Hamilton & Hulkenberg Brazil 2012 Incident [split]

Obviously a Hamilton fan but I rate Hulkenburg very highly as well, His mistake was understandable, he lost the rear in tricky conditions. I dont disagree with the DT, as it DID put the race leader out, so there has to be consequences. He'll be fine. Nico for me is a future WDC. I definitely wouldve liked to see him in the McLaren instead of Perez, but thats the way it goes sometimes. I think he may end up a Ferrari actually

Every collision is avoidable.

I do get what you're saying, it was 100% Hulk's fault but why should he be penalized? I saw other drivers doing half-spins and going out of the track and all sorts of minor mistakes, usual in the rain. They were just lucky they didn't touch other cars. Now every time you lose your car you get a penalty if you touch another car?

**** this everything-must-be-a-penalty bullshit attitude. You guys sound like card-happy Spanish football referees.

I think the mistake is understandable under this conditions. That does not mean it was not his fault, just something I would call a typical mistake when racing under such conditions and not some carelss bonehead move.

Agree with that.

100% Hulk's fault, entirely his mistake, but an understandable one given the conditions. The penalty was on the harsh side, IMO (even though he's got no one to blame but himself for getting it).

It is called racing and raining. Manure happens -- life goes on.

Hulk has no reason to apologize, it is not like he intentionally took Lewis out, right?

Let it go folks.

Agree with that.

100% Hulk's fault, entirely his mistake, but an understandable one given the conditions. The penalty was on the harsh side, IMO (even though he's got no one to blame but himself for getting it).

Edited by slmk, 26 November 2012 - 10:57.

The penalty was absolutely ludicrous. If ever there was a clear-cut racing incident, THAT WAS IT.

The fact that that was penalised and yet

- Vettel turns across Senna and puts him out of the race
- Kobayashi crashes into Webber's rear end and spins him to last
- Vergne and Schumacher collided in a similar manner (almost exactly the same!)
- Vettel potentially overtook under a yellow flag situation

WEREN'T EVEN INVESTIGATED, is absolutely a disgrace.

He clearly made a driving mistake that ended up with the race leader out of the race. I don't see the penalty as harsh at all - he made a driving mistake, which he could have avoided had he been less greedy (likely he would have passed him down the back straight).

Just like you said, not every mistake will get a penalty, only those which affecting others in a bad way will be penalized. Afterall what we want is just good sportmanship, not a lawless event.

Everyone's getting really pissed off with Hulkenburg because it was Lewis's last race for McLaren and Hulkenburg blew a guaranteed podium and probable win for LH and us fans. OK I was spitting beer at the TV yesterday when it happened, but it got the penalty it deserved and that's the end of it. No need to crucify the guy.

There are driving mistakes and then there are driving mistakes.

Where a driver does something that is clearly absolutely never going to work, and causes a collision, a penalty is not harsh IMO.

Where a driver does something that could work, and he just goes ever so slightly the wrong side of the line in very tricky conditions, then a penalty is on the harsh side IMO.

Like I said, I don't think he can blame anyone but himself for getting it. He put it in the stewards hands when he made the mistake, and whilst a penalty is harsh it's hardly completely unreasonable. But equally not penalising him wouldn't have been the end of the world either. It could have gone either way, IMO.

There are driving mistakes and then there are driving mistakes.

Where a driver does something that is clearly absolutely never going to work, and causes a collision, a penalty is not harsh IMO.

Where a driver does something that could work, and he just goes ever so slightly the wrong side of the line in very tricky conditions, then a penalty is on the harsh side IMO.

Like I said, I don't think he can blame anyone but himself for getting it. He put it in the stewards hands when he made the mistake, and whilst a penalty is harsh it's hardly completely unreasonable. But equally not penalising him wouldn't have been the end of the world either. It could have gone either way, IMO.

Edited by ForeverF1, 26 November 2012 - 11:26.

He clearly made a driving mistake that ended up with the race leader out of the race. I don't see the penalty as harsh at all - he made a driving mistake, which he could have avoided had he been less greedy (likely he would have passed him down the back straight).

Besides, Lewis got penalised for doing much less - ie. outbraking himself at the start of the race (Fuji 2008).

So other drivers intentionally want to take their opponent out when they were involved in a collision?

The penalty was absolutely ludicrous. If ever there was a clear-cut racing incident, THAT WAS IT.

The fact that that was penalised and yet

- Vettel turns across Senna and puts him out of the race
- Kobayashi crashes into Webber's rear end and spins him to last
- Vergne and Schumacher collided in a similar manner (almost exactly the same!)
- Vettel potentially overtook under a yellow flag situation

WEREN'T EVEN INVESTIGATED, is absolutely a disgrace.

Regarding

1) Stewards would not have had the guts to penalise the championship leader in the last race.
4) Vettel did not overtake under a yellow flag.

Where a driver does something that could work, and he just goes ever so slightly the wrong side of the line in very tricky conditions, then a penalty is on the harsh side IMO.

Again it is not about intentional or not. It is also not about aggressive/banzai move or not. It is about causing an avoidable collision. You can spin, went wide or even crash into the wall wherever you want as long as you do not take someone else with you, especially when the other guy is clearly trying to avoid you.

Now, where did I say that?

Some crashes are the result of truly awful driving -- happens. Most are racing incidents -- happens more often.

That is what I am saying.

Edited by alg7_munif, 26 November 2012 - 11:38.

I thought the penalty was on the harsh side. Hulkenberg was alongside Hamilton when he made a mistake on the wet track and drifted into Hamilton, who had nowhere to go being trapped behind the Caterham. It certainly wasn't deliberate, and in the dry he would of got cleanly past, but perhaps he should of accounted for that before he made the move.

This mirrows almost exactly mine opinion. BTW Wurz pretty much saw the penalty coming considering the make-up of the stewarts and the accident.

I'm not too down on Hulk over making the mistake, it is fairly early in his career after all. I am disappointed that he didn't apologise though, and like quite a few people I'm all the more disappointed because I have liked him.

Even if it is truly awful driving, I doubt any of those drivers intentionally want to take out their opponent. So defending Nico by saying it was not intentional is a moot point since most if not all collisions are not intentional.

Edited by Pothead4Philosopher, 26 November 2012 - 12:17.

Again it is not about intentional or not. It is also not about aggressive/banzai move or not. It is about causing an avoidable collision. You can spin, went wide or even crash into the wall wherever you want as long as you do not take someone else with you, especially when the other guy is clearly trying to avoid you.

I heard that aswell. Wurz was saying during the raec he knows the steward of the race, and that he was a person that likes to give out penaltys.

For those saying the penalty was too harsh, shall we presume you would be happy if Hulkenberg had won the race, after taking the lead by breaking Hamiltons car?

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 November 2012 - 12:18.

It's NEVER been a rule that if you lose the car and happen to take someone else with you, you must be penalized. They penalize when you are reckless, not when you take someone out.

I Guess he was reckless then...

The incident with Lewis was a textbook racing incident. He wasn't too aggressive, he didn't brake too late, he gave enough room. Due to the conditions his back stepped out. The penalty was idiotic. But his comments that Lewis should have given more room are misplaced.

Edited by Nigol, 26 November 2012 - 12:20.

If spinning is reckless then penalize everyone who spins and takes somebody out.

If spinning is reckless then penalize everyone who spins.

Edited by f1fastestlap, 26 November 2012 - 12:27.

fixed that for you. what's so hard to understand about making a mistake and getting a penalty for taking someone out of the race? you can spin on every lap if you wish to do so, but if you're gonna collect other drivers, you'll be penalized. it's quite simple really

Driver steward was TomK. I don't think there is a history of especially many penalties when he serves. So Wurz must be referring to the other stewards.

Or is Mr. Wurz just not a fan of TomK from sportscars and just got a little dig in, when TomK couldn't defend himself? Things that make you go hmmm..........