Silver City Trophy - 1959
#1
Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:06
The F.1 cars are numbers from 1 up to 10, apparently, but this group includes Chris Summers and Ian Raby. What I am wondering is, were these two actually in full 2.5 litre Coopers or were they F.2 cars simply slotted into holes in the entry?
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#2
Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:20
I wonder if anyone can clear up a point about the entry for this event?
The F.1 cars are numbers from 1 up to 10, apparently, but this group includes Chris Summers and Ian Raby. What I am wondering is, were these two actually in full 2.5 litre Coopers or were they F.2 cars simply slotted into holes in the entry?
As far as I can make out from the Autosport race report, they were both F2s. Raby's car is described as a '1.7 litre Hume Cooper'.
#3
Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:23
#4
Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:58
I suppose I really should have made a Hume Cooper but it's too late now, 1959 is nearly over.
#6
Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:16
Edited by Roger Clark, 25 September 2012 - 06:17.
#7
Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:29
But it pays to check with people who have access to more information than what I got. (than that which I have).
Nobody is infallible but I'm told this Sheldon chappy is pretty good.
#8
Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:27
#9
Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:42
1959 is nearly over.
I'll soon be celebrating my first Birthday
#10
Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:18
q
The start of this race must have been quite a sight because the grid lined up 5-4-5-4. I wouldn't mind betting that they all avoided running into one another.
Good point. Defensive weaving off the line wasn't 'on' then. In fact defensive driving involved maintaining a straight line with so many cars already abreast.
This wasn't so much discipline or sportsmanship as simple self-preservation...
DCN
#11
Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:38
There were quite a few 1700s and 1750s in 1957/58 - especially in the colonies, but also in UK libre racingWere 1.7-litre FPFs very common?
I guess it was the simplest overbore of the standard 1500, before the official 1960cc version became available
#12
Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:50
You'd lose. Raby's got sideways and was hit by Brian Whitehouse.The start of this race must have been quite a sight because the grid lined up 5-4-5-4. I wouldn't mind betting that they all avoided running into one another.
#13
Posted 25 September 2012 - 14:00
#14
Posted 25 September 2012 - 15:00
I hadn't heard of that. We're Climax involved or was it a private venture?There were quite a few 1700s and 1750s in 1957/58 - especially in the colonies, but also in UK libre racing
I guess it was the simplest overbore of the standard 1500, before the official 1960cc version became available
The bore of the 1960cc engine and the stroke of the original FPF would give 1670cc while the bore of the 2.2 would give 1764cc. is that how they did it? Presumably larger pistons and liners would be cheaper than a new crankshaft.
#15
Posted 25 September 2012 - 16:10
Not according to the results on the F2 Register site, posted by Vince above.That can't be right - they finished 9th and 11th, respectively.
#16
Posted 25 September 2012 - 16:16
(check the wink on my post)
Although the same driver won both.
Edited by Barry Boor, 25 September 2012 - 16:17.
#17
Posted 25 September 2012 - 16:34
I'm fairly sure the works/Walker 'F1' car ran a 1.7 engine in some 1957 races. McLaren had one (the same one?) for the following year's NZ internationals, and Dick Gibson another. When Brabham sold his 1960cc car to Merv Neil it was said the engine came "without Jack's special crankshaft", whereupon Neil entered it as 1750cc. He also raced it in England in 1958, and I think Gibson did the same with his car (both also had 1500 cars in England that year)I hadn't heard of that. We're Climax involved or was it a private venture?
The bore of the 1960cc engine and the stroke of the original FPF would give 1670cc while the bore of the 2.2 would give 1764cc. is that how they did it? Presumably larger pistons and liners would be cheaper than a new crankshaft.
As to how the size was achieved, I don't know (apart from the Brabham/Neil reference above). I've just had a quick flick through DCN's Cooper Bible and can't find any explanation, though he does mention McLaren racing a '1.7' in NZ in January 1958
#18
Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:29
Good point. Defensive weaving off the line wasn't 'on' then. In fact defensive driving involved maintaining a straight line with so many cars already abreast.
This wasn't so much discipline or sportsmanship as simple self-preservation...
DCN
Wasn't there a dirt great cabbage field to the outside of Riches - best run-off area known to man, and an easy way to get an early crop.
#19
Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:14
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#20
Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:19
Edited by D-Type, 26 September 2012 - 13:20.
#21
Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:29
#22
Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:32
Still, I wasn't far out on the cars.... Two are wrong - Raby's car is a T.45 and white (I've already explained that one) but Trevor Taylor's Cooper black? That's a surprise because earlier in 1959 it was green with white stripes down the tip of the nose. So my Taylor car is green.
I take issue with the programme on the Twisk Cooper. I have a colour picture of it somewhere and the 'other' colour is clearly orange, which given his nationality, seems likely. A b&w picture from Motor Sport earlier in the year shows the Gilby Cooper as having the silver sections that you can see on #20. Ditto the red on the Parnell car.
My entry did not include Stan Hart (not listed on the programme) because I simply did not have a car for him, but did include John Campbell-Jones (#26) who also does not appear on Andrew's list.
Following some discussion with Andrew a while back, I drew up my Snetterton based on the line of the circuit that I had drawn on Google Earth. The angle of the picture tends to foreshorten the run up to and from the hairpin but I was very happy with the circuit.
Thanks for the help, Andrew.
Edited by Barry Boor, 27 September 2012 - 07:37.
#23
Posted 27 September 2012 - 10:56
#24
Posted 27 September 2012 - 17:04
#25
Posted 27 September 2012 - 17:28
I recall that when I first began buying Motoring News it was 6d, while Autosport cost 2/6, 5 times the price. I couldn't afford Autorport for many years until I started work. I note that the ratio between them today is 1:1.15. How come there is so little price difference these days?Autosport 1s 6d or 8p a week it is 35 times that now , those were the days. If average wages had gone up like that everyone would be taking home £1000 a week now. No wonder magazine circulation has dropped off so much since then , ironically computer layouts and high speed printing have made such amazing technological progress vastly reducing labour costs in the period to now..
#26
Posted 27 September 2012 - 17:29
Autosport 1s 6d or 8p a week it is 35 times that now , those were the days. If average wages had gone up like that everyone would be taking home £1000 a week now. No wonder magazine circulation has dropped off so much since then , ironically computer layouts and high speed printing have made such amazing technological progress vastly reducing labour costs in the period to now..
Average wage (whatever that means) was under £900 in 1959 http://uk.answers.ya...15071014AA4sFWm
It seems to be over 40 times as much today.
#27
Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:02
Motoring News was 4d when I first bought it-now get 'Motorsport News'
online.
#28
Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:30
I know Aberdeen is called the 'Silver City'.
Any connection with McSnetterton?
#29
Posted 28 September 2012 - 08:40
Silver City Airways (Wiki)
#30
Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:18
Average wage (whatever that means) was under £900 in 1959 http://uk.answers.ya...15071014AA4sFWm
It seems to be over 40 times as much today.
We can indeed quibble about how much more we earn now but I bet the amount each individual spends on taxes income, council, purchase and or value added is much higher again, this might be why everyone feels poorer and magazine sales are down.
#31
Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:38
ISTR there was a Silver City Trophy race at Brands (or was it Silverstone?) in the same periodI always assumed that the race was sponsored/supported by Silver City Airways, but I don't know definitely:
#32
Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:04
#33
Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:39
The first televised race from Snetterton was the 1961 Lombank Trophy, won by Black Jack in Tommy Atkins' Intercontinental 2.5 Cooper. That TV coverage you can see here: http://www.eafa.org....atalogue/213370Back to thread title;I think this was the first Snetterton race I ever saw (on black & white TV)following Oulton Park Gold Cup the previous weekend I think.
Motoring News was 4d when I first bought it-now get 'Motorsport News'
online.
Edited by Andrew Kitson, 28 September 2012 - 10:41.
#34
Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:10
I always assumed that the race was sponsored/supported by Silver City Airways, but I don't know definitely:
It was, indeed, sponsored by the airline and there were also a number of races at Brands of the same name. I think Shane Summers' fatal accident was during practice for the 1961 race.ISTR there was a Silver City Trophy race at Brands (or was it Silverstone?) in the same period
Edited by Alan Cox, 28 September 2012 - 13:13.
#35
Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:43