Alonso claims that Grosjean and Vettels quali in Japan cost the title

Wrong. Alonso in this very case said nothing about his car being too slow. Read the thread title.

And in a former post, I said that avoidable accidents are not bad luck. Vettel/Kart was avoidable. By BOTH drivers.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 26 November 2012 - 15:04.

He is the Casey Stoner of F1. He can't speak the truth without being labelled "moaner", "sour" or "horrible" etc.

If you just analyse Vettel and Alonso, Alo sure lost more points than Vettel for external factors. I'm afraid you cannot say that alternator issues are external. It's part of the team, and you win and loose with the team.

Edited by yr, 26 November 2012 - 15:15.

If we´re talking about driver´s merits, a car failing IS a external reason.

If we´re talking about driver´s merits, a car failing IS a external reason.

What the heck are you telling me?? When did I talk about that or anything remotely related? [...]

Edited by FirstWatt, 26 November 2012 - 15:15.

"It is a shame because, after such a long season that we really fight in all conditions, we raced 18 races and not 20 - and being second by three points is not a lot. But that is the way it is."

The team boss added that the title had not been lost in Brazil but rather earlier in the season in Belgium and Japan.

"Watch the facts," he told Autosport. "Zero points in two races so we have done what we have done with 18 races.

"The others had 20 - and the points were over 20 races. These are facts, not words."



Dom here is also being pretty creative with his facts...but very predictable in his honesty.

Edited by H2H, 26 November 2012 - 15:16.

If we are talking about a driver's merit, having a much quicker car surely is an external reason too then.

Sorry off topic, but do you think Räikkönen is not humble and respectful or just not considering him as a top driver?

On topic:

Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic)
Difficulty with empathy
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries)
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury)
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt
Haughty body language
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
Pretending to be more important than they really are
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
Denial of remorse and gratitude

Anyone else seeing Fernando there? These comments of him are traditional FA.

Well, in this thread alone, I think by now there are two different explanations of what he might have referred to. I will add a third one: the "creative" gearbox penalty use at Austin.

I think the fact that posters in this forum can find three different suspect instances speaks for itself...

Now then, if you wanna be perfectly honest, then certainly you cant call RBs alternator problems part of the game unless you call Ferraris minor lack of pace part of the game too. eh?
" You win and lose with team" .Right. the car that the team has designed - fast or not- is certainly part of the teamwork, dont you think.

Now then, if you wanna be perfectly honest, then certainly you cant call RBs alternator problems part of the game unless you call Ferraris minor lack of pace part of the game too. eh?
" You win and lose with team" .Right. the car that the team has designed - fast or not- is certainly part of the teamwork, dont you think.

Brilliant driver, horrible personality.

Alonso is not talking about his driver merit's, but the team as a whole.

If you just analyse Vettel and Alonso, Alo sure lost more points than Vettel for external factors. I'm afraid you cannot say that alternator issues are external. It's part of the team, and you win and loose with the team.

Sour grapes, maybe, but he's speaking the truth. Raikkonen in Japan at the start, Grosjean in Spa, and the lack of a penalty in Japan for Vettel all added up to cost him the title. If he had won, Vettel could rightly say the same thing about some of his retirements. It's the nature of losing to look back and figure out why you lost and what caused it, and for each of them there were many things that were out of their control that cost them points. I don't think it reflects poorly on him for pointing those things out, it's not like he's saying anyone cheated, he's just disappointed.

Alonso is simply being ballsy enough to state the truth: since Spa every incident that has destroyed his championship has involved Renault-engined cars or Red Bull-sponsored cars.
Manipulating a championship for -a lot of- money can be done. IMO, has been done. Ferrari also questioned on their website the "serendipitous" safety cars that saved Vettel's day.

"It is a shame because, after such a long season that we really fight in all conditions, we raced 18 races and not 20 - and being second by three points is not a lot. But that is the way it is."

The team boss added that the title had not been lost in Brazil but rather earlier in the season in Belgium and Japan.

"Watch the facts," he told Autosport. "Zero points in two races so we have done what we have done with 18 races.

"The others had 20 - and the points were over 20 races. These are facts, not words."



Dom here is also being pretty creative with his facts...but very predictable in his honesty.

Alonso just underperformed in the last 2 races and the last 2 Qualifying he can try to avert attention from that but the sad truth is his teammate was faster then him and more aggressive then him when it was his time to shine.

Who said otherwise?? Listen dude, you´re not discussing anything with a fanboy. You don´t need to throw obvious truths that I will deny because it matches my agenda. RB was a faster car overall.

Read again what I said: "Alonso has no right to complain like this because he´s acting as if only he had misfortunes during the season." Anything to say about that?

[...] Do you hear Vettel crying about his misfortune and how he should have it in the bag before last round?

Edited by toxicfusion, 26 November 2012 - 15:46.

What is your problem? Isn't it true that he lost loads of points in Spa and Suzuka, two races which Vettel won?! Sour grapes my ass, he just tells the facts

Edited by TheF1BOB, 26 November 2012 - 15:47.

Now we know how everything works out, Spa is actually an influential piece of the jigsaw that is this years Championship.

Grosjean wiped out Hamilton (at a time where he was still with a shout) and Alonso along with the two Saubers. All four qualified ahead of Vettel at Spa.

If all 4 has raced it is reasonable to assume they would have finished (at least 2 lets say) ahead of Vettel, the gap doesn't shrink so (or it actually grows by a couple of points) and the Championship is still in favour of Alonso.


The other mistakes that cost Alonso were what occurred in Japan at the start of the race and also the strategic decision to remain out in Canada, had they followed McLaren and Lewis, Fernando may have finished on the podium or at the very least ahead of Vettel.


All in all, 1 mistake by Fernando, 1 mistake by the team and 1 act of out of their hands in the form of the stupidity from Grosjean.

You are saying Vettel does not cry???
Apart that, after being in such a good position and then winning the WDC it's easy not to complain, thats certain.

I bet Vettel would have cried about several things too if he lost the WDC.
Or do you really think otherwise?

The team boss added that the title had not been lost in Brazil but rather earlier in the season in Belgium and Japan.

"Watch the facts," he told Autosport. "Zero points in two races so we have done what we have done with 18 races.

"The others had 20 - and the points were over 20 races. These are facts, not words."


Oh dear,oh dear dom - those are not facts, or do they mean Kimi as "the others". Wasn´t he the only who finished all the races

Edited by mnmracer, 26 November 2012 - 15:49.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 26 November 2012 - 15:54.

If, if and if. Didn't happen, get over it!

Edited by toxicfusion, 26 November 2012 - 15:53.

Edited by seahawk, 26 November 2012 - 16:27.

Vettel lost in Valencia more than Alonso lost the entire season.

/thread

Bunch of muppets! He's just lost the WDV he's entitled to have a moan its HUMAN NATURE no being a sore loser! Jeeeeeeez give the guy a break!!

Any driver would look back at the season and pick out the events that hindered their championship

Edited by FenderJaguar, 26 November 2012 - 15:59.

Bunch of muppets! He's just lost the WDV he's entitled to have a moan its HUMAN NATURE no being a sore loser! Jeeeeeeez give the guy a break!!

Any driver would look back at the season and pick out the events that hindered their championship

Yes... retiring from 1 race makes up for retiring in 2.

Great logic.

What is your problem? Isn't it true that he lost loads of points in Spa and Suzuka, two races which Vettel won?! Sour grapes my ass, he just tells the facts

Tomorrow:
"Watch the facts," Horner told Autosport. "Zero points in three races so we have done what we have done with 17 races.

And this "We have done..." part would be wrong. Because in two races it was the team ("we") not building a sufficiently reliable car.

Edited by boldhakka, 26 November 2012 - 16:17.

This is definitely untrue, I've seen numerous drivers not do this after a lost title fight.



Serious? Vettel lost 32 points to Alonso in Valencia.

Alonso lost about 12-18 points to Vettel in Spa.

Suzuka was completely Alonsos fault, this is undisputable.

i may be a bit dumb, but since when there's given 32 points for victory?

Edited by onemoresolo, 26 November 2012 - 16:27.

Isn't it true that he lost loads of points in Spa and Suzuka, two races which Vettel won?!

Tomorrow:
"Watch the facts," Horner told Autosport. "Zero points in three races so we have done what we have done with 17 races.

"Alonso had 18 - and the points were over 18 races. These are facts, not words."

Edited by SpaceHorseParty, 26 November 2012 - 16:36.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 26 November 2012 - 16:42.