There have been fumbled wheels, cross-threaded wheels, running over of a wheel gun and now a front jack failure.
What is the problem? Man or machine?
Edited by Disgrace, 24 June 2012 - 13:00.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 12:59
Edited by Disgrace, 24 June 2012 - 13:00.
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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:40
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:42
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:48
Sam Michael - the man with the golden touch...
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:49
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:49
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:50
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:50
I can't believe more hasn't been said about this.
I think it's fairly likely Lewis' second stop cost him the win yesterday. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:51
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:52
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:53
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:56
Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:57
Easy to blame Sam Michael, as the problems started when he came aboard. But is that really the problem? I'm not convinced...
As Vodafone McLaren Mercedes’ Sporting Director, Sam will join the senior management team in addition to taking specific responsibility for the development and management of the team’s trackside operations. His vast experience and profound understanding of race operations will enhance the team’s on-track capability, adding significantly to its already impressive technical management strength-in-depth
Posted 25 June 2012 - 12:07
Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:04
IMO, McLaren have been in a bit of an unfortunate spiral recently - where failures have caused more pressure, which in turn lead to more failures, which in turn leads to more pressure. It reminds me of the phase Ferrari went through in 2008.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:06
Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:08
Pitstops would normally be practiced by the mechanics each day for around 1 hour. It is done this way in Indycar, touring cars etc. So how hard can it be? They should know what they are doing.
To have about 1 bad pitstop out of 2 is ridiculous.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:08
If you do 120 pit stops a day... just 4/minute for 40 minutes, there is no way you could be that bad at them.I am sure they are doing enough practice pitstops. Increasing the pressure on the pit crew won´t improve the pitstops.
Edited by V8 Fireworks, 25 June 2012 - 13:10.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:17
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Posted 25 June 2012 - 13:36
Does anybody believe the mechanics do not know how to make a perfect pit stop? They had some bad luck (equipment failed) and some faults. Faults in such a high stress professional enviroment are hardly based on a lack of training, but rather on too much pressure. The leadership needs to install confidence in the mechanics and reduce the pressure they feel.
Edited by Jon83, 25 June 2012 - 13:36.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 14:37
Posted 25 June 2012 - 18:21
Posted 25 June 2012 - 18:44
Too hard in the sense of rushing and not engineering things properly, I suppose. I reckon Ron is more likely to see it as not trying hard enough though - not starting out with a solid procedure and following it.Maybe they are trying TOO Hard; that can force a mistake.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 18:51
Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:13
Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:19
I agree. Not a big Hammie fan but that pit crew is terrible. Ron Dennis must be getting old because I am shocked he hasn't handled this situation personally.I honestly feel for Hamilton. The guy is driving the wheels off that McLaren but the pit crew always hinder him.
Unfortunately I don't have nice words for McLaren.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:32
I agree. Not a big Hammie fan but that pit crew is terrible. Ron Dennis must be getting old because I am shocked he hasn't handled this situation personally.
Edited by PNSD, 25 June 2012 - 19:33.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 19:36
OK. You have changed my mind. All good points.Was he really any better?
The team lost the WCC thanks to the largest espionage case in the sports history. Aside from that under his reign there were also many clumsy team mistakes. They arguably made 98 and 99 harder than they should have been, and the 2000 season should have been 3 in a row.
As a team, Mclaren have never been that amazing, or at least they have not often experienced the same level of operational perfection Williams once did, Ferrari, RedBull and even Renault had in the past.
People are simply using Whitmarsh as an obvious scapegoat. Memories are not long enough to look back on the errors under Ron, which surely the £100million fine and loss of WCC was the largest.
It should be remembered that Mclaren have often appeared better than they are (as a team) due to specific drivers. Senna, Mika and arguably Lewis too. If people viewed history the way it should be, they might also see this but to blame Whitmarsh for everything is far easier ;)
edit - Look recently at 2006? Im sure there were a few strategic errors which cost wins that season.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:31
Was he really any better?
The team lost the WCC thanks to the largest espionage case in the sports history. Aside from that under his reign there were also many clumsy team mistakes. They arguably made 98 and 99 harder than they should have been, and the 2000 season should have been 3 in a row.
As a team, Mclaren have never been that amazing, or at least they have not often experienced the same level of operational perfection Williams once did, Ferrari, RedBull and even Renault had in the past.
People are simply using Whitmarsh as an obvious scapegoat. Memories are not long enough to look back on the errors under Ron, which surely the £100million fine and loss of WCC was the largest.
It should be remembered that Mclaren have often appeared better than they are (as a team) due to specific drivers. Senna, Mika and arguably Lewis too. If people viewed history the way it should be, they might also see this but to blame Whitmarsh for everything is far easier ;)
edit - Look recently at 2006? Im sure there were a few strategic errors which cost wins that season.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:48
Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:50
its a people problem, they fumble and panic abit, probably try to go too fast. the equipment issues are also there own fault, its their designs made inhouse, or atleast stuff they have picked.
they need a nascar pit coach and some mental health people to get the crew to perform consistly well.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:54
I don't think I agree that McLaren historically have appeared better than they are, but regardless, this is specifically about their pit stops this year, not about general operational performance. You can't deny they're worse than they've ever been. Now I'm not saying I know why this is, but it's undeniable IMO.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:26
Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:33
Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:43
I am pretty sure a mr C.liff and mr W.all cost him the victory even more.I can't believe more hasn't been said about this.
I think it's fairly likely Lewis' second stop cost him the win yesterday. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
Edited by Pyrone89, 25 June 2012 - 21:47.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:48
I am pretty sure a mr C.liff and mr W.all cost him the victory even more.
And don't forget that even Ferrari had some problems yesterday, as they almost send out Felipe out on 3 medium and 1 soft yesterday after his puncture
Posted 25 June 2012 - 21:57
Aren't those two the same guysAlmost as much as Mr C.Razy and Mr M.Aldonado cost him. But hey ho, that's nothing to do with McLaren's abysmal pitstops.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 22:00
Aren't those two the same guys
Posted 25 June 2012 - 22:55
As a team, Mclaren have never been that amazing
It should be remembered that Mclaren have often appeared better than they are (as a team) due to specific drivers.
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Posted 25 June 2012 - 23:07
hmmmm, well McLaren has a fairly long history and I dare say their dominance in the Can Am series was not too shabby at all, they've also done rather well at Indy and pre-Senna they bagged a few WDCs.....
Posted 25 June 2012 - 23:09
Like I said...Maybe they are trying TOO Hard; that can force a mistake.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 23:09
Was he really any better?
The team lost the WCC thanks to the largest espionage case in the sports history. Aside from that under his reign there were also many clumsy team mistakes. They arguably made 98 and 99 harder than they should have been, and the 2000 season should have been 3 in a row.
As a team, Mclaren have never been that amazing, or at least they have not often experienced the same level of operational perfection Williams once did, Ferrari, RedBull and even Renault had in the past.
People are simply using Whitmarsh as an obvious scapegoat. Memories are not long enough to look back on the errors under Ron, which surely the £100million fine and loss of WCC was the largest.
It should be remembered that Mclaren have often appeared better than they are (as a team) due to specific drivers. Senna, Mika and arguably Lewis too. If people viewed history the way it should be, they might also see this but to blame Whitmarsh for everything is far easier ;)
edit - Look recently at 2006? Im sure there were a few strategic errors which cost wins that season.
Edited by Mc_Silver, 25 June 2012 - 23:10.
Posted 25 June 2012 - 23:10
I was struck watching the penalty shoot out last night of the similarity between penalties and pit stops. Both are all about performing under pressure. In both, failure leads to more pressure which leads to a higher chance of future failure.
IMO, McLaren have been in a bit of an unfortunate spiral recently - where failures have caused more pressure, which in turn lead to more failures, which in turn leads to more pressure. It reminds me of the phase Ferrari went through in 2008.
as alonso fan, i have no problems with mclaren pit stops
Edited by Disgrace, 25 June 2012 - 23:12.
Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:50
I was struck watching the penalty shoot out last night of the similarity between penalties and pit stops. Both are all about performing under pressure. In both, failure leads to more pressure which leads to a higher chance of future failure.
IMO, McLaren have been in a bit of an unfortunate spiral recently - where failures have caused more pressure, which in turn lead to more failures, which in turn leads to more pressure. It reminds me of the phase Ferrari went through in 2008.
Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:14
Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:04
Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:26
Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:27
It was fast. Total pit time: 19.355. Button's second stop was also good, 19.640. To put into perspective, Alonso's first pit stop time was 19.789. They are actually good, McLaren mechanics, but error prone due to equipment or human neglect.Apparently, according to the Daily Telegraph, Lewis' first stop on Sunday was the fastest in motor sport racing history at 2.6 seconds!
Posted 26 June 2012 - 17:06
Posted 26 June 2012 - 17:48