Crystal Palace, forty years on

Can you hang some flesh on that bone, thirty-two, because I have no memory of that event at all and I didn't miss many F.2 races at the Palace?

Thanks, Alan. I was a bit busy with something else in 1971......

No, I didn't work there at the weekends. I'd have been occupied some miles further east.

Scheckter's McLaren M21 was sponsored in 1972 by the Impact Group, which (from my quite possibly faulty memory) owned a number of garages in London.

You're right Block. The July 1972 Motor Sport shows Jody standing alongside the lovely McLaren M21, at an equally delightful garage '..on the A4 in London'. (the car) '..is now being sponsored by Imapct B.S.Holdings Ltd.. Impact are a growing company with varying interests centred around the garage industry.'

If this is the same Impact (once of Ealing) then they're still going. Wonder if Jody tried a refresher course at the driving school in the summer of 1973.

http://www.impactgro...uk/History.aspx

... A driver who i cant remember even though he came from PB area with a red Cobra, sounded impressive being revved up in a High St garage had a big fight with Gabriel Konig in a Britten Midget until he stuffed it into the wall, what was the history of the Cobra and what happened to it afterwards?...

Edited by nikbj68, 07 June 2013 - 11:53.

I can't remember if this clip has already been posted.  After the football, some Formula 2 footage from 1972: Cevert, Hailwood, Gerry Birrell walking back from the first lap crash etc.

That was a new one on me John. Thanks for posting.

I can't remember if this clip has already been posted.  After the football, some Formula 2 footage from 1972: Cevert, Hailwood, Gerry Birrell walking back from the first lap crash etc.

 

Wow.  John, I have just enjoyed twenty minutes of other footage as well, thanks to your clip. Once the sequence ends it gives you a choice of other "similar" videos, as I am sure we all have noticed.

There is some incredible film.  I love it.

But why did Graham Hill continue racing in Formula Two for as long as he did?   I have always been curious about this.

(Edited to  remove vid image)

Edited by MCS, 06 March 2016 - 20:44.

But why did Graham Hill continue racing in Formula Two for as long as he did?   I have always been curious about this.

Graham being Graham and looking to the future

In 1970 he did a limited season with Jochen Rindt Racing (aka BC Ecclestone), I think using some ex-Winkelmann Lotuses, which folded after Jochen's death. That translated to a privately-run Brabham (prop BC Ecclestone) in 1971 and 1972 with sponsorship variously from Tate of Leeds and Jaegermeister.

All a dry run for the start of Embassy-Shadow in 1973 ...

Bernie was also Jochen's personal manager. I have a feeling I've read something about him providing Graham's 1971/2 F2 efforts with support of some sort too. Setting up and running that operation couldn't have been cheap.

Pain or not, Graham was just one of those people who couldn't let go and I'm equally sure a lot of it was just a money-making exercise. As a double WDC he probably commanded more starting money than anyone else in F2 and probably put just as many on the gate as the hotshoes did. I'll bet he got a fair wedge out of Matra for his one-off at Le Mans in 1972 as well. Just as Black Jack no doubt did when he raced for them in 1970 - he was hardly known for sports car racing before that. Well, not at all actually ...

Some saloon and Formula 2 footage from 1970. Frank Gardner and the Boss Mustang! 

Thanks for that John. That's the first time I have ever seen any footage of that meeting. I was in the crowd there somewhere on the approach to North Tower.

Thanks for that John. That's the first time I have ever seen any footage of that meeting. I was in the crowd there somewhere on the approach to North Tower.

I was at South Tower Pete, my first visit to the circuit. I had seen a few Formula Two races by then and had never seen Jochen Rindt beaten until this meeting! He probably would have won this one too, but it made a change to see the Tecnos of Cevert and Regazzoni battling with Stewart's Coombs Brabham. 

Thanks for that John. That's the first time I have ever seen any footage of that meeting. I was in the crowd there somewhere on the approach to North Tower.

I was probably very close by.

Of all the circuits I've visited over the years this is the one I'd loved to have raced on. Sadly it closed 8 years to early.

Edited by alansart, 29 September 2016 - 17:36.

Thanks for that John. That's the first time I have ever seen any footage of that meeting. I was in the crowd there somewhere on the approach to North Tower.

I was probably very close by.

That makes three of us then. I was right at the front of the crowd at North Tower. So close to the action you felt you could almost reach out and touch the cars ...

So close to the action you felt you could almost reach out and touch the cars ...

Which is one of the reasons (amongst many others) that it closed.

Slightly OT but I chanced upon this. Quite a sight.

Worth looking in the comments section too!

https://www.ianvisit...-palace-subway/

Looking back at Alan Raine's 2012 photos, I wondered if this beautiful Victorian 'subway' was perhaps near the building on the left in the 'Maxim Rise' photo. The bridge and railway station we remember from racing days was just near there.

Then I reread the description in the link above and realised that the 'high-level' station was an entirely different beast. The link below shows it to have been on the A212, on the other side of where the huge glass Palace once stood. So, for any of us watching from the exit of South Tower, by the start line, or on the entrance to North Tower, the Victorian subway was behind us, some distance across the park.

http://www.cpsubway....the-subway.html

Edited by john winfield, 12 July 2017 - 09:42.

If I recall correctly, the 'Impact' logos on Scheckter's car were large but plain & gave no other indication about the nature of the company. I did not even link it to the Impact School of Motoring around Ealing, where I was based.
Perhaps not the best use of sponsorship potential. As a rule of thumb, you have to spend at least the same again as you spend on a racing car to have any 'impact'.

Drifting further OT on this thread, I was channel-hopping last night and watched ten minutes of that high-quality (?) 1972 film comedy Ooh, You Are Awful!  Dick Emery, in drag, drives to a funeral parlour in a Ford Transit belonging to 'Impact Van Rental'. Quite clearly the same logo as that on Jody's F2 McLaren & the team's support vehicles. Another missed opportunity for the mysterious Impact group! Surely Dick Emery should have been strutting around the 1972 Crystal Palace grid, hearing double-entendres when they weren't there, and knocking over well-meaning interviewers?

Edited by john winfield, 07 September 2020 - 15:42.

Sitting firmly on John's tangent, when I lived in Kew (West London), I regularly passed a car - presumably parked outside the instructor's home - with a rooftop board proudly proclaiming Impact School of Motoring.

I used to dream of staging a take-over bid for his company and rebranding it Frightened Rabbit, so that motorists stuck in the queue behind would expect the unexpected.

I never made a trip to Crystal Palace, but I always thought it produced great motor racing on TV and was often covered by the BBC for Grandstand.

Not sure if this footage has been posted before, but is typical of the period. Apart perhaps for the Hunt/Morgan clash!!

Edited by LodgeCorner, 08 September 2020 - 18:49.

^ A brilliant find. The Palace was my second home (after Brands) and I was there for this one.

I never made a trip to Crystal Palace, but I always thought it produced great motor racing on TV and was often covered by the BBC for Grandstand.

 

Not sure if this footage has been posted before, but is typical of the period. Apart perhaps for the Hunt/Morgan clash!!

 

Always a good watch. Interesting that it was broadcast in colour whereas the following year the BBC reverted to black and white for the famous Thomas/Marshall/Crabtree saloon car scrap.

Not a bad race.  And cars with attitude,, gentle slides.

Would love to have seen the last corner shunt with Hunt. He was just a bit agressive!

Not a bad race.  And cars with attitude,, gentle slides.

Would love to have seen the last corner shunt with Hunt. He was just a bit agressive!

Dave Morgan, probably unfairly, took some stick that season - it seems he had to race fairly aggressively to keep his March 703 up with the faster cars. Knowing what we do now about James's 'heat of the moment' reactions, when things have gone wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a 'racing incident', two competitive guys looking for a fast line out of South Tower, just wanting to cross the line first. There was no justification I'm sure for Hunt to punch Morgan.  Just ask Dave's Mum.

Dave had his own back at Mallory Park eighteen months later. He won the F2 race while James was still stuck in F3!  Hunt's career was obviously going nowhere. What happened to him after F3 in 1972 anyway? Anybody know?

Dave had his own back at Mallory Park eighteen months later. He won the F2 race while James was still stuck in F3!  Hunt's career was obviously going nowhere. What happened to him after F3 in 1972 anyway? Anybody know?

There's a Wikipedia page about him, and his obituary in Motor Sport is here:

https://www.motorspo...organ-1944-2018

At the time of the South Tower incident, I was astonished that Hunt kept his licence. Punching another driver in the middle of a racetrack didn't seem entirely acceptable, but if memory serves me right, the officials penalised Morgan rather than Hunt.

There was a terrific quality of driver in British F3 in the sixties and seventies, and two heats and a final at Crystal Palace was a great way to see them, and those fabulous cars. How did they divide the field into heats? Odd numbers and even numbers, of course. What better way?

There's a Wikipedia page about him, and his obituary in Motor Sport is here:

https://www.motorspo...organ-1944-2018

 

 

I meant James Hunt.  It was a joke.  Of sorts.

But thanks for the Dave Morgan link anyway......

Doh! I'll go back to bed...

Conflating the thread title and Vitesse2's signature line (and thus going way off topic...)...  it is forty years - plus some weeks - since Bob Marley played at Crystal Palace.

A small sample of my collection of Palace programmes ( I have the programme for every post-war car meeting). In the picture you can see the programmes for the first and last post war events, also, the two programmes that were the hardest to track down: the 1965 Jaguar DC meeting, and the 1971 Trumps Moto Pop evening meeting. The 1964 Jaguar DC meeting prog. is also pretty scarce.

There was an extensive range of designs for the front cover of Palace programmes over the years, the strangest probably being the one you can see in the top middle above, from 1969.

Edited by pete53, 13 September 2020 - 14:39.

Were you / are you local to The Palace, Pete, and thus a regular attendee - or have amassed this impressive collection largely after the fact?

Were you / are you local to The Palace, Pete, and thus a regular attendee - or have amassed this impressive collection largely after the fact?

I first visited the track Whit Monday 1963 and thereafter attended most meetings, but not the 1965 Jaguar DC event nor the Moto Pop meeting, hence my mission to track those programmes down. Everything before 1963 I have had to purchase after the event, but, thanks largely to Ebay, it wasn't too difficult. I also have every motor bike racing programme bar about three.

I lived in West Wickham ( in between Croydon and Bromley) so the journey to Crystal Palace Park was a mere two bus journeys.

I didn't see Bob Marley at the Palace ( that must have been his last UK tour - I saw him at the Brighton Centre July 1980) but did see Pink Floyd and Elton John concerts at the bowl.

Thank you, Pete.

Sadly, I never saw racing at The Palace (only the more recent SDMC sprints!). I moved here about some years after racing ended - shame really as I'm only a few minutes walk away.

(The Bowl seems to have been rarely used in recent years.) 

Nice collection of covers.  That Sept 1969 British Road Services Trophy cover is a bit wierd. I think it is the BRS logo on the drivers face in brake dust !  Either that or he had some strange goggles.

I have a 4pp flyer for the Moto-Pop Trumps meeting and see that it was an evening event with the first race at 6.30pm.  Humphrey Lyttleton was playing from 9pm. Wish I had gone now only 50p admission too.  Pete if you want the flyer to go with your programme I will gladly send it on, just send me a PM.

Chris

A nice little feature on historic car racing at the Palace. Just a shame somebody forgot to switch the mike on

I think this must have bee taken at either the 1971 or 1972 Aston Martin OC meeting.

1972 at the final meeting.

Fabulous grid of pre war racing cars - I was there and treasure the memory.

Strange that the Pathe title is Vintage Racing Cars At Crystal Palace (1970-1974) when there was no racing after 1972.

1972 at the final meeting.

Fabulous grid of pre war racing cars - I was there and treasure the memory.

Strange that the Pathe title is Vintage Racing Cars At Crystal Palace (1970-1974) when there was no racing after 1972.

I think a fair few TNFers were there. Including me.

It's unused footage, so probably found in a box of miscellaneous stuff. Maybe the sound was recorded separately to be overdubbed afterwards and - because it wasn't used - was simply wiped or recorded over. Lots of Pathé's unused film is poorly attributed or completely unidentified.

I never went to a race meeting at CP but saw several races on TV...the Hunt / Morgan F3 clash, the BSCC with Gordon Spice winning in his Britax-Downton Cooper S and the Thomas / Marshall / Brodie[?} big saloon thrash.

One time I did go was to see Rick Wakeman performing "Journey to the Centre of the Earth"......there were a few drug-stoned youths splashing about in the lake. Also in the lake were several deflated dinosaurs waiting to be used in the gig......when these were inflated, the reaction from those stoned individuals was highly amusing      

I think a fair few TNFers were there. Including me.

 

I don't remember seeing any of you there...

I was also at the final, final meeting, which was for karts.

Some years later,  I was in a rally that started from the Park.  Stage 1 started on the pit straight and ran up the terraces where the actual Palace once stood.  The start marshal gave us the wrong time and so we were nearly a minute faster than anyone else.  I did argue with the marshals as I felt guilty about getting such an advantage, but they were having none of it.  So off we went to Stage 2 with a massive lead, only to knock a wheel off on a tree.  But we woz winning when we went out!!

Edited by BRG, 17 September 2020 - 19:30.

I don't remember seeing any of you there...

I didn't have a beard then.

Crystal Palace was used as Special Stages 27 and 28 of the first Happy Eater Rally in September 77. I co drove on it. The stage format sounds like that described by BRG above but was in the second day of that event, not the start. I did not do the later event(s).

A 24hour or so stage event interspersed with a night selective event in and around London was almost as bizarre then as it would be now and, coming immediately between co driving on a Belgian International and the UK's top National forest rally was err...different.

I don't remember seeing any of you there...

Well of course none of us saw each other. The hair over our eyes...

Like RS2000 I recall a non-circuit event at Crystal Palace which was a Driving Test (as we called 'em then) meeting. I can't remember if it was a Lancia MC event which the Combined One-Make Car Club co-promoted or an event put on by  COMCC in its own right.

I'll have to think a bit if I'm to put a date on it and as I marshalled I haven't a trophy to help remember it by. What I think is that it was after the track had closed for racing.

Edited by Allan Lupton, 18 September 2020 - 13:55.

Crystal Palace was used as Special Stages 27 and 28 of the first Happy Eater Rally in September 77. I co drove on it. The stage format sounds like that described by BRG above but was in the second day of that event, not the start. I did not do the later event(s).

I remember the Happy Eater Rally - a strangely ambitious event (was it one of Rick Smith's attempts to get a major rally close to London?) although I didn't compete.  I must have been marshalling or servicing, I think.

I have looked in my archives (as I laughably called them) and find it was the 218 Stages in August 1980.  OMG, more than 40 years ago...where did the hair go?  Stage 2 was at the Beddington sewage...sorry, 'water treatment' works, near Croydon, so there was no chance of Lewis Hamilton being there.  Not that he was even born then.  But there was an inconveniently sited tree that we hit.