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Where is the Donington MP4/8?

Started by toolish , Jun 20 2012 11:27

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37 replies to this topic

#1 toolish

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:27

Dear all, Monday, me and a friend traveled all the way from Belgium to Donington to visit the Grand Prix Collection, hoping the McLaren MP4/8 in which Ayrton won the European Grand Prix would be there. Alas: the only Senna car on exhibit was a 1990 MP4/5B - no sign of the MP4/4, the MP4/5 or the MP4/6, too. It seems McLaren have decided to move some of their historic cars to their road car dealerships.

The question remains, though: where is the car Ayrton won that Grand Prix with? Does anyone know?

#2 jimjimjeroo

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:44

I read somewhere that Ron Dennis has been retrieving all the cars that have been sold by McLaren in the past, they could all be back at Woking?!

#3 Ted Walker

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 15:15

Most of the later McLaren cars were on loan from McLarens.

#4 Pullman99

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 15:27

Was the car that Paul Lanzante was running (at Mallory and Goodwood in 2009) supposedly the European Grand Prix winner from 1993?

#5 zoff2005

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 15:34

There is a Senna car at the McLaren dealer in Monaco. It's red and white if that helps

Marcus

Edited by zoff2005, 20 June 2012 - 15:36.

#6 LB

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 15:38

Have the grounds around the Museum recovered from the mud of the Download festival yet?

#7 zoff2005

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 16:12

According to my contact at the McLaren dealership, the car in Monaco is one of those that won in the Principality, chassis plate says MP4/8-05 (FIA 93/05). It is Ford powered (but has no engine as the engine did not belong to McLaren).

I understand the idea was to despatch the cars to dealers in countries where the chassis had won, i.e. Belgium got a car that won at Spa, France got a car that won in France etc. Monaco had an extensive choice and chose this chassis. Quite where this system leaves the car that won the European GP is a mystery! (unless it is the same chassis that won at Monaco, which is quite possible).

Marcus

Edited by zoff2005, 20 June 2012 - 16:22.

#8 Pink Snail

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 16:56

I drove past the McLaren Dealership in Cheshire last week and noticed the John Watson British GP car #7 in the showroom. Didn`t stop to get any info...not much room to park my lorry!! I haven`t been in to the collection recently so wouldn`t be able to give any answers. The McLaren hall may be some way through a re-vamp and I also believe there is due to be an in-flux of Williams cars shortly.

#9 mfd

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 23:06

Was the car that Paul Lanzante was running (at Mallory and Goodwood in 2009) supposedly the European Grand Prix winner from 1993?

That's the (only) car in private ownership, driven at 09 FoS by Bruno Senna & it is the 93 Monaco winner, but not the Donington race

#10 toolish

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:55

The grounds around the museum looked alright, but I must say we were disappointed by the general state of the museum: it doesn't seem to get a great deal of care, and neither do the cars. If I worked there, I would be wiping the dust off those cars every single day. Also, the things you can buy at the shop are terribly out of date. A shame, really.

#11 john ruston

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 06:08

Suppose it's a car sales showroom these days.
Seems that's what the owners want.It is their money and quite correctly can do what they want with the place.
Not in the nations best interest but what's the alternative?

#12 bill p

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:36

"Monaco" MP4/8-05

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#13 zepunishment

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:56

Suppose it's a car sales showroom these days.
Seems that's what the owners want.It is their money and quite correctly can do what they want with the place.
Not in the nations best interest but what's the alternative?

I suppose in terms of preservation it is good that the cars are spread out a little. I always wondered what would happen if that warehouse in Woking that Mclaren used to store the majority of their old cars in burned down.

#14 toolish

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:03

If that's the Monaco MP4/8, then the Ford logo is not the original one. The team changed it to a blue version at the British Grand Prix, when they got a better engine from Ford.

#15 mfd

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:37

If that's the Monaco MP4/8, then ...

Trust me, it's not.

#16 toolish

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 10:42

Trust me, it's not.

Where is it, then? Is that a question you can ask McLaren themselves?

#17 mfd

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 14:15

Where is it, then? Is that a question you can ask McLaren themselves?

I don't have to. Did you read my previous post #9?

#18 bill p

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 15:48

"Monaco" MP4/8-05

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I should have noted that this is the McLaren in the Monaco Mercedes/McLaren Dealership as of 3 May 2012

#19 mfd

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 16:21

I should have noted that this is the McLaren in the Monaco Mercedes/McLaren Dealership as of 3 May 2012

If that's MP4/8-05 Bill, it's not the Monaco winner (& it's wearing the sanitised livery sans Marlboro chevrons & lettering)

#20 mikegtr

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 17:03

If that's MP4/8-05 Bill, it's not the Monaco winner (& it's wearing the sanitised livery sans Marlboro chevrons & lettering)

If i'm correct MP4/8-05 was never raced by Ayrton Senna #8 but always carried the #7 and was raced by Michael Andretti and Mika Hakinen. Shame that Mclaren cannot keep the correct driver/number on the chassis.

Mike

#21 mfd

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 17:47

If i'm correct MP4/8-05 was never raced by Ayrton Senna #8 but always carried the #7 and was raced by Michael Andretti and Mika Hakinen. Shame that Mclaren cannot keep the correct driver/number on the chassis.
Mike

Correct Mike, but as far as marketing is concerned they're all Ayrton Senna cars

Chassis #3 won Brazil & Donington, chassis #6 won Monaco & chassis #8 won Japan & Australia...the rest he breathed on (that's a joke) #5 was his spare a few times otherwise Andretti raced it

#22 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:36

The grounds around the museum looked alright, but I must say we were disappointed by the general state of the museum: it doesn't seem to get a great deal of care, and neither do the cars. If I worked there, I would be wiping the dust off those cars every single day. Also, the things you can buy at the shop are terribly out of date. A shame, really.

Was it your first visit there? That surprises me as it looked better then ever when I was recently there and the curator Garry Rankine had put in a lot of work by painting all the floors, changing the lighting and moving the cars around and making them more accessible. Garry also looks after the shop and stock and whilst there is some older stuff in the shop there is also a lot of new stuff. See below from the museum thread about McLaren MP4s:-

QUOTE (arttidesco @ May 21 2012, 14:07)
Just noticed what happened to the massed ranks of MP4 McLarens ?

They've gone home I think.

And also comments on the Williams cars:-

There is now a dedicated Williams hall (a la McLaren hall) and I think there are another 15 (!!) Williams cars being delivered this week to supplement the 20ish Williams cars already there, so it will only get bigger and better.

#23 mfd

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 10:29

what happened to the massed ranks of MP4 McLarens? They've gone home I think.

The ranks of McLarens were there for some ten years or more. Now the situation has changed and they have other uses for the cars having established dealerships to sell the MP4/12C road car. They're using the F1 cars as attractions from a commercial point of view, instead of previously just a convenient place to display them.

Museums like Donington have never been great at generating income but we were lucky! It was a personal gesture of the Wheatcroft family to share their passion for collecting by displaying their own cars, with us as enthusiasts, as well as having sufficient space to house at various times other marques - McLaren, Williams & Brabhams, all benevolent gestures by those teams. It would be unfair to compare Donington to some of the more modern museums such as Audi, Porsche etc. as they're promoting the brand & for that reason, important to be "glossy" The costs to them, are immaterial whatever the footfall through the door is.

Back on topic

I'm afraid the easy access to the Donington winner might have slipped by for toolish & which ever dealership may claim to have it - I'd be very surprised if MP4/8-3 isn't at MTC in Woking

#24 Giraffe

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 16:19

I was on business at McLaren in Hockley Heath today, and they had the M14D/1 that I saw Denny Hulme finish in 3rd place at the 1970 British GP in the showroom.
The cars are being rotated around the showrooms at the moment.

Posted Image

By giraffe138 at 2012-06-22

#25 DogEarred

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 16:54

Museums like Donington have never been great at generating income but we were lucky! It was a personal gesture of the Wheatcroft family to share their passion for collecting by displaying their own cars, with us as enthusiasts, as well as having sufficient space to house at various times other marques - McLaren, Williams & Brabhams, all benevolent gestures by those teams. It would be unfair to compare Donington to some of the more modern museums such as Audi, Porsche etc. as they're promoting the brand & for that reason, important to be "glossy" The costs to them, are immaterial whatever the footfall through the door is.

Sir Frank Williams keeps at least one working example of all his cars (+ spares) for his museum. That's now a lot of vehicles. So with all the other projects his company is undertaking, there may be a lack of space & to 'lose' some may be useful.

#26 Buckley

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 13:19

The Donington MP4/8 is currently at the Hockley Heath Showroom. At least it still was this morning when I drove past it.

It seems they swap the cars round on a monthly basis, so I'd ring first if you intend to view it.

#27 mfd

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 13:29

The Donington MP4/8 is currently at the Hockley Heath Showroom. At least it still was this morning when I drove past it.
It seems they swap the cars round on a monthly basis, so I'd ring first if you intend to view it.

Could you read the chassis number as you went by

#28 Buckley

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 13:56

If I get time tonight I guess I could drop in and check.

Edited by Buckley, 06 July 2012 - 13:57.

#29 mfd

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 14:25

If I get time tonight I guess I could drop in and check.

It should say MP4-8/03 :up:

#30 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 21:59

I was on business at McLaren in Hockley Heath today, and they had the M14D/1 that I saw Denny Hulme finish in 3rd place at the 1970 British GP in the showroom.
The cars are being rotated around the showrooms at the moment.

By giraffe138 at 2012-06-22

Lovely car but it wouldn't have sat on slicks in 1970 would it?

#31 Tim Murray

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 22:56

This particular chassis wouldn't have, but other M14s were raced in 1971 by Peter Gethin and Jackie Oliver, on slicks for most if not all races.

#32 mfd

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 23:20

This particular chassis wouldn't have, but other M14s were raced in 1971 by Peter Gethin and Jackie Oliver, on slicks for most if not all races.

It's still not quite right in other ways too. I wonder why?

#33 Giraffe

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:12

The Donington MP4-8 has been loaned to the Hockley Heath showroom for 2 years. It was briefly borrowed and taken to Bahrain where it remained longer than anticipated, hence the stand-in M14D. The car is now back in place in the showroom, here it is pictured today......

Posted Image

By giraffe138 at 2012-07-09
Posted Image

By giraffe138 at 2012-07-09

Edited by Giraffe, 09 July 2012 - 16:13.

#34 alansart

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:17

Donington Collection 2007.

Posted Image

#35 mfd

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:21

The Donington MP4-8 has been loaned to the Hockley Heath showroom for 2 years. It was briefly borrowed and taken to Bahrain where it remained longer than anticipated, hence the stand-in M14D. The car is now back in place in the showroom, here it is pictured today......

Does that say 3 or 8 Tony?

#36 Giraffe

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:29

Does that say 3 or 8 Tony?

Bizzarely, it looks like some kind of overstamp, and reads like an "8" to me.......

Posted Image

By giraffe138 at 2012-07-09
Posted Image

By giraffe138 at 2012-07-09

#37 mfd

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 17:56

Bizzarely, it looks like some kind of overstamp, and reads like an "8" to me.......

It doesn't surprise me it has "McLaren" instead of M*rlb*r* branding but if the car now in Hockley Heath is chassis #8, it won at Suzuka & Adelaide - so the car Senna won his last two victories in.

#38 f1steveuk

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 18:03

Ok, I'll chip in !!!

I thought the MP4 s were numbered MP4/ up until the the MP4/11. There after they were numbered MP4- as in MP4-12.

This was backed up when I built the official F1 results database, using the official entry forms and full FIA records, so how come MP4-8??