RB was superb in Valencia, their car loves hard braking zones and accelerating out of slow corners, I am sure they are playing with off-throttle mode. They confirmed today they were very competitive at a high-speed circuit as well, which is a massive improvement from Barcelona where they were clearly behind McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus and even Williams.
I really fear Vettel will walk away with his third title. I wouldn't been able to accept it because Fernando has been driving extremely well, brilliantly so far this year. He is the best driver, no doubts about it. So I fear from a cruise for Red Bull for the secind half of the season.
Red Bull dominance soon?
Started by
FerrariAlonso
, Jul 08 2012 15:07
64 replies to this topic
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#2
bub
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:09
I think Vettel will win WDC and Redbull WCC.
#3
Lights
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:11
Red Bull WCC is inevitable. It'll need a lot more of perfect performances of Alonso and some extra luck if he wants to win the title.
#4
LoudHoward
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:12
It's a pity they got Webber's qualifying strategy wrong in Barcelona, because I would've liked to see where he would've qualified there, probably on the front row. But yes, at the moment they seem as good as anyone in the high speed stuff and a step ahead in the lower speed point and squirt stuff. Martin Brundle mentioned it today, their front end looks very strong from the onboards in the slow speed stuff. I don't think they'll dominate but they do seem to be in a real strong position.
Makes me think of the Ferrari/McLaren dynamic in the late 90's then through the '00s, how their car dynamics swapped around, what they were strong at etc.
Makes me think of the Ferrari/McLaren dynamic in the late 90's then through the '00s, how their car dynamics swapped around, what they were strong at etc.
#5
jeze
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:12
It'd be foolish to discount anyone of them, but I don't see Vettel as the monstrous force as he was in 2010 or last year in terms of raw pace. Webber has the measure on him in terms of qualifying and Silverstone has always been a superb track for both Red Bull and Webber...
The coming tracks also don't particularly remind me of Valencia, and both Germany and Belgium will include massive straights with not that much of Valencia-esque hairpins.
The coming tracks also don't particularly remind me of Valencia, and both Germany and Belgium will include massive straights with not that much of Valencia-esque hairpins.
#6
SirRacer
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:12
+1RB was superb in Valencia, their car loves hard braking zones and accelerating out of slow corners, I am sure they are playing with off-throttle mode. They confirmed today they were very competitive at a high-speed circuit as well, which is a massive improvement from Barcelona where they were clearly behind McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus and even Williams.
I really fear Vettel will walk away with his third title. I wouldn't been able to accept it because Fernando has been driving extremely well, brilliantly so far this year. He is the best driver, no doubts about it. So I fear from a cruise for Red Bull for the secind half of the season.
It's sad that driver performance has such a small effect when there's a dominant car arround... but thats F1!
#7
smoothcrim
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:13
Alonso will fight till the end,hopefully Webber can win it.
#8
Lights
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:14
Hockenheim is all about traction.The coming tracks also don't particularly remind me of Valencia, and both Germany and Belgium will include massive straights with not that much of Valencia-esque hairpins.
#9
jeze
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:15
Hockenheim is all about traction.
It is no Monaco, Montréal or Valencia.
Anyway, Ferrari looked alright at all of those places and will in the hands of Fernando be in contention for the remainder of the season as long as the development is done right.
#10
Boxerevo
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:18
+1.Alonso will fight till the end,hopefully Webber can win it.
#11
puxanando
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:19
Alonso will fight till the end,hopefully Webber can win it.
Alonso will fight till the end.....and I hope he can win it!
#12
flyer121
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:20
+1
It's sad that driver performance has such a small effect when there's a dominant car arround... but thats F1!
So you mean that Alonso brings only a small effect to the results ...;)
I would probably agree if you explain it a bit better !
Edited by flyer121, 08 July 2012 - 15:20.
#13
FerrariAlonso
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:20
Maybe you will consider me a fool, but if I were Fernando, I would go crazy if Red Bull started a dominance again. He races his heart out, there is nothing more a racing driver could do. Regardless the fact I am a Ferrari- and Fernando-fan, I wish Fernando wins the title, because he is the man who deserves it the most considering his brilliant performances.
#14
fatd
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:21
WCC is absolutely theirs to lose, but not so much about WDC. But I can imagine similar scenario to 2010 with Webber, Vettel and Alonso as main contender to WDC. Probably Hamilton too, if McLaren permits him lol.
#15
ArkZ
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:21
Only Alonso and Hamilton together in Ferrari could challenge Redbull in WCC, however Fernando will win WDC.
#16
BigCHrome
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:23
You do know that Alonso is leading only because Vettel had 2 retirements, neither of which were his fault?
#17
ayali
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:23
Yep WCC to Red Bull
WDC a great fight between Alonso and both Red Bulls
going to be an interesting season
WDC a great fight between Alonso and both Red Bulls
going to be an interesting season
#18
F1Champion
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:23
Alot depends on a DNF for Alonso. Right now he has a considerable points advantage, without the Vettel DNF the Red Bull and Ferrari's would be a straight fight.
#19
Lights
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:24
Traction related, I'm really not so sure. I've always thought of Hockenheim as an extreme traction circuit. Valencia requires it too, but it's more about chicanes there. Hockenheim has more slow corners in which on the exit you have to swap to the other side of the track again. If your tyres are of the cliff there it's an absolute nightmare.It is no Monaco, Montréal or Valencia.
Anyway, Ferrari looked alright at all of those places and will in the hands of Fernando be in contention for the remainder of the season as long as the development is done right.
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#20
flyer121
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:24
Nobody deserves it more than anyone else.... if he drives without cracking , he might ve a chance!Maybe you will consider me a fool, but if I were Fernando, I would go crazy if Red Bull started a dominance again. He races his heart out, there is nothing more a racing driver could do. Regardless the fact I am a Ferrari- and Fernando-fan, I wish Fernando wins the title, because he is the man who deserves it the most considering his brilliant performances.
#21
Fastcake
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:25
If so, I hope Webber can win it. He's driving far more competitively this year and I'll just like him to do it
#22
jeze
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:25
Fernando this year is Schumacher in 1997 all over again. And the funny thing is had the reliability been alright, Schumacher would've been in contention somewhat already in 1996. With the smartest driver, a decent car and the RBR drivers taking points off each other Fernando has a great chance of pulling off an upset.
I'd say championship-wise it's 10 % someone outside the top 3. Of the remaining 90 % shares there's 1/3 chance for all of them up there.
I'd say championship-wise it's 10 % someone outside the top 3. Of the remaining 90 % shares there's 1/3 chance for all of them up there.
#23
Lights
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:26
That's exactly why this thread is here? Red Bull has been faster than Ferrari in most races.You do know that Alonso is leading only because Vettel had 2 retirements, neither of which were his fault?
#24
flyer121
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:27
You do know that Alonso is leading only because Vettel had 2 retirements, neither of which were his fault?
May be this post should be a stickied on the index page.
It would spare us some Alonso worship
#25
ArkZ
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:28
Alonso also lost points thanks to strategy he could have won last five races!! ,so not only Vettel have misfortune....
#26
jeze
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:31
Traction related, I'm really not so sure. I've always thought of Hockenheim as an extreme traction circuit. Valencia requires it too, but it's more about chicanes there. Hockenheim has more slow corners in which on the exit you have to swap to the other side of the track again. If your tyres are of the cliff there it's an absolute nightmare.
Hockenheim have some fast jinks that are not too long, those corners will still be enough to separate the meat from the grind and that means none of the big shots out in Q2.
That 1,2 km straight will hurt Red Bull and especially Vettel though. There are two corners at hairpin speed with great deceleration at Hockenheim. At Valencia there are five, in Bahrain there are five as well, and both of those circuits have a few borderline hairpins, whilst Germany just has one of those. In Montréal he was super quick in qualifying and that track also has five of those. Meanwhile, Vettel struggled a bit at Silverstone and Barcelona this season in comparison to his main competitors. Those tracks have none or just one real hairpin. So put it this way, it's likely to be a middle ground there. Even the stadium hairpin is quite fast at Hockenheim (130 km/h).
#27
fatd
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:32
Maybe you will consider me a fool, but if I were Fernando, I would go crazy if Red Bull started a dominance again. He races his heart out, there is nothing more a racing driver could do. Regardless the fact I am a Ferrari- and Fernando-fan, I wish Fernando wins the title, because he is the man who deserves it the most considering his brilliant performances.
Chill out dude, Ferrari is just thereabout in terms of car performance. It's too early to call it a Red Bull dominance but after last year I understand the paranoia. He has a brilliant performance and so far he deserves it, but we still have another half of the season. If he carries his current form then I'm sure he'll have it in the bag. RB boys will take points of each other to his advantage.
#28
Massa_f1
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:34
If McLaren dont get a better car soon. the WDC is between Alonso, Vettel, Webber
#29
Coral
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:47
If McLaren dont get a better car soon. the WDC is between Alonso, Vettel, Webber
As a Lewis Hamilton fan it pains me to say this, but you're right. After today's race I was asking myself which of these three to cheer on for the WDC.
#30
bub
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:50
As a Lewis Hamilton fan it pains me to say this, but you're right. After today's race I was asking myself which of these three to cheer on for the WDC.
Of those 3 I'd go with the guy who hasn't won it yet.
#31
DutchQuicksilver
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:52
I wouldn't worry too much about Vettel walking away with it to be hounest. He wasn't anywhere as quick today as he was in Valencia. Alonso will put up a good fight, so will Webber. I'm only hoping McLarens slip of form won't continue. Would be a shame if Lewis can't keep up with the title fight.RB was superb in Valencia, their car loves hard braking zones and accelerating out of slow corners, I am sure they are playing with off-throttle mode. They confirmed today they were very competitive at a high-speed circuit as well, which is a massive improvement from Barcelona where they were clearly behind McLaren, Ferrari, Lotus and even Williams.
I really fear Vettel will walk away with his third title. I wouldn't been able to accept it because Fernando has been driving extremely well, brilliantly so far this year. He is the best driver, no doubts about it. So I fear from a cruise for Red Bull for the secind half of the season.
#32
Lights
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:54
Besides the hairpin Hockenheim isn't too slow indeed but it's still not really about aero, is it? Turn 1 is, and Turn 12, maybe Turn 17, but that's it pretty much. I agree on the braking though, that's a lot different to Valencia/Canada. But in terms of mechanical(traction) vs. aerodynamical grip, I'd easily put Hockenheim/Canada/Valencia under the first bracket, and Silverstone/Spa under the latter.Hockenheim have some fast jinks that are not too long, those corners will still be enough to separate the meat from the grind and that means none of the big shots out in Q2.
That 1,2 km straight will hurt Red Bull and especially Vettel though. There are two corners at hairpin speed with great deceleration at Hockenheim. At Valencia there are five, in Bahrain there are five as well, and both of those circuits have a few borderline hairpins, whilst Germany just has one of those. In Montréal he was super quick in qualifying and that track also has five of those. Meanwhile, Vettel struggled a bit at Silverstone and Barcelona this season in comparison to his main competitors. Those tracks have none or just one real hairpin. So put it this way, it's likely to be a middle ground there. Even the stadium hairpin is quite fast at Hockenheim (130 km/h).
Edited by Lights, 08 July 2012 - 15:55.
#33
seahawk
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:56
I think the RBR will be the car to beat for the rest of the season. The opponents need consistency because I think the 2 RBR will take away points from each other. The season could be 2010 all over again.
#34
HuddersfieldTerrier1986
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:02
WCC will go to RBR as they have 2 drivers consistently delivering, whereas McLaren and Ferrari don't. Unsure about who'll win the WDC though.
#35
Starlight
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:03
More than half the paddock expected a redbull dominance in Silverstone, especially after Valencia, but it wasn't quite the case. They still are the team to beat but Ferrari is not so far away. They need to get their updates working for Germany to ensure that they keep tabs with the bulls. Hopefully with that and future updates, we will see the wdc go down to the wire.
#36
garoidb
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:07
Maybe you will consider me a fool, but if I were Fernando, I would go crazy if Red Bull started a dominance again. He races his heart out, there is nothing more a racing driver could do.
I think this is what happened Hamilton last year. I don't think Fernando will crumble, though as he seems to have the proper perspective. He already has two WDCs so his legacy is secure and there is nothing to panic about.
#37
SirRacer
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:22
No they didn't, they expected Ferrari to be strong because high speed corners suited the F2012 and Ferrari was indeed strong.More than half the paddock expected a redbull dominance in Silverstone, especially after Valencia, but it wasn't quite the case. They still are the team to beat but Ferrari is not so far away. They need to get their updates working for Germany to ensure that they keep tabs with the bulls. Hopefully with that and future updates, we will see the wdc go down to the wire.
They expect RedBull to dominate Hockenheim and I'm afraid they will
#38
NotSoSilentBob
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:25
I expect Vettel will win it, just edging Alonso into second, with Webbo another 15 or so points down back in third.
The Red Bull drivers just take too many points off each other and Vettel's more consistent than Webber is. There's no way Red Bull will back Webber unless Vettel starts to fall out of it mathematically, which wont happen.
WCC an easy one to Red Bull (and why Ferrari wants Webber in their team), WDC close but to Vettel.
The Red Bull drivers just take too many points off each other and Vettel's more consistent than Webber is. There's no way Red Bull will back Webber unless Vettel starts to fall out of it mathematically, which wont happen.
WCC an easy one to Red Bull (and why Ferrari wants Webber in their team), WDC close but to Vettel.
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#40
bauss
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:05
Alonso can win it, if Webber keeps up his form, he can win it.
He will be slower than SV on low speed circuits, but as long as he keeps up his advantage on the higher speed stuff like today... with a bit of luck he can win it.
LH is very much just a dark dark horse now.
WCC should easily be Red Bulls. I will be extremely extremely surprised if that is not the case.
He will be slower than SV on low speed circuits, but as long as he keeps up his advantage on the higher speed stuff like today... with a bit of luck he can win it.
LH is very much just a dark dark horse now.
WCC should easily be Red Bulls. I will be extremely extremely surprised if that is not the case.
Edited by bauss, 08 July 2012 - 18:06.
#41
andresitoiniesta
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:54
I think Vettel will win WDC and Redbull WCC.
You are not going to make a lot of money if you bet, do you?
#42
andresitoiniesta
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:57
You do know that Alonso is leading only because Vettel had 2 retirements, neither of which were his fault?
Neither Alonso´s
#43
joshb
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:59
Alonso can win it, if Webber keeps up his form, he can win it.
He will be slower than SV on low speed circuits, but as long as he keeps up his advantage on the higher speed stuff like today... with a bit of luck he can win it.
LH is very much just a dark dark horse now.
WCC should easily be Red Bulls. I will be extremely extremely surprised if that is not the case.
Its too early to suggest someone is going to become dominant. Mclaren went from half a second on pole to nowhere in the space of 4 races
Right now, I'd say Alonso, Vettel, Webber, Hamilton are the main 4 right now and then maybe Kimi, Grosjean and Rosberg as slight 'outsiders'
#44
Seanspeed
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:05
Its possible. If they start getting 1-2's, then yea, the WDC is probably theirs for the taking. They're already huge favorites for the WCC. The car has been consistently competitive, is getting stronger, and both drivers are on-form, which is a recipe for success.
I hope not, though!
I hope not, though!
#45
puxanando
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:28
I think Alonso will be there to speak a word for title, also if the RBR car is faster/better!
#46
William Hunt
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:46
Its too early to suggest someone is going to become dominant. Mclaren went from half a second on pole to nowhere in the space of 4 races
I thought that Mercedes would become dominant after Rosberg's dominant pole & win early in the season but they never maintained or confirmed their competitiveness. This year is too unpredictable to be sure of anything and that's good for the fans.
#47
RockyRaccoon68
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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:49
The Lotus' showed dominant pace today, it's still changing from race to race. The only consistent factor so far this season has been Alonso + the two Red Bulls near the front at the chequered flag.
#48
HoldenRT
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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:24
Not that I wouldn't love Webber to win the WDC.. but what about the guy winning the WDC who..
..deserves it? I don't mean deserves it so far (Alonso) but after the whole season has been completed.
It does look between Alonso and Webber/Vettel though. McLaren haven't been strong like they were at the start of the season, for quite a while.
..deserves it? I don't mean deserves it so far (Alonso) but after the whole season has been completed.
It does look between Alonso and Webber/Vettel though. McLaren haven't been strong like they were at the start of the season, for quite a while.
#49
apoka
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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:36
I wouldn't rule out Hamilton. He is not far away and I don't think McLaren will stay on a low for the entire season. It's a real 4-way-fight between Alonso, Webber, Vettel and Hamilton with Alonso having an edge at the moment.Not that I wouldn't love Webber to win the WDC.. but what about the guy winning the WDC who..
..deserves it? I don't mean deserves it so far (Alonso) but after the whole season has been completed.
It does look between Alonso and Webber/Vettel though. McLaren haven't been strong like they were at the start of the season, for quite a while.
#50
Callahan
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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:00
McLaren are gone in my opinion. They were no where at Silverstone and will need technical improvements on a massive scale to allow Ham and Jenson to threaten the Bulls and Fred. It ain't over till it's over but......
