Has the time come for Webber to start racing for Vettel's championship?

but it should be remembered too that without Karthikeyan driving into him, and two alternator failures Vettel would also have 50 points or so more.;)

Edited by goingthedistance, 16 October 2012 - 16:06.

People whining about team orders in a race Vettel first overtakes Webber from the dirty side on the start, then defends from him into the next corner before clearly beating him on pace? Not surprised.

I can't really see Webber accepting a team order to let Vettel through unless maybe for the last race and a deciding move, he doesn't seem to be a team player like that.

No body needs to be that kind of team player except if one is playing for team Alonso.
Irrespective of whether Vettel wins or loses , he will at least take pride in the fact.

Ah but when we start cataloging mechanical failures as well, I think you will see that Mark has suffered about 80% of them (and I think the Karthikeyan incident was at least 50% Seb's fault). There have been an awful lot that have thrown a spanner in his weekend, even if they haven't always been dramatic failures mid-race. Though the front wing falling off in Spain is a near thing!

but it should be remembered too that without Karthikeyan driving into him, and two alternator failures Vettel would also have 50 points or so more.

We can do that for everyone, If Hamilton hadn't had every problem he has he'd probably be sipping piña colada out of Nicole's erm ......'scherzinger' with a 70 point lead at this point.

Alonso too might be ahead of Vettel without two take outs.

It's all ifs and bits that only matter to us fans.

If Webber wanted to fight for the win or fight for the WDC he would have taken that risk anyway, when you are so far behind only finishing in front of your rivals is an option. He decided to keep the second and give Vettel more advantage in the WDC because going for the win he could have ended with nothing and the team very upset. That's called teamwork and both did an excellent job as #1 and #2. And that's what it should be expected from a team fighting for both championships, acting differently would have been stupid. Now, if you think Ferrari is the only team that uses team orders and believe all the BS of Horner and co is up to you.

but how is Alonso and Hamilton relevant in a Vettel vs Webber type of topic, and a discussion about making Webber a gunner from now on is wrong, because of the points lost by misfortune?

We can do that for everyone, If Hamilton hadn't had every problem he has he'd probably be sipping piña colada out of Nicole's erm ......'scherzinger' with a 70 point lead at this point.

Alonso too might be ahead of Vettel without two take outs.

It's all ifs and bits that only matter to us fans.

Hamilton would maybe be there with Seb or above him, not sure. Of course nothing close to 70 points.

One of Alonso's offs was completely his fault and in Spa I can't see him beating Kimi, so that's 10-13 points only. Vettel's alternators alone are 42 points' swing to Alonso, not to mention his other numerous misfortunes (Karthikeyan etc.). So Alonso would be far, far away from Vettel in that scenario.

Mark Webber:"This weekend if I have a chance to win the grand prix I will go for it. Mathematically I have a chance (of the title), so if I'm in the lead this weekend, I'm not pulling over for anyone."

“We won’t be imposing team orders,” team boss Christian Horner said. “Not yet, anyway. “Sebastian has moved into the lead of the title chase and Mark still has a chance of winning this championship.
“I think it would be wrong to impose team orders, while Mark still mathematically has a chance of winning.

Edited by LiJu914, 31 October 2012 - 14:00.

So can we expect team orders from now on?

Of course atm he still has a 2-point-margin that saves him from being mathematically out of the WDC-hunt.
However that doesn´t change the fact, that from now on he will be officially out the equation nonetheless, if a potential teamorder situation occurs.
Example: Mark 1st, Vettel 2nd. If they don´t change positions, Mark will be mathematically out after the race anyway. So they may just as well change positions before that.
The same is true for every other scenario, in which they might be able to change places.

they are fine this year, met them in person in melbourne, and they were quite chummy indeed. was a bit of an eye opener.

Nope. As long as Webber is mathematically in the hunt he should be allowed to fight. Obviously, when he's no longer in the hunt then yes, assistance time. Vettel probably wouldn't want help anyway.

But thats not how the media and forums portray it, so you must be wrong

How's about we just let them race and see what happens?

We already saw what happened, Webber didn't fight for position with Vettel in Korea or India.

Why not?

Do you really think he would have acted the same way if the car he was fighting with in the first corner of both GPs wasn't Vettel's? And before someone suggest the contrary I think he did what he had to do, nothing wrong. I just find amusing that people are discussing when he's going to start helping Vettel when it's obvious he already has.

Edited by LiJu914, 01 November 2012 - 13:16.

Huh?

In Korea Vettel accelerated faster and then had the inside of the corner. Mark tried to re-overtake him after the following straight, but Vettel shut the door.

What do you expect them to do, which you won´t consider as help? Banging wheels or a "Turkey-revival"?

Vettel accelerated faster? BS.

Webber had the better start but Vettel made his customary sweep across the track effectively ending Webber's challenge right then and there. I don't think Webber gave him the position though it was clear he was racing Vettel.

BS ?
In Korea, Webber started from Pole.

"Mathematically now it is very difficult for him to win the championship and he is a smart guy. He has been an important part of the team and I have every confidence that he will be doing his best to help the team achieve its objectives for the championship."

Great job by MW and all the other drivers between SV and FA last weekend ... hopefully they keep parting like the Red Sea for FA till the end of the season ;)

I'd love to see Mark get a good start and stay ahead of Seb, just to see how the team squirms

Edited by H2H, 03 November 2012 - 20:25.

I'd love to see Mark get a good start and stay ahead of Seb, just to see how the team squirms

I dont know how mark has put up this team for as long as he has.

people go on about schumacher at ferrari but I bet Horner needs a sign to remind him that vettel even has a team mate and even then in only the loosest definition. likewise newey.

I bet they even ask mark to clean sebs side of the garage

they don't ask, they order him. and he has to wash up using his tears.

I dont know how mark has put up this team for as long as he has.

Edited by smoothcrim, 04 November 2012 - 01:02.

I dont know how mark has put up this team for as long as he has.

people go on about schumacher at ferrari but I bet Horner needs a sign to remind him that vettel even has a team mate and even then in only the loosest definition. likewise newey.

I bet they even ask mark to clean sebs side of the garage

It would be a different story if he hadnt of crashed in Korea.

No, it would be a different story if RBR hadn't tried to use team-orders to prevent him winning three in a row, and if Vettel had not been such an idiot.

No, it would be a different story if RBR hadn't tried to use team-orders to prevent him winning three in a row, and if Vettel had not been such an idiot. I wonder how the complexion of the championship would have changed if Mark HAD won three in a row?


Anyway, Mark P2, Vettel P24, Mark gets to fight for the win, Vettel probably loses his cool as soon as he gets to someone who (rightfully) fights for the track position. Mark wins, Vettel DNF, and suddenly, it's all back on. Doesn't take much.