Ruthless and obsessed arguably not. Steely determined, completely focused and very hard working yes.
I agree.
Ruthless would describe Ayrton.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 05:29
Ruthless and obsessed arguably not. Steely determined, completely focused and very hard working yes.
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Posted 22 December 2012 - 06:12
Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:47
Posted 22 December 2012 - 07:54
But things can change, it only takes a Brawn rocket to give a very healthy push to ones career.
Right Jenson ;)
Posted 22 December 2012 - 08:32
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:04
I doubt that snatching Vettel alone from RBR would weaken the team. Ferrari needs more key players from RBR to make the switch favorable to them.At least by stealing Seb, Ferrari would probably weaken RBR a little too as well as geting an overall superior driver than Massa.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:27
I would be surprised. The car differences likely won't be huge in the mid term and they have high salaries.If there is a slot open at RBR with Vettel leaving for Ferrari or any team, I won't be surprised if Hamilton and Alonso willing to drive for RBR for free.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:27
Well nobody would have said 'I want Senna to drive for me because he's not arrogant', would they?I have seen Senna being even more animated once, and no one called him an idiot because of that. Comments on Vettel are not always based on comparative standards, and that's fine, I say, learn to live with it if you don't like it, it's your problem only.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:30
Edited by H2H, 22 December 2012 - 10:31.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:39
For a person which does not speak a second language it will be very hard to better a guy speaking a second one extremely well and having already a decent handling on a third and a fourth.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:43
English, German, a bit of Italian, and? What's fourth?
Edited by H2H, 22 December 2012 - 10:46.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:46
French.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:48
I thought he spoke Finnish.
Edited by H2H, 22 December 2012 - 10:50.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 10:51
It makes no difference which supplier's rep it was. Vettel was quite obviously behaving VERY arrogantly when he didn't think there was a camera on him.Oh dear, oh dear that's not even Paul Hembery you numpty but Mario Isola
Clueless much??
Anything to deflect the fact that de Montezemolo would chose Vettel over your boy.
What's next, Luca is a racist?
Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:22
It makes no difference which supplier's rep it was. Vettel was quite obviously behaving VERY arrogantly when he didn't think there was a camera on him.
Taking advantage of his status in F1 to behave so disrespectfully and avoid the consequences that would normally follow. The only driver who would behave like that I think. I can't imagine how that will go down in Maranello...
Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:24
It makes no difference which supplier's rep it was. Vettel was quite obviously behaving VERY arrogantly when he didn't think there was a camera on him.
Taking advantage of his status in F1 to behave so disrespectfully and avoid the consequences that would normally follow. The only driver who would behave like that I think. I can't imagine how that will go down in Maranello...
Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:46
Posted 22 December 2012 - 13:03
It makes no difference which supplier's rep it was. Vettel was quite obviously behaving VERY arrogantly when he didn't think there was a camera on him.
Taking advantage of his status in F1 to behave so disrespectfully and avoid the consequences that would normally follow. The only driver who would behave like that I think. I can't imagine how that will go down in Maranello...
Posted 22 December 2012 - 13:09
Edited by 2ms, 22 December 2012 - 13:09.
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Posted 22 December 2012 - 13:51
French. In the end he is German and not too far away from the French border. Spanish is on the rise in Germany though. In general Germans are quite handy with foreign languages: better then the Italians, much better then the French and we won't even mention the British...
Of course some Europeans are still a much better on average.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 14:08
No it's Vettel fans and Hammy bashboys going on and on arguing that Sebi can't possibly be arrogant. But he obviously is, as we also hear on the radio quite regularly. Cultural bias lol, there's nowhere that being in somebody's face like that isn't grossly disrespectful. Anyway my point was about Monty, but various members defending Vettel.Man you're going on and on about an indicident in a race where there were genuine safety concerns on side of RBR and Vettel.
Not to mention your cultural bias in misinterpreting the severety of the scene as others have already pointed out.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 14:33
Just words and prelearned sentences. Actually he cursed in Finnish speaking to Kimi before they go on the podium in Abu Dhabi. Not that anybody not Finnish got that quickly.
Finnish is also not Indoeuropean.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 14:35
I haven't seen anything like it.No it's Vettel fans and Hammy bashboys going on and on arguing that Sebi can't possibly be arrogant. ..
Posted 22 December 2012 - 15:26
Edited by tkulla, 22 December 2012 - 16:50.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 15:56
No it's Vettel fans and Hammy bashboys going on and on arguing that Sebi can't possibly be arrogant. But he obviously is, as we also hear on the radio quite regularly. Cultural bias lol, there's nowhere that being in somebody's face like that isn't grossly disrespectful. Anyway my point was about Monty, but various members defending Vettel.
The safety concerns were Vettel's team putting too much camber on and Pirelli quite rightly advising less. Sebi though deciding to pick on an easier victim than Adrian Newey.
If Monty had said 'not boastful' I'd have agreed, but he said 'not arrogant' and IMO he's quite mistaken. Though the main thing seems to be age. Bring it on anyway: Sebi vs Nando and Lewis with Newey .
Edited by halifaxf1fan, 22 December 2012 - 16:01.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 16:01
As much as I despise the idea of agreeing with LdM, I would go with Vettel over Hamilton. In fact, I would go with Vettel over Alonso as well.
That's not to say that I think Seb is faster or better than Fernando or Lewis. If I was picking based on pure speed on the track I'd go with Lewis, who I think is as quick (or quicker) than Vettel in qualifying (and quicker than Alonso). They all have great race pace and consistency, but I'd say Lewis is a bit better than Seb when things aren't going great (the German's impressive recovery drive in Brazil notwithstanding).
So why pick Vettel? Simple - he's the one that would be easiest to live with, which is to say he'd generate the least amount of drama by far.
I'm fascinated by how Ferrari handle Alonso. They go out of their way to support his personal PR efforts designed to big himself up (and talking the car down) and make sure his teammate is absolutely no threat (not claiming sabotage but selection of teammate and operational structure make it difficult for the #2 to compete, just as in Michael's days). This kid gloves treatment is surprising from a team that once fired Alain Prost for (rightly) claiming that his Ferrari was awful (and actually bad, not just a couple of tenths off the pace).
Lewis brings a circus wherever he goes. The guy is just fascinating to people and that means media madness. It's going to be very interesting at MercedesGP next year because there will be tons of coverage of what they're doing. Since Ferrari is already this kind of a circus, the combination could be explosive. Lewis is also prone to "-gates" and I shudder to think how LdM would respond to something like tweet-gate.
So I'd opt for Seb. All three guys can win the championship if the car is there or thereabouts, so I'd take the guy who makes the sailing the smoothest. He wouldn't car who his teammate is and doesn't need his ego stroked continuously, and for a 3x WDC flies under the radar pretty well.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:33
If someone has tried to perpetuate the myth that lewis is TDG, and that absolutely any and every team would want him then it must have come as a bit of a shock when Red Bull shut the door, and now Ferrari publicly say they'd prefer the younger and more successful Vettel it probably makes the realisation even more undeniable.
Vettel was the youngest WDC, and he's won every one since he won his first one, its really litttle surprise that he's probably the driver that any and every team would want.
As for Fernando, Luca's comments may well be a shot across his bows, Ferrari were convinced he would lead the team to victory it seems, that hasn't happened, perhaps its only natural that Luca might be wondering whether Vettel might have got the job done.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:06
As much as I despise the idea of agreeing with LdM, I would go with Vettel over Hamilton. In fact, I would go with Vettel over Alonso as well.
That's not to say that I think Seb is faster or better than Fernando or Lewis. If I was picking based on pure speed on the track I'd go with Lewis, who I think is as quick (or quicker) than Vettel in qualifying (and quicker than Alonso). They all have great race pace and consistency, but I'd say Lewis is a bit better than Seb when things aren't going great (the German's impressive recovery drive in Brazil notwithstanding).
So why pick Vettel? Simple - he's the one that would be easiest to live with, which is to say he'd generate the least amount of drama by far.
I'm fascinated by how Ferrari handle Alonso. They go out of their way to support his personal PR efforts designed to big himself up (and talking the car down) and make sure his teammate is absolutely no threat (not claiming sabotage but selection of teammate and operational structure make it difficult for the #2 to compete, just as in Michael's days). This kid gloves treatment is surprising from a team that once fired Alain Prost for (rightly) claiming that his Ferrari was awful (and actually bad, not just a couple of tenths off the pace).
Lewis brings a circus wherever he goes. The guy is just fascinating to people and that means media madness. It's going to be very interesting at MercedesGP next year because there will be tons of coverage of what they're doing. Since Ferrari is already this kind of a circus, the combination could be explosive. Lewis is also prone to "-gates" and I shudder to think how LdM would respond to something like tweet-gate.
So I'd opt for Seb. All three guys can win the championship if the car is there or thereabouts, so I'd take the guy who makes the sailing the smoothest. He wouldn't care who his teammate is and doesn't need his ego stroked continuously, and for a 3x WDC flies under the radar pretty well.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:15
Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:16
Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:18
One of Vettel's better attributes is not sulking; he might have a brief petulent paddy when things go wrong, but he generally clears his head pretty quickly, gets calm and focused and finds a way to eliminate/minimise the problem.
Posted 22 December 2012 - 22:22
I'm fascinated by how Ferrari handle Alonso. They go out of their way to support his personal PR efforts designed to big himself up (and talking the car down) and make sure his teammate is absolutely no threat (not claiming sabotage but selection of teammate and operational structure make it difficult for the #2 to compete, just as in Michael's days). This kid gloves treatment is surprising from a team that once fired Alain Prost for (rightly) claiming that his Ferrari was awful (and actually bad, not just a couple of tenths off the pace).
Posted 23 December 2012 - 00:09
Red Bull doesn't want Lewis though so this isn't going to happen.
Seems that none of the top teams want Lewis, McLaren - Red Bull - Ferrari are all moving forward with other plans. Hamilton was a bit over-rated anyway imo and perhaps he is best matched as a driver with a second tier team such as Mercedes.
It is an opportunity for him to lead a rebuilding of Mercedes, if he can do it then maybe a team like Ferrari will change their opinion of Lewis vs Seb. If not though then I expect that Hamilton will finish his F1 career with Mercedes and then move to greener pastures in America.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:12
Alonso and VettelIs it possible at all for Ferrari to change drivers? I really don't seem them getting another sponsor like Santander. Does anyone else? if not, this all seems rather academic.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 02:14
Why not?You may keep on dreaming but what Luca is really saying is that neither Hamilton or Vettel will be paired with Alonso until his exit.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:03
Imo the interesting bit in Montezemolo's statements is that it's as much about personality than driving. This obviously mean it's something that comes back to ultimate performance in getting the team motivated and so on, and LdM can no doubt see it working extremely well at RBR where Horner and Newey makes no secret how they really like Vettel, and likewise not so well with the moods and 'gates' with Hamilton at McLaren. Maybe RBR turning down Hamilton was for the same reasons what LdM says about the importance of having the driver in "a good environment without peer troubles", so could be that teams know there is a risk of disharmony with Hamilton and best not take the chance.Think I agree with LdM. Honestly, I think Vettel is just a better driver than Hamilton
Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:26
Red Bull doesn't want Lewis though so this isn't going to happen.
Seems that none of the top teams want Lewis, McLaren - Red Bull - Ferrari are all moving forward with other plans. Hamilton was a bit over-rated anyway imo and perhaps he is best matched as a driver with a second tier team such as Mercedes.
It is an opportunity for him to lead a rebuilding of Mercedes, if he can do it then maybe a team like Ferrari will change their opinion of Lewis vs Seb. If not though then I expect that Hamilton will finish his F1 career with Mercedes and then move to greener pastures in America.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:41
a) I'll think you'll find macca did
b) I think RB's decision re: wanting Lewis might change if they lost vettel
Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:37
Macca said they were interested in keeping Hamilton but their negotiating stance (Dennis saying a pay reduction was on the table) and the speed in which they announced Perez, even before Merc could announce their signing of Hamilton, indicated otherwise to me.
In this article Horner puts their young driver program as the main reason that Hamilton wasn't a consideration for them,
http://www1.skysport...t-want-Hamilton.
But who knows what the future holds, they may want him in three years time if Vettel is leaving and their young driver program doesn't produce a good candidate.
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Posted 23 December 2012 - 04:52
Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:40
Macca said they were interested in keeping Hamilton but their negotiating stance (Dennis saying a pay reduction was on the table) and the speed in which they announced Perez, even before Merc could announce their signing of Hamilton, indicated otherwise to me.
In this article Horner puts their young driver program as the main reason that Hamilton wasn't a consideration for them,
http://www1.skysport...t-want-Hamilton.
But who knows what the future holds, they may want him in three years time if Vettel is leaving and their young driver program doesn't produce a good candidate.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:41
Vettel would be less of a hassle for Alonso if he were to join than if Lewis was to re-team with him. The comments also mean its very likely Vettel will be there sooner rather than later.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 14:12
No way does a Alonso/Vettel combination happen - Fernando is far too concerned with his legacy to risk being beaten by Sebastian.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 14:59
Vettel would be less of a hassle for Alonso if he were to join than if Lewis was to re-team with him. The comments also mean its very likely Vettel will be there sooner rather than later.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 15:12
Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:07
Alonso doesn't call the shots at Ferrari.No way does a Alonso/Vettel combination happen - Fernando is far too concerned with his legacy to risk being beaten by Sebastian.
Red Bull dont play the 'politics' game just as much? C'mon now.After all the crap Ferrari were spouting in the final third of the year and beyond, Vettel might think the best way to avoid being the victim of the politics is to go there and join the team who is spreading the politics.
Edited by Seanspeed, 23 December 2012 - 16:08.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:22
Red Bull dont play the 'politics' game just as much? C'mon now.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:29
Its not about who is getting an advantage or not, its about the fact that they do play that game. Suggesting that Vettel leave to avoid being a 'victim' of politics is hilarious. Its just the stereotypical 'evil Ferrari' nonsense.If we talk about politics as their drivers management, they try to make their other driver help when he´s out of it -same as Ferrari-, but Webber can ignore them and keep doing whatever he feels. Felipe can´t. Ferrari gets more out of this aspect of "politics".
And if we talk about "politics" as rule changes and FIA influence, RB is simply the target right now. No one cared about exhaust gasses helping aerodynamic performance for ages, but as soon as they got a big performance advantage in that area, it suddenly turned out to be something bad and it got banned/limited. But hey, that´s not because they´re RB, that´s because they´re winning, that happens with everyone. Ferrari was target of stupid rule changes last decade.
So no, RB is not getting any advantage from politic games right now.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:39
Its not about who is getting an advantage or not, its about the fact that they do play that game.
Suggesting that Vettel leave to avoid being a 'victim' of politics is hilarious. Its just the stereotypical 'evil Ferrari' nonsense.
Posted 23 December 2012 - 16:50