Please stop putting words into my metaphorical mouth.

Let's just agree that they don't make 'em like Albi any more, and whether you write Tilkedromes off as "video game" or "crap" circuits matters very little as this is supposed to be the Nostalgia Forum, part of the point of which is our yearning for the pre-Tilke era.

Meanwhile thanks Michael for finding that film and you can of course visit Albi and drive round the circuit and I expect you can recognise at least some of the features in the period photos. I've done that at many of the old French GP circuits, armed with TASO Mathieson's book and it's as good a way of touring France as many!

#38 Tim Murray

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:24

Saved by the roadside ditch I believe Tim.

Yes indeed Eric. As DCN put it in BRM V1 the car 'fortunately dropped Ken neatly into a well-cushioned roadside ditch' before destroying itself against a brick wall. According to Raymond Mays Wharton's shoes were left behind in the car. On that day he was a very lucky man. :stoned:

#39 speedman13

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:36

Another memorial on the circuit which may be of interest to some is for the motorcyclist Dario Ambrosini who was killed there during the 1951 GP.

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#40 Bauble

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 11:03

The Albi Grand Prix of 1953 is certainly one that has always stuck in my mind, being a long term BRM supporter, and it was so good to see them at a 'proper' circuit, and able to show their full potential. Sadly the tyres of the day were not up to the performance of the cars, and having seen off Ascari and Farina in the heats, the final looked like a walk over, but it was not to be - never mind we saw the what the V16 could do (and what might have been.) a race for the BRM fan to treasure.

For a better understanding of the race I recommend the Raymond Mays/ Peter Roberts book, BRM, where the chapter on the race puts it all into perspective, apparently Wharton before the race, asked Fangio what gear he took through the twisty section before St. Juery. Juan said 5th, and Ken said he used 4th, so he tried 5th with disastrous results. Luckily Ken suffered only bruising and shock after a 140 mph crash!!!!!!

The Rivers-Fletcher films from the era have a lot of coverage of the race and is well worth getting a copy.

As regards YasMarina, my grandson now 26 used to have a plastic sheet with a road layout printed on it when he was 5 yrs old and it had pictures of a garage, shop, post office etc. when viewing the TV coverage from Abu Dhabi I realise where the 'German' got his ideas from. I do think it very clever the way they are able to take pictures of real cars and superimpose them on the 'virtual track'. Very clever computer graphics indeed. I only wish I had bought shares in the company that supplied the tarmac, would have made a fortune.

Apparently there was a plan to sell 'The Flintstones' to Abu Dhabi, but it was thought the inhabitants would not understand the humour, but it seems the people of Abu Dhabi Doo.

#41 B Squared

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:31

Apparently there was a plan to sell 'The Flintstones' to Abu Dhabi, but it was thought the inhabitants would not understand the humour, but it seems the people of Abu Dhabi Doo.

Watched qualifying with a friend yesterday, I mentioned to him that Fred Flintstone would make a great spokesman for the event. It seems I'm not alone. Thanks for the laugh.

#42 Bauble

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:43

Watched qualifying with a friend yesterday, I mentioned to him that Fred Flintstone would make a great spokesman for the event. It seems I'm not alone. Thanks for the laugh.

Happy to oblige!

#43 taylov

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:37

The programme cover, entry list and circuit map from the 1936 Albi race. This suggests that the map on the "Golden Era" site is incorrect in showing that the village of St Juery was by-passed. If this happened it was after 1953.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 13 November 2011 - 15:45.

#44 LittleChris

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 20:58

1953 was the last time the traditional circuit was used.After this they used the Circuit Raymond Sommer which was about 3 kms long. The variuos layouts can be found here if you work through the menu

http://theracingline...ance/index.html

Edited by LittleChris, 13 November 2011 - 20:59.

#45 LittleChris

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 21:23

Another memorial on the circuit which may be of interest to some is for the motorcyclist Dario Ambrosini who was killed there during the 1951 GP.

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Pretty much at the point where Wharton had his shunt isn't it - poste 7 on the map ? Left right rather similar to the Masta Kink but downhill !

#46 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 21:44

i think that the traditional circuit was renamed in honour of Raymond Sommer in 1953.

Edited by Roger Clark, 13 November 2011 - 22:18.

#47 Sharman

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:12

i think that the traditional circuit was renamed in honour of raymond summer in 1953.

After he was killed at Cadours

#48 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:24

After he was killed at Cadours

Obviously.

#49 GuyA.FWI

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:42

i think that the traditional circuit was renamed in honour of Raymond Sommer in 1953.

Yes Roger.

But between 1933 and 1951 the circuit change a lot of times:

1933 : Circuit des Planques 9,226 kms
1934 : Circuit des Planques 8,911 kms
1946 : Circuit des Planques 8,901 kms
1954 : Circuit Raymond Sommer 2,991 kms shorter but on the same place.

In 1959 the circuit moved to a new place near Albi "Le Séquestre" where it is still now.

#50 Roger Clark

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 23:04

The Motor report of the 1953 race said that the Circuit des Planques had already been renamed.

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Fangio plaque at Albi

#1 speedman13

#2 LittleChris

#3 Ray Bell

#4 LittleChris

#5 D-Type

#6 taylov

#7 D-Type

#8 LittleChris

#9 raceannouncer2003

#10 Eric Dunsdon

#11 taylov

#12 Sharman

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#17 Allan Lupton

#18 MCS

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#24 LittleChris

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#31 Catalina Park

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