A double poll. Second question because many seem to think that Lotus is very quick, despaite of that they don't have front rows or wins.
The quickest F1 car this season?
Started by
Mauseri
, Jul 14 2012 00:14
52 replies to this topic
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#2
beute
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 00:31
People will say Lotus, but it is red bull that won the most grand prix and without vettels car failure in valencia they would've twice as much victories as the next best team.
So it's red bull.
But it changes from race to race, if it wasnt for poor qualifying lotus could have actually been the team to beat, since they have been the most consistent, both in races and qualifying(consistently "bad" in qualifying ofc)
mercedes and williams had a freak win, we saw in valencia what simple setup/wing changes can cause, vettel went from barely qualifying for Q3 to getting pole with 4 tenths of a second advantage.
So it's red bull.
But it changes from race to race, if it wasnt for poor qualifying lotus could have actually been the team to beat, since they have been the most consistent, both in races and qualifying(consistently "bad" in qualifying ofc)
mercedes and williams had a freak win, we saw in valencia what simple setup/wing changes can cause, vettel went from barely qualifying for Q3 to getting pole with 4 tenths of a second advantage.
Edited by beute, 14 July 2012 - 00:33.
#3
BigCHrome
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 00:34
Red Bull have been consistently good.
Ferrari were crap at the beginning but got lucky and didn't lose as much points as they should've. Now they are about as fast as RB.
McLaren have good qualifying pace but their tire wear is beyond pathetic. The car never had good race pace.
Lotus are lacking a little bit in qualifying but their car is amazing in the race, probably on the same level as RB.
Mercedes are a bit like McLaren but lacking in downforce and with better traction.
Williams seems to have good downforce and tire wear but they've been inconsistent. Doesn't help that Maldonado crashes all the time.
Sauber are slightly worse than the top 5 but they are only a few tenths away.
Ferrari were crap at the beginning but got lucky and didn't lose as much points as they should've. Now they are about as fast as RB.
McLaren have good qualifying pace but their tire wear is beyond pathetic. The car never had good race pace.
Lotus are lacking a little bit in qualifying but their car is amazing in the race, probably on the same level as RB.
Mercedes are a bit like McLaren but lacking in downforce and with better traction.
Williams seems to have good downforce and tire wear but they've been inconsistent. Doesn't help that Maldonado crashes all the time.
Sauber are slightly worse than the top 5 but they are only a few tenths away.
#4
Kingshark
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:00
Nailed it in the head.Red Bull have been consistently good.
Ferrari were crap at the beginning but got lucky and didn't lose as much points as they should've. Now they are about as fast as RB.
McLaren have good qualifying pace but their tire wear is beyond pathetic. The car never had good race pace.
Lotus are lacking a little bit in qualifying but their car is amazing in the race, probably on the same level as RB.
Mercedes are a bit like McLaren but lacking in downforce and with better traction.
Williams seems to have good downforce and tire wear but they've been inconsistent. Doesn't help that Maldonado crashes all the time.
Sauber are slightly worse than the top 5 but they are only a few tenths away.
#5
Spa One
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 04:54
I don't think it's a question that can be answered with a poll like this because the cars are constantly changing, along with the pecking order.
I believe McLaren had the faster car at the beginning of the season, but now I think the Ferrari and Red Bulls are faster.
I think the Lotus have been consistently the 'best of the rest', with the exception of Monaco.
Also, I get the feeling Williams has a car which is much, much better than the results suggest. I wonder what someone like Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel could do in it.
#6
SpaMaster
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 05:54
McLaren (except for the last 2 races).
The quickest car is one which is the quickest over the whole GP, not just race, some stints, fastest laps, etc. So, Lotus cannot be the quickest car when it cannot qualify more the P6 or P7 most of the time.
The quickest car is one which is the quickest over the whole GP, not just race, some stints, fastest laps, etc. So, Lotus cannot be the quickest car when it cannot qualify more the P6 or P7 most of the time.
#7
ViMaMo
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 06:03
Mclaren was the team with the potential. Superb in winter testing, win in season opener, couple of good results afterwards.
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#8
KavB
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:23
McLaren until a couple races ago. Now overall I'd have to say Red Bull as they have been here or there. Ferrari are strong now but they were poor for the first few races.
#9
BullHead
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:28
Yeah, I reckon it was McLaren, but now it's Red Bull quickest.
Edit: But 'most potential'? That could still be Lotus.
Edit: But 'most potential'? That could still be Lotus.
Edited by BullHead, 14 July 2012 - 14:32.
#10
zk12
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:34
in the first races (especially with Jenson) they looked also in the race as the fastest team.McLaren have good qualifying pace but their tire wear is beyond pathetic. The car never had good race pace.
in the last races (especially with Lewis) they looked also very competitive (exception: silverstone)
#11
H2H
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:38
I agree with Scarbs on that one, McLaren has been overall the fastest car of the season but now Red Bull seems to be a bit ahead of the pack. We will see how things go in the next races, who knows, maybe McLaren has a stunner in Germany, changing the tide again.
#12
Disgrace
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:41
McLaren did but as they so often do, snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Now they're behind in points and development.
#13
BigCHrome
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:41
in the first races (especially with Jenson) they looked also in the race as the fastest team.
in the last races (especially with Lewis) they looked also very competitive (exception: silverstone)
In the first few races, before the splitter clarification, McLaren did look fast in the race as well. However after China they've almost always went backwards in the race compared to qualifying. Even in Canada they probably wouldn't have won if Ferrari didn't screw up the strategy.
#14
Richard T
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:54
Why isn't there an option for Toro Rosso?
#15
Jimisgod
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:11
Red Bull if you count all the races this season. Ferrari became much faster, McLaren became slower, Lotus is consistent but not at Red Bull's level, Mercedes is absolutely-freaking-everywhere, Sauber has been decent but simply an upper midfield team. Force India is not with those five, unless you count Mercedes on its off days.
So lets make a guess for the next race...
1. Red Bull = Ferrari (Massa looked wonderful in the UK, so the car must be lightning)
2. Lotus
3. McLaren = Sauber = Mercedes
4. Force India
5. Toro Rosso
6. The rest, who cares
So lets make a guess for the next race...
1. Red Bull = Ferrari (Massa looked wonderful in the UK, so the car must be lightning)
2. Lotus
3. McLaren = Sauber = Mercedes
4. Force India
5. Toro Rosso
6. The rest, who cares
#16
zk12
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:18
good analysisI agree with Scarbs on that one, McLaren has been overall the fastest car of the season but now Red Bull seems to be a bit ahead of the pack. We will see how things go in the next races, who knows, maybe McLaren has a stunner in Germany, changing the tide again.
#17
Alarcon
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:31
On the first 5 races McLaren was the fastest car (excepting Bahrein), then RB started to be really fast (since Monaco) and Ferrari has been faster race after race.
We have also Lotus, depending the track were fast and also Mercedes (don´t forget they achieved 2 pole positions so far).
Then I´ll say they are (not in order) McLaren, Rb, Lotus, Ferrari, Mercedes they are fast... it´s the most equal and unpredictible season since long time ago.
We have also Lotus, depending the track were fast and also Mercedes (don´t forget they achieved 2 pole positions so far).
Then I´ll say they are (not in order) McLaren, Rb, Lotus, Ferrari, Mercedes they are fast... it´s the most equal and unpredictible season since long time ago.
#18
Alarcon
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:40
In the first few races, before the splitter clarification, McLaren did look fast in the race as well. However after China they've almost always went backwards in the race compared to qualifying. Even in Canada they probably wouldn't have won if Ferrari didn't screw up the strategy.
McLaren
In Australia they were the fastest. No doubt.
In Malaysia too (even Button qualified 2nd again), however the rain changed all.
In China was the second fastest after the Mercedes (unbeateable)
In Bahrein Lotus was the fastest car, then the RB and both faster than McLaren
In Spain they were the fastest (Lewis achieved a pole of 6 tenths, however was illegal and conditioned his race).
In Monaco, Mercedes, RB and Ferrari were faster than McLaren.
In Canada McLaren was the faster car imo with Ferrari and RB very close. At least the 3 teams were very strong.
In Valencia RB, Ferrari and Lotus were faster than McLaren.
In Silverstone RB and Ferrari were faster than McLaren.
Then we have 9 races so far and we find McLaren the fastest car on 4 races, overall we can say they have been the fastest car but team mistakes ruined Lewis performance.
Right now RB and Ferrari imo are slightly faster than McLaren, but that can change in the next race. In fact, we have seen (looking the stats), the most equal and difficult qualy. ever in F1 history, and that´s a clear prove about how difficult is to say "this car is the winner"
Edited by Alarcon, 14 July 2012 - 17:42.
#19
Clatter
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:28
A double poll. Second question because many seem to think that Lotus is very quick, despaite of that they don't have front rows or wins.
I think people regard Lotus as being the most consistent, not the quickest. They might well have won a race by now if not for poor strategies, but have probably missed the boat now.
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#20
Anderis
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:29
I insist McLaren wasn't the quickest car in Spain in race trim. Hamilton finished 80 seconds behind Maldonado. 80 seconds is not the difference that can be just made from starting from the back if you have the fastest car. In Pirelli-DRS era you could see plenty of time that driver who started from the back finished about 10-20 seconds behind his team-mate. They were often able to finish in top6 even if the car wasn't the quickest that day.In Spain they were the fastest (Lewis achieved a pole of 6 tenths, however was illegal and conditioned his race).
I'm pretty sure Lewis wouldn't be able to keep all of the group including Alonso, Maldonado and Lotuses the whole race behind him.
#21
BigCHrome
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:41
McLaren
In Malaysia too (even Button qualified 2nd again), however the rain changed all.
But they weren't the fastest in the conditions of the race.
#22
velgajski1
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:24
RBR followed closely by Ferrari/Lotus/McLaren/Williams.
Edited by velgajski1, 14 July 2012 - 19:24.
#23
Sakae
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 20:20
An option "None" is as fast as Lotus is missing. Is that an oversight, or you have simply eliminated a such scenario as waste of cyber digitals?A double poll. Second question because many seem to think that Lotus is very quick, despaite of that they don't have front rows or wins.
#24
fisssssi
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 22:08
An option "None" is as fast as Lotus is missing. Is that an oversight, or you have simply eliminated a such scenario as waste of cyber digitals?
It's a multiple-select poll, you don't have to select any if you don't want to.
My vote went to Red Bull as fastest, hands down.
#25
Mauseri
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 23:12
Well I think RedBull:s 1st team has built clearly quicker car. Maybe in the other poll it could be, but so should Force India also then, but in my opinion, Williams and Sauber have clearly shown something extra in comparison.Why isn't there an option for Toro Rosso?
As many have noted it's really difficult to rate the teams this year. Lotus seems to be consistently quick, but several other teams have been quicker on occasion, so maybe they (Lotus) are just operating consistently closer to their potential? Just my opinion.
Edited by Mauseri, 14 July 2012 - 23:13.
#26
Wander
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 23:50
If I was a driver in F1, I would most like to be driving the Red Bull, but the Lotus just might be the second choice (or the new Ferrari). Ferrari have been getting better as the season goes on while Mclaren has gone the other way, starting from the top. To me it would seem that Mclaren is now equal with Mercedes, behind RBR, Ferrari and Lotus. When you bring Williams and Sauber to the mix, it's even more complicated though, cause they have been very inconsistent. Some races they have been right there with the top cars, in others just nowhere.
#27
launcher
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Posted 14 July 2012 - 23:50
McLaren (except for the last 2 races).
The quickest car is one which is the quickest over the whole GP, not just race, some stints, fastest laps, etc. So, Lotus cannot be the quickest car when it cannot qualify more the P6 or P7 most of the time.
The Lotus has been qualifying in the top 5 most of the time, and you have to consider the drivers when judging the pace and whether they are under performing. If the speed benchmark for that car is a rookie, when how fast could that car go with a quality experienced driver?
There is no way Mclaren have been the fastest or even second this year, because their race pace has sucked in half the races this season. Being fast in qualifying is pointless without race pace, its much better the other way around.
#28
Wander
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 00:02
The Lotus has been qualifying in the top 5 most of the time, and you have to consider the drivers when judging the pace and whether they are under performing. If the speed benchmark for that car is a rookie, when how fast could that car go with a quality experienced driver?
What do you mean? They do have a quality experienced driver.
And rookies have been fast before. 2007 anyone? 96?
#29
paulogman
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 00:05
I think that the cars are very equal at the moment. what are the gaps in getting into q3 now? less than half a second usually? a second at the very most. and rarely does a team take a dominant 1-2 with both of their cars off in the distance. even when vettel was leading that race, once grosjean cleared the moving chicane that hamilton was because his car was not doing well on its tyres, grosjean was able to close the gap.
it is down to which team at which circuit does the best job managing the tyres.
a real lottery this season keeping the title up for grabs.
it is down to which team at which circuit does the best job managing the tyres.
a real lottery this season keeping the title up for grabs.
#30
launcher
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 00:48
What do you mean? They do have a quality experienced driver.
And rookies have been fast before. 2007 anyone? 96?
But the rookie is the speed benchmark for the Lotus not Kimi. Do you really think a rookie is exploiting the full potential of that car?
Edited by launcher, 15 July 2012 - 00:48.
#31
Wander
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 00:56
But the rookie is the speed benchmark for the Lotus not Kimi. Do you really think a rookie is exploiting the full potential of that car?
As I said, many rookies have done it before. Why do you think that Romain isn't?
#32
launcher
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:03
As I said, many rookies have done it before. Why do you think that Romain isn't?
Actually only 1 rookie has, which was Hamilton. Romain is not a Hamilton.
#33
Alarcon
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:14
But they weren't the fastest in the conditions of the race.
Well you are right, however we must make then a different class. Qualy and race, as at Spain they were the fastest car on qualy but not on the race. That´s what is happening this season, it´s so close and so different...
#34
lambylamby
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:04
Why isn't there an option for Marussia?
#35
Sakae
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:03
None of the cars this year have reached its full potential due to limitations on the wheels, thus we do not know which car is fastest in the straight line speed. Next race could be first one which might reveal levels not seen before, if I understood what Hembery was on, when he was talking about new rubber. My guess is, that McLaren might be fastest in straight line speed, whereas Renault (Lotus) could win the battle and most nimble car to have, with Ferrari glued on their exhaust pipe. RBR was consistently very good, did not suffer from yo-yo performance, and perhaps that's what makes difference when a good driver has his hands on it.
Edited by Sakae, 15 July 2012 - 06:04.
#36
SpaMaster
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:35
You mean P5 as top 5, still not good enough. Look at where the winners have started from most of the times. You will see lot of pole positions, front rows and top 3, not much top 5!The Lotus has been qualifying in the top 5 most of the time,
No, we don't have to. When every other team's cars are judged normally, there is no need to say Lotus car must be judged above its drivers. Button has been among the worst underperformers this season, and he won a race with McLaren. In the initial races, Hamilton started from pole and went backwards in both races (one of the races his teammate won)! So yeah, if at all this special driver based evaluation should be used for McLaren, and McLaren was very much the car to be in the first part of the season and they just won a race three races back!and you have to consider the drivers when judging the pace and whether they are under performing. If the speed benchmark for that car is a rookie, when how fast could that car go with a quality experienced driver?
There is no way Mclaren have been the fastest or even second this year, because their race pace has sucked in half the races this season. Being fast in qualifying is pointless without race pace, its much better the other way around.
Edited by SpaMaster, 15 July 2012 - 06:36.
#37
SpaMaster
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:08
Yeah The Hamilton, the one and only God Incarnation!Actually only 1 rookie has, which was Hamilton. Romain is not a Hamilton.
Apart from the '96 example, there are many rookies even recently who have shown the full potential of the car. 2001 was a good one - Raikkonen, Montoya and Alonso. 2007 - Kovalainen. 2008 - Vettel..
#38
Nigol
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:03
Red Bull had some issues in qualifying in the first few races (or maybe the drivers didn't deliver?), but since Melbourne their car were among the fastest, if not the fastest in the race.
And out of the last 6 races, Red Bull would have won 5 (it was only 4 because Vettel retired in Valencia). So, yeah. Pretty clear to me.
And out of the last 6 races, Red Bull would have won 5 (it was only 4 because Vettel retired in Valencia). So, yeah. Pretty clear to me.
#39
motorhead
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 08:38
What´s the point to this thread if the starter put a poll based on his opinion about Lotus being the fastest car...ridiculous. Ferrari and RedBull are the cars to beat....
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#40
Wander
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:05
Yeah The Hamilton, the one and only God Incarnation!
Apart from the '96 example, there are many rookies even recently who have shown the full potential of the car. 2001 was a good one - Raikkonen, Montoya and Alonso. 2007 - Kovalainen. 2008 - Vettel..
Exactly. Also, going further back, we have M Schumacher, Ayrton Senna, Jackie Stewart, Emerson Fittipaldi, Clay Regazzoni and many others. All were extremely impressive on their debut seasons. Stewart, for example, gave Graham Hill, who was at his best, a run for his money right away.
#41
flyer121
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:17
At the start f the season , it was mclaren ..
... And now its Ferrari ... Redbull were always constantly second or even third except for valencia.
Lotus is not the fastest as many seem to belive .. They are fastest only during a small window when tyres are heated up and fuel is low... Not enuff for wins!
... And now its Ferrari ... Redbull were always constantly second or even third except for valencia.
Lotus is not the fastest as many seem to belive .. They are fastest only during a small window when tyres are heated up and fuel is low... Not enuff for wins!
#42
as65p
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:32
The quickest car is always the one Alonso performs well with, because obviously there can't be any other reason he does. 
#43
revlec
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:37
The quickest car is always the one Alonso performs well with, because obviously there can't be any other reason he does.
don't be ridiculous.. he is driving the 4th best car this season..
#44
as65p
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:39
don't be ridiculous.. he is driving the 4th best car this season..
Why did it take you so long to see the light? 
#46
Wander
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:48
What? Judging by the Ferrari overall performance in Silverstone the car is now very fast.
#47
Richard T
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 09:49
Well I think RedBull:s 1st team has built clearly quicker car. Maybe in the other poll it could be, but so should Force India also then, but in my opinion, Williams and Sauber have clearly shown something extra in comparison.
As many have noted it's really difficult to rate the teams this year. Lotus seems to be consistently quick, but several other teams have been quicker on occasion, so maybe they (Lotus) are just operating consistently closer to their potential? Just my opinion.
Don't worry mate, just trolling ;)
#48
MSchumi
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 10:25
McLaren obviously. People voting for Red Bull are trying to excuse Button's and/or Hamilton's underperfomance.
#49
andresitoiniesta
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 14:16
I would say (after Silverstone)
1-RED BULL
2- LOTUS
3- FERRARI
4-McLAREN
5- MERCEDES
6- SAUBER
7-WILLIAMS
8- FORCE INDIA
9- TORO ROSSO
10- CATERHAM
11- MARUSSIA
12- HRT
1-RED BULL
2- LOTUS
3- FERRARI
4-McLAREN
5- MERCEDES
6- SAUBER
7-WILLIAMS
8- FORCE INDIA
9- TORO ROSSO
10- CATERHAM
11- MARUSSIA
12- HRT
#50
joshb
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Posted 15 July 2012 - 14:48
The quickest car is always the one Alonso performs well with, because obviously there can't be any other reason he does.
I've always had to put up with that one for Vettel. It swings and roundabouts.
Over the season so far, I'd say its close between Mclaren/RB/Lotus with Merc/Ferrari not too far behind. Then you have Williams/Sauber and FI then STR, Caterham, Marussia, HRT
But right now there's not much between RB, Ferrari and Lotus, as was reflected by the top 6 at Silverstone coming from those teams and all covered by about 15s (despite Grosjean's bad first lap) Mclaren have slipped away. Who would have thought they'd be the 4th best car after those early races.
Merc are up and down, but generally they're around Mclaren right now. Rosberg has done well generally but Schumi has had terrible luck.
Williams- good car, poor drivers. Take Maldonados (probably one-off) win out of it and they have bugger all in a car which is Q3 material.
Force India is in a small gap from Sauber to Toro Rosso but 2 good drivers have been chipping away and they lie almost tied with Williams. Perez has had 2 big scores for Sauber which keeps them ahead of those 2.
STR/Caterham/Marussia/HRT don't look like scoring unless there's a bit of attrition (for STR) or a lot of attrition (for the other 3)
