The Crystal Palace

Another oldie that evokes Palace memories so well (photo by the late Dennis Rapley)

What a great shot (the glade )I think with North Tower in the background I remember dear old Charlie Sanby sliding off his beautiful gold and blue Norton at North Tower thankfully Charlie was ok but the Manx was a bit second-hand after hitting the railway sleepers on the out side .I think the Palace was Keith Turners first race in the UK maybe someone will know but I remember he gave Paul Smart a good run for his money both of course went on to bigger things. Bill Lawrence

Not bad, aye. Any idea who the bloke on the outside might be? I don't know myself - he looks pretty determined on his Manx in late fifties short circuit fettle, Oldani front stopper an all. It looks a lot like Annerly Ramp to me; spectators couldn't get to the Glade, which from memory, and somewhat perversely, didn't have the sleepers alongside the circuit edge.

Ramp bend followed by the Annerley Ramp:

Edited by Russell Burrows, 19 May 2013 - 17:47.

Great shots, and the crowds are on a par with modern day BSB!!

That's information worth remembering. I wonder if you have any photographs ?

I am afraid not. However, as I previously mentioned I have a lot of programmes - probably around 85-90% of the post-war meetings. So, if you need any info. that might be contained therein please don't hesitate to ask.

I have also noticed that there is a serious lack of film footage of bike racing at the Palace. Surely there must be some people out there who took some private home-movie style footage??? I am trying to remember if any meetings were ever covered on TV. It certainly wasn't very common whereas the 4-wheel meetings were often shown on the BBC.

Action at the Palace?

FYI


PRESS RELEASE
15 May 2013
For Immediate Publication
MOTORSPORT AT CRYSTAL PALACE - JUST DAYS TO GO
Motorsport at the Palace 2013, in association with the Ancaster Group, is almost here and - with so many new attractions - we're looking forward to a really special couple of days.
 
Over 200 cars will take to the track over Sunday and Monday, 26-27 May, a combination of modern race cars and classic vehicles, some of which raced at the Palace decades ago. Crystal Palace is steeped in motorsport history: it's the track where Moss and Clark cut their teeth, and where Rindt made his name and we're proud to help celebrate this unique heritage.
 
Of course, it's not all smoking tyres and oversteer! Away from the track, there's a host of family-themed fun for all ages. New to this year's Motorsport at the Palace is the Kit Car Village, where some stunning cars will be joined by many dedicated exhibitors. The Kit Car Village is sponsored by Kit-Car Magazine, whose staff will be on hand to share their wisdom.
 
Motorcycle fans can look forward to some vintage race exotica, courtesy of the Classic Racing Motorcycle Club, which will also be wowing guests with live runs three times a day.
 
Diggerland also makes a welcome return, allowing guests to take control of some heavy-duty construction equipment, and younger guests can enjoy a ride in the London Karting Company's go-karts, before taking a tour of the park in the Wright Events' Barrel Train.
 
Kleers Premium Car Care Products will be judging the many beautiful cars in the static show, where guests will find plenty of finely polished vehicles from the likes of the the GTR Owners Club, TVR South London & Kent and the Lotus Cortina Register. The latter will be showing a very rare 1966 Cortina 1500GT - Crayford Prototype, which carried Jacky Ickx around Crystal Palace on his victory parade lap, following his success here in 1967.
 
There will also be plenty of exhibitors and retail stalls, offering all kinds of motorsport-related produce, and - as usual - visitors will be able to enjoy the relaxed atmosphere of the open paddock, where drivers and mechanics are always keen to stop and chat.
 
:: Images of Motorsport at the Palace are available, using the password 7oaks, from: http://photos.gridsh...26761633_K8Znfz
:: Motorsport at the Palace has raised over £10,000 for local charities, Royal London Society for Blind People and St Christopher's Hospice, and will be continuing its support of these organisations in 2013.
:: Tickets are £10 for adults; children under 16 enter free, but must be accompanied by an adult. Advance tickets are £8, available from the event website at http://motorsportatthepalace.co.uk/
 
For further details, please contact:
Kevin Turner

I am afraid not. However, as I previously mentioned I have a lot of programmes - probably around 85-90% of the post-war meetings. So, if you need any info. that might be contained therein please don't hesitate to ask.

I have also noticed that there is a serious lack of film footage of bike racing at the Palace. Surely there must be some people out there who took some private home-movie style footage??? I am trying to remember if any meetings were ever covered on TV. It certainly wasn't very common whereas the 4-wheel meetings were often shown on the BBC.

That's a kind offer, thanks. Yes, there seems to be very little film/vid out there: I whacked up this less than wonderful little piece a few years ago :

http://www.britishpa...l palace racing

That's a kind offer, thanks. Yes, there seems to be very little film/vid out there: I whacked up this less than wonderful little piece a few years ago :

http://www.britishpa...l palace racing

Excellent Russell - thanks for that.

I want more!

Excellent Russell - thanks for that.

I want more!

Yes, gotta be more out there somewhere. I didn't know about the vault type thing:
http://www.urban75.n...y.284099/page-2

 
Diggerland also makes a welcome return, allowing guests to take control of some heavy-duty construction equipment,

Now you're talking!! give me a couple of hours on a good 360 excavator and i'll have most of the missing bits re-instated ready for a coat of tarmac

Great news - engineering work has removed the train system as a method of reaching T he Palace on Sunday.

Thanks, Transport London!

Great news - engineering work has removed the train system as a method of reaching T he Palace on Sunday.

Thanks, Transport London!

There are replacement buses and alternative railway stations close by, Penge East for example.

Try this is you're not familiar with the area -

http://journeyplanne...ST2?language=en

Hi Pete33,

I saw that you have a lot of Crystal Palace programs. I am looking for any information about John Macdonald (DJS) who raced a Vincent 1000 there in 1958 at either the 7 April or 4 October meetings. Any help that you could give would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Angus

In roughly 10 hours from now I'll be back home in Malta. I'll post a few images from the event at The Palace as soon as I get them downloaded.

Hi Pete33,

I saw that you have a lot of Crystal Palace programs. I am looking for any information about John Macdonald (DJS) who raced a Vincent 1000 there in 1958 at either the 7 April or 4 October meetings. Any help that you could give would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Angus

Angus I raced at the Palace from late 1958 to 1961 and then cars from then to its closure in 1966 ish?
I have trawled through my programmes for you and the 7/4/58 event did not show John Macdonald (DJS) Vincent as you can see from the below pic of the programme.
There is a reference to him though on the 4/8/1958 where a cross shows (I think) that for some reason he did not race.
Hope this helps.
, ,

Could No 44 be Alan Trow? Bill Lawrence

Russell I think this was the 351 to 1000 race at the Palace on the 30/3/1959.
No 43 is C J Griffin BSA, No 18 is J D Gobbett (who I believe had previously raced a bike called a Gobjob special) and No 44 is A Y Bush.
The race was won by Joe Dunphy followed by John Holder and a 'R Hunter' (not his real name I expect).

Russell I think this was the 351 to 1000 race at the Palace on the 30/3/1959.
No 43 is C J Griffin BSA, No 18 is J D Gobbett (who I believe had previously raced a bike called a Gobjob special) and No 44 is A Y Bush.
The race was won by Joe Dunphy followed by John Holder and a 'R Hunter' (not his real name I expect).

That would be Roger Hunter I think Bill Lawrence

Russell I think this was the 351 to 1000 race at the Palace on the 30/3/1959.
No 43 is C J Griffin BSA, No 18 is J D Gobbett (who I believe had previously raced a bike called a Gobjob special) and No 44 is A Y Bush.
The race was won by Joe Dunphy followed by John Holder and a 'R Hunter' (not his real name I expect).

Thanks for checking that out, germanty. Do you rekon 18 has a Goldie motor rather than a Manx ? I wonder if there are any Palace photos lurking amongst your excellent photo collection ?

Thanks for checking that out, germanty. Do you rekon 18 has a Goldie motor rather than a Manx ? I wonder if there are any Palace photos lurking amongst your excellent photo collection ?

Yes Russ it does look a bit like one! I have a few from the Palace anything in particular?

Hi Pete33,

I saw that you have a lot of Crystal Palace programs. I am looking for any information about John Macdonald (DJS) who raced a Vincent 1000 there in 1958 at either the 7 April or 4 October meetings. Any help that you could give would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Angus

Hi Angus, sorry I didn't reply earlier but somehow or other I missed your request for information.

As Germanty has said he appears in the programme for the 4 August meeting. He also appears in the programme for the 4 October meet, but there are no notes in my programmes to indicate if he started or was placed. His initials in the programmes are given as DJL rather than DJS.

Thanks for checking that out, germanty. Do you rekon 18 has a Goldie motor rather than a Manx ? I wonder if there are any Palace photos lurking amongst your excellent photo collection ?

Didn't the bottom frame rail on the right hand side need modifying to fit a Goldie engine in a Featherbed?

Gentlemen,

You are right, it should have read DJL not DJS.

Thank you very much for all the trouble that you have gone to on my behalf. You have certainly solved the problem of which meeting he attended.

John didn’t compete in the 4 August 1958 Crystal Palace meeting as he was in the Channel Islands racing in the Val de Terres Hillclimb, Guernsey on that date. He was 4th fastest FTD and the only motorcycle entrant from England. The Vincent was not in the best of shape as he had snapped the triple row primary chain the weekend before at the Bouley Bay Hillclimb, Jersey where he was 2nd FTD with a 57.8 sec run.

As far as the 4 October 1958 meeting was concerned MCN had the following to say about it:-
"the crowd had little to enthuse about for continuous heavy rain showers spoilt everything. Dismal conditions throughout the morning and torrential rain just before the start flooded parts of the track and pumps had to be brought into action. Even though, there were pools of water everywhere and showers of spray followed the riders".
Johns says that he can’t remember anything about this meeting but it sounds like a good one to miss!

I’m having trouble looking at your scans as all find is a black X which I can’t open. I’ll ask someone with more knowledge about the Internet than I have about it (and that won’t be hard!).

Yes Russ it does look a bit like one! I have a few from the Palace anything in particular?

Whatever you can dig out please, germanty. Some of yourself would be good. Thanks.

Didn't the bottom frame rail on the right hand side need modifying to fit a Goldie engine in a Featherbed?

I honestly don't know. Maybe it's a Manx after all ?

Didn't the bottom frame rail on the right hand side need modifying to fit a Goldie engine in a Featherbed?

It needs slightly flattened, Robin, to clear the oil pump housing in the bottom of the Goldie crankcases.

Norman Surtees around 62/3.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 18 July 2013 - 13:28.

Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 11:10.

Hello Jim, welcome to the forum.  Although the copyright remains with the photographer for a period of seventy years after their death, and the snapper in your case retains this despite selling you the photo, you would be spectacularly unlucky if you were pursued for whacking it up here. I'm afraid I can't recall the name any photographer who worked at the Palace.  Can we have some more info on your good self?

Crystal Palace 1971

Copyright Unknown - If you recognise this photographer’s work or it’s yours can you please make contact. Thankyou, Jim Kanka

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://wkk77.wix.com/crystal-palace

Edited by Jim77, 09 March 2015 - 15:46.

Nice shot.  I've definitely seen this before and that almost certainly means its out there on the interweb already.  I would'nt get too fussed about whacking it up here.  I have a strong suspicion that this is one of those commisioned by the GLC, the operators of the circuit on our behalf, and since that organisation is now defunct, it's arguable that no copyright now exits.   The London Metropolitan Archive at Ckerknwell, have the remnants of the collection of photos taken to adorn Palace publicity and prorgrammes .  Unfortunately, they seem to have lost loads of them.  They are still viewable though, although I wouldn't travel very far to have a butchers.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 15 June 2014 - 17:37.

Yes! Your right, I originally sent it to http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/ with the chance the photographer might be still around to see his work.

 

I'm hoping that showing the image, I might find his name.

Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 11:12.

Is it you Jim?

Yes.........Thanks, for putting photo up

Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 13:05.

Hello again,

 

I've just opened a new topic called Movietone which shows link to  images of Crystal Palace.

Wasn't sure whether to add link here or just leave under new topic any advice welcome.

Doesn't really matter Jim but post it over here as well if you want so we have the best of both worlds, just going to watch It myself now

 

I went and explored the Palace last year for the first time, i'd been wanting to see it since I was a kid reading about the meetings in MCN, but i'd had never actually seen the place.

 

I did a lap on foot and found the whole experience fascinating, especially the proximity of the houses to where the circuit would have been through the Glade, the place is a real gem and its a sad loss to UK motorsport that they don't use it anymore.

 

I notice in this months Classic Racer magazine there is a feature on Martin Carney and a couple of nice shots of him in action at the Palace.

Edited by Paul Collins, 21 June 2014 - 21:49.

Hi Paul,

A different view when you're walking around the circuit. My wife and I walked the Palace about 3 weeks ago had been meaning to do it for the last thirty years! We were going to walk the new short circuit as well but only remembered when we were on bus home. Probably do it in July?

 

Will have to look at the Classic Racer.

Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 12:48.

Does anybody have the programme for the September 1971 Palace meeting, I have the results sheet

but never saw the programme.

 

I've looked around various motorcycle jumbles for Palace programmes but have found nothing so far.

Were all these programmes thrown away or are living in some one draws hidden from prying eyes,

wanting to be seen again.

 

If you are a programme ask your owner to bring you in to the LIGHT.

Edited by Jim77, 05 August 2014 - 14:45.

Just so happens I do but it's stashed away in a Big Yellow storage wotsit with the rest of my stuff. .   I will though retrieve it one  day.  Were you at that meeting, Jim? 

Yes, I was riding, thats why I've got the results sheet and guess what, my number was 77.

Probably most riders like me never bought a programme while racing ....no time.

Glad to know one person has the programme.

 

Just looked at results saw you were at the same meeting event 9 (115) riding AJS .

I was in event 6 & 14 1000 / Production Triumph T120.

Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 12:50.

While on my quest for the name of a 1971 photographer, I have been in contact with Bemsee for information about Crystal Palace 1971. Although they couldn’t find anything this time, Peter Bartlett (Bemsee Director) kindly sent me the”pdf“of the last motorcycle meeting in 1972. I mentioned that some ex riders on this site might be interested in the programme; there is a write up on the late Dave Nixon and also seven photos.  The "pdf" can  be downloaded from David Riley's site: - http://daveriley.wee...tal-palace.html . If any members enjoy the programme perhaps you can drop Peter a line at clubracing@btinternet.com.  

Edited by Jim77, 29 March 2015 - 20:11.

I have that program at home.

 

No44 races 2 and 6, my fore into formula 750 racing on an ex-works BSA twin.   

Anyone have the Easter '72 programme and if so could they whack it up please.  

Anyone recognize this Vincent and rider?

 

https://www.flickr.c...xii/6530574911/

Lance Capon aboard the red Capon Vincent. Should be able to find a bit about him through the Search facility on here, Jim.

Thanks. Thought the bike looked familiar, suppose it should have been because I had ridden in several events with Lance. Didn’t recognize helmet, only remember about three Vincent’s in events entered. Cheers

Re registered as forgotten "everything  (password) " what a palaver!!    Great shot of Lance Capon!

Some nice Image File shots here. Some arse about face though.
https://www.theimage...=crystal palace

Edited by Russell Burrows, 08 December 2014 - 20:56.

Just found cover for Crystal Palace 4th Setember 1971, would be nice to see the rest of the programme!

 

 

Just found cover for Crystal Palace 4th Setember 1971, would be nice to see the rest of the programme!

 

 

A while back I posted a photo of Tony Rutter on this same TR2 at a British Champ. meeting at Croft....lokks like Ceriani forks fitted.

Greg

Anyone going to the Palace this bank holiday weekend?

 

My mate Roger Jennings and I will probably limp along for a reacquaintance with the sleepers  .