Mclaren engine deal

Edited by Babak, 10 October 2012 - 21:29.

Why do you think Honda rumors are back? I thinks it's somewhat clear: no top-tier team likes/can afford to relegate to mid field, which is what will happen come 2014: Mercedes, Ferrari, and Renault will certainly give an edge to their main team when engine development is back in full force beginning in 2014, so teams like Mclaren, Lotus, Sauber will be at a clear disadvantage. It would make total sense if anyone of these team could lure other engine manufacturers back to F1 to be their main partner. Like Mclaren Honda, or Lotus Whatever or ...

honda aint comin in 2014, that's for sure.;)

Edited by ViMaMo, 11 October 2012 - 05:47.

Considering Ilmor, which no longer exists, is wholly owned by Mercedes, I kind of doubt that could ever happen.

Pretty sure that any supply agreement would not allow this, and that any used engines have to be returned to the manufacturer.

till mercedes came along and saved their asses in woking.

That is a lot of wrong in one little paragraph.

There is a maximum fuel flow restriction of 100kg/hr above 10500rpm, which means efficiency is everything if you want more power so everyone will run their 8-speed gearbox engines in 10500-12000rpm range because lower speeds are more efficient.

Turbos are far more efficient, partly because they will be miller cycle with late inlet valve close for part filled cylinder (10% less fuel than non-miller = 10% more power in fuel flow restricted engine) and partly because they will run lean at max power.

In most IC engines maximum power at a given pressure limit is obtained at ~10% overfuelling (0.9 Lambda, 13:1 AF ratio) the only reason you ever go richer than that (as many so called high performance supercar turbos do) is to keep your turbine inlet and valve temperatures below temp limit, not because you need more turbine power (which you are almost always throwing away through the wastegate at peak power point anyway - the wastegate is only fully closed at <2000rpm on a road car turbo where you can't achieve peak torque and temperature isn't a problem). You also can't go lean in road cars as that stops your catalytic converter from working and is verboten.

But in these racing fuel flow restricted F1 V6s the electric motor linked turbo only needs to operate at one optimised speed, pressure and mass flow (about 0.5kg/s 2-2.5 bar boost for 2014 F1) - never a lag issue to deal with and probably no wastegate -so very little like conventional inefficient low inertia turbocharger turbines, more like a small Capstone Gas Turbines - (their C60 model minus the heat exchangers and combustor would actually be pretty close to perfect).

The inlet manifold pressure will be significantly higher than the exhaust manifold pressure so you get free scavenging air blowing through the engine during exhaust/inlet valve overlap, and that will also cools the valves and turbine slightly as well as contributing more power to the engine (induction stroke becomes a slight power stroke too).

The pre-Intercooler blow-off valve will dump to the Turbine inlet through an efficient low-loss low-noise faired poppet valve to recover some energy from the compressed air while maintaining compressor speed (if they are not trying to use it for downforce generation elsewhere), and letting the Intercooler cool off slightly, so probably won't ever hear a blow off valve in operation.

The engine will be running lean for highest efficiency/power while upping the boost to make that possible, and because Miller Cycle extracts more heat from the exhaust before it reaches the turbine and because proper cutting edge production turbines such as Audi S series use can run at 1050°C for the life of a car anyway (so don't require over-fuelling) they will not be worried about overheating the turbines in a race engine where they only need to last 10 hours.

With 6 cylinders and 12000rpm they will have half the frequency of 18000rpm V8s and with the more efficient and complete expansion of the Miller Cycle as well as with everything passing through an efficient turbine exhaust diffuser to extract max exhaust energy it means a big reduction in exhaust noise too. These engines will be potent, but not nearly the same level of sound as V8 NA.

Saved fuel = much lighter car with same power (perhaps 20-30% less fuel used with extra KERs and all that) = a big performance gain during race.

1. How much do teams pay for Mercedes engine?
2. How much do teams pay for Ferrari engine?
3. How much do teams pay for Renault engine?

I would appreciate it if anyone could answer.

The same non-existent Ilmor that just cleaned up the 2012 Indycar series with a V6 turbo direct-injected engine on Chevrolet's behalf?

McLaren could afford buying cosworth and developing their own engine. But will they? I think not.

I guess so. They're still owned by Mercedes. Chevrolet just paid to put their name on it.

I guess so. They're still owned by Mercedes. Chevrolet just paid to put their name on it.

last week cosworth announced that they may consider 2014 engine supply, and said that their version of V6 has been in the development for atleast 6 months (maybe simulation/mockups).

Cosworth for sale.

Didnt McLaren buy off BMW F1 engine plant in UK?

Didnt McLaren buy off BMW F1 engine plant in UK?

... with a Merc badge slapped on them...

But since Cosworth are openly for sale, I think a McLaren deal is not in the cards. Otherwise they'd have announced something along those lines, instead.

http://www.yallaf1.c...place-mercedes/

Interesting update.

http://www.yallaf1.c...place-mercedes/

Interesting update.

Edited by marina, 23 October 2012 - 16:08.

The Sun newspaper...

Didnt McLaren buy off BMW F1 engine plant in UK?