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Tom Jones - no longer a mystery! (merged)

Started by Kuwashima , Mar 12 2001 13:54

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63 replies to this topic

#1 Kuwashima

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Posted 12 March 2001 - 13:54

Just for anyone who's interested

There was a lot of debate on a thread about American drivers (which I can't find) quite a while ago about exactly who 1967 Canadian GP entrant Tom Jones is. Is he a Canadian; how is he related to John Jones; did he really exist?

Anyway, I think we can answer some of these questions now, and in correspondance with 8w god Mattijs, he suggested I post here to let you all know...

FYI, we have updated our page on Jones at our site to include some details about his F1 attempt given to us by the man who has restored the car used by Jones in 67 Canadian GP (and Jo Bonnier in 1966 F2), Paul Busby.
You can find our page on Jones here.

For those who don't like gratuitous plugs, the crucial bit is this:

There has been some debate about exactly who 'Tom Jones' is. Some think he is in fact a Canadian from Thunder Bay, is related to ex-F3000 racer John Jones, and appears in the Canadian Motorsports Hall of Fame. We believe this is incorrect, and that there are in fact two car racing Tom Joneses.

The F1 Jones is still living in Cleveland today, and is by all accounts something of a recluse; the other hails from Thunder Bay, was Canada's first FIA-graded rally driver, a dominating international ice-racer in his time, and is the father of John.

I hope this is of some interest to some people. TJ appears to be American - and very hard to track down! Feel free to help prove us right/wrong!

Cheers!

#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 March 2001 - 14:07

Hard to track down? It's Not Unusual....

#3 Darren Galpin

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Posted 12 March 2001 - 14:31

Aaaarggghhhhh! Bad puns! Why why why???

#4 Allen Brown

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Posted 12 March 2001 - 17:50

The Tom Jones who raced in F5000 and Can-Am was from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm pretty sure this is the same chap who appeared in SCCA FA as early as 1966 or 1967, using an ex-F2 Cooper - probably a T82.

He later turned up with a March F5000 car and adopted a similar position near the back of the grid.

Allen

#5 David J Jones

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Posted 12 March 2001 - 18:53

No No No

Dont you mean 'Why why why..............'

#6 Kuwashima

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Posted 14 March 2001 - 13:18

Allen, do you have any details at all about F5000, Can-Am or SCCA FA races in which this Jones appeared?

Cheers.

#7 Allen Brown

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Posted 20 March 2001 - 23:57

Jamie

I can't find any late F5000 results for this guy and I'm beginning to wonder if it's the same chap. The first I can find of him in my results is in Can-Am in 1977: 30th at R4 Road America (24 Jul); 26th at R5 Mid-Ohio (7 Aug). Then he shows up in SCCA FA (i.e. club racing F5000) in 1978 and then back to Can-Am in 1979: DNS at R7 Brainerd and DNS at R8 Trois-Rivieres. He had another DNS at R8 Road Atlanta (31 Aug) in 1980. All these results in a 'March 741' - probably a March 73A in fact.

And then he vanishes again. So maybe the 1967 chap was a different person? At the 1967 ARRC, Jones was on FA 'pole' in his Cooper - but with only four FA entries that doesn't mean much.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you learn anything more about him.

Allen

#8 Don Capps

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Posted 21 March 2001 - 01:30

Our Man Jones did enter the 1967 St. Jovite GP on 17 September 1967. He is listed as being at the wheel of a Cooper 83. He qualified in the middle of row five (3 x 2 x 3 grid) with a time of 1min 57.3sec. He apparently was a DNS since he is not listed in the results nor is he even mentioned in the few reports of the race.

BTW, Peter Broeker was fourth in the Stebro Mk. 4.....

#9 Corktree

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Posted 15 October 2001 - 23:24

I saw the name Tom Jones pop up in the Al Pease thread and thought I could add that the pride of Rocky River, Ohio entered not only the F/SCCA St. Jovite GP but also finished 4th of 4 entries in the 1967 ARRC at Daytona. He did sit on the pole for the F/A cars.

#10 Roger Clark

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Posted 16 October 2001 - 05:45

Welcome to the forum Corktree. I'm sure your knowledge will cap many debates. Any chance of a posting on the Introductions thread....

#11 fines

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Posted 16 October 2001 - 18:21

Hmmm...

#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 October 2001 - 20:36

Originally posted by fines
Hmmm...

Ditto ...

#13 Don Capps

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Posted 17 October 2001 - 02:05

Ditto the ditto and double hmmm

#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 October 2001 - 12:15

"Curiouser and curiouser" said Alice ... :confused:

#15 Kuwashima

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Posted 17 October 2001 - 14:37

Ahh ye of little faith...

#16 VDP

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Posted 17 October 2001 - 14:56

There was also a Jones entered in 1968 for the british GP
with a cooper maserati ? source M Hubin ?

Robert

#17 Kuwashima

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 12:23

For those of you who have never heard of the infamous Tom Jones, he entered the Canadian Grand Prix at Mosport in 1967, and failed to qualify ... by 29 seconds. And apparently that was about all ANYBODY knew about him - no birthdate, no nationality, nothing!! The "Grand Prix Who's Who" has him as Canadian, and many people think he is from Thunder Bay, Ontario, and related to F3000 racer John Jones.

This is the man about whom Our Host, Sir Don Capps said:

"Tom Jones" is one of North American racing's most celebrated mysteries.

Australia's greatest motoring journalist Barry Lake said:

I have never had a Tom Jones on my grand prix driver list. Tell me more.

And the Honourable Felix Muelas said on the subject of whether Jones was still alive:

I will think that not having evidence that he was ever alive (he might have been a product of our imagination) we are on the safe side taking for granted he is not alive today either.

Well, Jones IS alive, he's NOT Canadian, nor from Thunder Bay, and his birthdate is April 26, 1943. How do we know? Because, after a year of research and much effort, F1 Rejects has finally tracked him down! Our roving reporter Stephen Slater has spoken to the man himself, and gotten all the details of Jones' career, found out exactly what happened at that fateful Canadian Grand Prix and much more!!

And so we have just posted on our site a career summary (not too long :lol:

), a full 1,700 word biography, a picture index with 8 pictures of him (although none from Mosport

) and an exclusive interview

!!

Here's the link for the Biography
Here's the link for the Interview

Some interesting things that come from this:

• Jones is NOT from Thunder Bay, Ontario. That is a totally different Tom Jones!
• Our thanks to Allen Brown, whose reseach into Can-Am and F5000 was invaluable.
• The picture supposedly of Jones at the back of the latest edition of the "Grand Prix Who's Who" is NOT Tom.
• Frank J Dochnal is our next target!!!

If anyone can add in any way, however small, to the Jones story, please let us know!! It's a great story, so happy reading!!

Oh, and anyone making Welsh crooner references such as "it's not unusual" etc will be in big trouble!!! :lol:

#18 rtcoman

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 12:50

Congratulations for tracking this one down! :up:

#19 fines

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 13:08

superb job!! :up:

#20 Barry Lake

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 13:44

What a great story!

Congratulations to Australia's Greatest F1 Rejects Researchers!!!!

#21 Vitesse2

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 13:58

Great stuff guys! One little bit of pedantry though - Bonnier's team was called Ecurie Anglo-Suisse, not Ecurie Ecosse Suisse!!! :lol:

#22 David McKinney

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 14:06

Well done chaps! :up:

And the best of luck with Mr Dochnal

#23 Don Capps

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 15:59

I saw the name Tom Jones pop up in the Al Pease thread and thought I could add that the pride of Rocky River, Ohio entered not only the F/SCCA St. Jovite GP but also finished 4th of 4 entries in the 1967 ARRC at Daytona. He did sit on the pole for the F/A cars.

We all had Tom surrounded, but no one closed the deal....

#24 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 18:11

Phew! I can finally enjoy this day! I hate keeping great secrets like this! About time he got his act together wasn't it boys! :up:

#25 dmj

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 18:17

...and Alfa Romeo is, of course Giulietta, not Julietta...

Congratulations, great article!

#26 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 19:18

Regarding your mail Jamie,
It's fantastic! My only wish is a picture of Tom now...
Is the Who's Who Picture of the (one of the) other Tom Joneses?
But this is truly great & well worth the wait

So...

That's Al Pease done.
That's Tom Jones done.

Now Dochnal & Ottorino Volontero to go!!

Also, re. Des Titterington. I can't find any images of him or his cars on the net!

If I had a scanner I would have a few more up my sleeve but never mind....

#27 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 23:03

Kuwashima

Great work on Tom Jones. Jones definitely didn't compete in Pro F5000 in 1975 or 1976 so his competition history seems to be in three distinct periods:

1967: ex-F2 Cooper T82
1973-74: F5000 McLaren M22
1977-80: F5000/Can-Am March 74A

I'd like to find out more about these two F5000 cars. The McLaren M22 is now owned by Harry Mathews but its history is unclear. Could Jones tell you who he bought the car from and who he sold it to?

This last car is also very interesting as it was usually entered as a March 74A but your biography mentions it as the ex-Cannon car. Cannon raced an increasingly modified F5000 March 73A/751 from 1973 to 1976 and then appears again in Australia in 1978. However, in May of 1976, Cannon advertised a "brand-new" "replica" of his car. Could this be what Jones bought?

And then the comment that I found most interesting of all. Jones is planning to go into historic racing with his F5000 March! So he still has it? After all these years?

Can you help me with any of this?

Allen

#28 Pikachu Racing

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Posted 21 December 2001 - 23:17

Whoo! Finally track the guy down. Very interesting to say the least.

#29 Felix Muelas

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Posted 22 December 2001 - 00:24

Originally posted by Kuwashima
...And the Honourable Felix Muelas said on the subject ...

Few times in my life I remember having felt so embarrassed reading my own words. Of course it was intended to be a joke, but it wasn´t funny...almost qualifing myself for the "most-stupid-comment-of-the-year" award. :blush:

I hereby apologize publicly to Mr Jones.

Excellent job, Jamie. :clap:

The year is yours...

Felix

#30 Kuwashima

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Posted 22 December 2001 - 07:09

Of course it was intended to be a joke, but it wasn´t funny...almost qualifing myself for the "most-stupid-comment-of-the-year" award

Not at all, Felix, I thought it was VERY funny... "he might have been a product of our imagination" :lol:

That's why I remembered it - in order to post it if we ever did discover Tom...

Allen, I will certainly pass on your comments and queries to Tom J, and we'll see what he says. Might not be 'till after Christmas, though. Hopefully, we can get everything sorted out and all will be clear!

Richie, our guess is that the Who's Who pic is of the Canadian Tom Jones. But who knows?? Re Desso... perhaps you might like to do another 'cheeky' thread at TNF?? Can't hurt

But beware of divulging the exact future uses for the material :lol:

Thanks for the corrections dmj, and Vitesse2, keep em coming, folks!!

#31 stevew

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Posted 22 December 2001 - 16:28

I have a book called "Grand Prix Data Book 1997" by David Hayhoe and David Holland.

On page 453, there is a list of Grand Prix Non-Starters. Tom Jones is listed and while there is no indication of date of birth or place of birth, the book does list Jones' nationality as USA.

#32 AlesiUK

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 20:55

Tom Jones was born in Dallas texas on 26th april 1943

his only attempt at qualifying for a gp was the 1967 canadian gp at mosport in which he was deemed to slow to start.

after that one minute fifty one seconds of fame,he competed on and off in various american series including the can-am sereis i nthe late 70's and early eighties.

He is now alive and well,running his own fabricating business in Clevland and is hoping to go out vintage racing next year in a march f5000car.

#33 Slyder

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Posted 07 April 2002 - 21:49

Isn't Tom Jones a singer?

You know "It's not unusual"

or a movie? :confused:

#34 Kuwashima

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 00:51

Allen,

We've finally managed to get back in touch with Tom Jones specifically to answer the questions you raised. I hope they help you in some way!!

I'd like to find out more about these two F5000 cars. The McLaren M22 is now owned by Harry Mathews but its history is unclear. Could Jones tell you who he bought the car from and who he sold it to?

He says he bought it from George Winerstein, who represented Trojan cars who did all of McLaren's customer manufacturing. Jones sold the McLaren car to a guy called Victodia (?) in a southern suburb of Cleveland. He raced it for two years, and the car is now out in Denver Colorado.

This last car is also very interesting as it was usually entered as a March 74A but your biography mentions it as the ex-Cannon car. Cannon raced an increasingly modified F5000 March 73A/751 from 1973 to 1976 and then appears again in Australia in 1978. However, in May of 1976, Cannon advertised a "brand-new" "replica" of his car. Could this be what Jones bought?

And then the comment that I found most interesting of all. Jones is planning to go into historic racing with his F5000 March! So he still has it? After all these years?

The March 74-A was originally a factory team car that Michael Wildes drove in European F5000 in. Then a guy from the Bahamas bought it who messed it up (Tom couldn't remember the name, he may have been put in prison for drug transportation!). Tom bought it from this guy and has indeed owned it ever since.

Anyway, not too heavy on the detail, but I hope this helps in some way... :wave:

#35 Allen Brown

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Posted 11 April 2002 - 07:13

Kuwashima

Many thanks for this. Jones' memory is very good and I think I can add a little more. "George Winerstein" may be George Wintersteen but I didn't know he was involved with Trojan. Vic Todia drove a McLaren in 1976 so that must be the ex-Jones car. The car is now in the Mathews Collection.

The March 74A would be ex-Mike Wilds. A later owner was reported to have sold it to Jamaica so this establishes that Jones bought (and has retained) that car.

Allen

#36 Gabrci

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 20:31

Is there any chance that this is our man?

#37 Macca

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 20:59

Originally posted by VDP
There was also a Jones entered in 1968 for the british GP
with a cooper maserati ? source M Hubin ?

Robert

Can anyone confirm this entry? And if so the initial too?

Paul M

#38 RStock

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 21:30

Originally posted by Macca

Can anyone confirm this entry? And if so the initial too?

Paul M

STATS F1 has a listing for him , and it would be the same Tom Jones that was at the Canadian GP .

http://statsf1.com/default.aspx < Check under drivers

#39 Huw Jadvantich

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 22:43

This may shed some more light....just help yourself ...

http://www.classicca...aren-202?page=3

#40 mwphoto

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 13:36

Some F/5000 history about Tom Jones here
As well as a very nice pic from 1974@Mid-Ohio

For some reason thats a very familiar looking on-track picture on http://www.classicca...aren-202?page=0 .

#41 Gabrci

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 22:41

Excellent and very rare photo, thanks very much!

Does anyone happen to know if the photo I posted shows Mr. Jones?

#42 Gabrci

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 20:42

I've heard a strong guess that it is indeed Canada 1967, but it's Bruce McLaren driving Jones' car during practice. I must admit I'd never heard that McLaren ever drove that car.

#43 Barry Boor

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 09:27

It does look like Bruce, a bit, but the helmet looks white. Bruce used a silver one.....

#44 antony duprat

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 21:54

A end of the mistery: Tom at the 1967 Canadian GP...Yes he was !!! :up:

:smoking:

#45 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 12:10

Sadly Tom Jones died on the 28th May. ORC got an email today from Kevin O'Grady with the sad news. Thanks Kevin for the information.
I'll add more details and fully update Tom's profile on WATN tonight when I'm home.
Sad that F1 rejects is no more so you can't see the profile any more.
RIP Tom

#46 ReWind

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 17:21

The funeral home says he passed away on May 29th.

#47 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 22 June 2015 - 20:15

Cheers Reinhard.

Just to add that Jones suffered a fatal heart-attack whilst at his fabricating and welding business, and at death, still owned the March 74A he raced in when racing in SCCA.

#48 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:14

A fascinating thread, not well read by some I see, but full of interesting stuff...

The photo above, posted by antony duprat as a thumbnail, brings with it perilous stuff for your computer. So seeing as I've been through it I post it again in a usable form:

I'm now inclined to ask about this car. Is that really a Maserati engine in the back? I thought they were bigger.

And it would also be nice if Gabrci (or someone who copied it) could repost the McLaren shot as well.

#49 275 GTB-4

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 00:13

Sadly Tom Jones died on the 28th May. ORC got an email today from Kevin O'Grady with the sad news. Thanks Kevin for the information.
I'll add more details and fully update Tom's profile on WATN tonight when I'm home.
Sad that F1 rejects is no more so you can't see the profile any more.
RIP Tom

Richard, if the data set or database is still held by someone, then someone like ORC may be able to host it for all to see...just an idea...

#50 Roger Clark

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 13:57

A fascinating thread, not well read by some I see, but full of interesting stuff...

The photo above, posted by antony duprat as a thumbnail, brings with it perilous stuff for your computer. So seeing as I've been through it I post it again in a usable form:

I'm now inclined to ask about this car. Is that really a Maserati engine in the back? I thought they were bigger.

And it would also be nice if Gabrci (or someone who copied it) could repost the McLaren shot as well.

What makes you say it's a Maserati? Contemporary reports said it was an FWMV and that what it looks like to me.

Back to Historical Research, in memory of David McKinney

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Tom Jones - no longer a mystery! (merged)

#1 Kuwashima

#2 Ray Bell

#3 Darren Galpin

#4 Allen Brown

#5 David J Jones

#6 Kuwashima

#7 Allen Brown

#8 Don Capps

#9 Corktree

#10 Roger Clark

#11 fines

#12 Vitesse2

#13 Don Capps

#14 Vitesse2

#15 Kuwashima

#16 VDP

#17 Kuwashima

#18 rtcoman

#19 fines

#20 Barry Lake

#21 Vitesse2

#22 David McKinney

#23 Don Capps

#24 Richard Jenkins

#25 dmj

#26 Richard Jenkins

#27 Allen Brown

#28 Pikachu Racing

#29 Felix Muelas

#30 Kuwashima

#31 stevew

#32 AlesiUK

#33 Slyder

#34 Kuwashima

#35 Allen Brown

#36 Gabrci

#37 Macca

#38 RStock

#39 Huw Jadvantich

#40 mwphoto

#41 Gabrci

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#44 antony duprat

#45 Richard Jenkins

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#48 Ray Bell

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#50 Roger Clark

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