Honda 125 Championship

Lets hear about one of the real good 125cc championships.

Cant tell you much other than I was at the 2nd race @ Brands Hatch King of Brands meeting in 1977 & it was wet! Lots of fallers (9) more prize money to the Winner £200 going to Richard Stevens, than the Shellsport 500 Winner!! 2nd was Martin Lawrence, 3rd David Williams, 4th Mick Chatterton, 5th Mick Grice, 6th Tony Smith, 7th Ron Rowlands, 8th Phil Daniels, 9th Bruce Gavin, 10th Frank Raw.
Here is Peter Weale who crashed in the race & got carted of in an ambulance, seem to recall he went down with someone else?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Here is Charlie Williams on his MT125 later in the year.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Cant tell you much other than I was at the 2nd race @ Brands Hatch King of Brands meeting in 1977 & it was wet! Lots of fallers (9) more prize money to the Winner £200 going to Richard Stevens, than the Shellsport 500 Winner!! 2nd was Martin Lawrence, 3rd David Williams, 4th Mick Chatterton, 5th Mick Grice, 6th Tony Smith, 7th Ron Rowlands, 8th Phil Daniels, 9th Bruce Gavin, 10th Frank Raw.
Here is Peter Weale who crashed in the race & got carted of in an ambulance, seem to recall he went down with someone else?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Here is Charlie Williams on his MT125 later in the year.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Nice one Graham,it was a brilliant series,and some top riders came from it.

Edited by mba21, 09 February 2012 - 09:35.

Nice one Graham,it was a brilliant series,and some top riders came from it.

This is what it was all about, brilliant series, great racing.

Martin (Bill?) Lawrence in practice crashed @ bottom bend/Graham Hill bend, note straw in visor!
Must of got bike back together as he finished 2nd in race.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

This is what it was all about, brilliant series, great racing.

There speaks a Champion!!

There speaks a Champion!!

Thanks Graham . It really was a fantastic series. Get the gearing right, get the jetting right, stick on a pair of
new tyres and go and race the wheels of it. None of this constant mucking about with settings and endless
tyre choices, just get out there and have some fun.

What fantastic little machines those MT125s were. As Yendor says all you had to do was sort jetting and gearing. Quite often it was a matter of turning up, pour fuel in and go racing!

Pre 1979 in Northern Ireland as in Scotland we had the 200cc class (based on modded Suzuki and Yamaha road bikes). It was the MT125 which brought about the eventual end of this class having it replaced with a 125 class with "proper" race bikes. I started out on an MT125 when still at college and was able to fund my racing budget from the proceeds of a part time hotel bar job - not much chance of that nowadays! Even the tyre budget consisted of two rears and one front Dunlop TT100's to last a full season.

Here is Peter Weale who crashed in the race & got carted of in an ambulance, seem to recall he went down with someone else?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Ah yes! Jeff Webber, if Peter looks in he might remember?, then again probably not as I think he had a bump on the old noggin!!?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Martin Lawrence 2nd place finisher 1977.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

John Harding hits the deck @ Clearways with #95 Doug Randall, Dave Williams hidden behind, #77 Mick Grice & #107 Martin Lawrence taking avoiding action!

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Not from the Honda MT125 Championship, but Leigh Notman here @ Silverstone during British 125GP in 1977.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Martin (Bill?) Lawrence in practice crashed @ bottom bend/Graham Hill bend, note straw in visor!
Must of got bike back together as he finished 2nd in race.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

great little rider was Martin, Bill was a nickname he prefered, i'm still in touch with him, he lives in Perth, Oz now.

I believe a few old Bantam racers had a go at this championship, besides Bill i think the Hunter Brothers, Dick and Dave were in there too.

There speaks a Champion!!

This series just goes to show how a non entity like me and a few others with relatively little experiance could compete with great named riders on the cheap but on a level playing field. Pity that racing in the UK lost the golden opportunity to nurture and surrended it to the Italians...You only have to look back in history to see Frank Sheene's guidence and vision was he ahead of the game...I think so
I'm currently working on building a web page devoted to the Honda series and what it did to bring on a renaissance to an often neglectad class in the UK

Edited by joeninety, 09 February 2012 - 21:37.

This series just goes to show how a non entity like me and a few others with relatively little experiance could compete with great named riders on the cheap but on a level playing field. Pity that racing in the UK lost the golden opportunity to nurture and surrended it to the Italians...You only have to look back in history to see Frank Sheene's guidence and vision was he ahead of the game...I think so
I'm currently working on building a web page devoted to the Honda series and what it did to bring on a renaissance to an often neglectad class in the UK

Get a shift on then,can't wait to read it,will your mate Clive hold centre stage in it ?
Some great foto's there Graham,good to hear from Rod on the forum too.

Edited by mba21, 09 February 2012 - 21:53.

Get a shift on then,can't wait to read it,will your mate Clive hold centre stage in it ?

**** off Lets see your form come on there are loads of pretenders out there

Edited by joeninety, 09 February 2012 - 21:56.

**** off Lets see your form come on there are loads of pretenders out there

Chris I don't pretend or never have done,I enjoyed my racing times as much as you did,and still love the sport,and will try to at least parade,if its all i can do I will be happy.

Chris I don't pretend or never have done,I enjoyed my racing times as much as you did,and still love the sport,and will try to at least parade,if its all i can do I will be happy.

It's unfair to air our dirty washing on yet another web page, so let's go over to the original site that you got the hump on with me, still waiting with baited breath on your form..

Edited by joeninety, 09 February 2012 - 22:20.

It's unfair to air our dirty washing on yet another web page, so let's go over to the original site that you got the hump on with me, still waiting with baited breath on your form..

You seem to want to do it Chris,you even indicated by messages that it would be a great place to have some fun,well don't bother.
enjoy your piss taking elsewhere.

Ah yes! Jeff Webber, if Peter looks in he might remember?, then again probably not as I think he had a bump on the old noggin!!?

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Graham, yes I do remember. Noggin was OK, but I suffered a big impact in my lower back which damaged my right kidney and vertibrae, which took a three week stay in the Sidcup hospital and several more months to sort itself out.

The Hondas were great little bikes, reliable and fast for what they were. They were supplied to individual dealers who appointed a rider and supported the machine. Mine was from the Bury St Edmunds dealership of motocross ace John Banks. We acquired ours early, right at the start of the '77 season so I was able to ride it in some non-championship races before the series started. Right out of the crate it was quick without being peaky, handled and stopped well and was easy to ride but was physically very small.

After the Brands spill I was unable to ride it comfortably as the distance between seat and pegs was too small for me to bend my back properly, even with the extra foam on the seat as in your excellent pic. The machine then went to Dennis Parry who did well on it but he felt he was too tall then passing to the very eminent Mr. Yendor who as expected was very successful on it.

Peter.

Hi Peter, thanks for that, I hope my comment didn't appear flippant it was not meant to be.

Hi Peter, thanks for that, I hope my comment didn't appear flippant it was not meant to be.

No Graham, certainly no offence taken, that's fine. After all it was a long time ago wasn't it!

Mostly they were great times and we are very lucky that you were there with your camera to record it.


Best wishes, Peter.

The Honda Championship was a breath of fresh air and a vital ingredient in breathing new life into an often neglected class. Many circuits now included a 125 class in the programme, but alas, It's succsess was it's downfall.
Early Honda series were dominated for the most part with well known riders, perhaps someone called Hunter was an exeption to the rule but proved a point. The "relatively" easy rich pickings to bolster a paultry prize fund in other classes was most likely a temptation to ride a 125 Honda. The good side was all the hand me down Honda's were to become available at affordable prices to young whipper snappers who could now afford to race a bike and maintain it relatively cheaply. What came next in 1980 was the whipper snappers came good, no longer were the top name's picking up the booty but the lads who had ridden hand me downs from a year or two before had come of age. In the end Honda UK said it had become a class of domain of the 125 specialist, what a waste.

The Honda Championship was a breath of fresh air and a vital ingredient in breathing new life into an often neglected class. Many circuits now included a 125 class in the programme, but alas, It's succsess was it's downfall.
Early Honda series were dominated for the most part with well known riders, perhaps someone called Hunter was an exeption to the rule but proved a point. The "relatively" easy rich pickings to bolster a paultry prize fund in other classes was most likely a temptation to ride a 125 Honda. The good side was all the hand me down Honda's were to become available at affordable prices to young whipper snappers who could now afford to race a bike and maintain it relatively cheaply. What came next in 1980 was the whipper snappers came good, no longer were the top name's picking up the booty but the lads who had ridden hand me downs from a year or two before had come of age. In the end Honda UK said it had become a class of domain of the 125 specialist, what a waste.

There was nothing easy in picking up prize money in the Honda 125 series, the competition was frenetic and almost always extremely close racing. For my part I had been out of racing for three years when I came to the series and took part in it as publicity for the Honda dealer I was then working for. The series was arranged, as far as I can remember, so that only Honda dealers could buy and enter a machine and then only when Honda UK approved the rider hence, I would assume, the high standard of rider and competition, which is what they (Honda) wanted. The policy obviously paid off as, I think we would all agree, it was one of the most successful series of that time.

There was nothing easy in picking up prize money in the Honda 125 series, the competition was frenetic and almost always extremely close racing. For my part I had been out of racing for three years when I came to the series and took part in it as publicity for the Honda dealer I was then working for. The series was arranged, as far as I can remember, so that only Honda dealers could buy and enter a machine and then only when Honda UK approved the rider hence, I would assume, the high standard of rider and competition, which is what they (Honda) wanted. The policy obviously paid off as, I think we would all agree, it was one of the most successful series of that time.

I suppose I should have said the Honda Chapionship offered a supplimentary income to subsidize the cost of running say a 250. But the seies changed in 1980 you must agree that the previous challegers were now being challenged by unknown names. Take the 1980 series for example the first round at Mallory, who would have predicted the outcome and it carried on throughout the year with riders who had dominated the previous year or two's proceedings knocked down a peg or two. The one thing I didn't like was the accusations of cheating, you were once dragged over the coals Rod and proved a point, Mezz Mellor was a victim but I can say with hand on heart nobody had a faster bike than anyone else only within the spirit of the series a faster rider made it fast.

I suppose I should have said the Honda Chapionship offered a supplimentary income to subsidize the cost of running say a 250. But the seies changed in 1980 you must agree that the previous challegers were now being challenged by unknown names. Take the 1980 series for example the first round at Mallory, who would have predicted the outcome and it carried on throughout the year with riders who had dominated the previous year or two's proceedings knocked down a peg or two. The one thing I didn't like was the accusations of cheating, you were once dragged over the coals Rod and proved a point, Mezz Mellor was a victim but I can say with hand on heart nobody had a faster bike than anyone else only within the spirit of the series a faster rider made it fast.

I'm not sure, the old brain is getting more and more unreliable , but wasn't it 1980 when some of the restrictions on modifying the bikes were lifted? For instance I was able to design and make my own fairing and seat. Also, like my brain, the bike became a little less reliable with main bearings failing sometimes in as little as 30 miles, and frames cracking up: I think that started in '79 actually, I seem to remember around 40% of the bikes at the Oulton Park round that year were discovered to have cracked frames when the scrutineers called all the bikes in after my frame broke in practice. I remember Barry Symonds getting a bit hot under the collar when he was besieged by irate riders demanding something be done. I was of the opinion at the time that they were recycling coke tins into 125 frames

I'm not sure, the old brain is getting more and more unreliable , but wasn't it 1980 when some of the restrictions on modifying the bikes were lifted? For instance I was able to design and make my own fairing and seat. Also, like my brain, the bike became a little less reliable with main bearings failing sometimes in as little as 30 miles, and frames cracking up: I think that started in '79 actually, I seem to remember around 40% of the bikes at the Oulton Park round that year were discovered to have cracked frames when the scrutineers called all the bikes in after my frame broke in practice. I remember Barry Symonds getting a bit hot under the collar when he was besieged by irate riders demanding something be done. I was of the opinion at the time that they were recycling coke tins into 125 frames

Rod it was 1981 when mods (no pun intended) were allowed, the RSW was never as good as the MT watercooled model. They did in 1980 let us fit a steering damper after the first round at Mallory as the handling was quite poor but that was all they allowed. I never had problems with the engine but the frames as you say cracked but they always did my old aircooled MT cracked all over the place. The Yamaha 125 single was better bike in my opinion.
I'm currently working on a web page dedicated to the Honda 125 and would appreciate any photos "without water marked copyright intrusions" or interesting anecdotes relating to this wonderful series for inclusion

Edited by joeninety, 12 February 2012 - 20:37.

Rod it was 1981 when mods (no pun intended) were allowed, the RSW was never as good as the MT watercooled model. They did in 1980 let us fit a steering damper after the first round at Mallory as the handling was quite poor but that was all they allowed. I never had problems with the engine but the frames as you say cracked but they always did my old aircooled MT cracked all over the place. The Yamaha 125 single was better bike in my opinion.
I'm currently working on a web page dedicated to the Honda 125 and would appreciate any photos "without water marked copyright intrusions" or interesting anecdotes relating to this wonderful series for inclusion

Ah it was '81 was it, I was far from sure as I packed up racing half way through '81 and I couldn't quite convince myself that I would have spent the whole winter of '80 designing and producing a new fairing and seat only to use it for half a season, still I did sell a few replicas .

I think the availability of slicks finally showed up the weaknesses of the frames

Derek Huxley & Robert Maltby 1977.

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge.

Ah it was '81 was it, I was far from sure as I packed up racing half way through '81 and I couldn't quite convince myself that I would have spent the whole winter of '80 designing and producing a new fairing and seat only to use it for half a season, still I did sell a few replicas .

I think the availability of slicks finally showed up the weaknesses of the frames

I had one of your fairings and seat ! I remember coming down to your place and you showing me how they were manufactured a technique you learned from a sidecare ace you were once mechanic for ?
I tried a slick rear on a wider rim but it didn't work it gripped OK but feathing the throttle ( we all did it ) made it judder terribly, probably a frame weakness.

By joeninety at 2012-02-13
The bottom of the Mountain through to the hairpin at Cadwell, probably one the most enjoyable bits of tarmac on earth !

Edited by joeninety, 13 February 2012 - 13:39.

I had one of your fairings and seat ! I remember coming down to your place and you showing me how they were manufactured a technique you learned from a sidecare ace you were once mechanic for ?
I tried a slick rear on a wider rim but it didn't work it gripped OK but feathing the throttle ( we all did it ) made it judder terribly, probably a frame weakness.

By joeninety at 2012-02-13
The bottom of the Mountain through to the hairpin at Cadwell, probably one the most enjoyable bits of tarmac on earth !

Never could get on with Cadwell, never got a decent result there on anything Didn't bother to change the rims, just stuck some slicks on

Regarding the glassfibre, I got my grounding in it whilst working for Rudi and Dane Kurth in Switzerland. Then gradually refined my own technique
to combine lightness and strength whilst keeping the cost down.

Never could get on with Cadwell, never got a decent result there on anything Didn't bother to change the rims, just stuck some slicks on

Regarding the glassfibre, I got my grounding in it whilst working for Rudi and Dane Kurth in Switzerland. Then gradually refined my own technique
to combine lightness and strength whilst keeping the cost down.

I can't believe you never got on with Cadwell ? The rim was a shot in the dark experiment ( rear wheel only ) If I remember correctly I had a rear wheel that was badly damaged rim wise and Dad knew a wheel builder ( not an easy task, wheel building ) so it worked out quite economical. What spoilt the Honda series was the profound allegations of cheating ( Rod you were not immune) probably instigated by the bad loser brigade and racing has a few too many of those. Mezz Mellor was a great person but to allege he was using dope at Donnington was a joke. I remember the race and his bike was equal in speed to mine we swopped places many times but not down the straights, if anyone cheated then I hold my hand up, Dad stiffened the front forks by adding a Triumph clutch plate spring on top each of the fork springs and brazing up the damper rods to slow down the speed the oil could pass through.
The next trick and well within the rules was to get the antiquated cast iron cylinder liner bored out so tight the piston was as tight as a gnats chuff ( carried out by Peter Middleton ) after a carefull running in period the piston and barrel were akin to a Yamaha a chrome finish. The bike was transfomed and had so much extra usable torque and on a narrow power band every little helps.


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Edited by joeninety, 13 February 2012 - 22:02.

I think i witnessed the maiden voyage of the original MT125 racer, In the summer of 76 I was working for a Honda dealer and had Thursday afternoons off, so I used to trundle over to Cadwell on my moped to watch the practice sessions.

One day Neil Tuxworth turned up and unloaded this neat looking aircooled 125 single, when I asked about it he explained it was a prototype for a new race series and was based around the motocross engine, shortly afterwards Eric Sulley arrived from Honda and then Neil took the bike out, he came in after a few laps and I hovered in the background listening as Neil declared it better than the Maico single which he used to race.

Over the next few weeks Neil was there every Thursday putting serious laps on the bike under the watchful eye of Eric Sulley who was quite happy to stand and discuss the project with me while watching the bike putting the laps in.

As a 16 year old desperate to get into racing, I went back to my boss at the Honda dealer's every Friday morning and tried to convince him to buy one but I never succeeded

Edited by Paul Collins, 14 February 2012 - 00:03.

I can't believe you never got on with Cadwell ? The rim was a shot in the dark experiment ( rear wheel only ) If I remember correctly I had a rear wheel that was badly damaged rim wise and Dad knew a wheel builder ( not an easy task, wheel building ) so it worked out quite economical. What spoilt the Honda series was the profound allegations of cheating ( Rod you were not immune) probably instigated by the bad loser brigade and racing has a few too many of those. Mezz Mellor was a great person but to allege he was using dope at Donnington was a joke. I remember the race and his bike was equal in speed to mine we swopped places many times but not down the straights, if anyone cheated then I hold my hand up, Dad stiffened the front forks by adding a Triumph clutch plate spring on top each of the fork springs and brazing up the damper rods to slow down the speed the oil could pass through.
The next trick and well within the rules was to get the antiquated cast iron cylinder liner bored out so tight the piston was as tight as a gnats chuff ( carried out by Peter Middleton ) after a carefull running in period the piston and barrel were akin to a Yamaha a chrome finish. The bike was transfomed and had so much extra usable torque and on a narrow power band every little helps.


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Yes, I always ran the allowed oversize piston in order to get the clearance right, can't remember now what that clearance was but it was extremely small
Another thing I used to do was to get a stack of new piston rings and pick out the largest one as they were all different "springiness", that way you got the greatest pressure between ring and bore. The cranks used to move about a fair bit i.e. alignment. I resorted to taking the crank out between practice and the race and realigning it, used to run noticeably smoother which I think must have saved a bit of power, however small.

Yes, I always ran the allowed oversize piston in order to get the clearance right, can't remember now what that clearance was but it was extremely small
Another thing I used to do was to get a stack of new piston rings and pick out the largest one as they were all different "springiness", that way you got the greatest pressure between ring and bore. The cranks used to move about a fair bit i.e. alignment. I resorted to taking the crank out between practice and the race and realigning it, used to run noticeably smoother which I think must have saved a bit of power, however small.

Thanks Rod, another problem I had on the RS was the rear disc brake was too keen so I let air into the system it was only there to stabalise things and worked fine for me. I also used ATF in the gearbox, I had a gear ratio chart so I could fine tune gearing I suppose this was commonplace I don't know.
The TT 100 tyres in my mind had too much tread depth so I scrubbed off the right hand side rear and then turned it round then after I wore it down a bit more it ended up on the front and improved stability. I always used hot water first thing so I wasn't spending an age getting it warmed up.

Thanks Rod, another problem I had on the RS was the rear disc brake was too keen so I let air into the system it was only there to stabalise things and worked fine for me. I also used ATF in the gearbox, I had a gear ratio chart so I could fine tune gearing I suppose this was commonplace I don't know.
The TT 100 tyres in my mind had too much tread depth so I scrubbed off the right hand side rear and then turned it round then after I wore it down a bit more it ended up on the front and improved stability. I always used hot water first thing so I wasn't spending an age getting it warmed up.

What was really good about the TT100's as opposed to the slicks was that they worked so well on the grass

What was really good about the TT100's as opposed to the slicks was that they worked so well on the grass

nice one Rod, that is one of the best comments i've heard for a while and so true(personal expieriance)

nice one Rod, that is one of the best comments i've heard for a while and so true(personal expieriance)

Found that in early days with my TZ350 and Michelin PZ2s -- well, when you're skint, you'll put anything between the rims and the road -- or the grass . . . . . . . . . .

(I found the first incarnation of the TT 100 with the block tread pattern especially grippy on wet grass)

By joeninety at 2012-02-17
I believe this is the very first Honda round at Oulton Park 1977.

(I found the first incarnation of the TT 100 with the block tread pattern especially grippy on wet grass)

By joeninety at 2012-02-17
I believe this is the very first Honda round at Oulton Park 1977.

Mick Chatterton #1
Charlie Williams #33
John Harding #8
Eddie Roberts #20?
Clive Horton #6.
Great old photo/cutting!

Mick Chatterton #1
Charlie Williams #33
John Harding #8
Eddie Roberts #20?
Clive Horton #6.
Great old photo/cutting!

Got it today off mister MT Jerry Lodge, who's the guy in the jet helmet I think he features elswhere on his backside. My Honda webpage is coming along nicely so any offerings will be much appreciated

Pity the Honda Championship never progressed to this twin.

By joeninety at 2012-02-18

Jamie Whitham one of the many young hopefuls to indirectly benefit from the Honda series with the increasing popularity of 125 racing at club level and relatively cheap reliable bikes.


By joeninety at 2012-02-18

Clive Horton


By joeninety at 2012-02-18

Mick Chatterton #1
Charlie Williams #33
John Harding #8
Eddie Roberts #20?
Clive Horton #6.
Great old photo/cutting!

Bob Heath #25?