The 'Ascari' Ferrari 500/625 as a Maserati 151 copy

What does a young sports car enthusiast do when he can't afford his dream car, a DB3S Aston Martin? He could buy a monoposto Ferrari and convert it to a two-seater. That's what Perth's Bob Weaver did anyway. In case the mention of this episode ruffles feathers, it should be pointed out that a hundred irate nostalgia buffs chanting " 'ands orf our 'eritage!" could each have coughed up a tenner and bought the above Ferrari. However no such cavalry was forthcoming. Having passed through the hands of Tony Gaze, Lex Davison and Doug Green, the car had reached the end of its racing days in Western Australia.
Underlining the fact that sales were slow in the obsolete racing car market, Green had told Weaver he could pay in two instalments of five hundred pounds, provided the second payment was made within twelve months! He encouraged Bob to at least drive the car once before he commenced his conversion to a coupe but open-wheelers didn't appeal so it never happened, a fact which he now regrets. Despite reports to the contrary the Ferrari was not 'butchered' but great care was taken in removing the superstructure and leaving vestiges of framework as Bob, a fitter and turner by trade, envisaged the car being restored one day. Nevertheless, when he had positioned his hacksaw for the first blow, his offsider blurted out; " I don't know what it is Bob but I've got a funny feeling we shouldn't be doing this!" Peter Lyons agreed to make the aluminium body for four hundred pounds and while his workmanship, like Weaver's, was faultless, the Maserati 151's lines were not duplicated due to the shorter wheelbase of the Ferrari. It fooled some though, including an excited Italian who spotted the car on a trailer and claimed; "I saw thissa car atta Le Mansa!!" A feature of the coupe was the beautifully riveted Ferrari fuel tank which was visible through the rear window. Due to family pressure Bob decided to sell the Ferrari to Jim Harwood who had acquire the original body and was glad of the opportunity to put it back together. Bob kept the coupe body and over the next fifteen years built a new chassis and fitted it with a Chev V8 motor. He has occasionally run the car in this form in 'Round the Houses' events but never drove it when it was Ferrari powered.


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Lex Davison in the Ferrari 625. Pic by David Van Dal.


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The 151 copy here with Chev power. Pic R Waller.

Not exactly a huge response to this story but I'll add a bit more in case anyone is reading it.


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Bottom right hand corner of the above pic shows one of the pedal cars that Bob makes. They are not replicas!
Below is part of a letter, from Lex Davison's secretary ?, when Doug Green was buying the Ferrari. This big quantity of spares remained with the car, Bob Weaver having a tall chest of drawers loaded with the parts in the 60s. It was pretty impressive to the young guys with MGs and Healeys who used to hang around the Weaver garage at the time. During an upgrade, fluted Super Squalo brake drums had been fitted, the spares being the originals. All this, and the car, bought for a thousand quid c1963!


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Not exactly a huge response to this story but I'll add a bit more in case anyone is reading it.

I'm enjoying this, Rod, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Please don't stop.

If I had the money , I would have done something like this. Look a like great !! Thanks for showing !

I too am enjoying this story. Thanks Rod.

Thanks guys. More later.

Doug Green driving the beautiful Ferrari.











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Doug Green driving the beautiful Ferrari.











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Thanks Ken. I hoped you would post a pic as I don't have much of Doug in the car. After he got the hang of it he lapped Caversham faster than Davo had. Admittedly the track had been tidied up a bit over the ensuing years.

Bob Weaver wrote to the factory in '65, chasing a brake part and got this response;


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...which muddies the waters a bit, stating that the car was built in 1954. They may have meant "rebuilt", using the '52 chassis. No doubt this has all been dealt with in the past.
Of that mountain of spares once held by Bob, the only piece that remains in his possession is a 'genuine Ferrari' fuel dipstick. Any collectors out there?

The Coupe is beautiful especially for it's time, thanks for the picures.

I seriously doubt 285bhp from a 3 litre, 4 back then - what Ferrari lie about hp???

245bhp was quoted when the car first appeared in New Zealand in 1955

Love the car and concept, plus the photographs. At the risk of seeming ungracious, are there any pictures of the car with doors etc shut so we see the entirety?
Roger Lund

Love the car and concept, plus the photographs. At the risk of seeming ungracious, are there any pictures of the car with doors etc shut so we see the entirety?
Roger Lund

That's all I have Roger. I'll take some more next time I'm up in Perth.
In 1979 Bob heard that the Perth Motor Show organisers didn't have a focal point to promote the show so he offered the coupe for a thousand dollars [We had decimal currency by then.] They came, looked at the car and were impressed. It was heavily promoted and displayed on a turn-table for the ten day show, flanked by an XJS Jag and a 930 Porsche Turbo.

I do have a shot of the car taken at Caversham Revival in 2007, i will find it and post it.

This is the car at Caversham in 2007. It has a very strange name i think a combination of his daughters names. Maybe Rod can spell
it out for us.








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This is the car at Caversham in 2007. It has a very strange name i think a combination of his daughters names. Maybe Rod can spell
it out for us.








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Thanks Ken. Great snapping---that's my Healey in the background!
Bob has a weakness for esoteric and unpronounceable names; The coupe's is Amajawer Arachnida. [Say that backwards three times!] The first part is an abbreviation of his daughter's name, Amanda Jane Weaver and the second is derived from a Greek word referring to the group which includes spiders. The car's logo is a Redback spider.
Sorry you asked?

This is the car at Caversham in 2007. It has a very strange name i think a combination of his daughters names. Maybe Rod can spell
it out for us.








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Very strange looking car! Not a beauty, for sure!

JoBo

A lovely car . It's wing line is far more "flow through" than Tipo 151 (and birdcage) with pronounced almost separate wings. The flow-through is more elegant which you want for a road car while the original is more aggressive which is right for a race car.

(As is obvious, I'm an engineer and don't understand aesthetics)

A lovely car . It's wing line is far more "flow through" than Tipo 151 (and birdcage) with pronounced almost separate wings. The flow-through is more elegant which you want for a road car while the original is more aggressive which is right for a race car.

(As is obvious, I'm an engineer and don't understand aesthetics)

Definitely not a design masterpiece. As almost all "home made"-cars....

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 02 February 2012 - 16:42.

A lovely car . It's wing line is far more "flow through" than Tipo 151 (and birdcage) with pronounced almost separate wings. The flow-through is more elegant which you want for a road car while the original is more aggressive which is right for a race car.

(As is obvious, I'm an engineer and don't understand aesthetics)

Another engineer he say: whether you understand aesthetics or not that cuboid box on the bonnet top is 'orrible and if you've put that much effort into body-building most of us would find a motor installation that would more nearly fit under the bonnet.
I think Rod told us it's a Chev V8 but you don't have to use downdraught carbs - like this for a start, and if you make the inlet pipes a bit longer they can be flatter.

Would you believe that I was so focussed on the wing line that I failed to notice the chicken coop on the bonnet.

Memo to self: "Don't post in a hurry while at work!

Would you believe that I was so focussed on the wing line that I failed to notice the chicken coop on the bonnet.

Memo to self: "Don't post in a hurry while at work!

Not only that.
The car is too small for the hight. A visual disaster.

JoBo

Guys, let's keep this in perspective. The thread was started as a possibly interesting, albeit minor chapter in the history of a famous GP car, not to suggest that the coupe's style was the pinnacle of automotive design. As mentioned, the monoposto wheelbase was somewhat shorter than the 151's which immediately compromised the lines. It was also mentioned previously that Weaver and Lyons were each very competent in their respective fields of machining and panel-beating. It's an unrealistic expectation that they should have designed a backyard special that would cause Pininfarina to lose sleep, however well made. I'm all for encouraging the art of special building.
Alan, I would think that the cost of four suitable Webers would have ruled out their inclusion.

Edited by Repco22, 13 February 2012 - 03:21.

Well said, Rod

Mind you, there seems to be only one person who's been rude about it

Well said, Rod

Mind you, there seems to be only one person who's been rude about it

I am not rude about that thing! As someone who likes modern art, elegant racing- and GT-cars, furniture, nicely designed old and new houses, Riva-boats, and the butt of "Pippa" I think I know what looks good and whats not...!

And this car doesn`t look good (...OK, in my opinion).

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 03 February 2012 - 18:56.

Mine too. But I'd give the Aussies some leeway for their contemporary budget and parts availability. One thing's for sure, the original old monoposto looks a darned sight happier today - despite dear old Wheatie's most determined efforts to destroy it against a Donington paddock gate pillar.

DCN

Have no fear, Doug, there are plenty of good craftsmen in Good Olde Albion to set it straight if it gets bent...

You touch upon an interesting topic here, Philippe, because our regiment of great craftsmen is diminishing in number with every passing year. A great local radiator specialist company, for example, closed down two or three years ago and some of their former customers now have to use a corresponding specialist in the Czech Republic, or somesuch, to get first-rate copper tube soldering and other old-style processes carried out. Obviously the price there is also attractive, but eastern Europe is now more expert in obsolete technologies than we are. No reason why we should be surprised by that but some of us are concerned that insufficient young blood is now forthcoming to learn the old skills...to sustain our restoration industry.

Until 1981 resurrect a 1908-1914 race mechanic and introduce him to a frontline Formula 1 shop and he'd probably have recognised every process there. Post 1982 and the carbon composite revolution and our old timer would see a bloke walk in with a suit length roll of cloth, a vac bag and a pair of scissors - while another fired up the autoclave oven - and he'd wonder just what the hell was going on?

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 03 February 2012 - 23:49.

You touch upon an interesting topic here, Philippe, because our regiment of great craftsmen is diminishing in number with every passing year. A great local radiator specialist company, for example, closed down two or three years ago and some of their former customers now have to use a corresponding specialist in the Czech Republic, or somesuch, to get first-rate copper tube soldering and other old-style processes carried out. Obviously the price there is also attractive, but eastern Europe is now more expert in obsolete technologies than we are. No reason why we should be surprised by that but some of us are concerned that insufficient young blood is now forthcoming to learn the old skills...to sustain our restoration industry.

Until 1981 resurrect a 1908-1914 race mechanic and introduce him to a frontline Formula 1 shop and he'd probably have recognised every process there. Post 1982 and the carbon composite revolution and our old timer would see a bloke walk in with a suit length roll of cloth, a vac bag and a pair of scissors - while another fired up the autoclave oven - and he'd wonder just what the hell was going on?

DCN

Doug,
sooner or later this problem will hit the restoration industry. Mechanics learn today only replace damaged parts instead of repairing them. I am quite sceptical about the future of the classic cars.

JoBo

Another great shot of Doug Green and the magnificent 625 Ferrari.







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It's almost time to give up trying to make the point that Bob Weaver is not, nor claims to be a designer. But he IS a doer and a committed special builder having almost finished another one which will make an interesting story....
Doug, I couldn't agree more regarding the disappearing skills. Cliff Byfield was mentioned in another thread and deserves a thread of his own. I'm constantly amazed by the depth of his metal-working knowledge. It has accrued over a long life so the getting ain't easy.


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Edited by Repco22, 31 January 2013 - 13:36.

I like the Austin Somerset grille on the special Rod.

I like the Austin Somerset grille on the special Rod.

Very perceptive Ken. I thought if anyone spotted that it would be you!

Rod, how interesting it is to read of the different 'views' of a fine piece of work. At the risk of going 'off topic', may I recall an incident that happened during the restoration of my 1923 Peugeot '175'.

The con-rods were a mess - cracked, welded, etc., so I asked Dave Mawer to make a new set [Dave could, and still can, make ANYTHING]. As usual, the new rods [ Dave made them from EN 25] looked beautiful.

My son and I were admiring these pieces of art, when his girlfriend [now wife] walked in and wanted to know what was so interesting. When I explained to her what they were, she exclaimed "Oh yuck, car parts!"

I like the Austin Somerset grille on the special Rod.

and the Tim Murray lookalike on the right is so accurate........
Roger Lund

It's almost time to give up trying to make the point that Bob Weaver is not, nor claims to be a designer. But he IS a doer and a committed special builder having almost finished another one which will make an interesting story....
Doug, I couldn't agree more regarding the disappearing skills. Cliff Byfield was mentioned in another thread and deserves a thread of his own. I'm constantly amazed by the depth of his metal-working knowledge. It has accrued over a long life so the getting ain't easy.


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http://www.currypotp...A40-Special.htm

A couple more views of the car in question. Not too keen on those bazookas on the back!



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I assume the 'Noise Police' had something to do with those exhaust add-ons.

Rod, how interesting it is to read of the different 'views' of a fine piece of work. At the risk of going 'off topic', may I recall an incident that happened during the restoration of my 1923 Peugeot '175'.

The con-rods were a mess - cracked, welded, etc., so I asked Dave Mawer to make a new set [Dave could, and still can, make ANYTHING]. As usual, the new rods [ Dave made them from EN 25] looked beautiful.

My son and I were admiring these pieces of art, when his girlfriend [now wife] walked in and wanted to know what was so interesting. When I explained to her what they were, she exclaimed "Oh yuck, car parts!"

Greg, that sounds very familiar! "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and all that.
Roger, re Tim Murray; What's that other line? "Any resemblance to any person, either living or dead, is purely co-incidental" or something like that. G'day Tim!
David, that goes for specials with Somerset grilles too. What an interesting link to that stuff in Malaya and Singapore! A friend, Ian Boughton, was stationed up there in the RAAF and owned an SS100 Jag which had been disassembled, wrapped up and buried during the war. He restored it and also the Warrior-Bristol which is now in the US. Ian was a member of the club up there and I have an idea he raced in some Johore GPs. But I digress.
Gordon; there's more to those 'bazookas' than meets the eye. Bob has a sense of humour [and possibly a few more horsepower] -- He has made up cross-over extractors which fire 1-2-3-4 from barrel one then 5-6-7-8 from barrel two. As these pipes cross under the motor he winds up with less ground clearance than an Austin-Healey!

Edited by Repco22, 06 February 2012 - 06:34.

and the Tim Murray lookalike on the right is so accurate........
Roger Lund

Roger, re Tim Murray; What's that other line? "Any resemblance to any person, either living or dead, is purely co-incidental" or something like that. G'day Tim!

Ah yes, reminds me of the good old days when I was young, handsome and well-dressed.

Great stuff as always, Rod.

Ah yes, reminds me of the good old days when I was young, handsome and well-dressed.

Great stuff as always, Rod.

Thanks Tim. I hope you're still rugged up.

I've just brought myself up to date on this interesting thread and feel moved to make a comment on something that Doug touched on earlier.

I taught for 16 years in a secondary school in the U.K. When I started there in 1986 I taught WOODWORK and METALWORK. By the time I walked out in 2002 I was teaching TECHNOLOGY, which basically gave the pupils virtually no practical skills whatsoever. It is now possible to complete GCSE course in 'Resistant Materials' without ever even having held a saw! (Or, at least, it was when I finished.) The trend away from skills teaching was steady and relentless and anyone who does not have children in school nowadays would be disgusted at how little these kids are being shown how to do things.

It's all very well turning out computer geeks and electronics wizards but, as Doug so rightly says, in the future we are going to have a society that simply cannot make ANYTHING.

Sorry - rant over.

Well said, Barry !
It is a problem in all kinds of "professions".
Just go to a car dealership now and have the mechanics confronted with a problem - if it is not visible on their computer it´s non-existent (=non-repairable).
So , not only can´t things be made anymore, I am afraid, that existing things might not longer be usable.

Ralf

I taught for 16 years in a secondary school in the U.K. When I started there in 1986 I taught WOODWORK and METALWORK. By the time I walked out in 2002 I was teaching TECHNOLOGY, which basically gave the pupils virtually no practical skills whatsoever. It is now possible to complete GCSE course in 'Resistant Materials' without ever even having held a saw! (Or, at least, it was when I finished.) The trend away from skills teaching was steady and relentless and anyone who does not have children in school nowadays would be disgusted at how little these kids are being shown how to do things.

Rant alert
Yes, continuing this drift, when observing as an advisor (the CEI set up a Neighbourhood Engineers scheme to offer engineering advice to schools) in the 1990s I was shocked that pupils were asked to design amd make items before being taught the use of the tools involved. They were supposed to learn the use by experience, and of course set themselves impossible tasks because not only did they have no idea what was required to make something but had not been shown what could be achieved with the tools involved. There was even a matter of safety when it came to wood-turning, where I had to step in to prevent a disaster, as fundamentals such as placing the toolrest as close to the workpiece as possible had not been taught. But at that time the idea was "discovery" or as I preferred to think of it "learning without teaching".

I've just brought myself up to date on this interesting thread and feel moved to make a comment on something that Doug touched on earlier.

I taught for 16 years in a secondary school in the U.K. When I started there in 1986 I taught WOODWORK and METALWORK. By the time I walked out in 2002 I was teaching TECHNOLOGY, which basically gave the pupils virtually no practical skills whatsoever. It is now possible to complete GCSE course in 'Resistant Materials' without ever even having held a saw! (Or, at least, it was when I finished.) The trend away from skills teaching was steady and relentless and anyone who does not have children in school nowadays would be disgusted at how little these kids are being shown how to do things.

It's all very well turning out computer geeks and electronics wizards but, as Doug so rightly says, in the future we are going to have a society that simply cannot make ANYTHING.

Sorry - rant over.

Barry, after reading that, I felt sad. Then I reallised how lucky I was to go through 'the system' when it was OK to learn manual skills. Having left school [where woodwork, metalwork and technical drawing were taught] at age 15, I was fortunate to score an apprenticeship as a Panelbeater. What I learned in those five years, and since, has enabled me to do things with bits of metal that even surprises me at times.

A few years ago, a friend was admiring a vintage car that I had just finished restoring. He asked how I managed to get the bonnet so good......he saw it some years beforehand. When I confessed that I made a new one, he replied "You just made a new one, did you?.....I would give anything to be able to do that." Sometimes you take things for granted. I feel the same about Rod's drawings.

I apologise to Repco22 for taking his interesting thread off at an educational tangent.

Sorry Rod.

Mine too. But I'd give the Aussies some leeway for their contemporary budget and parts availability. One thing's for sure, the original old monoposto looks a darned sight happier today - despite dear old Wheatie's most determined efforts to destroy it against a Donington paddock gate pillar.

is this the incident to which you refer, Doug? Rick Hall's recollection as posted at Cholmondeley in 2010

I apologise to Repco22 for taking his interesting thread off at an educational tangent.

Sorry Rod.

Not at all Barry. I think it's quite pertinent as the thread is about a 'special' builder and they're a dying breed. But the consequences of a lack of metalwork training will be much more dire than that.

is this the incident to which you refer, Doug? Rick Hall's recollection as posted at Cholmondeley in 2010

I had a chuckle when I read that at the time.

It was obviously repaired

is this the incident to which you refer, Doug? Rick Hall's recollection as posted at Cholmondeley in 2010

That's the one Alan. Wheatie actually torpedoed one of the paddock gate posts. The head-on impact flattened the car's nose and radiator back to the front of the engine, I believe, and folded one suspension - or maybe both? - back at around 30-degrees to where it, and the primary chassis member upon which it picked-up should have been. In short he did a proper job. Tom was thrown forward and I think knocked out briefly, certainly doing a few ribs and his sternum no good, while his thighs and shins were also knocked about 'down below'...

"Ooh Doog", he told me later, "It were goin' so bootiful, then it all went black an' when I woke up all I could see were like rainbows, all the colours you could possible imagine. I really thought I'd 'ad me chips, lad, I tell you that for noothin'...".

As the Japanese Honda mechanic once told a friend of mine, who had been concerned about the machine's starting procedure: "starting good - dliving clap".

God bless you Wheatie.

DCN