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Best overtaker in F1

Started by Trust , Nov 27 2012 16:54

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206 replies to this topic

Poll: Best overtaker in F1 (450 member(s) have cast votes)

Who is the best overtaker in F1 right now?

  1. Sebastian Vettel (38 votes [8.44%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.44%

  2. Mark Webber (5 votes [1.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.11%

  3. Lewis Hamilton (152 votes [33.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.78%

  4. Jenson Button (26 votes [5.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.78%

  5. Fernando Alonso (48 votes [10.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.67%

  6. Felipe Massa (6 votes [1.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.33%

  7. Kimi Raikkonen (154 votes [34.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.22%

  8. Romain Grosjean (9 votes [2.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.00%

  9. Other(Specify) (12 votes [2.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.67%

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#1 Trust

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:54

I've included only drivers from four top teams(because the best drivers are usually in best cars), but you can specify your favourite one outside of this eight.
Please keep in mind that we aren't discussing number of overtakes, only quality.
Discuss.

For me personally Kimi=Lewis right now, though I voted for Kimi just because this year he had a couple of spectacular ones.

Edited by Trust, 27 November 2012 - 16:56.

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#2 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:57

First, you have to define what you mean by "best" overtaker.

#3 choyothe

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:57

From the options, anyone from Hamilton, Kimi and Vettel.

#4 Topsu

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 16:59

Kimi's overtaking was greatly limited by the poor acceleration of the Lotus. It didn't gain speed quickly enough to challenge slower cars. But when Kimi got on someone's side, it was often beautiful. Even so I'd say that Alonso is the best overtaker. He rarely misses an opportunity.

#5 XOR

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:01

Pre-DRS era: Lewis/Kamui.

DRS+Pirelli: i don't care

#6 SpartanChas

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:01

Kimi, Lewis, fernando, Jenson.

#7 Watkins74

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:02

I would have to give that honor to Lewis Hamilton.

#8 Trust

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:02

First, you have to define what you mean by "best" overtaker.

Best overtaker is subjective category, but it is the one who makes the very clean moves but can also be a spectacular. The person you trust most that it won't screw the duel while doing the overtake. Wheel to wheel racing on the top. Also, the person who grabs even the slight chance to overtake can be taken into account. Some drivers overtake easier, some harder. I think it is pretty clear that best overtaker can't be Maldonado or Grosjean, other top drivers in comparison with them are in another league. Now we are just comparing who is the best among those top drivers.

Edited by Trust, 27 November 2012 - 17:04.

#9 Richard T

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:03

Pastor Maldonado.

#10 robefc

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:04

Kimi's overtaking was greatly limited by the poor acceleration of the Lotus. It didn't gain speed quickly enough to challenge slower cars. But when Kimi got on someone's side, it was often beautiful. Even so I'd say that Alonso is the best overtaker. He rarely misses an opportunity.


Judgement wise I certainly think that alonso knows when to take risks and when not to.

I'd still intuitively say Lewis in terms of wheel to wheel skills, I also think he's a great defender, both opinions kind of involve forgetting 2011 mind.

Hard not to be impressed with Vettel this season though, particularly early in the season.

One thing that really got me was how quickly vettel made up places in Abu Dhabi and Brazil. I thought F1 was supposed to be closer than ever etc but he was back up front in not time. Contrast that to say Lewis in Brazil 2007.

Regardless of your views of Lewis and vettel I think it's plain that they're pretty close in terms of pace so that differential is interesting in terms of what it means regarding top car versus the midfield/backmarkers.

Edited by robefc, 27 November 2012 - 17:04.

#11 scheivlak

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:04

Other: Kamui Kobayashi :cool:

#12 Raifosa

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:06

Best overtaker is subjective category, but it is the one who makes the very clean moves but can also be a spectacular. The person you trust most that it won't screw the duel while doing the overtake. Wheel to wheel racing on the top. Also, the person who grabs even the slight chance to overtake can be taken into account. Some drivers overtake easier, some harder. I think it is pretty clear that best overtaker can't be Maldonado or Grosjean, other top drivers in comparison with them are in another league. Now we are just comparing who is the best among those top drivers.

So why waste a poll option on Grosjean then?

#13 Trust

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:08

So why waste a poll option on Grosjean then?

Because Grosjean had great overtakes in GP2 and is in top4 car. As I've mentioned this is subjective category, so for someone he can be the best.

#14 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:08

Clearly Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton

#15 UPRC

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:10

Other: Kamui Kobayashi :cool:


That. :up:

#16 jrg19

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:10

Lewis, but would have to mention Kimi as the fairest, he knows when he's lost the battle unlike some others on the grid.

#17 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:11

Because Grosjean had great overtakes in GP2 and is in top4 car. As I've mentioned this is subjective category, so for someone he can be the best.

As you say, it is a subjective category. Naturally, the poll will gravitate to a 'favourite driver poll'.

#18 fabr68

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:12

Hamilton

#19 Zava

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:12

Kimi, hands down. from the top5 overtakes this year, he's got what, 5? :smoking:

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#20 Jimisgod

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:13

As you say, it is a subjective category. Naturally, the poll will gravitate to a 'favourite driver poll'.


I voted for Grosjean, so it very definitely isn't a fav driver poll. :p

#21 Mc_Silver

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:13

Lewis and Kimi are the best for me.

#22 ForeverF1

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:17

I voted for Grosjean, so it very definitely isn't a fav driver poll. :p

What part of 'gravitate' do you not understand?

#23 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:18

Pastor Maldonado.

He was in 2011 :p

#24 showtime

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:23

I would say Hamilton. I used to think he was a bit crazy and relied too much on the driver he was overtaking on a "I'm going to put my car there, your choice if this finishes with both out of the race or not" way. Pretty much what Kobayashi does and the reason I think he's way overrated. Taking more risks is not the same as being a better overtaker because that way sometimes it pays off but many times it ends with a DNF. I've got the feeling that Hamilton has matured a lot and he has become wiser in this area reaching a balance point that IMO makes him the best overtaker.

Edited by showtime, 27 November 2012 - 18:12.

#25 amarelo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:38

Kamui

#26 MattPete

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:40

Kobayashi

#27 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:41

With DRS it's nearly impossible to say...

Kobayashi/ Hamilton/ Button, and maybe also Vettel (hard to tell due to DRS, but I think he's shown enough to at least discount the image of him as struggling with overtaking.)

Edited by P123, 27 November 2012 - 17:43.

#28 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:43

Kimi Räikkönen with this generation of cars that allow close racing for long periods. He has best spacial awareness and decission making on the grid.

Lewis Hamilton with pre 2009 cars when being the best on the brakes counted the most. With current cars he´s not smart enough to handle long scraps where he must give others room.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 27 November 2012 - 17:52.

#29 oligc94

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:47

Hamilton hands down. Some of his overtakes are just genius, and it's why I'm such a fan. I mean come on, taking two cars round the outside on the first corner of his first race is something special.

For me it's also the fact that he could do it in the pre-DRS era on so many occasions. I love this video: I really shows the panache, bravery and imagination that he shows when overtaking.

Edited by oligc94, 27 November 2012 - 17:54.

#30 Invisibloke

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:47

Kimi without a doubt. He's knows exactly what he can and can't do, where to put his car, how much space to leave and how close he can put his car alongside the other, all without a fuss or any dramas. And he does this in spectacular fashion too, especially considering he has a car that is useless in the DRS zones.

#31 bub

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:51

Kobayashi
Hamilton
Raikkonen
Button
Vettel
Alonso

I don't think there is one best overtaker.

#32 Der Pate

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:53

I´m surprised, that Vettel got only 7%, as we already know, that he had the most overtaking-manouevres in 2012...

I´m also surprised about the high percentage of Hamilton, as he has the advantage of a very strong Mercedes-engine compared to the Renault of Kimi...and I also remember the most stupid manouevres made by Lewis...

British Forum?

#33 MattPete

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:56

British Forum?



AtlasF1 was American.

#34 Muppetmad

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:56

I´m surprised, that Vettel got only 7%, as we already know, that he had the most overtaking-manouevres in 2012...

I´m also surprised about the high percentage of Hamilton, as he has the advantage of a very strong Mercedes-engine compared to the Renault of Kimi...and I also remember the most stupid manouevres made by Lewis...

British Forum?


Quality, not quantity.

I also genuinely don't remember any stupid manoeuvres from Lewis this year, could you give some examples? :)

#35 oligc94

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:57

I´m surprised, that Vettel got only 7%, as we already know, that he had the most overtaking-manouevres in 2012...

I´m also surprised about the high percentage of Hamilton, as he has the advantage of a very strong Mercedes-engine compared to the Renault of Kimi...and I also remember the most stupid manouevres made by Lewis...

British Forum?


Yeah sure - British people inevitably support Hamilton... :rolleyes:

Perhaps it's because throughout his career in both junior formulae and F1, Hamilton has shown natural overtaking ability. Perhaps, rather than just suggesting it's due to national bias, actually engage with the issue and provide proper justification for suggesting that Lewis is not as good as the poll seems to suggest...

#36 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:57

Schumacher last year was brilliant. At Germany and Valencia he was very good also.

Hamilton is a natural at it.

Vettel surprised me this year at Abu Dhabi and Interlagos. I did not think he had it in him.

#37 itsademo

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 17:58

I´m surprised, that Vettel got only 7%, as we already know, that he had the most overtaking-manouevres in 2012...

I´m also surprised about the high percentage of Hamilton, as he has the advantage of a very strong Mercedes-engine compared to the Renault of Kimi...and I also remember the most stupid manouevres made by Lewis...

British Forum?

not really its much more about the fact people here also understand how much the car has played a part in vettells overtakes.
While lewis is liable to make just as many passes no matter how good or bad the car is something we are yet to see vettel able to match so far.

#38 Lelouch

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:10

As of 2012, Kimi by a mile or more imo. Followed by Hamilton maybe and then Vettel + Alonso. Last year Schumacher was pretty great but this year he was at the receiving end mostly.

#39 Jackmancer

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:12

I laughted at the Grosjean option in the poll. Damn that guy is becoming a meme himself :p

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#40 Cenotaph

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:12

The best overtaker is whoever has the best top speed.

#41 PretentiousBread

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:18

My vote goes to Hamilton, but I'm surprised more people aren't saying Alonso. He has been insane in the overtaking department this year, it's arguably been the basis of his title challenge - repeated, opportunistic, high risk manoeuvres.

#42 discover23

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:19

To me the best overtaker is the driver who sees opportunities where other don't. This is my definition and based on this I go with Lewis just like Montoya before him.
Alonso comes second.

#43 Vesuvius

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:22

Kimi this year has been best overtaker (without DRS), one only need to look at his overtakes: Di Resta at hockenheim, Schumi at spa, Hulkenberg at Austin and Schumi at Interlagos for example.

#44 SenorSjon

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:24

Schumacher... He did brilliant stuff at Monaco in many a race. Hamilton is a great overtaker as well. Vettel not so. He got in more than enoug trouble hitting or getting hit in the midfield. And passing the Torro Rossos is no challenge.

#45 rubbersoul

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:29


definitely Kimi!

#46 Wander

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:34

Pre-DRS era: Lewis/Kamui.

DRS+Pirelli: i don't care


Kimi recently said that he didn't find the overtaking to be much easier at all with DRS, but that could be due to his car being slow in a straight line.

#47 William Hunt

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:35

One year ago Kobayashi would probably be leading or close to the top of such a poll, now people seem to have forgotten about him.

Edited by William Hunt, 27 November 2012 - 18:35.

#48 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:43

Hamilton and Kimi, nobody else comes close.

#49 P123

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:48

The best overtaker is whoever has the best top speed.


One of the Toro Rosso drivers then. Which one?

#50 Wander

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 18:55

One year ago Kobayashi would probably be leading or close to the top of such a poll, now people seem to have forgotten about him.


Kobayashi is not in the poll so I didn't vote for him.
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