Worst WDC Ever

Hill is ridiculously underrated. He faired well against Prost, was pushed into leading the WIlliams team due to tradgedy, came close to winning that championship, admittedly had a scrappy '95 but came back and won in '96 against Villeneuve, nearly won in an Arrows, won in a Jordan and his 'Newey car' percentages aren't far off Vettel's. He also had some fine drives in the wet. I guess it's fashionable to dismiss his talents, purely for the crime of being not quite as good as Schumacher.

I never liked Hill, but these are fair points. As others have said there are no 'bad' world champions, so I'll come at this another way: if you put all the WDCs I've watched in the last 25 years in the same car for a season who do I think would come last? Assuming everyone was at their best it's hard not to come down Damon and Button, though not neccessarily by as far as some might think. Who'd be last? Toss a coin ...

D. Hill
Button
Mansell

All won their titles with suprerior cars. With a good teammate they're just paper, nothing.

Edited by MightyMoose, 13 December 2012 - 02:04.
Since my previous post went missing, here's it again. From worst to to still-pretty-bad: <- Please, Don't discuss moderation

In terms of F1 I can speak of (which means going back to the mid 80's or so) I would have to say Jenson, much as I like him.

Raikonnens title year wasn't his best, but he had driven well enough in previous years to have earned it, and I think Damon did enough against Prost and in a very difficult 1994, and of course Jacques came to F1 already an accomplished champion. JBs title kinda came out of nowhere, and very nearly slipped away from him once the car was no longer as dominant. Nice guy and has had some bona fida impressive race wins with McLaren, but not someone I would look to spearhead a WDC campaign.

There's an important distinction here that I think needs to be made. Are we looking to find the worst driver to have ever won a WDC, or are we trying to find the least impressive WDC season? For example, I don't find Button's WDC to be very magical, but I don't think he's the worst driver to have ever won it. People like to laugh at someone like Villeneuve but a lot of us like to forget he was a killer from the get go in F1, fresh off an incredibly victory in the Indianapolis 500 (came from 2 laps down to win, in the days before any "letting the backmarkers get a lap back" deals). The thing is, a lot of forummers here started following F1 when Villeneuve was on the way down (which is something all drivers eventually do, by the way). The man is pure entertainment, good or bad, in the races he does now, but we shouldn't let that distract us from the fact that he was one of only a handful of drivers to straight up beat Michael Schumacher to a title, and that he still holds the record for most wins by a driver in a rookie season with 4 (later tied in 2007 by the forum's golden boy, Lewis Hamilton). That's just an example, we can all make similar cases for most drivers bound to be mentioned in here.

And let's remember.. saying a guy was the worst F1 Driver's Champion is a bit like pointing to a pack of foxes on a stage somewhere and labelling one of them as the ugliest supermodel. It doesn't really mean anything in the end.

If it's worst driver to ever win a WDC, this is what I'd vote from my experience watching them, or from what I can reasonably guess about a driver from reading reports and whatnot from people who saw it happen:

1) Jones
2) Rosberg
3) Hill

If it's least impressive WDC season, regardless of driver talent, this is my top 3, even though they begin to overlap:

1) Rosberg
2) Hill
3) Button

Good point, perhaps I misunderstood but based on post 10 I was thinking in terms of least impressive road to victory, so I'd thought of Prost 86 or Kimi 2007 on the basis that on both occasions another team lost it. I definitely don't think either of those are the worst drivers, thinking about it I can't think of any ex WDC that wasn't a top driver. A obvious candidate might have been Massa in 07... Humm I think I'll go with James Hunt as the weakest actual WDC... This is all relative though - I'm not saying he was rubbish by a long shot!

Since my previous post went missing, here's it again. From worst to to still-pretty-bad:
D. Hill
Button
Mansell

All won their titles with suprerior cars. With a good teammate they're just paper, nothing.

By that criteria, why is Vettel not on your list? Too German perhaps?...

Since my previous post went missing, here's it again. From worst to to still-pretty-bad:
D. Hill
Button
Mansell

All won their titles with suprerior cars. With a good teammate they're just paper, nothing.

With Mansell I would say he earned his title in previous years. Even though 1992 was a gimme, for me he had shown himself to be enough of a racer in the 80s to deserve it. Bearing in mind Mansell was in the shadow of Prost and Senna (and Piquet too, really) I think he acqutited himself very well.

2004.

No competition for Ferrari. McLaren was a shitbox, Williams had its walrus heap and Ferrari ran away with it.

Renault looked like it was building up to 2005, but every other team bar Ferrari was having issues. And the season basically saw the death of Williams as a force for the next decade.

Edited by Jimisgod, 12 December 2012 - 22:37.

I don't think Hill is the worst WDC ever but his title campaign in 96 was one of the worst I've seen.
He had some good races that year but also some terrible races like Spain, Nurnburgring, Monza, just to name a few.


So for me, Hill not the worst WDC but the worst title campaign.

2004.

No competition for Ferrari. McLaren was a shitbox, Williams had its walrus heap and Ferrari ran away with it.

Renault looked like it was building up to 2005, but every other team bar Ferrari was having issues. And the season basically saw the death of Williams as a force for the next decade.

Surely the least exciting WDC title battle I've ever seen.

I don't think Hill is the worst WDC ever but his title campaign in 96 was one of the worst I've seen.
He had some good races that year but also some terrible races like Spain, Nurnburgring, Monza, just to name a few.


So for me, Hill not the worst WDC but the worst title campaign.

Even considering the superiority of the FW16, it´s not too shabby being on the front row of the grid in every single race and winning 8 out of 16.

And as you mentioned Spain: Of course Hill looked silly, but that were the worst track conditions since Adelaide 1991 and today we only would hear "It´s undriveable, stop the race" etc.. Just 6 drivers managed to finish the race.

Edited by LiJu914, 12 December 2012 - 22:15.

This thread is about its worthieness, and I'll repeat that without Mike Coughlain and a photocopier, Kimi would not have won that title in 2007. I think its you that needs to do the research.

How did Mike Coughlan help Kimi+Ferrari 2007 campaign?

Allegations against Mike Coughlan
http://en.wikipedia....age_controversy
A Scuderia Ferrari press release said:[7]
“Ferrari announces it has recently presented a case against Nigel Stepney and an engineer from the Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes team [named by Autosport.com as Coughlan] with the Modena Tribunal, concerning the theft of technical information. Furthermore, legal action has been instigated in England and a search warrant has been issued concerning the engineer. This produced a positive outcome."

The search warrant is understood to have been related to Coughlan's home and the "positive outcome" is reported to be documents claimed to have originated at Ferrari's Maranello factory.[8] Stepney's dismissal from Ferrari had been announced earlier the same day.[9]

Thursday, September 13 2007
The second hearing commences. McLaren driver Lewis Hamilton is called as a witness. Following the hearing it is announced that McLaren is to be fined million, have their points stripped from the 2007 Constructor's Championship, and be required to submit their 2008 car designs to the FIA by December 2007, pending exclusion from the 2008 championship if they are found to contain Ferrari's intellectual property. McLaren's drivers are not directly affected.[30]

Edited by BackOnTop, 13 December 2012 - 05:10.

Rinehart is on a mission here to prove that Jenson's WDC is far more impressive than Kimi's. Which is of course, laughable.

Raikkonen 2007 was possibly the best driving F1's seen in at least a decade. Amazing the bitterness. Of course, it'll only get worse and worse the more he continues to do well and Alonso and Hamilton continue to not win

As far as providing an actually honest answer to the question -- unfortunately, I know if I gave the honest answer then it would spark a tremendously aggressive assault (ie more than just a defense) from certain fan brigades, so it's basically overall better I not state it.

Rinehart is on a mission here to prove that Jenson's WDC is far more impressive than Kimi's. Which is of course, laughable.

Especially considering it was Raikkonen's car design that got copied

Good point, perhaps I misunderstood but based on post 10 I was thinking in terms of least impressive road to victory, so I'd thought of Prost 86 or Kimi 2007 on the basis that on both occasions another team lost it. I definitely don't think either of those are the worst drivers, thinking about it I can't think of any ex WDC that wasn't a top driver.

What?

The Williams was clearly the best car in 86, yet Prost won. How does that qualify as a poor WDC? It´s exactly the opposite.

Kimi's title 2007 was won in one of the best championship battles in history of F1...never had three and almost four drivers scored more than 100 points in one season at the same time and it hasn't happened after that either...and those points show how high quality season it was from all of those four! I agree it wasn't Kimi's best season in F1 but it was no here near the weakest WDC season...actually there has been much more bad ones than better ones.

By that token, I'm not selecting drivers but individual championships and by two criteria:

Mega or cheat cars.

- 2004, Schumacher - Car and tyres far superior to all else. Bitch teammate.
- 1994, Schumacher - Dirty tricks by both Benetton and Schumi. 99% chance it was an illegal car.
- 1992, Mansell - Car truly was far superior to all else. Useless teammate.
- 2002, Schumacher - Car and tyres far superior to all else, though less than 2004. Ultra bitch teammate.
- 2011, Vettel - Again, car superior to all else (Newey). However we are closer to a spec series today.
- 1997, Villeneuve - Faster car than all else (Newey), never did much afterwards. Schumacher was a better driver that year.

Other drivers had more wins or appeared to be faster. This one is harder due to lack of reliability in past years and all are very debatable.

- 1958, Hawthorn - Moss had 4 wins to the 1 of Hawthorn. Sad to say it, but despite his 2 wins in years prior, Hawthorn was not the driver Moss was. Even Tony Brooks had 3 wins.
- 1982, Rosberg - Watson, Prost, Lauda, Arnoux all had more wins that year, as did Pironi... but he was out for obvious reasons.
- 1983, Piquet - Prost had 4 wins to Nelson's 3. And Prost had more unreliability.
- 1988, Senna - Not more wins, but had we counted all races Prost would have won.
- 1967, Hulme - Clark had more wins with 3 to the 2 of Hulme, but the Lotus had awful reliability. Hulme scored no poles to the 5 of Clark. Hulme earned it with great drives all the way up to 1974 and 6 more wins though.
- 2008, Hamilton - Probably Lewis' messiest season. Massa had more wins, and still would have been equal without the Spa debacle and his issues in Hungary while leading. Then he took a spring to the head and was never the same. Kubica had a real shot in a pretty slow car before the final few races.
- 1987, Piquet - Mansell appeared to be faster most of the year.

By that token, I'm not selecting drivers but individual championships and by two criteria:

Mega or cheat cars.

- 2004, Schumacher - Car and tyres far superior to all else. Bitch teammate.
- 1994, Schumacher - Dirty tricks by both Benetton and Schumi. 99% chance it was an illegal car.
- 1992, Mansell - Car truly was far superior to all else. Useless teammate.
- 2002, Schumacher - Car and tyres far superior to all else, though less than 2004. Ultra bitch teammate.
- 2011, Vettel - Again, car superior to all else (Newey). However we are closer to a spec series today.
- 1997, Villeneuve - Faster car than all else (Newey), never did much afterwards. Schumacher was a better driver that year.

Other drivers had more wins or appeared to be faster. This one is harder due to lack of reliability in past years and all are very debatable.

- 1958, Hawthorn - Moss had 4 wins to the 1 of Hawthorn. Sad to say it, but despite his 2 wins in years prior, Hawthorn was not the driver Moss was. Even Tony Brooks had 3 wins.
- 1982, Rosberg - Watson, Prost, Lauda, Arnoux all had more wins that year, as did Pironi... but he was out for obvious reasons.
- 1983, Piquet - Prost had 4 wins to Nelson's 3. And Prost had more unreliability.
- 1988, Senna - Not more wins, but had we counted all races Prost would have won.
- 1967, Hulme - Clark had more wins with 3 to the 2 of Hulme, but the Lotus had awful reliability. Hulme scored no poles to the 5 of Clark. Hulme earned it with great drives all the way up to 1974 and 6 more wins though.
- 2008, Hamilton - Probably Lewis' messiest season. Massa had more wins, and still would have been equal without the Spa debacle and his issues in Hungary while leading. Then he took a spring to the head and was never the same. Kubica had a real shot in a pretty slow car before the final few races.
- 1987, Piquet - Mansell appeared to be faster most of the year.

The thread is about the worst driver ever to achieve a world championship, and you're really nominating Schumi because of the years he had a superior car?

What about the years he clearly did not have the best car but he was still the competition to beat to win the title? Did that count for nothing? Just because some years he had the best car doesn't make all of his titles worthless, surely?

Even considering the superiority of the FW16, it´s not too shabby being on the front row of the grid in every single race and winning 8 out of 16.

True, but considering the advantage of the car and Hills speciality in leading from the front he ought to have done much better. More like Vettels 11 campaign.
But he had many mediocre races in 96 and let his rookie teammate come within a shot of WDC. It was almost painful to see Hill squander the cars advantage in many races.

And as you mentioned Spain: Of course Hill looked silly, but that were the worst track conditions since Adelaide 1991 and today we only would hear "It´s undriveable, stop the race" etc.. Just 6 drivers managed to finish the race.

Yeah it was a chaotic race and as you say today it would have been red flagged.
Nevertheless Hill spun 3 times, finally crashing at the pit wall.
While his rookie teammate, who admitedly not so good in wet weather conditions, finished 3d.

Hamilton. Won only because Piquet crashed in Singapore.

Kimi's title 2007 was won in one of the best championship battles in history of F1...never had three and almost four drivers scored more than 100 points in one season at the same time and it hasn't happened after that either...and those points show how high quality season it was from all of those four! I agree it wasn't Kimi's best season in F1 but it was no here near the weakest WDC season...actually there has been much more bad ones than better ones.

Kimi's driving the second half of that season was like nothing anyone thought was remotely impossible. His haters, of course, like to interpret his dominance as "McLaren imploded" I regret it everytime they bring up the season and I swallow the bait, however...

Edited by 2ms, 12 December 2012 - 22:58.

Ironically, I think that the most genuinely "worst" was Schuey in 1994. Caught cheating with the regulations - and then shunting Hill off the road. Classy........ Not.........

Despite Michael's apparent talent it has to be said that 1994 must be the worst WDC - many circumstances contributing to it: the tragedy of the year, the cheating, the attack on Damon Hill in Australia....

From all the drivers I've seen:
-Scheckter
-Rosberg
-Button

Despite Michael's apparent talent it has to be said that 1994 must be the worst WDC - many circumstances contributing to it: the tragedy of the year, the cheating, the attack on Damon Hill in Australia....

Michael Schumacher seems to be the Jesse Ventura of Formula 1, "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!"
They share the same fashion sense too.

Shuey also has no time to bleed.

Schumacher by far..

Button

Err, leaving aside your rant, all you've achieved is to show me how Raikkonen scored more points. Err, that would be the first criteria of being an unworthy champion... This thread is about its worthieness, and I'll repeat that without Mike Coughlain and a photocopier, Kimi would not have won that title in 2007. I think its you that needs to do the research.

I think you´re just a TAD mistaken here. Without the spygate, and ferrari´s double floor thus being discovered and banned (which effectively destroyed the balance on the ferrari), Kimi might have had complete and utter domination, just look at his melbourne win, when he nearly fell asleep at the wheel, how easy it was. Dont be a hater

button is a real contender given the head start bernie granted him.

however my pick is jacque. except for his first year against damon he wasnt necessarily the quickest out there and despite driving by far the best car in 1997, he needed all manner of retirements whilst trundling around in third place etc to get some of his wins. hhf was his real comp as schumacher had lousy car, and the mclarens blew up more than not.

kimi championship may have been weak, but rate him above jacques in terms of ability and damon even on his day could nbe quite quick and he did beat jacques albeit in his first year.

I don't think that the WDC's are rankable in this sense. They were all great so there is really no 'worst'. is Hard fought better than focused determination? Bah, there is no answer. So my response can only be that there were what...32? 32 driving geniuses and lucky me to be able to have seen some of them during my lifetime.

My least favorite WDC for a single season was Schumacher in 2004. Ferrari were miles ahead of everyone else and didn't let their drivers have a fair fight for the title. I understand it after Schumacher led them from the wilderness, but I still don't like it because it was dull.

For me it has to be Button. It's the only champion, that I don't have any emotions for, be they good or bad. Button has great talent, no doubt. You don't win that many races, especially when your teammate is Lewis Hamilton, if you're not really good.

I do have to chuckle each time however, when someone mentions that they like Button in F1 because they get to see Jessica (Michibata). Meaning it can't get much worse for Button from my POV. I know they did that with Mika & Eria too, but Mika was good for some comical relief in his interviews. And Mika back then, was then the biggerst opponent against MSC, which meant he produced a lot of emotions by default.

My least favorite WDC for a single season was Schumacher in 2004. Ferrari were miles ahead of everyone else and didn't let their drivers have a fair fight for the title.

Actually, Barrichello was aloud to race Schumacher in 2004. This was evident on multiple occasions, such as USA or Italy. It's just that Rubens didn't have the ability to challenge Michael with equal cars. Simple as that.

Schumacher by far..

Schumacher by far..

LMAO

Since my previous post went missing, here's it again. From worst to to still-pretty-bad:
D. Hill
Button
Mansell

All won their titles with suprerior cars. With a good teammate they're just paper, nothing.

So on the basis of having superior cars, can we also include
Senna 1988
Prost 1990, 1993
Schumacher 2001, 2002, 2004
Vettel 2011
For superior cars Schumacher 2004 easily has to be counted as just as much an advantage as Mansell had.




I would choose 1994 as the worst, a win at all costs attitude that covered cheating by the team and ended with Schumacher taking out Hill to prevent Hill winning after Schumacher had broken his car. Although for "a monkey could have been WDC in that car" it has to be Schumacher in 2004.

Edited by techspeed, 13 December 2012 - 00:32.

Prost was champion with a dominant car in 1989, not 1990. Although he did have Senna as his teammate and main rival; which is quite something.

i'm seeing a lot of people saying 1994 Schumacher WDC was worst on the basis that he bumped out hill. If we apply the same logic and forget driver preferences, then

1. At 1990 Suzuka SEnna - Prost collision surely be counted as being the same if not more offensive as it was genuinely dangerous and could've killed one if not both. Thus 1990 WDC should be counted as worst, or how about

2. 1989 WDC ... Jean-Marie Balestre handed Alain prost the WDC, that should also be one of the worst as FIA intervened to crown a champion.


Thus my point, we can bitch and moan but every WDC is hard earned . there is no Good/bad/worst WDC. some are hard-earned, some are not. a more relevant topic should have been 'hard earned WDC' or ' most controversial WDC', not 'worst WDC ever'

Edited by eronrules, 13 December 2012 - 00:43.

Raikkonen 2007 was possibly the best driving F1's seen in at least a decade. Amazing the bitterness. Of course, it'll only get worse and worse the more he continues to do well and Alonso and Hamilton continue to not win

As far as providing an actually honest answer to the question -- unfortunately, I know if I gave the honest answer then it would spark a tremendously aggressive assault (ie more than just a defense) from certain fan brigades, so it's basically overall better I not state it.

Which F1 are you watching? The F1 I am watching I see Hamilton and Alonso are on the top step more than Kimi.

You get 2

Nelson Piquet, 3 times ;)

The thread is about the worst driver ever to achieve a world championship, and you're really nominating Schumi because of the years he had a superior car?

What about the years he clearly did not have the best car but he was still the competition to beat to win the title? Did that count for nothing? Just because some years he had the best car doesn't make all of his titles worthless, surely?

By that token, I'm not selecting drivers but individual championships and by two criteria:

I will say that the worst WEDC where Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel and Alonso. And Button was the best.
Just because I want to see world burn

and on serious note... Still a driver that won WDC CANT be bad driver, and all WDC are deserved, these drivers are best in the world, yet they still need right machinery, so you can't compare one to another, and say who is the "worst".

God damn it, what an odd topic

Edited by MightyMoose, 13 December 2012 - 02:01.
how such odd topic can be even here is still quite beyond me. there were less harmful closed on this forum like new year car's or some random crap. <- No comments on moderation please

Not sure why Villeneuve is not getting mentioned much.

Probably because he doesn't belong in the category. JV took the title in just his second year of F1 despite not having a dominant car and reliability issues at Imola and a pitstop ****-up at Silverstone. Sure, MS retired and would have won at Silverstone but had JV not had that pit stop ****-up, to begin with, he would have won the race whether MS retired or not.

Sure, the Williams was a very quick car in 1997 but nothing like the 1992/93 and 1996 dominators because the car wasn't the fastest package at every track and was rather ordinary at low-downforce circuits like Hockenheim and Monza when the likes of McLaren, Benetton and even Jordan had quicker cars.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 13 December 2012 - 03:16.

But Jacques still didn't beat Damon in 96. I don't buy the rookie excuse. Back then they did loads of testing and Villeneuve was a champion of an another major series already.

I don't think I can really answer this question. I think most 1-time champions are more or less at the same level for me, which is still pretty high.

I don't really want to go there, it isn't fair.. every one of them did the deed when it was needed. The ones worth ragging on would be the ones who failed when it was on a plate.

I think most people know who I would choose but even for him I will not do it.

button is a real contender given the head start bernie granted him.

however my pick is jacque. except for his first year against damon he wasnt necessarily the quickest out there and despite driving by far the best car in 1997, he needed all manner of retirements whilst trundling around in third place etc to get some of his wins. hhf was his real comp as schumacher had lousy car, and the mclarens blew up more than not.

kimi championship may have been weak, but rate him above jacques in terms of ability and damon even on his day could nbe quite quick and he did beat jacques albeit in his first year.

Another one!!

Just because Alonso exploded because of getting "consistently" beaten by a ROOKIE driver..... and just because Hamilton couldn't close the deal...... doesn't automatically make the eventual World Champion weak.

Kimi Raikkonen won 5 races out of the final 10 races of 2007 .... & clinch the championship.... how the heck people are so dumb to call this weak. This included back-to-back wins in the final, most pressurised races of the season.

In fact, it only goes to show Kimi Raikkonen was the strongest driver of the three, mentally, physically & performer under-pressure on track.... with Alonso being the worst driver overall in a brilliant car in 2007, who eventually managed to lose the championship on track, get thrashed by a rookie driver, Cheat & collude with Ferrari materials over emails & meeting sessions, and was partly responsible for Mclaren getting the biggest fine in history.

Overall, Alonso is the worst driver to become champion.... simply because since he has become champion.... he got involved with Spygate, Crashgate, GermanyGate, FlagGate, Leave the SpaceGate, SamuraiGate, His-Car-is-better-than-mineGate.... and still continue to lose with all those added benefits in a Ferrari car to a relative Kid.

If anything, going by facts & performance in 2007... Alonso was the weakest performer while Raikkonen being the opposite in the final 12 races out the the 17 available.

The Worst Driver Champion & Year:-
-2005... Alonso was simply Lucky that Kimi's Mclaren kept breaking...
-2006... Alonso was simply Lucky that Schumi's late challenge got thrawted with a crucial retirement just when Alonso was starting to see "Ghosts" put in his car by "his team Renualt, who didn't want him to win" .

Edited by BackOnTop, 13 December 2012 - 05:49.

D. Hill
Button
Mansell

All won their titles with suprerior cars. With a good teammate they're just paper, nothing.

This. And I'm a British citizen!

This. And I'm a British citizen!

Mansell showed great form for a long time though, and fought very close campaigns against amazing drivers. For him it was almost an inevitability that a wdc would happen one day. For the others not so much perhaps..

Mansell showed great form for a long time though, and fought very close campaigns against amazing drivers. For him it was almost an inevitability that a wdc would happen one day. For the others not so much perhaps..

He didn't even beat Piquet. Michael did.

It is impossible to name such driver imho. In recent times 1999 stands out for me. Schumacher out and Mika barely beating Irvine was not an outstnading performance. But looking at the whole carreer Mika deserves his titles.

Hamilton. Won only because Piquet crashed in Singapore.

Just righting the wrongs of Spa really.