"Pérez too inexperienced for Ferrari" *cough cough*

Doing fine like being only one to spin in the race and lose something like 7 places?

He did better than Perez did last race. He had a horrible race in Spain as well.

Edited by bollard, 11 June 2012 - 10:32.

I think what Luca's point was that Perez was too inexperienced to handle the monumental pressure being a Ferrari driver brings in addition to being a teammate to arguably the best driver in Formula 1 at the moment.In that sense,I agree Perez is a bit inexperienced.

But that all looks a little silly when you look at Hamilton's debut season. Nobody would have believed that a rookie would draw even with Fernando Alonso.

It's a silly excuse to use. Ferrari just doesn't want Perez yet, likely because they have something else developing down the pipeline (such as Webber).

Edited by UPRC, 11 June 2012 - 10:33.

I am not sure how well Kobayashi can be thought of considering the best driver he beat before Perez was Pedro Dela Rosa. To be legitimately well thought of, and not just hype, you have to actually accomplish something impressive and he hasn't. 2.5 seasons in the sport and best finishing position of 5th. Perez seems solid, barely better than Kobayashi though, and often out paced by him, so I am not sure how those are credentials to replace a proven driver like Massa.

You'll do just fine here.

Very oportunistic and silly topic, I wonder if you will have the guts to open another topic like this when Perez do nothing or is beaten by Kamui.

Why not consider Kobayashi to be at least on par with a Heidfeld, Fisichella, late career Frentzen etc,... that is why Peter Sauber continues to provide him with a seat (3rd season!) after all.

For Perez to be edging out a strong F1 driver like that is exactly what he needs to, IMO.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 11 June 2012 - 10:52.

He did better than Perez did last race. He had a horrible race in Spain as well.

Sorry don't remember Perez's Monaco race so can't comment. But even if he has one race worse than Massa's best race, it's not enough to say Massa has done better job. Or do you disagree?

Fernando and Perez would make a nice team
And will make Ferrari even "more spanish" after Santander, Alonso and Gene

I am not sure how well Kobayashi can be thought of considering the best driver he beat before Perez was Pedro Dela Rosa. To be legitimately well thought of, and not just hype, you have to actually accomplish something impressive and he hasn't. 2.5 seasons in the sport and best finishing position of 5th. Perez seems solid, barely better than Kobayashi though, and often out paced by him, so I am not sure how those are credentials to replace a proven driver like Massa.

You'll do just fine here.

So Kobayashi can't be nothing special because he has only beaten Dela Rosa who's nothing special? Therefore Perez cant be nothing special? Hmm I think watching races and analyzing performance on track gives better conclusions than basic team mate comparisons.

I don't think many drivers could take 2010 - 2011 Sauber to places 1-4. But again, didn't pay too much attention there either so could be wrong.

You'll do just fine here.




So Kobayashi can't be nothing special because he has only beaten Dela Rosa who's nothing special? Therefore Perez cant be nothing special? Hmm I think watching races and analyzing performance on track gives better conclusions than basic team mate comparisons.

I don't think many drivers could take 2010 - 2011 Sauber to places 1-4. But again, didn't pay too much attention there either so could be wrong.

The first step in analysing performance is the comparison to your team mate, because he is the only driver with the same machinery, everyone knows this, and that is why all drivers say the first person you have to beat is your team mate.

The first step in analysing performance is the comparison to your team mate, because he is the only driver with the same machinery, everyone knows this, and that is why all drivers say the first person you have to beat is your team mate.

Kobayashi beat De la Rosa so what is your point?

Kobayashi beat De la Rosa so what is your point?

De la Rosa was a 40 year old test driver for the last decade. That is my point. Why should we think highly of Kobayashi for that?

Edited by bollard, 11 June 2012 - 11:12.

De la Rosa was a 40 year old test driver for the last decade. That is my point. Why should we think highly of Kobayashi for that?

We shouldn't. Judging a drivers performance solely on which team mates they've beaten is stupid. It is far better to judge them on their actual race performances. By your logic Alonso isn't a very good driver as the only great driver he has been paired with he failed to beat over a season.

The first step in analysing performance is the comparison to your team mate, because he is the only driver with the same machinery, everyone knows this, and that is why all drivers say the first person you have to beat is your team mate.

it's almost impossible to make straight comparison for same race b/w Sauber drivers because they always take split / hedge strategy. You have to look into detail of what was happening for analysing. And not sure which is better but at least both drivers are doing exceptionally well.

To be legitimately well thought of, and not just hype, you have to actually accomplish something impressive and he hasn't.

'Impressive' is relative. You don't state what you think 'Impressive' might be in this case, which makes your view impossible to either challenge or validate.

In the same way that it was possible to see Alonso was an excellent driver even though he was in a Minardi, I believe it is possible to say the same of Kobayashi and Perez. Massa just isn't doing that right now.

De la Rosa was a 40 year old test driver for the last decade. That is my point. Why should we think highly of Kobayashi for that?

That's just a lazy observation, devoid of any real analysis. Even if this were a discussion about Kobayashi (which it isn't) we have a separate thread for silly logic like that.

It's quite simple - Ferrari don't want to unsettle Alonso. Why on earth would they hire Perez? Maybe when Alonso retires.

That's just a lazy observation, devoid of any real analysis. Even if this were a discussion about Kobayashi (which it isn't) we have a separate thread for silly logic like that.

To add to your post, De la Rosa was actually miles faster than the Marussias and his slow teammate at least in qualifying at Montreal. He was even close to one Caterham AFAIR. Surely the man is not quite as slow or bad as people would like to believe.

Also, I have followed Koba's career since he started, and though he has a tendency to be rather anonymous at some tracks, he has been a BEAST of a midfield driver, if you watched every race with him. Brilliant overtakes, great at managing tyre wear (Just look up Valencia 2010. From 10th to 7th in one lap, after having drove almost the entire race on the same set of tyres!) and also pretty fast. In fact Perez and him are surprisingly similar both in skills behind the wheel and racecraft. YOu simply have to follow them closely in the races to see that neither are slower than the others - when differences appear in results its usually down to their different strategies as well as luck and so on.

You guys didn't buy that about his inexperience, did you?

i am frustrated when perez seem nowhere in the next race

De la Rosa was a 40 year old test driver for the last decade. That is my point. Why should we think highly of Kobayashi for that?

Until De la Rosa was dropped, they were 7-7 in qualifying, with De la Rosa having made it two times into Q3 while KK only once.

De la Rosa had massive bad luck with reliability and his engine blew up every now and then.

Edited by SirRacer, 11 June 2012 - 13:56.

It's quite simple - Ferrari don't want to unsettle Alonso. Why on earth would they hire Perez? Maybe when Alonso retires.

Ferrari, of all teams, aren't purposefully going to hurt their WCC chances. Its in their best interest to hire a quick driver who will do better than Massa has been doing. Or keep Massa if he actually starts to become close to Alonso regularly. They've been patient with Massa, but I'm pretty sure the plan before Monaco happened was to start seriously evaluating who they were going to bring in to replace him for 2013. I think Perez is on their possible future list, but not now. Ferrari say they need a more experienced driver but I think thats their nice way of saying they need somebody who is a bit more proven. They dont want to directly put down Perez to the public. But its true he still has more to prove. He has to get the better of Kobayashi more frequently, I think.

You'll do just fine here.
So Kobayashi can't be nothing special because he has only beaten Dela Rosa who's nothing special? Therefore Perez cant be nothing special? Hmm I think watching races and analyzing performance on track gives better conclusions than basic team mate comparisons.

I don't think many drivers could take 2010 - 2011 Sauber to places 1-4. But again, didn't pay too much attention there either so could be wrong.

A driver who is something special is one who can shine in an inferior car at young age and deliver special results much better than the car should be capable of.

Senna - Portugal 1985.
Schumacher - Spain and Belgium 1992.
Raikkonen - France 2002.
Alonso - Malaysia and Hungary 2003.
Button - Hungary 2006.
Kubica - Canada 2008.
Vettel - Italy 2008.
Rosberg - Australia and Singapore 2008.
Perez - Malaysia and Canada 2012.

I have seen nothing like that yet from Kobayashi. He's been in the sport for 3 years now and his best result is a 5th place. He's overhyped and nothing special.

Ferrari, of all teams, aren't purposefully going to hurt their WCC chances. Its in their best interest to hire a quick driver who will do better than Massa has been doing. Or keep Massa if he actually starts to become close to Alonso regularly. They've been patient with Massa, but I'm pretty sure the plan before Monaco happened was to start seriously evaluating who they were going to bring in to replace him for 2013. I think Perez is on their possible future list, but not now. Ferrari say they need a more experienced driver but I think thats their nice way of saying they need somebody who is a bit more proven. They dont want to directly put down Perez to the public. But its true he still has more to prove. He has to get the better of Kobayashi more frequently, I think.

If Ferrari wants a more experienced driver is because young inexperienced drivers may be more ambitious, and difficult to handle.

I have seen nothing like that yet from Kobayashi. He's been in the sport for 3 years now and his best result is a 5th place. He's overhyped and nothing special.

2009 Abu dhabi? that's the only reason he's in F1 now.
also 2010 Suzuka, Valencia, 2011 Monaco, Canada, 2012 Spain...

What Kobayashi lacks is utter luck. Perez in Malaysia, tyre change timing and tire choice and everything outside his control such as other teams strategy and failure/mistake turned out to be in his favour. For Canada as well, he and Kimi were only driver who had optimum strategy of S>SS one stopper. All the other cars in front of him just failed by themselves and made way for him. Both races he delivered beautifully, that's the point tho, I'm super excited.

Kamui on the other hand hasnt got such miracle-esque luck.
2011 Canada if the rain had stayed weak enough not to stop the race he wouldve been in podium. 2011 Monaco it was unlucky for him that organizer allowed tire change before restart. etc etc.


Also Kamui for 2012, just offhand.

At Malaysia, his rear damper was slowly failing from in the middle of FP3. Team could identify the problem only because he kept insisting strongly that sth was defo wrong with rear suspension for several hours after Quali.
In the race, he asked for wet tyres on lap 2 or so but team ordered him to stay out (eventually pitting him on lap 9 or so). When it was drying up, he asked for dry tyres earlier, but again team ordered him to stay out (both in order to take hedge position with Perez strategy). Despite his rear suspension setup terrible hence rear stepping out horribly due to issue on Saturday, in the race he kept the car on track during wet period, and put very good laps when drying with slowly fading brakes. Eventually his brake failed and had to retire.

At Spain, his Q2 best lap was set with right rear tyre (iirc) being sprayed with leaking oil from his car. Without which he wouldve gone on to Q3 and started from better position. Then in the race the team gave him bad strategy and slow pitstop (like 8sec instead of 5 or 4sec), so he lost positions and had to do unnecessary overtaking or re-overtake (BUT and ROS) to crawl back. Pace wise, podium was possible if everything went well, even from "compromised" grid position.

Canada, he was stuck behind Kimi and di Resta for long time at critical point of the race, which cost him 15sec in total at minimum. Plus team changed strategy from 2 stopper to 1 stopper in the middle of the race. SS>S 1 stopper was the strategy that was meant to fail in the first place (everyone else except GRO made 2nd stop or suffered terrible cliff (Alonso)). Despite so, laptime comparison with Grosjean (who had same strategy) suggests that if he had been without Kimi and di Resta blocking him, he couldve challenged for podium.

Kamui on the other hand hasnt got such miracle-esque luck.
2011 Canada if the rain had stayed weak enough not to stop the race he wouldve been in podium. 2011 Monaco it was unlucky for him that organizer allowed tire change before restart. etc etc.

In both races he had been incredibly lucky before those moments though... Safety Car timing in Monaco and tyre change timing in Canada (basically the podium you say luck denied him, would have been won by sheer luck anyway).

Edited by Collective, 13 June 2012 - 18:02.

In both races he had been incredibly lucky before those moments though... Safety Car timing in Monaco and tyre change timing in Canada (basically the podium you say luck denied him, would have been won by sheer luck anyway).

In Canada 2011 though as long as it stayed wet Kamui was pulling away from Massa and consolidating his second position, and was second quickest only to a certain Vettel before the track started drying out, after which he couldn't compensate for driving a crap car and went back through the field.

This year IMO Kobayashi's luck has been appalling, in addition to Muramasa's list I would add the fact that in China he started from P3 on top of an oil spill from a preceding support race which is why he bogged down. Last year he was on for good points positions in Spa and Silverstone before he was taken out by other drivers, even with those accidents he still totally outscored Perez.

The problem with looking at midfield teams is that such teams tend to hedge and split strategies, making one look far better than the other if the bet succeeds for one driver only. IMO Perez and Kobayashi are strikingly similar in overall performance although Perez is slightly more accident prone.

Paul di Resta fans know this acutely, while Sutil was often quicker than him the gap between the two was accentuated by the contrasting strategies for the two drivers which tended to work out for the German more than the Brit.

Edited by Talisman, 13 June 2012 - 18:12.

Sergio Pérez 37 pts
Kamui Kobayashi 21 pts
Felipe Massa 11 pts

Hmm Luca time to stay out of driver selection for the time being ?

If Ferrari are serious about signing Webber, 36, over a driver who could very well be the greatest talent since Vettel, they can't be serious. Really.

Mark Webber 79 pts

Perez will be ideal for any top team within the next year but I think he should stick with Sauber for another year at the very least. He is a fine talent and the way he caressed his tires while coming out doing fast laps at the end in the Canadian GP was the stuff of Champions. Fantastic talent and is more than ready to fill Massa's shoes and do a heck lot better. I noticed Rob Smedley couldn't hide his joy when Rosberg had to give his position back to Massa and Perez pipped Nico at the slightest opportunity and then he did one better by passing Massa.

For Ferrari, he'll be perfect for next year but maybe not for himself since I believe Alonso will surely trump him real bad and make him look just ordinary. He can be the perfect prodigy for Alonso and learn a heck lot and since both are Latin, they'll get along just fine and I think Perez will respect Alonso just enough and know he'll be no.2 until Alonso's gas runs out. Perez has a unique character, very thankful and patriotic but also knows his place. He looked eager to celebrate with team and fans and not too eager on the Sky Sports interview because let's face it, he is already a new star and his time should be valuable.

I see a good, smooth driver and aggressive when needed to be, very Schumacher & Alonso-esque.

In both races he had been incredibly lucky before those moments though... Safety Car timing in Monaco and tyre change timing in Canada (basically the podium you say luck denied him, would have been won by sheer luck anyway).

my point is that the "lucky" stopped in the middle.

This year IMO Kobayashi's luck has been appalling, in addition to Muramasa's list I would add the fact that in China he started from P3 on top of an oil spill from a preceding support race which is why he bogged down. Last year he was on for good points positions in Spa and Silverstone before he was taken out by other drivers, even with those accidents he still totally outscored Perez.

To add even more, in OZ 2012 one of his rear wing endplates was damaged at T1 of opening lap and was flipfloping like butterfly for many part of the race. And not to mention what happened in Monaco.

Regarding last year, his pointless streak in the 2nd half the 2011, none of those poor races were Kamui's fault. His bad luck during the period was almost miracle. Even the final 2 races of 2011, as well as early races like Turkey, Spain etc, where he scored points, he was hindered by slow pitstops, bad strategy and car damage that wasnt his fault.

One can say quali is his weak point, maybe that's true but he almost always more than compensate by putting strong race pace, proving that the team and he are targeting on race pace rather than quali.

The problem with looking at midfield teams is that such teams tend to hedge and split strategies, making one look far better than the other if the bet succeeds for one driver only. IMO Perez and Kobayashi are strikingly similar in overall performance although Perez is slightly more accident prone.

Paul di Resta fans know this acutely, while Sutil was often quicker than him the gap between the two was accentuated by the contrasting strategies for the two drivers which tended to work out for the German more than the Brit.

So true.
For top teams, everyone pays attention and analyzes, but midfield teams people dont, even the likes of Brundle, DC etc dont.

Plus, many anecdotes and facts about Kamui, like 2012 Malaysia's and Spain's I wrote in my prev post, are not reported in western media. I got to know those from Japanese motorsports media and havent seen them reported elsewhere at all. Kamui works so hard and puts in great performances and makes extremely few mistakes yet his efforts are ignored by many and not rewarded with big points, I feel pity for him.


Anyway for Sauber drivers, I dont know exactly what level they are compared to Alo, Vet, LH etc but by close observation they are doing exceptional job at least. Perez is nice, humble, friendly guy and Kamui is fine, positive, smart guy, I like them and want both to graduate to better teams, or Sauber to become top team for them.

Perez has had some brilliant moments this season but overall, I'm still not convinced he's any better than Kobayashi. I have high hopes for him but he needs to put together consistently strong results if Ferrari is going to seriously think about putting him in the car alongside Alonso. That seat is a big deal.

So why is Massa still sitting in it?

Plus, many anecdotes and facts about Kamui, like 2012 Malaysia's and Spain's I wrote in my prev post, are not reported in western media. I got to know those from Japanese motorsports media and havent seen them reported elsewhere at all. Kamui works so hard and puts in great performances and makes extremely few mistakes yet his efforts are ignored by many and not rewarded with big points, I feel pity for him.

A lot of Japanese stuff simply doesn't get through to the Western media.

I remember back when Nakamoto was at Honda and would write in-depth summaries on the official Honda Japan website after each race including what he thought the problem was (and there were many) with their team etc etc. None of it surfaced in the Western media despite it being on a mainstream website, and a lot of it was contradictory or complementary to what the press here were saying.

There are a lot of bizarre myths that get propogated here too, like Honda starting Super Aguri F1 only to give Sato a seat because there were riots when he was dumped from the main team. Again anyone who had spent more than a few days in Japan would have known that Sato wasn't important enough for Honda's marketing to spend $10's of millions on a team for and that there weren't any riots, but magazines like Autosport carried on with it regardless.

Kobayashi's tweets are another example, he gives frank explanations of what happened after each session, none of it gets through to the Western media despite it being freely available, there appears to be no effort to translate stuff at all.

The only reason Massa is still there is not to upset Alonso. Drivers have been sacked for far better performances.

Some of the responses about Perez fall inbetween laughable and insulting, look at Massa at the point in his career that Perez is now. Zero podiums and couldn't keep a car on the road in the wet, Massa must have had some truly awful pictures of upper level Ferrari management in comprimising positions to keep his drive. Massa hasn't scored a podium in the entire time Perez has been in F1! Alonso has 13. And you tell me he is doing a better job than Perez?

He only had one season in 2008 that his teammate didn't completely walk all over him, and that is getting on half a decade ago. In fact, I attribute much of Ferrari's recent woes to only having the one driver they can rely upon for technical knowhow, because Massa has no clear understanding of the cars.

So what is the purpose of the Ferrari driver programme? I thought it was to nurture future drivers for Ferrari. If Perez is not experienced enough in 2013, then when will he be? Will it be for 2014? If so will that be as an equal driver or a number 2 driver? I don't think Ferrari know. Is he being groomed to join after Alonso leaves? If the rumours are true about Seb, then Perez has a long wait until he becomes a Ferrari driver. Or is he going to be part of a bargaining tool with the new engine regs. They will want to reap a reward on him. As nobody knows the extent of his contract with Ferrari it is difficult to guage what the scenario's will be for Perez. I just don't understand the logic of it.

It's quite simple - Ferrari don't want to unsettle Alonso. Why on earth would they hire Perez? Maybe when Alonso retires.

It is quite funny when two years ago everyone was predicting fireworks at Ferrari with Alonso humiliated by Massa. We even had a very fierce "Massa vs Alonso" thread, but it just faded away somehow

Perez choked when it counted. With a faster car, he just could not make the pass on Alonso at Malaysia. Put them in the same car with Alonso and Perez Formula 1 career is over.

Edited by fabr68, 13 June 2012 - 23:38.

It is quite funny when two years ago everyone was predicting fireworks at Ferrari with Alonso humiliated by Massa. We even had a very fierce "Massa vs Alonso" thread, but it just faded away somehow

Perez choked when it counted. With a faster car, he just could not make the pass on Alonso at Malaysia. Put them in the same car with Alonso and Perez Formula 1 career is over.

This.

There is nothing for him at Ferrari.

It's neither opportunistic or silly. It's timely.

Massa is fighting for his career right now and seems to be doing everything in his power to keep Ferrari far away from the WCC. Perez, on the other hand, has done a brilliant job from day one. Bearing in mind how well thought of Kobayashi is, and the threads that here talking about him in terms of WDC's, better cars etc, and now we have the rookie Mexican beating him solidly on a regular basis, I really don't see why it's silly.

Perez is sensible, likeable, calm, fast and smart. He is making the very most of the equipment he has available to him. In fact he reminds me a lot of Ferrari's current #1 driver.

Agree completely!

Perez, should he adapt to the Ferrari as well as the Sauber, would be doing a much better job than Massa this season I'm sure. He's amazingly consistent, fast and is king at making these styrofoam tyres last longer than they should. And he's been like this from his first race last year where he was running in strong points with 1 less stop than those around him.

I still insist moving to Ferrari now would be a bad move for Perez though. Sauber are on an upward curve and have made a great car which obviously suits Perez's style. If he hastily moved to Ferrari with a car that looks more difficult to drive (and probably isn't much faster if at all than the Sauber) then he could find himself looking pretty embarrassed and in a weak position against Alonso.

Reminds me of when Fisi jumped mid season from Force India to Ferrari to take Massas place after his injury. Force India had a great season and Fisi was on fire. He should have won the Spa GP had it not been for Raikkonen being Godlike around Spa. Once Fisi switched he was nowhere. Slow, making unforced errors, the car was obviously nowhere near as drivable as the FI and his failure to adapt to it ended his career earlier than maybe it would have.

They are chasing webber hard, hence the quotes in this story.

Ferrari chances this year at WCC title are compromised, since you cannot win this title with one driver scoring points and other doing nothing.
Tbh, they problably allready quit on the goal of WCC and focus on getting the WDC for Alonso, but, why they are not thinking ahead? This year is lost, but why loose next year as well?
From outside, a smart move is to start look for a replacement for Massa kinda now, to have a chance to see how the " next driver " perform with the package Ferrari puts at his disposal... the question for them shoulb be like this - What we neeed, a young driver who can be enlisted on a 4y contract and deliver for us or get a proven sidekick for a year and see from there?
Second, the financial package. There is crisis, and enlisting a driver that comes with huge sponsorships in the backpack will be 40% of the decision. Ferrari will loose Santander next year as spanish banks will be forced to cut all extra expenses. Comparing Webber to Perez, the sponsorship package that Sergio brings ( Telmex, Claro ... ) will compensate on equal terms if not better the Santander lost.
Valencia is a key race now. If Perez deliver another great performance he may sign his contract for next year second Ferrari spot.

Ferrari Warn Perez to be Less Aggressive

Maybe they don't want him creaming Massa and hunting down Alonso?

Although, according to the article they said it after Monaco, and were pleased with Canada's result, so I don't think so.

Perez, should he adapt to the Ferrari as well as the Sauber, would be doing a much better job than Massa this season I'm sure.

Massa, should he have adapted to 2012 Ferrari as good as Perez did at Sauber would have done a much better job, I am sure

http://www.formula1....12/6/13459.html

"Ferrari: Perez’s Montreal showing ‘a great response"
_______

Well now Checo is being lauded again - earlier on he was 'not ready'. One has to wonder if it has anything to do with the great sponsorship he has traditionally had behind him. The opposite of cutting costs is finding ways to liberally cover them...

I honestly hope he doesn't end up at Ferrari while Alonso is there. I hope they don't see him as a money bag to step in and assuage their future monetary concerns while serving as yet another diminished #2. I hope his sponsor puts his foot down against anything of the sort happening.

But those who earlier were suggesting money problems related to their current sponsor(s) may not have been off the mark. It isn't that Ferrari is broke, but they do have to look to their future, and if major money is flailing, then it is only good business to look elsewhere. That's fine - just not at Checo's expense. Really tired now of watching these careers go KAPUT at Ferrari. According to A. Senna, Rubens had potential; Massa had potential too - and neither realized. Perez has even more - can't abide the thought of it going to waste.

Edited by bourbon, 14 June 2012 - 21:14.

Rubens was just near somebody way better. He was good though
Massa showed his worth near Kimi. Maybe not at Kimi's level but results wise pretty close. He is no match for Alonso though

http://www.formula1....12/6/13459.html

"Ferrari: Perez’s Montreal showing ‘a great response"
_______

Well now Checo is being lauded again - earlier on he was 'not ready'. One has to wonder if it has anything to do with the great sponsorship he has traditionally had behind him. The opposite of cutting costs is finding ways to liberally cover them...

I honestly hope he doesn't end up at Ferrari while Alonso is there. I hope they don't see him as a money bag to step in and assuage their future monetary concerns while serving as yet another diminished #2. I hope his sponsor puts his foot down against anything of the sort happening.

But those who earlier were suggesting money problems related to their current sponsor(s) may not have been off the mark. It isn't that Ferrari is broke, but they do have to look to their future, and if major money is flailing, then it is only good business to look elsewhere. That's fine - just not at Checo's expense. Really tired now of watching these careers go KAPUT at Ferrari. According to A. Senna, Rubens had potential; Massa had potential too - and neither realized. Perez has even more - can't abide the thought of it going to waste.

Funny, both Rubens and Fellipe won races. For Ferrari. If it weren't for Ferrari, they would most likely never have won a race. What a waste, that both these guys won races, and 1 of them was the preferred driver for a couple of seasons, and nearly won the WDC. What a waste of drivers talent that otherwise would have likely been spent in the backmarkers. Nasty Ferrari for giving them a chance to win races and championships.

Funny, both Rubens and Fellipe won races. For Ferrari. If it weren't for Ferrari, they would most likely never have won a race. What a waste, that both these guys won races, and 1 of them was the preferred driver for a couple of seasons, and nearly won the WDC. What a waste of drivers talent that otherwise would have likely been spent in the backmarkers. Nasty Ferrari for giving them a chance to win races and championships.

Didn't Rubens win in a Brawn, twice? I agree on Massa though.

http://www.formula1....12/6/13459.html

"Ferrari: Perez’s Montreal showing ‘a great response"

Such nonsense. Perez "lets himself down by being too aggressive'. Yeah Massa's experience means he doesn't let that happen to him. Oh wait.

Baulked at a similar report in Metro this morning claiming Perez was too aggressive but didn't mention anything to back this claim up. Completely lazy journalism. Perez has arguably been the best driver of the last two seasons in terms making the tyres last longer than they should whilst not being pressured into many mistakes from faster cars behind. The only mistake I recall was when he was catching Alonso at Sepang but he can hardly be called too aggressive for making a small mistake in wet conditions when trying to get his first win in his 2nd year against arguably the best driver on the grid.

well, to add some hummor to this thread, think at what nightmares Rob Smedley may have thinking that he may have to say this next year :

On TEAM RADIO "Fernando, Sergio is faster than you, I repeat Sergio is faster then you"

Baulked at a similar report in Metro this morning claiming Perez was too aggressive but didn't mention anything to back this claim up. Completely lazy journalism. Perez has arguably been the best driver of the last two seasons in terms making the tyres last longer than they should whilst not being pressured into many mistakes from faster cars behind. The only mistake I recall was when he was catching Alonso at Sepang but he can hardly be called too aggressive for making a small mistake in wet conditions when trying to get his first win in his 2nd year against arguably the best driver on the grid.

He had a bit over the top moments last year: crashed into Heidfeld and Sutil in China, ruined a great position in Spa by running into the back of Buemi. This year... yeah maybe Sepang and being in Arcade mode in Monaco. And in Barcelona some argue he should have yielded to Grosjean at the start (a view that I don't share).

But I think he's maturing fast and delivering.

It is quite funny when two years ago everyone was predicting fireworks at Ferrari with Alonso humiliated by Massa. We even had a very fierce "Massa vs Alonso" thread, but it just faded away somehow

Perez choked when it counted. With a faster car, he just could not make the pass on Alonso at Malaysia. Put them in the same car with Alonso and Perez Formula 1 career is over.

I suppose your supposition regarding the end of SP's career if he joined Ferrari is bang on but not for the reasons you think. Alonso is truly a Machevallian character, and knows how to coalesce a team around him, and when he does not, watch out, as in 2007. He is very much like Senna in this regard, a total political animal. He would undoubtly ensure that Perez would die a painfully slow death at Ferrari especially if he continued to perform as he is in Sauber currently.

And please I am not taking away from Alonso's skill as a driver, which is at a very high level, but not as high as his skill in manipulating those around him.

Rubens was just near somebody way better. He was good though
Massa showed his worth near Kimi. Maybe not at Kimi's level but results wise pretty close. He is no match for Alonso though

Hmmm, didn't he have an advisor of a sort at that time... some sort of retired driver under the Ferrari contract at the time? Massa is average at best, capable of showing something when being pampered. But, unfortunately for him, nobody's there to pamper him now- he can give his best if the team pushes him forward and he can 'repay' them with results, but there is no 'outside' push starting this "viscious circle" without MS now....

Unfortunately for Ferrari, they need two strong drivers with one being the 'driving force' to hedge their bets on- the ideal pairing would be Alonso and Rosberg- with Rosberg being able to assume *wingman* support if he falls with points behind Alonso, but able to bring fight to him while they're 'even' on points in C'ship. Luckily for Rosberg, and unfortunately for Ferrari, I don't see Rosberg leaving his position with Mercedes- but, other than that, I would relinquish the prospects with savour (esp. if Nico starts off the season with few good results)...