Who will get the chance at Ferrari?

Massa is good old sofa from which the back-pains start....
Time is overdue for replacement

Putting Vettel at Ferrari in 2014 when Alonso is there is just asking for it..

Never gonna happen

People keep repeating this and I'm yet to see any evidence to corroborate it.

Just recently Kubica said that all roads were leading to Ferrari to partner Alonso. Now unless you're of the opinion that Kubica would have signed as a number 2 then I can't see why Perez is too fast or ambitious for Alonso.

The reason Ferrari skipped on Perez is because a) he ain't good enough, b) they have another alternative in Vettel or both.

I think Hulk has signed.

I hope so, he is a promising young driver and I would like to see him in the Ferrari (though I would have preferred di Resta). I just hope Massa doesn't get another year, I am bored with him, he has had his day. Time for some new blood at Ferrari.

which in my opinion is nothing but funny.

ok. I can take that on the chin. I still think that is what LdM said. He did not say SP was not good enough for Ferrari.


If Massa was perfectly groomed and ready back then, then Perez is multiple times more perfectly ready than Massa.
Sure, test driver back then could get hugely more in-car mileage than current test drivers can, but still the role wasnt any more significant than currently is. That some drivers got regular seat through testing role route while some didnt hasnt really changed much.

I don't understand how you could reach that conclusion, but let's agree to disagree.


Massa sure had potential and is indeed a good driver, but he was picked up by Ferrari coz son of then-team boss was his manager, and still remains in the team coz they have some business relationship with Massa family.

I can't argue that was not a factor, but it does not make a difference as to them making a safe decision on Massa back then, they knew what they were getting.


If that's what Ferrari want, that's it then, up to them.
But if the several rumors that they want Vettel or wouldve picked Kubica already had he not injured, or even Hamilton, and have no hesitation to pair one of them alongside Alonso, are true or have some ground, then that they refuse Perez because he's too talented, eager and amitious doesnt make sense anymore. What's wrong if Perez match up well against Alonso in the first place?

Well, that's exactly it. They are in a very sensitive position with FA. He has been with the team for three years now, and it is time to deliver. They will not endanger that with pairing him up with a highly talented, ambitious, and most probably aggressive driver, upsetting the balance in the team. It is just not effective. exactly because they know SP. so let's agree to disagree further.

Edited by Szoelloe, 29 September 2012 - 18:23.

I fear Massa

My gut says Hulk

My heart wishes for Michael

Well i can say it is easy choice ,Hulk ..... perfect time for him to show up in a big team so we can see whether he will be future champ or not.

Well i can say it is easy choice ,Hulk ..... perfect time for him to show up in a big team so we can see whether he will be future champ or not.

But won't happen I think.

I would love to see Michael but, that is unlikely.

Most likely Massa again.

Edited by George Costanza, 29 September 2012 - 19:21.

I doubt Ferrari would risk upsetting the apple-cart by bringing Schumacher back. He's the least likely of the seat-filler candidates for next year IMO.

Although i don't want Massa to stay i think he will. Hopefully the Hulkenberg rumours are true. Also Tom Gaymor said on Eurosport earlier that Jules Bianchi was talking quite a bit with Ferrari in Singapore. Just a regular chat? Or a possible race seat? (Although i very much doubt it).

Although i don't want Massa to stay i think he will. Hopefully the Hulkenberg rumours are true. Also Tom Gaymor said on Eurosport earlier that Jules Bianchi was talking quite a bit with Ferrari in Singapore. Just a regular chat? Or a possible race seat? (Although i very much doubt it).

Almost impossible, because they want a more experienced driver. You can argue that Hulk is a bit more experienced than Perez, but Bianchi?

I hope the Hulk rumours are true - even if it's just for one year, it would make the situation at Ferrari more interesting after we have seen the usual pattern there for years now.

He Michael retires, give the young guns a chance..............

Edited by sterling49, 29 September 2012 - 21:27.

I fear Massa

You're obviously not a Formula One driver

Massa = beaten by Alonso.

Hülkenberg = beaten by Di Resta.

Please Massa (yes I like the Hulk but I think Massa's the better driver).

Hülkenberg = beaten by Di Resta.

For the moment.....

Just two races ago Hulk was leading.

I would be shocked if Ferrari kept Massa again. How many years in a row are we going to have this conversation? I don't know how he's dodged the bullet this long, to be honest.

Because for Santander Massa's nationality has always been more important than his on track performance... read this. He helps Santander, and Ferrari make a lot of money, even more money than Alonso has been able to attract, through merchandising, checking accounts, insurance sales, credit cards and other services, that's why...

They will probably retain Massa, that will happen most likely if Vettel really is coming to Ferrari in 2014.
If Vettel isn't coming, then I would not be surprised if they signed Nico H.

For the moment.....

Just two races ago Hulk was leading.

Perez is not good enough for Ferrari THEREFORE Hulkenberg is not good enough for Ferrari.

IMO even Grosjean and Maldonado have been more impressive than Hulkenberg!

Hulkenberg does not deserve a top seat, it will be Kovalainen Mk II.

Massa earnt his place by eventually his top place by beating Raikkonen -- Kova did not and was rightly dropped, the same would happen with Hulk IMO so why bother. (Even if Massa isn't as good now a days.)

Even Maldonado was better compared to Barrichello than Hulk was I think. Thats just not up to scratch by Hulk -- just not good enough.

Webber or Kubica

Jacques Villeneuve.

Schumacher and Alonso in one team will be historic and a nightmare to all the other teams.
I would love to see that!

Since the British GP onwards

Massa has scored 40 points
Fernando - 83
Button - 69
Lewis - 54
Sebastien 80
Webber - 41
Kimi - 76

Tbh, i dont see why people say Felipe has been performing **** O.o ?
As **** as Webber ?? How is it that bad ?

Mclaren drivers have had reliability issues ( and grosjean for hami )

I think He has an acceptable No.2 to Alonso performance the second half of this season.
And if Vettel rumors are true, then he is a perfect choice for 2013.
If Ferrari actually produce a good, fast yet balanced car, then He will do even better.

Not really a great comparison with other drivers. For example since Silverstone, Hamilton has had two wins and three DNF's, one robbing him of a almost certain win. It's not unreasonable to say that he should have taken close to a hundred points in those five races if it were not for the bad luck compared to Massa's. All the drivers that you mentioned have had a DNF that wasn't their fault in the races since the British GP, apart from Kimi. Massa has been picking up some points from the leaders misfortunes.

Not really a great comparison with other drivers. For example since Silverstone, Hamilton has had two wins and three DNF's, one robbing him of a almost certain win. It's not unreasonable to say that he should have taken close to a hundred points in those five races if it were not for the bad luck compared to Massa's. All the drivers that you mentioned have had a DNF that wasn't their fault in the races since the British GP, apart from Kimi. Massa has been picking up some points from the leaders misfortunes.

I did state the Mclaren drivers misfortunes, and i havent directly compared Massa to them, but compared him to Webber, who has been comprehensively outperformed by Massa in the last 5 races.
If he gets his quali right, then he is the perfect seat warmer for supposedly Vettel in 2014

I personally would really like to give that seat to Robert Kubica.

What if Felipe is just filling in the seat in 2013, so that Kubica can join for 2014? Perfect for Alonso, perfect for Italian media, test driver for Pirelli in 2013 so interesting because of the tyre knowledge he will have....

Doubtful if Robert really will be ready, so otherwise pursue getting Vettel - which I somehow still don't see because of a possible meltdown with Alonso....but it could be Luca's sweet wish to have the two best drivers in the world.

Oh come on, you must be joking right? At least Massa doesn't crash into other cars because of low responsiveness. Schumachers days are over, he's too old which is proven by his lack of attention when cars in front of him make sudden movements.

Like Montoya crashing into Schumacher in Monaco behind the safety car?

I don't see any logic in signing Massa, but I also don't understand why is he still there. Schumacher would be fun.

LdM saying alot of funny things, like calling for 3 cars or shorter race. LdM said Perez not ready for F1, then hiring Hulk instead of Perez is indeed bizarre to me no matter how I try to look at it. If there was any obstacle b/w Ferrari and Perez, I suspect it's more business related, like Ferrari currently has no space to accept Slim's money. Could be that Ferrari wanting to postpone decision for next year alot later, then there was immediate Mclaren offer so Perez couldnt afford to wait, tho, but we'll never know, at least soon.

What I meant by test driver role wasnt really significant back then isnt about getting in-car mileage that was giving advantage to rookies (as i mentioned), but that it didnt always lead to regular seat, and that hasnt changed in a way that it's just one of many routes to land regular seat. There were forever-test drivers back then who never looked like getting regular seat, like PDLR, Paffet, Baddor, etc or even Davidson. Drivers like Alonso, Massa etc gained experience as testing driver by taking year out, but i'm not really sure that did them any good, it was more like being made to wait due to situation. Participating GPs as regular driver even in Minardis was still far better than being testing driver.

I know Ferrari are building long term plan with Alonso, but why they wouldve pick up Kubica then? coz they thought he wasnt as good as Alonso? or they thought Kubica would be supportive and get along with team and Alonso? (I suspect Ferrari are still waiting for Kubica actually btw)
About Perez, following him closely, I say Perez is ambitious but just as ambitious/aggressive as any other drivers. And at the same time he's humble, aware of situation and always thank his supporter in Mexico as well as the team. Quite likable guy. Of course they might know what we dont know, but then Kubica is never shy about expressing his ambition, and there are indeed some anecdotes about him being brutal when it comes to competition.

Massa
Good team player and plenty of experience
Schumi would be fun but not very realistic

LdM saying alot of funny things, like calling for 3 cars or shorter race. LdM said Perez not ready for F1, then hiring Hulk instead of Perez is indeed bizarre to me no matter how I try to look at it. If there was any obstacle b/w Ferrari and Perez, I suspect it's more business related, like Ferrari currently has no space to accept Slim's money. Could be that Ferrari wanting to postpone decision for next year alot later, then there was immediate Mclaren offer so Perez couldnt afford to wait, tho, but we'll never know, at least soon.

What I meant by test driver role wasnt really significant back then isnt about getting in-car mileage that was giving advantage to rookies (as i mentioned), but that it didnt always lead to regular seat, and that hasnt changed in a way that it's just one of many routes to land regular seat. There were forever-test drivers back then who never looked like getting regular seat, like PDLR, Paffet, Baddor, etc or even Davidson. Drivers like Alonso, Massa etc gained experience as testing driver by taking year out, but i'm not really sure that did them any good, it was more like being made to wait due to situation. Participating GPs as regular driver even in Minardis was still far better than being testing driver.

I know Ferrari are building long term plan with Alonso, but why they wouldve pick up Kubica then? coz they thought he wasnt as good as Alonso? or they thought Kubica would be supportive and get along with team and Alonso? (I suspect Ferrari are still waiting for Kubica actually btw)
About Perez, following him closely, I say Perez is ambitious but just as ambitious/aggressive as any other drivers. And at the same time he's humble, aware of situation and always thank his supporter in Mexico as well as the team. Quite likable guy. Of course they might know what we dont know, but then Kubica is never shy about expressing his ambition, and there are indeed some anecdotes about him being brutal when it comes to competition.

As I said, lets agree to disagree. Put it to rest please.

If they keep Massa then they may as well announce they are a one car team. It would be a baffling decision.

As I said, lets agree to disagree. Put it to rest please.

not meant to argue. just wanted to clear some misunderstandings.

not meant to argue. just wanted to clear some misunderstandings.

No problem at all mate.

edit: its a smiley

Edited by Szoelloe, 30 September 2012 - 14:20.

Force India test driver Jules Bianchi is aiming to be promoted to race driver next season,
If he'll get a seat in F1, I think it will be in Force India. Bianchi´s manager is Nicholas Todt,
(same as Felipe Massa). Couldn´t it be possible that they (Ferrari, Force India) agreed
on something that leads to Hulkenberg or di Resta will replace Massa, and Bianchi drive for
Force India in 2013?

Where's the Maldonado option?

Where's the Maldonado option?

Frank has said in his article recently that if mal isn't driving for williams he wont be driving in F1 (for the length of contract signed with him obviously)

I think Massa option is very likely now that he's performing somewhat respectively again. Not saying that it's the right choice, but I think it is the one they'll make.

Phil Massa's time has run out. Di Resta to Ferrari.

Vettel isn't joining in 2014, imo. It's all smoke and mirrors, like Alonso's 'small drivers' comment last week.

What if Felipe is just filling in the seat in 2013, so that Kubica can join for 2014? Perfect for Alonso, perfect for Italian media, test driver for Pirelli in 2013 so interesting because of the tyre knowledge he will have....

Doubtful if Robert really will be ready, so otherwise pursue getting Vettel - which I somehow still don't see because of a possible meltdown with Alonso....but it could be Luca's sweet wish to have the two best drivers in the world.

Ferrari seem very relaxed about their drivers and have someone pencilled in for 2014,2013 will be interesting,if they stick with Massa then Kubrica or Vettel must have signed something IMO.

I think a FA/MS association at Ferrari could easily be called "Team of the Millenium"

Perhaps in 2006....

Since the British GP onwards ...

fortunately, they count the points for the entire year, and not from just the British GP onwards.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 01 October 2012 - 01:42.

If they did not replace Massa for 2012, I don't see why they would replace him for next year.

Raikkonen and Schumacher will absolutely not drive for Ferrari. Heads may have to roll before that happens.

Massa had a contract for 2012, not for 2013.

I'd love to see Hulk finally given a proper car. But a year in Ferrari alongside Alonso could be (and would be) a career ender.

Vettel isn't joining in 2014, imo. It's all smoke and mirrors, like Alonso's 'small drivers' comment last week.

Something to consider: Luca De Montezemelo brought Kimi into Ferrari even though Michael was still at a very high performance level. Could it be that he wanted to curb the influence of Michael's presence over driver selection policy etc, or that he wanted to limit the power of the Todt-Schumacher axis generally?

He was probably right too, as Michael could still be humming and hawing over retirement and it would be diffiicult to bring another star in while Michael, as a 5 time WDC for Ferrari, still exerted that much power. It may have been a year or two too early, however.

Two points arise:

Signing Vettel would be a somewhat similar move, meaning that Fernando does not fully rule the roost and can be eased out when the time comes.
Bringing Schumacher back now would not make sense if those were the original motives for retiring him.

Massa had a contract for 2012, not for 2013.

Yeah, like the contract means much, given Massa's performances!

A French Ferrari mecanic who posts on another forum just dropped this: "Schumacher at Ferrari, not impossible!"

... without anything else. I don't know how reliable he is, but hell, you never know. It could potentially indicate that there are talks between the two parties.

Don't give it too much thought.

Schumi for one year seems possible.... Then Vettel to come in 2014.

Schumacher as a clear #2 to Alonso would be funny.

I'd love to see Hulk being given a go. It'd sort of ruin his hype forever because no way he'd hassle Alonso, but at least we'd get to see what another new talent can do with top machinery. We can also safely disregard the "lack of experience" thing, that was a jab by Luca to Perez given he was moving to their rivals. I think Hulk is a genuine possibility because by now Ferrari will be fed up with Felipe's under-performance and will believe Hulk can deliver more points than him, but it's still a minor risk.

I think it's 50% Felipe 40% Hulk 10% Schumi or someone else, at this point. Hulk will have lost some credit now after Di Resta's strong showing at Singapore - just like at Toro Rosso, the Force India drivers are cancelling each other's chance to look good. I can't see Di Resta to Ferrari, it's a total misfit of personality and Ferrari actually consider that as a factor. It's not like Hulk is a stereotypical cheap-talking, womanizer Italian neither but he's better than funeral-personified Paul. Even if Paul's probably just about slightly the better driver.

Force India test driver Jules Bianchi is aiming to be promoted to race driver next season,
If he'll get a seat in F1, I think it will be in Force India. Bianchi´s manager is Nicholas Todt,
(same as Felipe Massa). Couldn´t it be possible that they (Ferrari, Force India) agreed
on something that leads to Hulkenberg or di Resta will replace Massa, and Bianchi drive for
Force India in 2013?

No, Jules is more likely to get a seat at Sauber. Those Force India drivers will not end up at Ferrari next year.

No, Jules is more likely to get a seat at Sauber. Those Force India drivers will not end up at Ferrari next year.

Maybe, maybe not...to me it doesn't fit this silly season puzzle. but it fits with a FI driver to replace Massa.
I wonder why it take so long to announce if Massa will stay or not ?
What are the Ferrari management waiting for ? ...A podium finish of Massa ? The end of the season ? Felipe´s reparing bill ?

Edited by Lotusseven, 01 October 2012 - 12:32.

Not if Vettel is supposed to be joining in 2014