Who will get the chance at Ferrari?

The site is not to be trusted, two days ago it wrote it's Massa or Kimi who gets the seat lol. I myself think Massa will continue and would be surprised to see him replaced with Hulkenberg who is ok but nothing special.

Ferrari primarily want nothing special, they primarily want a driver capable of supporting Alonso, Stefano Domenicali have said as much. It would be very difficult to get both, because drivers that are recognized as something special do not have to settle for stop gap deal as firm #2, which is the case if Ferrari actually have Vettel lined up.

Let's be honest - if you (or me) were Hulk you'd take such opportunity without a second of hesitation. A year in Ferrari could rejuvenate his career and reputation. As well as bury it though.

It could be his only chance to win a race, ever (well if Alonso DNFs or something). Plus it's driving for Ferrari, the peak of any career. Any young driver would take it. Apart probably from Pérez but that was because he had a McLaren offer that was longterm, and where he didn't have to play such a clear 2nd driver role. That is a huge luxury and the only way you could refuse such a move.

Let's be honest - if you (or me) were Hulk you'd take such opportunity without a second of hesitation. A year in Ferrari could rejuvenate his career and reputation. As well as bury it though.

Of course he has to do it, he faces a F1 future, that is not even certain, driving for midfield teams, and suddenly there´s the chance to drive for the most historic team in F1, u take it, it could end up in a Kovalainen-McLaren type of season, but u have to take the risk.

None of that matters in the context of Ferrari's stated reason for not hiring Perez. In terms of experience Hulk is not a step up from Perez.

No team ever says "XY doesn't fit into our commercial plans", yet it happens. As you know, I presume. "Lack of experience" can be code for almost everything.

This goes the other way round too, there's good probability that Perez' sponsor relations fit rather well with McLaren, yet you won't hear them stating that as a reason to sign him.

Edited by as65p, 02 October 2012 - 09:15.

Of course he has to do it, he faces a F1 future, that is not even certain, driving for midfield teams, and suddenly there´s the chance to drive for the most historic team in F1, u take it, it could end up in a Kovalainen-McLaren type of season, but u have to take the risk.

Like Fisichella?

It would be very strange if Ferrari replace Massa with Hulkenberg, who has scored 31 points this season and is as inexperienced as Perez, who is beating Massa in an inferior car. Perez brings a lot of financial backing with him, too.

Ferrari missed their opportunity to get Perez and are now stuck with Massa for another season. I have a suspicion that they offered Perez the seat with #2 status and Perez turned it down, hence the 'inexperienced' tag Ferrari attached to Perez.

Alonso is a brilliant driver but his reluctance to accept a competitive team mate is going to continue to be an issue for Ferrari in terms of getting the WCC. Massa is the best they can hope for at the moment.

Alonso is a brilliant driver but his reluctance to accept a competitive team mate is going to continue to be an issue for Ferrari in terms of getting the WCC. Massa is the best they can hope for at the moment.

Source?

Hulkenberg already signed with Ferrari.

http://www.f1passion...be-gia-firmato/

and the same with Schumi.

http://www.f1-direct...p?info-f1=13169

Gotta love this rumors or facts in some cases, from "secret sources".

Like Fisichella?

No, not like Fisichella, he was 36 years old when he drove for Ferrari, he was at the end of his career, he arrived there just for a few races at the end of the season, and in an average car that Ferrar stopped its evolution even before Fisichella arrived.

It was more of a farewell move for him rather than a career building move.

So definitely not the same scenario.

No team ever says "XY doesn't fit into our commercial plans", yet it happens. As you know, I presume. "Lack of experience" can be code for almost everything.

This goes the other way round too, there's good probability that Perez' sponsor relations fit rather well with McLaren, yet you won't hear them stating that as a reason to sign him.

Whether it's code or not just does not matter. If they passed on Perez because he lacks experience and then hire a driver who has no more experience their words just make the team look silly.

Whether it's code or not just does not matter. If they passed on Perez because he lacks experience and then hire a driver who has no more experience their words just make the team look silly.

Big deal, eh? If you so like to see it that way, I'm not going to convince you otherwise, I guess.

Alonso would surely be hard to beat but he wouldn't trash Vettel,Hamilton or Kimi for that matter. He didn't trash Hamilton back in 2007 and just because he is now driving better than ever doesn't mean he would trash him now...actually if some as competitive driver as Alonso would join him, it would put him under more pressure and he would start making mistakes as he did back in 2007.

Lewis and vettel will not join so why even discuss them. Alonso would trash Kimi no questions, he will have his car issues ..
Kimi can only excel when the car perfectly suits him and I doubt he would always get that ... He and and Alonso have two different driving styles, and now with Alonso I doubt they would go out of their way to make a car that suits kimi and that Alonso does not like..
Ferrari is Alonso's territory now... Another driver would have to get on with the program, don't complaint about the car and drive the wheels off of it and match Alonso with it... The only one I can see doing that is Lewis to be honest.

Another Formula One legend has thrown his hat into the ring to replace Massa:

https://twitter.com/takiinoue

No team ever says "XY doesn't fit into our commercial plans", yet it happens. As you know, I presume. "Lack of experience" can be code for almost everything.

This goes the other way round too, there's good probability that Perez' sponsor relations fit rather well with McLaren, yet you won't hear them stating that as a reason to sign him.

True, however we know that Santander do play a part in this.

So look to see who would Santander prefer?

Massa, Santander's biggest market is Brazil and that is their highest profit base.

Another alternative would be Bruno Senna.

Next up would be Paul di Resta with the UK being the next highest.

Then it would be Jaime Alguersuari being Spanish

Then it would be Sergio Perez for Mexico (they've had a massive increase with shares in Mexico in the last few weeks).

Then it would be Nico Hulkenberg.

Now I'm looking at the realistic options options for the available drivers. But that is based on market share without taking other things into consideration. Hiring a big name such as Schumacher could overcome that due to being so high profile.

The majority of that list could be wiped out. Especially with the consideration that Luca said Sergio was not experienced enough unless there were other reasons behind it (which is what I personally suspect and it isn't to do with joining Mclaren).

So lets shorten the list. Santander also sponsor Mclaren, their bases covered are Spain (Alonso), UK (Button), Mexico (Perez).

That also rules out Jaime as they don't need another Spanish driver. Likewise I'd say the same with Paul. The UK website is based upon Mclaren. I think it might be a clash having 2 British poster boys from 2 different teams.

That narrows it down to 3 (excluding Michael).

Massa, Senna and Hulkenberg.

If there is a deal between Vettel and Ferrari for either 2014 or 2015, then it is down to which of these drivers are prepared to drive as a potential number 2 driver for the maximum of 2 years (potentially only one) who a) gives the biggest market exposure to Santander b) Also has to bring home solid results to aim for the WCC.

Not sure whether Bruno's results are enough to turn Ferrari's heads, he hasn't been mentioned anywhere.

So using the Santander business model I've narrowed it down to the 2 names that are being touted in the press.

Massa is going to have to take a paycut, he is currently one of the highest paid drivers on the grid. I don't think he can justify such a high salary with the results.

Moving away from the business model of Santander, I see that playing number 2 to Alonso actually might not be the career suicide many think. If a driver is confident enough in his own abilities and can look a bit further ahead then he could be in a prime position. This is where I see Hulkenberg playing the game. There is a potential Red Bull seat up for grabs in 2014. Well there is one as Mark only works on 1 year contracts, so potentially 2 seats. Hulkenberg would not need to beat Alonso, just stay close to him and play the team game. Then get friendly with Horner and Marko.

As both Di Resta and Hulkenberg are being touted, my guess that Hulkenberg would be the better candidate to play the waiting game. That is just how I perceive him from the way he comes across on TV. I am only going by that assumpion.

Personally, I'd love to see Michael come back home, but I'm not so sure of what the terms would be and whether he would be prepared to have a low salary in a high paying team. A low salary at somewhere like Sauber would be expected and not an insult. At a team like Ferrari, that is a different matter.

If they haven't been impressed by Perez I can't imagine them being impressed by Di Resta or Hulkenberg either though, so I agree with massa_f1 that those rumors seem very unlikely to be true.

Just because you feel that way doesn't mean they do as well.

I think the 'lack of experience' argument was just corporate speak. Either it was what as65 was saying about him not being a fit in other ways, or they just didn't want to come out and say that he wasn't good enough, which is understandable. Yes, hiring Hulkenberg would make them look a bit silly in light of what they said, but teams say stuff they dont mean all the time. All the freakin time.

"We need to have a driver that respects Ferrari and the tradition of this team. We work for the team and the red cars. This is the first priority."

These words says it all. Ferrari are looking for a no.2 driver that will respect the order of things at Ferrari. For that purpose Hulkenberg should be much more submissive than Di Resta who is very strong worded in proving himself on the race track.

"We need to have a driver that respects Ferrari and the tradition of this team. We work for the team and the red cars. This is the first priority."

These words says it all. Ferrari are looking for a no.2 driver that will respect the order of things at Ferrari. For that purpose Hulkenberg should be much more submissive than Di Resta who is very strong worded in proving himself on the race track.

People always just seem to see what they want to see. Thats not what that statement says at all. It may imply that if a driver is called upon to be a team player, they expect them to follow orders and do what is best for the team before themselves, but that doesn't mean they are looking for a no.2 specifically. If a driver came in, fought for the championship and Alonso has a bad season or something and finds himself out of that fight, they would expect Alonso to do whats best for the team as well. It goes both ways.

I mean, realistically, Ferrari probably expect Alonso to get the better of pretty much whoever is in the other seat next year, but it doesn't mean they aren't going to be given a fair crack at it, and it doesn't mean that they're going to be ordering Alonso past at every opportunity from the start of the season unlike what a lot of people think. Its a likely scenario that Alonso's teammate next year, be it Massa or whoever else, falls behind Alonso in the title fight and so Ferrari would want to make it clear that when the time comes, there should be no complaining or shock about the team wanting to do whats best for their title hopes.

Everyone always makes way too much about how things are done at Ferrari, but they've been completely fair about things for a while now. At least going back to 2007. Its completely up to the driver whether or not they get relegated to a no.2 position.

I have to agree with F1ultimate and profoundly disagree with seanspeed :

In their search for a replacement for Massa, Ferrari are already starting to pay the price of their idolic worship of Alonso and their long-term No1 and No2 driver strategy.

Eddie Irvine was the perfect foil for Michael Schumacher : For Eddie, career success was always secondary to the money, the girls and the Ferrari lifestyle and he took full advantage of all three and who could blame him ? Yet even Eddie got fed up in the end and went to Jaguar for oodles of cash and the chance to be a number 1 driver.

Ferrari couldn't get Webber for 2013 because he wouldn't accept No 2 status and couldn't try for Hamilton because of an Alonso veto.

I don't believe di Montezemolo when he said that Perez is too inexperienced for Ferrari : what Alonso was saying last week was absolutely clear : Ferrari are looking for a No 2 driver and it's obvious that a talented driver like Perez wouldn't want to play second fiddle to anyone. Why would he consider going to Ferrari when equal No 1 status is available at McLaren ?

It's even more unlikely that anyone quick would sign for Ferrari if only a one year deal was on offer because there really is an under-the-table arrangement already in place with Vettel for 2014

Personally, I doubt that Vettel will move there until Alonso has retired, for all the same reasons.

Ross Brawn has gone out of his way to praise Lewis Hamilton for making no request for any kind of special treatment in his contract negotiations with the team : How refreshing and highly commendable.

What a contrast with Ferrari : : I'm sure that No 1 status was the very first thing on the agenda in negotiations between Alonso and Ferrari.

Edited by EVO2, 02 October 2012 - 17:05.

I have to agree with F1ultimate and profoundly disagree with seanspeed :

In their search for a replacement for Massa, Ferrari are already starting to pay the price of their idolic worship of Alonso and their long-term No1 and No2 driver strategy.

Eddie Irvine was the perfect foil for Michael Schumacher : For Eddie, career success was always secondary to the money, the girls and the Ferrari lifestyle and he took full advantage of all three and who could blame him ? Yet even Eddie got fed up in the end and went to Jaguar for oodles of cash and the chance to be a number 1 driver.

Ferrari couldn't get Webber for 2013 because he wouldn't accept No 2 status and couldn't try for Hamilton because of an Alonso veto.

I don't believe di Montezemolo when he said that Perez is too inexperienced for Ferrari : what Alonso was saying last week was absolutely clear : Ferrari are looking for a No 2 driver and it's obvious that a talented driver like Perez wouldn't want to play second fiddle to anyone. Why would he consider going to Ferrari when equal No 1 status is available at McLaren ?

It's even more unlikely that anyone quick would sign for Ferrari if only a one year deal was on offer because there really is an under-the-table arrangement already in place with Vettel for 2014

Personally, I doubt that Vettel will move there until Alonso has retired, for all the same reasons.

Ross Brawn has gone out of his way to praise Lewis Hamilton for making no request for any kind of special treatment in his contract negotiations with the team : How refreshing and highly commendable.

What a contrast with Ferrari : : I'm sure that No 1 status was the very first thing on the agenda in negotiations between Alonso and Ferrari.

To make it easier for myself, I've just bolded all the parts that aren't facts, but mere speculation or just plain made up.

Its very obvious you've already had your mind made up about Ferrari and just believe any little scrap of justification, no matter how thin or frail it may be, that supports your preconceived notion. Sorry if I dont find a post like yours convincing in the least.

People act like Ferrari can just write 'no.1' in a contract and all the sudden they're a top driver and can smash their teammate. It makes much more sense that a driver earns any no.1 status they get through performances and results rather than something written in a contract. Some people just conveniently block out 2007-2009 from their minds, cuz its kind of terribly inconvenient for anybody who believes ^that sort of stuff. But again, too many people believe what they want to believe rather than what fits reality.

Edited by Seanspeed, 02 October 2012 - 17:30.

Tony Dodgins subscriber article.

- Vettel's rumoured move to Ferrari in 2014 could be motivated by the uncertainty currently surrounding the new engine regulations, and Renault perhaps withdrawing from the sport if the V6 turbos are dropped. He may sign/have signed an option for Ferrari as an "insurance policy". Thus Ferrari are looking for a deal for 2013 only with the second driver.
- Alonso doesn't mind who the team's second driver is, just as long as it's not Hamilton!
- Webber and Di Resta have been involved in talks with Ferrari earlier in the year, but both were reluctant to sign one-year deals.
- That leaves Hulkenberg as the main candidate to replace Massa. "If [Hulkenberg signing for 2013] hasn't happened already, I think it will."

True, however we know that Santander do play a part in this.

So look to see who would Santander prefer?

Massa, Santander's biggest market is Brazil and that is their highest profit base.

Another alternative would be Bruno Senna.

Next up would be Paul di Resta with the UK being the next highest.

Then it would be Jaime Alguersuari being Spanish

Then it would be Sergio Perez for Mexico (they've had a massive increase with shares in Mexico in the last few weeks).

Then it would be Nico Hulkenberg.

Now I'm looking at the realistic options options for the available drivers. But that is based on market share without taking other things into consideration. Hiring a big name such as Schumacher could overcome that due to being so high profile.

The majority of that list could be wiped out. Especially with the consideration that Luca said Sergio was not experienced enough unless there were other reasons behind it (which is what I personally suspect and it isn't to do with joining Mclaren).

So lets shorten the list. Santander also sponsor Mclaren, their bases covered are Spain (Alonso), UK (Button), Mexico (Perez).

That also rules out Jaime as they don't need another Spanish driver. Likewise I'd say the same with Paul. The UK website is based upon Mclaren. I think it might be a clash having 2 British poster boys from 2 different teams.

That narrows it down to 3 (excluding Michael).

Massa, Senna and Hulkenberg.

If there is a deal between Vettel and Ferrari for either 2014 or 2015, then it is down to which of these drivers are prepared to drive as a potential number 2 driver for the maximum of 2 years (potentially only one) who a) gives the biggest market exposure to Santander b) Also has to bring home solid results to aim for the WCC.

Not sure whether Bruno's results are enough to turn Ferrari's heads, he hasn't been mentioned anywhere.

So using the Santander business model I've narrowed it down to the 2 names that are being touted in the press.

Massa is going to have to take a paycut, he is currently one of the highest paid drivers on the grid. I don't think he can justify such a high salary with the results.

Wow, you really thought this through, didn't you?

Moving away from the business model of Santander, I see that playing number 2 to Alonso actually might not be the career suicide many think. If a driver is confident enough in his own abilities and can look a bit further ahead then he could be in a prime position. This is where I see Hulkenberg playing the game. There is a potential Red Bull seat up for grabs in 2014. Well there is one as Mark only works on 1 year contracts, so potentially 2 seats. Hulkenberg would not need to beat Alonso, just stay close to him and play the team game. Then get friendly with Horner and Marko.

As both Di Resta and Hulkenberg are being touted, my guess that Hulkenberg would be the better candidate to play the waiting game. That is just how I perceive him from the way he comes across on TV. I am only going by that assumpion.

I'd even go a step further, any driver coming in at Ferrari and managing to get close to Alonso in a reasonable time frame (say, 4 to 6 races), then stay close, even outqualify him frequently, would get a massive boost in paddock opinion. That (improving all the time, being regularily close to Alonso in qualifying and race pace) is all do-able, even if peoples worst assumptions about Alonsos no.1 status are true. Actually, the icing on the cake would be if that driver encountered a Hockenheim 2010 situation, being forced to move over. I'm sure that in such a scenario would get touted as the next big thing, only held back by evil Alonso & Ferrari team orders.

So indeed, for a driver at Hülkenbergs/diRestas/etc. stage of their careers, they have all opportunities to win massively by going up against FA in 2013. Should they perform Massa-like, however, then well, they are probably not as good as expected anyway.

Personally, I'd love to see Michael come back home, but I'm not so sure of what the terms would be and whether he would be prepared to have a low salary in a high paying team. A low salary at somewhere like Sauber would be expected and not an insult. At a team like Ferrari, that is a different matter.

I don't see that at all as a possibility. In all likelihood, and as could be seen in races like Monza 2011 vs. Hamilton, MS' ambition is still as burning as it was 20 years ago, it's only the ability that, quite naturally, has faded over the years. Which means a sure recipe for trouble in the rare cases MS would find himself in front of Alonso due to whatever circumstances. Understandably so from his point of view, even. I know that in his place, I would grab any opportunity with both hands to show the guy who de-throned me in the mid-2000s, regardless of team interest or common sense. Unless they see a massive publicity benefit (possible), I can't see Ferrari running that kind of risk on purpose.

I don't see that at all as a possibility. In all likelihood, and as could be seen in races like Monza 2011 vs. Hamilton, MS' ambition is still as burning as it was 20 years ago, it's only the ability that, quite naturally, has faded over the years. Which means a sure recipe for trouble in the rare cases MS would find himself in front of Alonso due to whatever circumstances. Understandably so from his point of view, even. I know that in his place, I would grab any opportunity with both hands to show the guy who de-throned me in the mid-2000s, regardless of team interest or common sense. Unless they see a massive publicity benefit (possible), I can't see Ferrari running that kind of risk on purpose.

Schumacher's agenda would be to (a) win GPs and (b) compete for the WDC. This is absolutely fine if he is able to do part (b). If he can't do part (b), then he would need, at some part of the season, to support Alonso's challenge. In perhaps his last handful of GPs, he would not be encouraged, lets say, to drive for himself. I suspect there would be big trouble in that scenario.

I think MS is carefully examining all his options for continuing in the sport because he regrets not doing that in 2006/7. It may be that he will not like what is available to him, but at least he will have fully explored the possibilities. He has made the question of his future separate to all the factors that played into the Mercedes decision and is left with the simple matter of deciding whether any drive available to him is worth continuing for.

If it's not Massa, it will be Hulkenberg.

Oh come on, you must be joking right? At least Massa doesn't crash into other cars because of low responsiveness. Schumachers days are over, he's too old which is proven by his lack of attention when cars in front of him make sudden movements.

Agreed , I also doubt that he would be capable of mastering the Ferrari unless its handling qualities are improved next year.

Unquestionably his response times are suffering significantly but his vindictive driving capabilities are still abundant.

Saladin

Schumacher's agenda would be to (a) win GPs and (b) compete for the WDC. This is absolutely fine if he is able to do part (b). If he can't do part (b), then he would need, at some part of the season, to support Alonso's challenge. In perhaps his last handful of GPs, he would not be encouraged, lets say, to drive for himself. I suspect there would be big trouble in that scenario.

Yep.

I think MS is carefully examining all his options for continuing in the sport because he regrets not doing that in 2006/7. It may be that he will not like what is available to him, but at least he will have fully explored the possibilities. He has made the question of his future separate to all the factors that played into the Mercedes decision and is left with the simple matter of deciding whether any drive available to him is worth continuing for.

I suspect something like that too, but the trivial fact is, whatever he does now won't change the possible mistakes he made back then.

I actually hope Michael Schumacher goest to Ferrari. Pack of all time evil team would be complete: Two F1's history's most dirtiest drivers ever in F1's history's dirtiest team ever.

TP: Briatore.

Dream team of evil.

Dream team of evil would be M. Schumacher + A. Prost + F. Briatore

Why don't they call Rubens back?

He is perfect.
- Botin will be thrilled and bless the move
- Santander will be happy
- Brazil will go nuts (even more $ for the bank)
- Fred will be happy, as he wrote the "Ferrari tradition" book
- Rubens wants to come back in any case.
- He'll be cheaper than Massa
- He'll contribute to WCC more than Massa
- He may even come back for a partial season - more happiness for Fred
- Retain Massa as a test driver (bonus happiness for both Santander and Brazil)
- LdM & Staff know him.
- He knows ways and means of Ferrari - less transition time
- probably he can start tomorrow.
- Ferrari PR already knows him to start the spin tomorrow

No brainer.

Dream team of evil would be M. Schumacher + A. Prost + F. Briatore

Prost evil? I'd replace him with Piquet Sr. Just ask Nigel.

Prost evil? I'd replace him with Piquet Sr. Just ask Nigel.

Surely then you'd have Benetton at the end of '91.

What a contrast with Ferrari : : I'm sure that No 1 status was the very first thing on the agenda in negotiations between Alonso and Ferrari.

So we have you "being sure" vs. the evidence of Alonso battling Massa (and losing points a few times) for the first half of 2010.

Tough call.

According to some articles floating about there are three people on the short list for Ferrari, Massa, Hilkenberg and Di Resta.
What I find odd is that Ferrari are looking at pinching drivers from Force India who at some points were considered to be a McLaren junior team, whereas McLaren pinched it's new driver from Sauber, often considered to be a Ferrari junior team.

Why don't they call Rubens back?

- Retain Massa as a test driver (bonus happiness for both Santander and Brazil)

made my day, thank you

Just because you feel that way doesn't mean they do as well.

I think the 'lack of experience' argument was just corporate speak. Either it was what as65 was saying about him not being a fit in other ways, or they just didn't want to come out and say that he wasn't good enough, which is understandable. Yes, hiring Hulkenberg would make them look a bit silly in light of what they said, but teams say stuff they dont mean all the time. All the freakin time.

I think the lack of experiance comments could have easily been because Ferrari alreay knew that Perez was off to McMerc weeks/months ago, so they were putting a positive spin on it.

Prost evil? I'd replace him with Piquet Sr. Just ask Nigel.

And compared with Piquet, Senna is/was far more evil, at least on track. In the garage box and motorhomes Piquet may have been more bastardish.

But for track behaviour: Schuey & Senna & Briatore is my ultimate crimi-team


henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 October 2012 - 07:36.

According to some articles floating about there are three people on the short list for Ferrari, Massa, Hilkenberg and Di Resta.
What I find odd is that Ferrari are looking at pinching drivers from Force India who at some points were considered to be a McLaren junior team, whereas McLaren pinched it's new driver from Sauber, often considered to be a Ferrari junior team.

perhaps both Ferrari & McLaren learned from `their junior team` why not to take the drivers from that team and `dump` them within the opponents team instead.....


Henri

Prost evil? I'd replace him with Piquet Sr. Just ask Nigel.

ask Nigel about Prost or read his biography and see what he writes about Prost.

ask Nigel about Prost or read his biography and see what he writes about Prost.

Yeah, it's a load of bitter tripe.

I think the lack of experiance comments could have easily been because Ferrari alreay knew that Perez was off to McMerc weeks/months ago, so they were putting a positive spin on it.

Possible, but they'd been saying since earlier in the season that Perez wasn't on the cards for a Ferrari ride anytime soon. That could have been a response to people saying to put him in before the season ends, but I dont think Ferrari were quite as impressed with Perez as Mclaren were....

Yeah, it's a load of bitter tripe.

Prost = Mr. Manipulator

Possible, but they'd been saying since earlier in the season that Perez wasn't on the cards for a Ferrari ride anytime soon. That could have been a response to people saying to put him in before the season ends, but I dont think Ferrari were quite as impressed with Perez as Mclaren were....

Ironic as no one else was impressed about Massa other than Ferrari.

Ironic as no one else was impressed about Massa other than Ferrari.

Very true. Perhaps Ferrari learned something by that?

Ironic as no one else was impressed about Massa other than Ferrari.

The most ironic thing is that Ferrari has access to both driver's telemetry to backup their judgement. Everyone else just uses their perception and opinion.

Edited by fabr68, 03 October 2012 - 16:23.

Possible, but they'd been saying since earlier in the season that Perez wasn't on the cards for a Ferrari ride anytime soon. That could have been a response to people saying to put him in before the season ends, but I dont think Ferrari were quite as impressed with Perez as Mclaren were....

Yup Autosprint wrote that Ferrari was not impressed on Perez pace at test he did together with Bianchi, both drove F60 fom 2009 season and Bianchi was almost half a second faster on direct comparison. Ferrari was surprised that McLaren took Perez but even if they wold have known McLaren were after him they wouldn't have taken him.

Why don't they call Rubens back?

He is perfect.
- Botin will be thrilled and bless the move
- Santander will be happy
- Brazil will go nuts (even more $ for the bank)
- Fred will be happy, as he wrote the "Ferrari tradition" book
- Rubens wants to come back in any case.
- He'll be cheaper than Massa
- He'll contribute to WCC more than Massa
- He may even come back for a partial season - more happiness for Fred
- Retain Massa as a test driver (bonus happiness for both Santander and Brazil)
- LdM & Staff know him.
- He knows ways and means of Ferrari - less transition time
- probably he can start tomorrow.
- Ferrari PR already knows him to start the spin tomorrow

No brainer.

Santander must be nuts if they think it's good for then keeping Massa or Rubens as a 2nd driver in Ferrari. The only thing Santander achieve is bad press.

I do think Perez is making most of these ridiculous tyres, once or if Pirelli get a grip (mind the pun) and at least produce better tyres the game might be up for him in terms of outright pace. Perez's hope is that he can always one stop his way to victory whilst everyone else needs to make two, and that McLaren give him a car to do so. Which should be rather easy seeing as they have the other tyre man in the other garage next to him.

So maybe Ferrari do know what they're thinking of when they think they aren't that impressed with Perez' pace. It'll be interesting either way to see how he performs in the McLaren, I think he'll do a better job than Heikki at least.

It is abit of a tyres game, and it's a shame to see the raw, outright pace drivers get beaten constantly by the careful nurdlers.

Edited by King Six, 03 October 2012 - 17:27.

It is abit of a tyres game, and it's a shame to see the raw, outright pace drivers get beaten constantly by the careful nurdlers.

They're not. It only happens once in a while.

So we have you "being sure" vs. the evidence of Alonso battling Massa (and losing points a few times) for the first half of 2010.

Tough call.

Dream team of evil, Ferrari? What about that team that were fined 100 million dollars, and who told lies to the stewards?

But in all seriousness, I would love Schumacher at Ferrari.

The most ironic thing is that Ferrari has access to both driver's telemetry to backup their judgement. Everyone else just uses their perception and opinion.

I'd be very curious to know if they can access Sauber data like it's an open book, it would be a good question for a journo to ask.. that's for Perez but in general I would be curious to know the degree of access with any of the various technical or driver development partnerships.

Also, have you guys read that?

http://www.jamesalle...ho-bothers-him/

lots of blabbering, but a couple of quotes that might stick around

Also, have you guys read that?

http://www.jamesalle...ho-bothers-him/

lots of blabbering, but a couple of quotes that might stick around

I read that article.

Does that imply the rumoured Vettel (a driver that can bother Alons) move to Ferrari in 2014 is actually conditional on whether Alonso is able to win the title this year? Obviously they cannot wait until end of 2013 to decide, so 2012 is the cut off point?

I suspect that if Alonso wins the title this year, then he can dictate the teammate he wants for 2014 (no Vettel), but if he fails to do it this year, then this would trigger a clause in their contracts and Ferrari can bring in Vettel in 2014 to do the job.

for 2013, i think Alonso doesn't really have a say on the decision as Montezelmolo says (unless Ferrari is willing to wait until end of season to see who win the title), Ferrari will make the decision and then notify Alonso. So if they want, they can bring back Schumacher.