Vettel: illegal track-cutting?

Vettel´s driving style. He usually go wider than the rest.

However he stayed on the track (the kerbs are a part of the track). Then no way.

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 October 2012 - 08:49.

I have just been givin from one of my friend who works on the track. He has just spoken to Charlie and that's what he said: "In our opinion cutting some parts of the track doesn't give you an advantage. The astroturf slows the car down more than the advantage you can gain with that. In the briefing all drivers were given with this piece of information and everyone should be aware of that."
Despite that some people are not delighted with that, for example Alan Jones, who is the third stewart at this weekend. "The question is whether you can gain something coming into the next corner."

I know Vettel ****ed up his first attempt, got angry because he knew he couldn't give the pole away with such a dominant car and then went it for some illegal ways.

Edited by Sakae, 28 October 2012 - 08:49.

If they are that bothered about track limits, put a wall or grass/gravel on the exit of the tarmac.
Give racing drivers an inch and they take a mile

(1) Then he needs to change it.

(2) No they're not. The rules make that quite clear.

Edited by Alarcon, 28 October 2012 - 08:55.

Sometimes I get the feeling Vettel is allowed to do what he wants to.

No. With this driving style he has become 2 WDC.

Maybe the others should change, but not the WDC.

His driving style is always to take every inch of the "outside", just as Mika did. If you remember Suzuka pole from Seb and Imola pole from Mika (two amazing pole positions ever) they used all the track. Seb did almost in every circuit and i can put you here a lot of examples, but it´s not the thread. Being with the two wheels off track is a part of the game, and there is a turf here, then no way.

Trust me, if he did something illegal, they would have penalised him. Actually, he received 3 penalties this season.;)

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 October 2012 - 09:06.

I know Martin mentioned it during qualifying (and I think Button mentioned it as well at some point), it had been brought to Charlie's attention that certain areas were fine to run wide at and all 4 wheels leaving the track. It is not unusual that these allowances happen. Something like that would have already have been investigated by the stewards. Is Seb the only driver to have done it?

No. With this driving style he has become 2 WDC.

Maybe the others should change, but not the WDC.

His driving style is always to take every inch of the "outside", just as Mika did. If you remember Suzuka pole from Seb and Imola pole from Mika (two amazing pole positions ever) they used all the track. Seb did almost in every circuit and i can put you here a lot of examples, but it´s not the thread. Being with the two wheels off track is a part of the game, and there is a turf here, then no way.

Trust me, if he did something illegal, they would have penalised him. Actually, he received 3 penalties this season.;)

Kobayashi:
http://imageshack.us...3/indiakoba.png

Räikkönen:
http://imageshack.us...0/indiakimi.png

Hülkenberg:
http://imageshack.us...6/indiahulk.png

Grosjean:
http://imageshack.us...7/indiagros.png

Kobayashi:
Räikkönen:
Hülkenberg:
Grosjean:

Kobayashi:
http://imageshack.us...3/indiakoba.png

Räikkönen:
http://imageshack.us...0/indiakimi.png

Hülkenberg:
http://imageshack.us...6/indiahulk.png

Grosjean:
http://imageshack.us...7/indiagros.png

I saw lots of driver abandon their Q laps because they got that corner wrong and cut it. It's probably the hardest corner on the track to get right. If you cut it, you remove the challenge.

Kobayashi:
http://imageshack.us...3/indiakoba.png

Räikkönen:
http://imageshack.us...0/indiakimi.png

Hülkenberg:
http://imageshack.us...6/indiahulk.png

Grosjean:
http://imageshack.us...7/indiagros.png

Threads like this are really embarrassing. It really shows just how many people here don't understand even the most basic things about racing and the rules.

Threads like this are really embarrassing. It really shows just how many people here don't understand even the most basic things about racing and the rules.

Threads like this are really embarrassing. It really shows just how many people here don't understand even the most basic things about racing and the rules.

It's more about how selective people are looking at things.

Just five minutes more time and checking how other drive took the chicanes or whatever would be enough to see that was nothing wrong with Vettel.

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 October 2012 - 11:55.

Well the rules are the Kerb are not part of the track, which part are people not understanding that you have a clearer insight into?

Things (what is allowed and what not) are clarified in the drivers briefing. And we rarely know what is being said.

Just because other drivers also did it doesn't mean there was nothing wrong with what Vettel did - it merely means those drivers should also have been penalised/their lap discounted if it was part of their fastest lap. Or are you suggesting that if everybody unanimously decided to straight-line the chicane at Monaco, contrary to the rules, you would have no issue with it?

I don't disagree with that but EvanRainer somehow has a clear insight into the reading of them as the people who read the rules are some how reading it wrong?

When did you start watching F1 yesterday?

Don't you understand that this is something that happens almost in every damn race? There is no controversy, there is no discussion to be had.

Please try to understand how stewarding at F1 races works.

Edited by study, 28 October 2012 - 12:03.

The kerbs should be considered in, the runoff not.

Exactly what Diablobb81 said.

Muppetmad if you were actually following racing closer you would know that. Maybe you need to watch more racing than spend time on forums embarrassing yourself.

So you agree that everyone should be penalised from the race from cutting it multiple times?

Edited by Muppetmad, 28 October 2012 - 12:06.

So, you're assuming that this was clarified in the driver's meeting, when we have no access to that and you clearly have just magically presumed this because it fits your agenda, and I'm embarrassing myself? Provide evidence before making such puerile responses. You've suggested that you have a knowledge of the "rules" when you clearly don't, you're merely jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

This has nothing to do with "following racing closer", it's about following the rules. If it was clarified in the driver's briefing, fair enough - but we don't know what was actually said, it's entirely possible nothing was said at all. In fact, I could make the sweeping assumption that nothing was said - it's as substantiated as your opinion.

This.

So, you're assuming that this was clarified in the driver's meeting, when we have no access to that and you clearly have just magically presumed this because it fits your agenda, and I'm embarrassing myself? Provide evidence before making such puerile responses. You've suggested that you have a knowledge of the "rules" when you clearly don't, you're merely jumping to an unsubstantiated conclusion.

If a car has all 4 wheels off the track during qualifying, that lap should be wiped.

That´s idiotic. I think Fernando Hockenheim quali lap was perfectly legit, and it´d be ilegal according to that, same for Vettel´s Hungary lap when it´s blatant he lost a fraction going wide.

Tracks should make sure going there is slower, but while that happens we shouldn´t start doing anything stupid.

So what is it that YOU are suggesting then?

That nothing was said in the meeting and then they decided to not punish anyone as some part of grand conspiracy?

Yeah, cause assuming that makes MUCH more sense.

Why?

Is cutting corners allowed? no, so why not do the same to haing 4 wheels off the track, where do you draw a line between off the track and cutting corners.

Because you fail to understand the basics. It´s ilegal to gain an advantage by leaving the track, not leaving the track itself. Your rule would bring crazy unfair stuff, and it´s nonsense frankly. Tell to FIA, they might like it.

Read the rule book. I have, and as I understand it, no more than two wheels can leave the track, nevermind gaining advantage in the process. I am however puzzled how FiA applies that particular part of sporting regulations in individual cases.

Unless something was decided upon in the drivers briefing that was not made public, the rules should be followed in this regard.

Edited by mnmracer, 28 October 2012 - 16:01.

However, that will not happen. I just think the circuit designs need to be altered because drivers are always constantly trying to push the boundaries of what is acceptable for how far off the track one can go. The punishment for leaving circuits nowadays is minimal compared to the old days. Any punishment really comes from the race stewards, if in fact they give any.

Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?

Which scenario includes less assumptions?
Theory 1: The FIA was either sleeping (1), gave Vettel an unfair advantage (2), or gave multiple drivers an unfair advantage (3).
Theory 2: During the driver's briefing, it was decided that you were allowed to cut the track there.