Vettel's little tantrum when Hamilton passed him....

In a season where Ferrari was getting people penalised by crying about it.



When it comes to straw reaching, Vettel haters take the cake.

Did you even read my post? Both your statements are bizarre. I didn't mention Alonso and said Vettels game face was "no bad thing".

I don't remember Alonso ever having a race lead lost, and his championship compromised, because of a backmarker that ignored the BlueFlags for about a whole sector...

Narain didn't ignore them, he specifically asked Charlie before the race what the protocol for that sector should be, considering the safety of the driver being lapped as well as disrupting the lap of the driver lapping him. Charlie told him that he should only move out of the way once he got to turn 8 and safely out of the slalom, which he dutifully did.

Yawn....

Do you not think those first two were justified considering 1. Rosberg pushed Alonso off the track... and 2. Vettel too pushed Alonso off the track...

I don't think they are necessarily comparable to someone being overtaken by a DRS-enabled rival, and then blaming a lapped driver who was only doing what he had been recommended to do by Race Control...

Say what you want about Schumacher, but a lot of these chaps (LH and SV) could learn a thing or two about professionalism and just getting through sh!t from the master.

Say what you want about Schumacher, but a lot of these chaps (LH and SV) could learn a thing or two about professionalism and just getting through sh!t from the master.

I'd bet that Schumi could've been just as vocal back in his younger days too... it's more a 'problem' of youth speaking their mind more freely.

Look at Webber... an older guy who says a lot of what he thinks, but you get the impression that he thinks about what he says before he speaks it. Younger guys like Vettel just say it.

I'd bet that Schumi could've been just as vocal back in his younger days too... it's more a 'problem' of youth speaking their mind more freely.

Look at Webber... an older guy who says a lot of what he thinks, but you get the impression that he thinks about what he says before he speaks it. Younger guys like Vettel just say it.

We all could have said stuff in the workplace, with our peers, and with our superiors. But at the end of the day, we understand that we both sink or swim together. MS understood this at an earlier age than this current crop. This is part of his ability to galvanize a team. I am not suggesting the he builds, services, develops the car. But saying stuff like "not bad for a #2 driver" does not do the team any good.

It is great for the media. But not exactly great for the team. Everyone loves it when KR is telling his engineer off. But I wonder how the engineer feels?

Alonso whining when Raikkonen wouldn't stop defending his position. Alonso thew a tantrum and told the team to report Webber for blockingdduring quali when he hasn't lost any time. Two perfect examples.

They all get angry and unreasonable, but there's something especially unattractive about how Vettel does it. A bit mean, vindictive, or sarcastic sometimes. Like "thank you boys" after a bad pitstop.

Vettel, more than any other, has a sort of faux "I cannot believe he just did that, speak to Charlie, have him disqualified" sort of attitude.

This is the most ridiculous thing that i've read today. Sure he throws some tantrums when things don't go his way but this attitude that you describe here is exactly not what he displays.
But maybe you confus him with the drivers who actualy cried for Charlie after they thought Vettel did something wrong.

They all get angry and unreasonable, but there's something especially unattractive about how Vettel does it. A bit mean, vindictive, or sarcastic sometimes. Like "thank you boys" after a bad pitstop.

I think thats just how you choose to interpret it.

"but I wanted to win"
"this is rediculous" (that my team mate won't let me pass)

hmm....

"but I wanted to win" is like a small child whining and stamping their feet because another child has got a toy they really want.

The this is ridiculous (germany 2010) wasn't in the clips I was quoting, but anyway Fernando was marginally faster after their pitstops and from a Championship viewpoint the extra 7 points to Fernando made a lot of sense. Not to mention Vettel was only a few seconds down the road, and finished 5 seconds behind Alonso in the end. Imaging the backlash on Ferrari if they hadn't switched and Vettel was able to pass.

Selective memory I guess?

Im sure that Alonso in your avatar is just a coincidence and you are perfectly objective about him and Vettel. Riiiiiiight.


"Im much faster than Felipe", "Guys, this is ridiculous".

Not to mention showing the fist to Petrov after the Abu Dhabi 2010 race, who had 100% right to hold his position. But all-mighty Fernando expects people to just let him through, when he can't overtake.
He also was extremely frustrated in Bahrain 2006, when he took the lead after Schumacher pitted and one of the backmarkers was not moving off the road.

I can be objective and I can't quite easily not like Fernando does, for example I don't like the result of the German GP 2010. I can understand why they did what they did but I don't like it.

I just hope it doesn't take another radio fit and more fastest laps this weekend and a resulting mistake from Seb for him to realise that it's sometimes a good idea to finish second or third or whatever is required. I heard David Croft say today that Vettel had said that he wanted to win this race so that the title was more special - sorry, can't remember exact words but this was the gist. He's got to stay calm and do what's required this weekend even more so given the weather outlook and nature of this race. I admire his will to win but he's got to stay calm, got to.

That's why I don't like vettel or horner, always trying to blame others for their shortcomings.

Every one whines about backmarkers.

Alonso whining when Raikkonen wouldn't stop defending his position. Alonso thew a tantrum and told the team to report Webber for blockingdduring quali when he hasn't lost any time. Two perfect examples.

I'm pretty sure the first one never happened. Unless you're referring to an incident in 2005 or something? Alonso and Kimi show each other great respect on track, likewise with Webber and Button.


You're getting confused with the second incident too as Alonso did lose time but he went faster as the session unfolded and went through to the next session. Ergo, no penalty.

No driver is perfect. Once Seb gets a few more years on him and matures a bit, you'll see him grow up too and cut out the complaining. Incidents like Korea this year or his rant at USA won't happen in a few years, it's a natural part of growing up. I had a really interesting conversation with James Allen about this over the Spa weekend and he said its clear to see that Vettel hasn't learnt to lose yet and it shows through his behaviour. That said it's completely expected of him; all f1 drivers are like that and given that he probably should've won the championship in his second full season he's never had to 'learn' to lose. hell, even Schumacher only really learnt how to lose properly in his second career (and that's coming from a big Michael fan).

These are massive superstars who live in their bubble and have the worlds attention on them all the time. At the same time, they are totally used to winning. As a result, there are very few drivers on the grid who won't complain given the opportunity, but its pointless to go around and cherry pick quotes and claim 'my favourite driver doesn't winge but yours does'.

It's racing. These things happen.

It's not racing, it's DRS.

I think thats just how you choose to interpret it.

I think that's just how you choose to evade it

Once Seb gets a few more years on him and matures a bit, you'll see him grow up too and cut out the complaining.

People will always get frustrated. I dont think that changes with age.

I think that's just how you choose to evade it

Evade it? I'm not really defending him, but I certainly dont get any 'vindictive' or 'mean' vibes from his comments. That sounds a bit extreme.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 November 2012 - 20:20.

People will always get frustrated. I dont think that changes with age.


Evade it? I'm not really defending him, but I certainly dont get any 'vindictive' or 'mean' vibes from his comments. That sounds a bit extreme.

True but you do handle it better.

I think the forum has a tantrum after every hour.

Evade it? I'm not really defending him, but I certainly dont get any 'vindictive' or 'mean' vibes from his comments. That sounds a bit extreme.

It's not something I can demonstrate, because it's not every time of course and it's more tone of voice than anything. But that sarcastic "thank you boys" for a slow stop was real, from Silverstone last year possibly.

Well it's a taste thing perhaps. Some people like him, I'm still trying. I think he will become more likeable through his 20's as young men so often do. Meanwhile I still think he's amazingly unpopular for someone with his achievements, and the side of him we heard in Austin is part of that I think. It's not a 'pure' aggression like we hear from Kimi or Lewis or Nando.

This is a hilarious thread, full of sound and fury. But I'll take Alonso's tirades any day--they're MUCH more enjoyable than anyone else's" ALL-A DA TIME-A--YOU HAVE-A TO LEAVE-A D'SPACE-A!!!"

Bourbon, your constant defense of Vettel, no matter what, is childish.

I get it, you support him and wish him to do well. That's fine. But to reject every criticism so vehemently and insist he 'shouldn't' change a thing is immature.

First, I do support him. Second, I have my own opinion, which I have every right to voice. Third, I do not reject every criticism, only those I disagree with. Criticism is not valid merely because we value our opinion and feel it is correct. Be it criticism or praise, it still boils down to being an opinion that not everyone will agree with. I disagree with you, but I it does not invalidate your opinion, it just means that at least two opinions remain out there in the marketplace of ideas. Yours and mine.

Everyone has the ability to improve, and Sebastian, while very successful to date does exhibit some major failings from time to time. If he were to rectify them, he could be an even greater racing driver.

Everyone does have the ability to improve, but I do not believe fans are best suited to determine in what ways or by what means improvement can be had. I feel that Sebastian has done an excellent job to date in improving over time and I believe that he will continue to do so. He, with whomever he places his trust in, will determine what he needs to do to continue his success and he will do it. He has shown that he can and will change to increase his performance, so I don't have any doubt about that.

That said, I do not think that drivers venting on the radio is a major failing, unless they are doing so with the singular purpose of illegitimately granting themselves an unwarranted advantage. But normal everyday venting following an occurence of the type we are discussing here, is normal to athletes in competitive sports. So I do not share your opinion that this is some kind of major failing that merits criticism. In the heat of the adrenaline pumped moment, drivers say all kinds of things; venting likely helps them get over the moment and refocus so that they can move on with success. After the race, they may see it in a different light, and that is as expected as not, depending on the incident and the driver.

Do you not want that?

What I want is immaterial. What Sebastian wants is what matters. I am certain he wants to improve his performance and I feel he is doing so over time by the best ways and means possible. As fans, we can second guess what those ways and means are, but it boils down to a fun exercise and nothing more, imo.

Edited by bourbon, 23 November 2012 - 22:04.

Great bash thread.

Great erroneous identification of a so-called "bash thread"

Hillarious! He just lost the lead of the race, and compromised his championship, not because of his driving, but because of a silly backmarker who didn't move away earlier.... I am sure all other F1 drivers would have been elated had that happened to them

Your unnecessary sarcasm notwithstanding, I was more referring to how he got on the radio, bitching to his team - not because of an unfair penalty, not because someone took him out, not because he had a mechanical failure but because someone had the audacity to simply pass him fair and square. He doesn't take being beaten very well. I personally found it highly amusing but then again I'm not a Vettel fanboy as I suspect you more than likely are.

Another amusing thread where people seemingly can't accept any opinion other than their own.

Oh yeah, you'll get a lot of that here...

It's not rejecting criticism in itself, it's the incessant hypocrite double standar of people bitching about Vettel doing this and that, and then being completely fine when Fernando Alonso and others display that exact same behavior. At least don't be such a hypocrite.

Not valid in the case of this thread, and not the intention of the thread starter either. (me). I would have started this thread had it been Hamilton, Raikkonen, Alonso, Webber whoever it was.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 24 November 2012 - 03:18.

It's not something I can demonstrate, because it's not every time of course and it's more tone of voice than anything. But that sarcastic "thank you boys" for a slow stop was real, from Silverstone last year possibly.

You must really hate Lewis then.

If Vettel upset you then you really don't want to hear my wife in traffic.

If Vettel upset you then you really don't want to hear my wife in traffic.

And she doesn't have to deal with drivers as bad as Karthikeyan.

As for the actual thread, I think it was the role of the HRT in the overtake that really frustrated him and rightly so; it wasn't Karthikeyan's fault but any driver leading the race would have been pissed in that situation. There is too much armchair judging of emotions going on, emotions expressed in a cauldron of pressure.

More generally, yes, Vettel is an incredibly bad loser. In my opinion the other two worst losers on the grid are Alonso and Hamilton. Notice a trend?

I do question the wisdom of making the complaint at the point he did; when Hamilton came to overtake him, Vettel made a move and then started to move back across the track just as Hamilton was overtaking. When the championship's on the line, and the last thing you need is to be distracted by penalties, investigations etc. that could have followed the incident (I'm not claiming it deserved a penalty, merely stating the observation it could have been given), drawing extra attention to the overall incident isn't very wise. Of course, in such a stressful situation wisdom is likely the last thing one thinks about.

At the time, I did have to laugh at Vettel's comment, because as a bystander I could see the irony of it. Now, though, I'm not sure whether I can blame him or not. Certainly he could try and keep the thoughts to himself, but that suggestion may not be a useful one.

You must really hate Lewis then.

Lol, weak. Hamilton is never sarcastic. Why don't you just post "I reject everything about it, whatever it is" followed by "na na ni na na"?

I do question the wisdom of making the complaint at the point he did; when Hamilton came to overtake him, Vettel made a move and then started to move back across the track just as Hamilton was overtaking. When the championship's on the line, and the last thing you need is to be distracted by penalties, investigations etc. that could have followed the incident (I'm not claiming it deserved a penalty, merely stating the observation it could have been given), drawing extra attention to the overall incident isn't very wise. Of course, in such a stressful situation wisdom is likely the last thing one thinks about.

At the time, I did have to laugh at Vettel's comment, because as a bystander I could see the irony of it. Now, though, I'm not sure whether I can blame him or not. Certainly he could try and keep the thoughts to himself, but that suggestion may not be a useful one.

I thought he'd stopped doing those sideways darts at other cars. This one was really dangerous IMO and far more deserving of a penalty than most of the moves that do get one. All of a piece with his words though.

Yep, for a split second, i thought we were going to see a Mclaren Aerial Display heading straight for the grandstand.

What was the point?

Yep, for a split second, i thought we were going to see a Mclaren Aerial Display heading straight for the grandstand.

What was the point?

Waving while a car is next to you is incredibly dangerous, Vettel and Hamilton were really lucky there no contact was made. Why Vettel would take such a pointless risk. He is not that good in side to side battles and it shows occasionally, this was one of those cases.

Lol, weak. Hamilton is never sarcastic. Why don't you just post "I reject everything about it, whatever it is" followed by "na na ni na na"?

Cuz thats not what I'm doing. And yes, I've heard Lewis be sarcastic before and just as antagonistic over the radio as Vettel has. I see very little difference between em.

Waving while a car is next to you is incredibly dangerous, Vettel and Hamilton were really lucky there no contact was made. Why Vettel would take such a pointless risk. He is not that good in side by side battles and it shows occasionally, this was one of those cases.

I was very surprised by that considering the whole championship battle. Imagine the tantrum we would have seen if contact was made.

Edited by bub, 24 November 2012 - 14:02.

This is a hilarious thread, full of sound and fury. But I'll take Alonso's tirades any day--they're MUCH more enjoyable than anyone else's" ALL-A DA TIME-A--YOU HAVE-A TO LEAVE-A D'SPACE-A!!!"

I thought he'd stopped doing those sideways darts at other cars. This one was really dangerous IMO and far more deserving of a penalty than most of the moves that do get one. All of a piece with his words though.

Nah, Vettel didn't deserve a penalty. He was aggressively defending his lead and within the rules with that. That's how it should be. They are there to race not let each other by. That was all well and good. It was just amusing that he had a little temper-tantrum after being overtaken.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 24 November 2012 - 23:10.

I think F1 drivers actually show remarkable restraint. They're at the top of their profession, hugely competitive and yet largely keep their cool. I know if I was in an F1 car with my temperament, I'd be bitching and moaning the whole race with plenty of four letter words.