Chunky should take some of the blame for Bernie running f1
Some of the credit you must mean?
Posted 26 April 2012 - 19:44
Chunky should take some of the blame for Bernie running f1
Posted 26 April 2012 - 20:06
Martin Whitmarsh
Posted 26 April 2012 - 20:31
Posted 26 April 2012 - 20:52
I can't believe people would think Dennis is a good manager of drivers. Lauda, Prost, Montoya, Alonso, just off the top of my head, couldn't wait to get away from him. He is apparently not only unable to work with more than one driver at a time, he has to turn against the unfavored one.
Posted 26 April 2012 - 20:59
Martin Whitmarsh
Posted 26 April 2012 - 22:39
Posted 26 April 2012 - 23:04
Can't help but notice the absence of Eddie Jordan from this thread...
Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:33
Has anyone mentioned Alfred Neubauer as a candidate yet?
Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:40
Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:24
Edited by slideways, 27 April 2012 - 07:25.
Posted 27 April 2012 - 13:16
Posted 27 April 2012 - 13:59
Posted 27 April 2012 - 14:11
Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:05
Edited by four1, 27 April 2012 - 18:08.
Posted 27 April 2012 - 18:52
Posted 27 April 2012 - 19:04
Posted 27 April 2012 - 19:21
I have to wonder how two convicted cheaters can even have their names on a list of "Greatest Team Principals".
Posted 27 April 2012 - 19:28
Ever heard of evil genius?I have to wonder how two convicted cheaters can even have their names on a list of "Greatest Team Principals".
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Posted 27 April 2012 - 20:11
You need to look in the history of F1 past 2007, espionage, rule breaking, cheating whatever you want to call it has been rife down the pit lane for the entire history of the sport. I don't think any of the historic teams or their principles have a leg to stand on in terms of innocence.
Posted 27 April 2012 - 20:12
Ever heard of evil genius?
Posted 27 April 2012 - 21:59
Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:16
But it can be equalled - like Ross Brawn did.Walter Wolf.
He only ever had four drivers - Scheckter, Rosberg, Hunt, Rahal. 3 of 4 were/became World Champions, while the fourth became CART legend.
Plus the fact that his team won in its first outing - can't get any better than this.;)
Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:24
But that's exactly where Ron failed ;)"It depends on what you think the most important attributes of the team principle are."
Exactly! To me the greatest team principle is the one who does the best job at putting a strong team together, consistently and over a long time
Restricting myself to the period 1906 to 2012, my top three would be:
Ron Dennis, Ron Dennis and Ron Dennis.
Edited by scheivlak, 27 April 2012 - 22:25.
Posted 27 April 2012 - 22:43
No argument there but I was trying to put the emphasis on "convicted". Two of the names on the list meet the criteria.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:02
But that's exactly where Ron failed ;)
He couldn't manage Prost/Senna (and lost Honda, didn't get the best Ford and lost a year with Peugeot), he couldn't manage Hamilton/Montoya, he couldn't manage Alonso/Hamilton.
According that criterium Jean Todt is clearly superior.
Edited by Boing 2, 28 April 2012 - 11:03.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:50
Edited by Cramadzy, 28 April 2012 - 11:56.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:53
Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:06
Todt had a ton of money, Bridgestone and the FIA in his pocket. He engineered some huge PR fails for his brand like Austria 2002 and Indy, making Ferrari famous for unsporting conduct. Plus he was just an employee, a one trick pony with Schumi, and was eventually sacked. He is not in the same league as Dennis at all.But that's exactly where Ron failed ;)
He couldn't manage Prost/Senna (and lost Honda, didn't get the best Ford and lost a year with Peugeot), he couldn't manage Hamilton/Montoya, he couldn't manage Alonso/Hamilton.
According that criterium Jean Todt is clearly superior.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:11
But that's exactly where Ron failed ;)
He couldn't manage Prost/Senna (and lost Honda, didn't get the best Ford and lost a year with Peugeot), he couldn't manage Hamilton/Montoya, he couldn't manage Alonso/Hamilton.
According that criterium Jean Todt is clearly superior.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:19
much more likely because your favouitre driver was shown to not be so good when up against a real driver without favourtismProbably because he didn't mess up as much when choosing drivers. You have a fair point though.
Posted 28 April 2012 - 12:24
Posted 28 April 2012 - 21:43
Posted 29 April 2012 - 20:03
Posted 29 April 2012 - 20:13
Posted 29 April 2012 - 21:22
But that's exactly where Ron failed ;)
He couldn't manage Prost/Senna (and lost Honda, didn't get the best Ford and lost a year with Peugeot), he couldn't manage Hamilton/Montoya, he couldn't manage Alonso/Hamilton.
According that criterium Jean Todt is clearly superior.
Posted 29 April 2012 - 21:46
Posted 29 April 2012 - 23:48
Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:48
Seriously, can anybody see past Colin Chapman? I think him alongside Enzo, are Towering figures.
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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:39
Colin ChapmanSo all the talk of whether Marshwhit makes a good or bad TP, and should stay or go got me thinking... what makes a good TP? and who are/were the best at it?
10 names that come immediately to mind, in no particular order, as amongst the best:
Colin Chapman
Ross Brawn
Ron Dennis
Jean Todt
Frank Williams
Flavio Briatore
Enzo Ferrari
John Cooper
Jack Brabham
Ken Tyrell
Christian Horner
(...)
So what are yours?
Posted 02 May 2012 - 14:17
Posted 02 May 2012 - 17:19
Well, if your word is not good, then what is?Both were flawed Chapman's flaw was he had too many other interests, oldman Ferrari was a dictator who made a habit of not keeping his word. Both would have been a lot more succesfull if they hadn't fallen out with highly able key personnel.
Posted 02 May 2012 - 17:53