Ive been thinking about this a lot, and as much as it pains me as a Webber fan to suggest it, is it time for Webber to throw his lot in behind Vettel's third championship push?
Webber might well get a good start and lead Vettel tomorrow, but are the 7 points between first and second critical enough that Red Bull and Vettel should expect Webber to voluntarily give up a win at this point of the season should he find himself in front near the end?
Should Webber do a Grosjean and declare he's going to back his teammate, or should Webber fight a bit longer given he mathematically is still in with a shout.
Has the time come for Webber to start racing for Vettel's championship?
Started by
NotSoSilentBob
, Oct 06 2012 15:51
277 replies to this topic
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#2
Realyn
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:00
Imho Webber is realistic enough to know that his shot is gone. Just like after Korea 2010.
#3
RockyRaccoon68
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:02
He should move over but I don't think he would...that said I also don't think he will be ahead of Vettel on pace between now and the end of the season!
#4
bub
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:10
No, he isn't far enough behind imo. The Ferrari doesn't look great, Vettel could have DNF's etc...
Edited by bub, 06 October 2012 - 16:20.
#5
OneAndOnly
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:14
For Horner, Marko and Co. that time has come when he signed the contract with RBR ;) .
#7
Boxerevo
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:19
I think Vettel again has Webber under control,so the only help will be just staying close to seb.
Edited by Boxerevo, 06 October 2012 - 16:20.
#8
Afterburner
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:21
No. He shouldn't back Vettel as long as he's still mathematically in contention. I would be disappointed if he didn't challenge Vettel this race.
#9
DarthWillie
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:23
No, i'm a Vettel fan but this is way to early. Perhaps if webber cannot mathematical win it, but not now.
#10
garoidb
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:23
Ive been thinking about this a lot, and as much as it pains me as a Webber fan to suggest it, is it time for Webber to throw his lot in behind Vettel's third championship push?
Webber might well get a good start and lead Vettel tomorrow, but are the 7 points between first and second critical enough that Red Bull and Vettel should expect Webber to voluntarily give up a win at this point of the season should he find himself in front near the end?
Should Webber do a Grosjean and declare he's going to back his teammate, or should Webber fight a bit longer given he mathematically is still in with a shout.
It would be tricky to persuade Mark, as Seb was allowed to race for himself right through 2010 even when Mark was better placed to win the championship. He therefore might feel that the same should apply now. Personally, I am not opposed to team orders and this one is a borderline situation. On balance, I would probably instruct Mark to follow Seb home, but be open to changing that if the 1-2 was threatened by the pace of another driver.
#12
ayali
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:34
Webber should and will do as he's told by Horner and Marko
If he leads in front of Vettel an unfavorable timed pitstop or a little hiccup should restore the preferred order
Webber also knows he's not going to win WDC this year and his contract probably includes a nice bonus if WDC or WCC is won by his team
If he leads in front of Vettel an unfavorable timed pitstop or a little hiccup should restore the preferred order
Webber also knows he's not going to win WDC this year and his contract probably includes a nice bonus if WDC or WCC is won by his team
#13
AvranaKern
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:58
Why can't? He doesn't need to beat Vettel to help him. Just as he did in Japan, he can trail Vettel to the finish line robbing points from his rivals. He showed today he can do it. So, to echo, why not?Can he?
#14
Sakae
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:59
As Vettel's fan I have only one request for Webber, and that is, in last six races keep Alonso behind him. He can race Vettel as much as he wants to, I do not care, but at the finish line be ahead of Alonso. Vettel will take care about himself from what I have seen in past three or four years.
#15
WatchingF1since4yearsold
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:19
Webber probably won't want to give up till it's mathematically impossible for him to win.
#16
Sinceref189
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:24
Bane " Off Coursee "
Edited by Sinceref189, 06 October 2012 - 17:24.
#17
sailor
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:27
In 2010 , webber was leading Vettel.Ive been thinking about this a lot, and as much as it pains me as a Webber fan to suggest it, is it time for Webber to throw his lot in behind Vettel's third championship push?
Webber might well get a good start and lead Vettel tomorrow, but are the 7 points between first and second critical enough that Red Bull and Vettel should expect Webber to voluntarily give up a win at this point of the season should he find himself in front near the end?
Should Webber do a Grosjean and declare he's going to back his teammate, or should Webber fight a bit longer given he mathematically is still in with a shout.
Did Seb play the role as you are suggesting
#18
NotSoSilentBob
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:31
No, but in 2010 (from memory) it was much closer than this with 6 to go, and another driver didn't have a 29 point lead.
If they're going to do it, it needs to be decided now when there's time and opportunity to make it work out.
If they're going to do it, it needs to be decided now when there's time and opportunity to make it work out.
#19
sailor
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:37
Even then, i would say no.No, but in 2010 (from memory) it was much closer than this with 6 to go, and another driver didn't have a 29 point lead.
If they're going to do it, it needs to be decided now when there's time and opportunity to make it work out.
It just breaks the morale of the driver who is still in the hunt to know that he lost the title as soon as the team popped the question.
After that , i would be surprised that the said driver will even be in a postion to support. Live example Massa
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#20
apoka
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:42
It is a bit different. In 2010, Webber was in front of him since Seb lost a lot of points due to mechanical issues, but was overall faster. So even when he was behind in points, he still had a good/similar chance to win the WDC. In the current situation, Vettel has a much higher WDC chance than Webber. I don't know what RB should do or not [*], but just want to point out that point differences do not always give the full picture. It's more the estimated probability of a driver winning the WDC that matters.In 2010 , webber was leading Vettel.
Did Seb play the role as you are suggesting
[*] A lot depends on the context. For instance, imagine Vettel loses a position to Webber, because of a poor pit stop. In that case, they may be inclined to let Webber return his position if Vettel is faster. The same could happen if they are on different strategies, which require "free air" to work. In contrast, if Webber is leading Vettel by a good margin on merit (which I think won't happen), they will likely just let him win despite the WDC.
#21
NotSoSilentBob
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:50
.....they will likely just let him win....
#22
BullHead
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:51
Not yet. But Mark always seems to disappoint this half of the season...
#23
KnucklesAgain
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:17
The time to start racing for the WDC would have been March 16. Seems a bit late now.
Edit: Oh you mean not race for himself but help Vettel. Yeah I guess.
Edit: Oh you mean not race for himself but help Vettel. Yeah I guess.
Edited by KnucklesAgain, 06 October 2012 - 18:18.
#24
ArkZ
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:26
Vettel 165
Webber 132
There is no big difference between them, Mark is still in title hunt.
Webber 132
There is no big difference between them, Mark is still in title hunt.
#25
MrPodium
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:28
Not yet. But Mark always seems to disappoint this half of the season...
Agreed. I think it's still too close for Webber to yield. Whether RedBull management see it this way is a different matter altogether.
#26
jals99
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:31
The time has come for Webber to retire from F1 
#27
jeze
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:31
No. He's not fast enough to beat him anyway.
#28
Sakae
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:48
Deficit to Alonso (194) is 62 points. How is he planning that title hunt in next six races? Having said that, Vettel will take care of himself as far as I could see in years past; Webber never cooperated, and why start now?Vettel 165
Webber 132
There is no big difference between them, Mark is still in title hunt.
#29
Seanspeed
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:53
Its also important to note how far away the leader is, too. 196 points. With only 6 races left, thats a hefty gap back to Webber.Vettel 165
Webber 132
There is no big difference between them, Mark is still in title hunt.
Honestly, I wouldn't blame Red Bull if they used team orders at this point. Its a difficult scenario, though.
#30
SunnyENTP
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 19:17
Webber probably won't want to give up till it's mathematically impossible for him to win.
And possible for him to be dumped next year if he does not do as he is told.
#31
PinkZepStones
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 19:21
Vettel 165
Webber 132
There is no big difference between them, Mark is still in title hunt.
Denial is a river in egypt.
#32
Tsarwash
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 19:24
Ask me tomorrow after the race. If Webber scores maximum points and Seb DNF's, then the answer is obviously no. If the opposite happens, then the answer is yes, he probably should. There are six races left, and Webbers chances of winning the WDC is pretty slim but not impossible. Webber is 62 points behind Alonso, and if the lead stretches much further tomorrow then I think that it's time to call it a day and assist Seb.
#33
ClubmanGT
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 19:39
Webber never cooperated, and why start now?
The team has never acted favourable to Mark, so why should be expected to jump on the goodwill wagon single-handedly?
#34
goldenboy
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:18
well considering seb has had dnf's not of his own doing and webber has just been not good enough for a good period of time there, I couldn't blame red bull if they did.
What I think will happen is he will follow vettels gearbox and do nothing remotely stupid but be there to pick up the pieces just in case seb has an issue again, then he has the option of being back in the hunt. To be honest he kinda gave that chance up for the moment by having that slow period.
What I think will happen is he will follow vettels gearbox and do nothing remotely stupid but be there to pick up the pieces just in case seb has an issue again, then he has the option of being back in the hunt. To be honest he kinda gave that chance up for the moment by having that slow period.
#35
garoidb
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:22
well considering seb has had dnf's not of his own doing and webber has just been not good enough for a good period of time there, I couldn't blame red bull if they did.
What I think will happen is he will follow vettels gearbox and do nothing remotely stupid but be there to pick up the pieces just in case seb has an issue again, then he has the option of being back in the hunt. To be honest he kinda gave that chance up for the moment by having that slow period.
I think so too. The only problem is if someone has the pace to challenge them, but that probably won't happen. Even then, it is only really a problem if Vettel is slower than Webber. That is the only scenario in which I can see Mark overtaking Seb.
#36
fisssssi
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Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:54
As I said in the other thread: not a chance in hell.
I'm pretty sure Mark doesn't even want Vettel to have his 3rd championship.
I'm pretty sure Mark doesn't even want Vettel to have his 3rd championship.
#37
NotSoSilentBob
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:23
Doesnt sound like Vettel's going to need the help, but it's time for Webber to pack it in.
#38
Sakae
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:15
Great believe by Webber's fans, but, "where is the beef"?The team has never acted favourable to Mark, so why should be expected to jump on the goodwill wagon single-handedly?
#39
light
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:26
Webber has proved what he can do with a car this year and was looking pretty good after his wins in monaco and silverstone.
Then he signed a new contract and the direction of the car that Adrian newey went in seems to have totally opened up Vettels potential again.
The game was over for Mark in this championship ages ago cos the Vettel-Newey partnership is unbeatable when they get it right.
Then he signed a new contract and the direction of the car that Adrian newey went in seems to have totally opened up Vettels potential again.
The game was over for Mark in this championship ages ago cos the Vettel-Newey partnership is unbeatable when they get it right.
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#40
smoothcrim
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:30
Vettel wont need his help,they just need to both accumulate as many points as possible for the constructors.
#41
karne
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:39
No ****ing way on earth. Vettel would never do it for him so why should he do it for Vettel? Vettel can win the championship on his ****ing own. Surely he's a big boy, doesn't need his hand held for every step of the way? Or maybe he does?
HA! And what about Mark's gearboxes, and KERS, and DRS, and sh*t strategies? Don't get all whiny "oh Vettel had bad luck". Vettel doesn't know what bad luck is!
well considering seb has had dnf's not of his own doing and webber has just been not good enough for a good period of time there, I couldn't blame red bull if they did.
HA! And what about Mark's gearboxes, and KERS, and DRS, and sh*t strategies? Don't get all whiny "oh Vettel had bad luck". Vettel doesn't know what bad luck is!
#42
LiJu914
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:41
It´s always a good sign for SV when karne has another meltdown.
Edited by LiJu914, 07 October 2012 - 09:41.
#43
Sakae
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:44
karne gave me a great business idea. At the EXIT gate after each race I shall open a limonade stand with chill pills. Could be profitable venture.
#45
apoka
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:17
Webber lost more points against Vettel today than expected through no fault of his own. Nevertheless, with a gap of 56 points to Vettel and only 5 races to go, I think he would be instructed to move over if necessary. I don't think it will be necessary though.
#46
krapmeister
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:59
Agree - on current form I don't think Webber will need to be asked to move over...
#47
Kelateboy
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 13:50
They could just release him into the traffic, and we will have another of karne's famous meltdown....Agree - on current form I don't think Webber will need to be asked to move over...
#48
GreenMachine
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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:38
As long as they are both ahead of Alonso, let them fight. Otherwise, Seb gets the nod.
#49
lbennie
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Posted 08 October 2012 - 00:17
it's a bit of a shame as the point deficit that currently exists is mostly due to bad luck/grid penalties/crash bandicoot but yes, he should be playing rear gunner now.
i don't think he will have to though - the way the RB is humming along now.
i don't think he will have to though - the way the RB is humming along now.
#50
Brother Fox
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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:50
If they can repeat Suzuka a couple of times in the remaining races then it should take care of itself
Vettel having a first class weekend, and Webber well in front of Alonso
Vettel having a first class weekend, and Webber well in front of Alonso
