How he can create track as great as COTA, and then do something shitty as Valencia? Just how? This track is probably one of best in calendar, great turn 19, something new in turn 1, high-mid speed turns, possible overtakes not only in DRS zone.
And then u get Valencia, that is plain pathetic.
Can we expect more tracks like COTA and make them replace Valencia and similar?
So Tillke tracks arent that bad?
Started by
Shiroo
, Nov 18 2012 21:13
61 replies to this topic
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#2
skywing
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:15
Well he can't do much with Valencia as it's a street circuit.How he can create track as great as COTA, and then do something shitty as Valencia? Just how? This track is probably one of best in calendar, great turn 19, something new in turn 1, high-mid speed turns, possible overtakes not only in DRS zone.
And then u get Valencia, that is plain pathetic.
Can we expect more tracks like COTA and make them replace Valencia and similar?
#3
fisssssi
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:15
After designing 15 or so tracks he's bound to get one or two right.
#4
Risil
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:17
Thought Kevin Schwantz did the layout for this one?
Anyway, Doctor Tilke's got to work with the land he's given.
Anyway, Doctor Tilke's got to work with the land he's given.
#5
Dalton007
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:18
It was the ice rink asphalt that made the difference.
#6
george1981
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:18
He did what a lot of people have been saying for he should do for years, he stole good corners from other tracks and added some run off.
#7
Henrik B
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:19
Given a decent budget and a good plot, Tilke delivers. Valencia is a street circuit with many limitations, can't be compared to getting a hilly landscape and free reign.
#8
Jejking
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:20
Lolnailedit.He did what a lot of people have been saying for he should do for years, he stole good corners from other tracks and added some run off.
#9
cokeb
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:24
Eh, track wasn't that good, I thought. Sometimes even the worst tracks throws up good racing. (Not that COTA is close to being the worst)
I'll reserve judgement for a few years.
I'll reserve judgement for a few years.
#10
Rubens Hakkamacher
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:26
You mean a Tavo Helmund and Kevin Schwanz designed circuit. Tilke just did the engineering this time around.
#11
Realyn
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:27
People on this board are stupid and have a short memory. Like they actually care about when and for what reason the tracks were designed.
#12
F1ultimate
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:32
The race was great but the track isn't. Just like in India it's way to biased towards DRS. The guy ahead stands no chance of defending. Without DRS there would have been fewer overtakes. Lewis would have never passed Vettel.
#13
Massa
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:33
This track is the best of the calendar for me. Fantastic for racing.
#14
choyothe
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:33
I thought Valencia was back to being awesome after this years race? 
#15
AlexS
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:37
I am sure Tilke didn't designed it. And he was against the hill at turn 1.
COTA corners are like Kyalami and others tracks of 70's. That is why drivers have several trajectories to choose while Tilke tracks mostly have a definite preferential trajectory.
Btw i think much more can be made in track construction with some banking and inverted banking, making different trajectories possible.
COTA corners are like Kyalami and others tracks of 70's. That is why drivers have several trajectories to choose while Tilke tracks mostly have a definite preferential trajectory.
Btw i think much more can be made in track construction with some banking and inverted banking, making different trajectories possible.
Edited by AlexS, 18 November 2012 - 21:44.
#16
Anderis
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:48
I actually think that Tilke's tracks aren't that bad and I can think of 2 or 3 not Tilke-designed circuit in current F1 that are worse than any of Tilke's circuits from my point of view.
But it seems I have a bit different view to majority of people about what should F1 circuit be like.
Shanghai has become my favourite F1 circuit after this year.
But it seems I have a bit different view to majority of people about what should F1 circuit be like.
Shanghai has become my favourite F1 circuit after this year.
#17
SUPRAF1
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:49
Bernie just told Simon he expects 3 Grands Prix in America within the next 3 year, with one in California...
#18
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:50
I think the track surface had a lot to do with it.
#19
Baddoer
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:51
Yeah, hopefully COTA is not a Tilke track after all
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#20
Alx09
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:52
This is why the track was as good as it was.You mean a Tavo Helmund and Kevin Schwanz designed circuit. Tilke just did the engineering this time around.
#21
LittleChris
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:58
I am sure Tilke didn't designed it. And he was against the hill at turn 1.
COTA corners are like Kyalami and others tracks of 70's.
If COTA corners were like those of the 70's, they'd have built something along the lines of the Mercedes/Hella Licht curve at the top of the hill then added the poxy hairpin a few hundred metres later
#22
Gyan
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:13
You mean a Tavo Helmund and Kevin Schwanz designed circuit. Tilke just did the engineering this time around.
Let's get them to design any new tracks then. Tilke can do the engineering for them as well.
#23
SCUDmissile
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:16
One thing they did wrong imo is that they have a low speed hairpin before, and after the main straight. that hinders overtaking.
they should, imo have a corner more like Shanghai before the straight, or Eau Rouge, you know a high speed turn.
they should, imo have a corner more like Shanghai before the straight, or Eau Rouge, you know a high speed turn.
#24
Shiroo
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:17
Excatly my thoughts lolLet's get them to design any new tracks then. Tilke can do the engineering for them as well.
#25
Rob
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:20
I'm not exactly overwhelmed by the track. I think the racing was down to the combination of the low grip asphalt and Pirelli's choice of tyre compounds.
#26
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:24
It will be crazy for MotoGP though.
#27
wj_gibson
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:26
Thought Kevin Schwantz did the layout for this one?
Anyway, Doctor Tilke's got to work with the land he's given.
Schwantz did the initial basic layout, the finer details were filled in by Tilke.
#28
Rob
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:27
It will be crazy for MotoGP though.
Could be quite a few highsides...
#29
jk
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:27
The track also looked great on TV. No endless gray surroundings. The snake was just beautiful, even more challending than the original at Suzuka. Perhaps the most impressive section on the entire calender.
One problem is the location of the long straight. The snake means the cars will get strung out and a hairpin into the straight is not good. It would have been much better if the main straight are after the tricky T19. The slow section means the cars can close up and the tricky nature of the corners means that it is possible to get a better exit than the cars ahead. But of course that was not possible but I would have liked something better leading onto the straight.
Very good debut for the track. It was much better in the race than predicted from watching the practice. It definately warrents a slot on the calender, and I hope that the race can be kept at COTA.
One problem is the location of the long straight. The snake means the cars will get strung out and a hairpin into the straight is not good. It would have been much better if the main straight are after the tricky T19. The slow section means the cars can close up and the tricky nature of the corners means that it is possible to get a better exit than the cars ahead. But of course that was not possible but I would have liked something better leading onto the straight.
Very good debut for the track. It was much better in the race than predicted from watching the practice. It definately warrents a slot on the calender, and I hope that the race can be kept at COTA.
#30
BernieEc
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:29
fantastic track. Second only to my beloved SPA
#31
Guest_4L3X_*
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:30
He did what a lot of people have been saying for he should do for years, he stole good corners from other tracks and added some run off.
Exactly!
#32
Tenmantaylor
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:34
Tilke has designed some great drivers tracks (Sepang, Turkey and now COTA) and a lot of his tracks and edited tracks have created better racing (China track, T1 at Hungaroring and the hairpin at the new Hockenheim are examples that have increased overtaking) but I feel the only real bugbear anyone really has is things like the generic looks and general character of the tracks regardless of country or continent. A bit formulaic even for Formula 1. The massive painted runoffs, the easy flat kerbs and astroturf. As much as these may improve safety someone needs to push back a bit and make sure the drivers can't bail out so easily without losing time. This is the consistent message I've heard time and again from informed pundits and I totally agree.
#33
Rob
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:42
I just wish that one day he'll feel a bit crazy and make an old school horsepower circuit like Monza, the old Hockenheim or the Osterreichring.
#34
Henrik B
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:42
One thing they did wrong imo is that they have a low speed hairpin before, and after the main straight. that hinders overtaking.
they should, imo have a corner more like Shanghai before the straight, or Eau Rouge, you know a high speed turn.
High speed turns - in general - means the car behind loses downforce and can't follow closely, so the car in front has too big advantage. The thing with Shanghai is that the corner is banked, so that DF loss isn't as big.
#35
Alfisti
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:44
I think the track surface had a lot to do with it.
Probably 10,000 members on this board and it took this long for someone to say it. Any time we have a lack of grip that affects the tyres we get a good race.
#36
Skinnyguy
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:47
Of course they´re not. It´s just a stupid mantra repeated to death by nostalgia guys. Malaysia is a masterpiece. New Hockenheim is wheel to wheel racing temple. Bahrain might be boring looking but again racing is always awesome. Turkey is another masterpiece. Corea is just so fun to drive. Etc. He made abortions in places where he was given **** places to create racetracks.
#37
Alfisti
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:47
I'm not exactly overwhelmed by the track. I think the racing was down to the combination of the low grip asphalt and Pirelli's choice of tyre compounds.
As above i agree 100% but at least it FELT like a race. The track had colour, bright sunshine, huge motor homes with BBQ's fired up, lots of fans etc .... absolutely SHITS ALL OVER India, Korea, China etc and their endless grey, smoggy, souless atmosphere.
#38
Alfisti
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:49
Of course they´re not. It´s just a stupid mantra repeated to death by nostalgia guys. Malaysia is a masterpiece. New Hockenheim is wheel to wheel racing temple. Bahrain might be boring looking but again racing is always awesome. Turkey is another masterpiece. Corea is just so fun to drive. Etc. He made abortions in places where he was given **** places to create racetracks.
Most are absolutely ruined by way too many pointless, twisty sections that annihilate the flow of the track. I would cut a total of 37 corners from Bahrain, China, Yabbi Dabbi, Korea and India.
#39
Rob
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:50
Absolutely. But I still feel that there are things that could be improved. Cutting out that stop-start section near the end of the lap would be one. Getting rid of the tarmac runoff would be another.As above i agree 100% but at least it FELT like a race. The track had colour, bright sunshine, huge motor homes with BBQ's fired up, lots of fans etc .... absolutely SHITS ALL OVER India, Korea, China etc and their endless grey, smoggy, souless atmosphere.
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#40
BigCHrome
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:50
CotA could've been way better if it wasn't for Tilke.
#41
Skinnyguy
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:51
Most are absolutely ruined by way too many pointless, twisty sections that annihilate the flow of the track. I would cut a total of 37 corners from Bahrain, China, Yabbi Dabbi, Korea and India.
Hey, the piece after the DRS zone in COTA is like that, and it still provided racing and kept cars surprisingly close. I would demolish Corea last sector and that´s it.
#42
Rob
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:55
Most are absolutely ruined by way too many pointless, twisty sections that annihilate the flow of the track. I would cut a total of 37 corners from Bahrain, China, Yabbi Dabbi, Korea and India.
It's as though Tilke gets paid by the corner. Often it's better not to overcomplicate things. As that old adage says - keep it simple, stupid.
#43
AlexS
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:59
To be a classic this race needs proper dirty runoff areas that real penalize drivers. I agree that last section could also be simplified maybe a banked curve to the main straight.
#44
Skinnyguy
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:01
To be a classic this race needs proper dirty runoff areas that real penalize drivers. I agree that last section could also be simplified maybe a banked curve to the main straight.
What? The ammount of rubbish in the runoffs made it like grass
Maybe we found the ultimate solution for runoffs.
#45
jk
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:02
I agree that the final sector worked much better than feared from looking at the map. We saw some great dives into the left hairpin. And i really dont know why turn 16-18 have different numbers, it is just a single corner. And no one can argue with the number of corners in the snake.
#46
panzani
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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:59
Even a broken clock... 
#47
Skinnyguy
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:03
Even a broken clock...
...Can be used to throw at Tilke.
#48
Shiroo
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:06
imo add wall next to turn 19. Imagine how many cars would land there during a weekend
#49
Nitropower
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:09
Yes they are that bad. They all look the same and are almost the same. Where are the new high speed tracks? Nowhere. Where are the new Spa's or Monza's? Nowhere. It's all COTAS, Abu Dhabis, Singapores, Valencias, Koreas... tailored the same way, sharp apexes, squared slow corners, thick kerbs, big runoff areas... It's like a Tour de France with 15 time trials in 21 stages... so if you have the best engineer to make a concrete kind of car that best adapts to a ver specific kind of circuit, with the best traction and slow corner speed, then you can have a run of several WDC&WCC's, and nothing will change until FIA gets bored of the same team winning 8 times in a row and changes rules again, because circuits won't change my friend. They don't care whether they are street circuits or dull circuits they just need someone paying the contract and that's what they care about nothing else.
#50
rob6484
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Posted 19 November 2012 - 00:21
To be a classic this race needs proper dirty runoff areas that real penalize drivers. I agree that last section could also be simplified maybe a banked curve to the main straight.
I agree, but the rules at the moment are all for tarmac run-offs, as when a car slides sideways into gravel, it would flip over. And if a car ended up upside down in gravel, the driver could be buried. But what tarmac means is that mistakes arent punished, and its easy to look really ugly (look at Paul Ricard in France) someone needs to discover a surface thats safe, pretty, and also slows the cars so mistakes are punished.
But overall, the track was fantastic, but i hope tilke retires soon, cant have all the tracks made by him..
