Sergio Perez's inexperience hurting McLaren?

"Red Bull have two drivers of a high level of experience, as do Ferrari and Mercedes," former driver John Watson to BBC. "McLaren look like they've got one and a half drivers."

"He [Perez] had some great races last year but I'm not yet clear as to what level of information or value he brings the team. "Give Perez a really good car and he might shine but to me the ultimate driver is one who can drag performance out of an underperforming car. The jury is still out as to whether Perez has the potential to do that."

http://www.f1times.c...s/display/07423

To me, he doesn't look like to be on par with previous Mclaren signings of the new Millennium:- Kimi Raikkonen, JP Montoya, Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button. These guys just made the car fast, asap, and didn't require a 'schooling' period for Racecraft!! I have some doubts if he can show flashes of 'one lap' speed which even Heikki Kovalainen proved over one lap against Hamilton.

Most of his podium were due to strategic gameplay that Sauber could afford to risk with the tyres & changing conditions. I found his Monza drive to be excellent though, so there might be something there. But how long can Mclaren wait for him to "Learn", Contribute & Help in development considering the kind of instant live pressure RBR, Ferrari, Merc & Lotus drivers are going to be providing over the season & beyond.

Time to time some teams & fans make the mistake of thinking drivers can learn in F1, whereas great drivers actually just box in and perform for a team like Mclaren & Ferrari. Also, F1 isn't a school, but a platform for maximum performance from day 1. There shouldn't, in reality be a honeymoon period if you land a drive with the Second Grandest Team on the grid. That period has past with Sauber.

I hope Sergio can quickly understand his big team environment, the 2013 Mclaren Car and start giving feedback alongside Jenson Button to make this years car a lot faster. Also, now that Hamilton isn't there, Mclaren are missing a benchmark as Perez's qualifying pace was never good in the first place. For e.g. Nico Hulkenberg has one lap pace & has one pole... maybe Mclaren needed pace over race distance... a hasty signing to me due to Sponsor pressure!

If Perez thought Mclaren will be easy, the MP4-28 has just given him the toughest initiation to prove his worth, hoping he can grasp it.

Edited by BackOnTop, 05 April 2013 - 03:25.

I think Perez's shortcomings will actually be magnified by the fact that Button doesn't have that true #1 driver aura about him. Button brings A+ consistency with B+speed. The second McLaren driver needs to have at least A- speed even if they are horribly inconsistent.

I rather wait to have more races to analize him, 2 races is verly little to judge anyone.

I rather wait to have more races to analize him, 2 races is verly little to judge anyone.

I agree, but he already has approx 35 races under his belt, and Mclaren's fight for WCC & WDC began 2 races ago.

It was a bit weird to hear Whitmarsh urging him to push on the radio by stating 'other car might get into tyre trouble'. Not a good sign, maybe they thought he isn't pushing already considering Button was running 5th before their main man got pit-screwed.

Edited by BackOnTop, 05 April 2013 - 03:39.

the unknown is how good is his feedback, and if macca actualy listen to him.

racecraft wise he should know what hes doing by now, really. as should anyone in f1

I agree, but he already has approx 35 races under his belt, and Mclaren's fight for WCC & WDC began 2 races ago.

Well yeah, he is not a rookie anymore, but he is in a new team, new car and not a very good one, let the kid have some space, it's Button who should be doing the heavy lifting.

Well yeah, he is not a rookie anymore, but he is in a new team, new car and not a very good one, let the kid have some space, it's Button who should be doing the heavy lifting.

He has back-to-back China & Bahrain coming up to give everyone at Mclaren some sort of performance assessment. Hope he doesn't fail like he did the 'Mclaren Fitness Test'!

As soon as Macca gets it together, I expect you'll see another young gun behind the wheel in Perez.

Edited by bourbon, 05 April 2013 - 05:46.

What do we have here? A classic the 'older I get the faster I was'?

For crying out loud, give Perez a chance!

I think Perez is going to get found out in a big way this season. Ferrari didn't seem too fight to hard to keep him.

What do we have here? A classic the 'older I get the faster I was'?

For crying out loud, give Perez a chance!

Thats the point - you dont get chances at a team like McLaren. You are there to deliver.

Give him a chance! He may be inexperienced, but in Jenson they've also got the driver with the most experience.

They took on a driver going into his third season and they've said time and again that he's still rough around the edges. I think he'll get there.

Thats the point - you dont get chances at a team like McLaren. You are there to deliver.

And Mclaren do not deliver either.

They have been in title fights since 1998.....and won just 4 titles out of 30 available; 3 WDC (1998, 1999 and 2008) and 1 WCC (in 1999!). It seems that Mclaren's problems to beyond just drivers. Why are they F1's perrenial no.2 team?

Stupid comment by Watson IMO.

Maybe Alonso's inexperience hurt Renault 2008 and 09

Maybe Jens inexperience hurt Honda 07 and 08

Maybe Kimi's inexperience hurt Ferrari 09

Maybe Lewis inexperience hurt Mclaren 09

Maybe Alonso's inexperience hurt Renault 2008 and 09

Maybe Jens inexperience hurt Honda 07 and 08

Maybe Kimi's inexperience hurt Ferrari 09

Maybe Lewis inexperience hurt Mclaren 09

It's not about how the Car is Born... but what could be achieved thereafter, such as Wins & Multiple podiums for Lewis, Alonso & Kimi in those years. Mclaren expect similar performances from the drivers they choose... so it's upto Perez (& Button) to make the most of this coming races.

Also, in his 3rd year in F1 (this is Perez's 3rd year)... Kimi almost won the Championship against Ferrari. In the meantime, Alonso was hitting the big notes towards establishing Renault for future Championships. Lets see if Perez has it in him in the next 4 races to overcome deficits.

Edited by BackOnTop, 05 April 2013 - 06:20.

Thats the point - you dont get chances at a team like McLaren. You are there to deliver.

I think 'a team like McLaren' is a good place to get a chance to get up to speed. Once he's really cracked it he'll be ready to move to one of the top teams.

Perez has done fine in the first two races...good debut with a difficult car...

John Watson's remarks don't really make that much sense. He's basically saying 'Because I cannot accurately tell how good Perez is after two races, that MUST mean he's kind of shit or at the very least there's a case to answer' Well, no it just means there's not enough data.

I *do* think McLaren don't help either Perez or themselves by constantly presenting Perez in terms of a diamond in the rough, stressing how much he can learn from Jenson, telling the world how he failed their fitness test but will do better etc etc. The flipside of 'One day, when this kid has done all his lessons, he might be world champion' is 'He isn't ready now'. Still, in any case I think Perez's arguable shortcomings are the least of McLaren's problems at the moment.

Edited by SophieB, 05 April 2013 - 08:59.

"Give Perez a really good car and he might shine but to me the ultimate driver is one who can drag performance out of an underperforming car. "

So we are again back at the age old notion, that Fisi was the best driver out there during the previous decade. Right?

Edited by Force Ten, 05 April 2013 - 07:40.

I think Perez's shortcomings will actually be magnified by the fact that Button doesn't have that true #1 driver aura about him. Button brings A+ consistency with B+speed. The second McLaren driver needs to have at least A- speed even if they are horribly inconsistent.

I disagree about Button having A+ consistency. He was anything but consistent last year. Even in 2009 he was highly inconsistent. B+ speed it about right though. When the car is exactly as he wants, he can be as fast as anyone out there. Problem is those days are far less frequent than when the car has 'balance issues' for him.

Maybe Alonso's inexperience hurt Renault 2008 and 09

In his 8th and 9th Seasons?

Maybe Jens inexperience hurt Honda 07 and 08

In his 8th and 9th Seasons?

Maybe Kimi's inexperience hurt Ferrari 09

In his 9th season?

Maybe Lewis inexperience hurt Mclaren 09

You may have a point. Mclaren in 09 had two young inexperienced drivers, their recovery may have been quicker with a seasoned vet in the car. Maybe.

I get your point, but the above is just silly

Edited by learningtobelost, 05 April 2013 - 08:08.

No more than Bianchi's is hurting Marussia. I'm not sure how you conclude that a driver who had 2 second places in his early career would be holding back the team he was driving for.

Two races in, this is too early to say.

bad habit beating driver and making a sacrifice of lower performance? I saw this happens before at Jag.

I disagree about Button having A+ consistency. He was anything but consistent last year. Even in 2009 he was highly inconsistent. B+ speed it about right though. When the car is exactly as he wants, he can be as fast as anyone out there. Problem is those days are far less frequent than when the car has 'balance issues' for him.

Thanks for sharing - but it has what to do with the topic of Perez not being good enough ?

Checo was never going to be another Hamilton, McLaren were kidding themselves if they ever thought so.

But I doubt that. Surely, consciously or otherwise, it was a Jenson-friendly decision to choose the young Perez over Hulk; so they have what they wanted.

He's been quite decent so far, I'd say.

Perez has done fine in the first two races...good debut with a difficult car...

Exactly. Whoever expected him to even be a shadow of Lewis should eat their own shoe. The car is mediocre and Perez has driven it like a mediocre top driver. Whether he mature to a top driver that can squeeze that extra tenth out of a mediocre car will decide whether he has a future at Mclaren beyond 2013.

"Red Bull have two drivers of a high level of experience, as do Ferrari and Mercedes," former driver John Watson to BBC. "McLaren look like they've got one and a half drivers."

"He [Perez] had some great races last year but I'm not yet clear as to what level of information or value he brings the team. "Give Perez a really good car and he might shine but to me the ultimate driver is one who can drag performance out of an underperforming car. The jury is still out as to whether Perez has the potential to do that."

http://www.f1times.c...s/display/07423

I'd give Perez 6 months because its a new team. Remember even ALonso struggled against Massa at first when he joined Ferrari. WHen only tenths of a second make a difference, you have to be truly comfortable in the car to find those last tenths that make the difference.
In Australia he finished with 2secs of Button, how good is that for your 1st race?
Malaysia Perez was pretty poor race pace wise

And as for the highlighted part of Watson's comment, wouldn't the same apply if the word Perez was replaced with Button...quite the media darling our Button, never judged to the same standards.

Edited by ZooL, 05 April 2013 - 11:11.

Losing Hamilton hurt the team, actually.

From Kimi / Montoya, to Lewis / Alonso. . . . . . . . to Jenson / Perez.

Quite the fall from grace.

His inexperience isn't helping McLaren but I highly doubt it's part of the fundamental problem - they screwed up somewhere in the basic design of the car.

I'm getting a bit fed up of the constant "oh they should have hired Hulk instead", "oh they got him instead of Hulk to please Button" comments, yes they should've hired Hulk but don't forget at the time they signed Perez he was the guy that was performing better, it was just after his podium at Monza if I remember correctly. From that moment onwards his form completely dipped, whereas Hulk got stronger and stronger, the benefit of hindsight is a very big factor in this case.

His inexperience isn't helping McLaren but I highly doubt it's part of the fundamental problem - they screwed up somewhere in the basic design of the car.

I'm getting a bit fed up of the constant "oh they should have hired Hulk instead", "oh they got him instead of Hulk to please Button" comments, yes they should've hired Hulk but don't forget at the time they signed Perez he was the guy that was performing better, it was just after his podium at Monza if I remember correctly. From that moment onwards his form completely dipped, whereas Hulk got stronger and stronger, the benefit of hindsight is a very big factor in this case.

Not really. The sauber was more than a half-decent car and he mostly benefited from different strategies due to his starting position.

It is just too early to judge anything really. McLaren has lots of troubles with their car right now. Perez hanged on with Button's pace in Australia both in qualifying and race. In Malaysia he had tyre graining problems and Button drove a great race and I think it was one of his best considering the car's situation but pit problem screwed him. I think we will see different Perez after the second half of the season. He has not made any silly mistakes as well. Let's wait and see.

Thanks for sharing - but it has what to do with the topic of Perez not being good enough ?

Perez seems to be behind his teammate Button who isn't exactly setting the world on fire either.

Edited by Frank Grimes, 05 April 2013 - 12:40.

Not really. The sauber was more than a half-decent car and he mostly benefited from different strategies due to his starting position.

I don't think you have watched Malaysia, Canada and Monza races carefully. In malaysia he did not have any advantage in terms of strategy or tyre etc. It was his pure performance both in wet and dry that gave him 2nd place and almost win. In canada he had the same strategy with Kimi at start of the race and look where both of them have finished and their team-mates have finished at the end. For me his most impressive race was in Monza. Kobayashi was nowhere near him and actually nobody was in his pace during the race. You can't explain that pace with only tyre performance or car performance etc. Even Peter Sauber admitted that Monza was not the type of track they thought they would be strong. He made his overtakes look as if he was overtaking backmarkers. His monaco performances were pretty exceptional too but he had too much bad lucks there. A mediocre driver would not perform such races IMHO. We saw how Great Hulk failed in Brazil and destroyed both his own chance of winning and Lewis's race as well. Give this young guy a bit time to familirise with the car and the team.

Not really. The sauber was more than a half-decent car and he mostly benefited from different strategies due to his starting position.

No strategy can work if the driver is incapable of delivering it.

At the moment the car isn't working as it was supposed to. Something is happening on the track, which wasn't happening in windtunnel, simulation etc.

Feedback from drivers is not completely irrelevant, but it's not like they are currently fine-tuning the car's performance.

If they get the car working properly, and Perez fails to deliver, this kind of comment might be worth making. Right now it makes John Watson look a bit silly TBH.

Oh boy..

Not really. The sauber was more than a half-decent car and he mostly benefited from different strategies due to his starting position.

Fine I will happily accept we can't objectively say who was "performing better" between 2 different cars, for all we know the Sauber may have been the best car. But roll back to the comments in the forum (and everywhere really) after the Monza race, and see who was getting more hype and praise, the guy who had again nearly won in a Sauber, or the guy that was about even with Paul di Resta fighting for the lower points positions.

McLaren at this stage look like they may have made a mistake, but it was a very easy one to make at that point. I'm not saying Perez is/was/will be better or measuring their dicks or whatever, just debunking myths about McLaren's choice.

Funny thing is that going by the criteria he implies, then Watson should have never been a McLaren driver.

Also, let's get some common wisdom straightened out. In Malaysia, he had made Q3, and ran pretty much the same strategy as the leaders. In Monza, while he didn't make Q3, he was ahead of Kobayashi and in the points zone by passing ON THE TRACK while on the HARDER tyre. He set everything up for the amazing finish in softer tyres, by doing the proper job in the harder compound. It's funny how when Kamui did exactly the same in Suzuka 2010 he was seen as a god, but in Checo's case it's just luck.

Montreal... same strategy as Raikkonen, jumped him in the stops and passed Massa/Rosberg while Kimi got stuck behind them. The other Lotus finished 2nd, so don't give me crap about the car...

My point is, yes the strategy was extremely important, but you have to make it work. Can't imagine the hype if it had been Di Resta.

Edited by Collective, 05 April 2013 - 14:43.

Perez on his first season is experiencing the exact opposite of what Hamilton experienced on this first season at Mclaren.

I don't see his teammate winning races, so I don't understand why Perez is expected to do so.

If it was mid-season or further and Macca were falling behind in dev (and Checo was losing to JB) I could understand these kind of comments, but now? With the car atm?

The point about Mac being no place to 'learn' is a more valid one imo however Checo has made no mistakes so far in a very difficult situation and for now that is big credit to him

Imagine the press uproar if Checo was doing a Romain start of 2012?

"Red Bull have two drivers of a high level of experience, as do Ferrari and Mercedes," former driver John Watson to BBC. "McLaren look like they've got one and a half drivers."

"He [Perez] had some great races last year but I'm not yet clear as to what level of information or value he brings the team. "Give Perez a really good car and he might shine but to me the ultimate driver is one who can drag performance out of an underperforming car. The jury is still out as to whether Perez has the potential to do that."

http://www.f1times.c...s/display/07423

To me, he doesn't look like to be on par with previous Mclaren signings of the new Millennium:- Kimi Raikkonen, JP Montoya, Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button. These guys just made the car fast, asap, and didn't require a 'schooling' period for Racecraft!! I have some doubts if he can show flashes of 'one lap' speed which even Heikki Kovalainen proved over one lap against Hamilton.

Most of his podium were due to strategic gameplay that Sauber could afford to risk with the tyres & changing conditions. I found his Monza drive to be excellent though, so there might be something there. But how long can Mclaren wait for him to "Learn", Contribute & Help in development considering the kind of instant live pressure RBR, Ferrari, Merc & Lotus drivers are going to be providing over the season & beyond.

Time to time some teams & fans make the mistake of thinking drivers can learn in F1, whereas great drivers actually just box in and perform for a team like Mclaren & Ferrari. Also, F1 isn't a school, but a platform for maximum performance from day 1. There shouldn't, in reality be a honeymoon period if you land a drive with the Second Grandest Team on the grid. That period has past with Sauber.

I hope Sergio can quickly understand his big team environment, the 2013 Mclaren Car and start giving feedback alongside Jenson Button to make this years car a lot faster. Also, now that Hamilton isn't there, Mclaren are missing a benchmark as Perez's qualifying pace was never good in the first place. For e.g. Nico Hulkenberg has one lap pace & has one pole... maybe Mclaren needed pace over race distance... a hasty signing to me due to Sponsor pressure!

If Perez thought Mclaren will be easy, the MP4-28 has just given him the toughest initiation to prove his worth, hoping he can grasp it.

The quotes of Watson come from a BBC article. Check out the headline, and headline picture and you might get an idea what was the idea behind it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22031593

Perez has done a decent job this season with the crappy car he has driven so far.

Could he have done better? Probably but not much, Alonso instead of 2 points would have around 8-10 points. At the end it doesnt matter if the car is crap

Isnt it a bit premature to claim that after just 2 races?

Its not his inexperience that's hurting McLaren. It's just that he's not very good.

A top flight driver has shown early flashes of brilliance.

Hamilton in his rookie season
Alonso
Vettel impressed even in BMW testing/winning with TR.
even Button was impressive in his debut seasons.

I just dont get the hype around Perez and feel like McLaren made a panicked decision to sign him when they couldve gotten better drivers.

McLaren is at the summit of the F1 mountain and everyone would love to drive their car. They deserve a driver that can get most out of the car, as their cars are usually the quickest in the field.

Now they're screwed unless they build a rocket ship since Button doesn't really extract the maximum over one lap to show the true pace of the car and what it's capable of. Button is a better racer than qualifier as he has shown he can manage his tires and play the "long game", he knows that you dont win in the first laps.

McLaren should've gotten someone who has really good 1 lap pace to set the benchmark in Qualifying.

A top flight driver has shown early flashes of brilliance.

Hamilton in his rookie season
Alonso
Vettel impressed even in BMW testing/winning with TR.
even Button was impressive in his debut seasons.

Perez has shown talent, of the 3 podiums he got the one he only lucked into was the Canada one as Ferrari and Red Bull got too agressive with their tyre strategy.
He also showed talent in GP2 being beaten by a more experienced Maldonado. Hell even last year in Japan and Abu Dhabi he was doing very good until he made bonehead mistakes on both.

Again, all this talk is too soon

Isnt it a bit premature to claim that after just 2 races?

Very.

First we have to see what Button can do and later compare.

One thing i am sure,i don't like these last years cars of Mclaren,i know that you can say some races they got the fastest car but the handling is appalling,at least seeing it from my chair here.

Every year,when a Mclaren comes to a braking zone is shake-shake-shake and pit stops errors,strategic mistakes.

Mclaren has bigger problems for years than his drivers.

Edited by Boxerevo, 05 April 2013 - 23:28.

The car designer is hurting McLaren, isn't it funny how people perceive things in whichever way they choose too, if the car was good it would 'young new driver Perez's fresh impetus pushing McLaren forward post-Hamilton'

That is ridiculous thing to say especially after it was Mclaren themselves who claimed the now had the Perfect blend of experience and a young potentially fantastic driver who just needed polishing off and finishing and that was what Mclaren are good at.

So after 2 races its his fault the team are suffering? The team are deriving other benefits from having Sergio instead of Lewis, they get to have a senior/junior driver and can build and focus on the older guy while the younger ones 'gets his edges smoothed' (presumably by Sam Michael)
They can then avoid having a number 1/2 driver yet have their expereinced WC driver lead the team like Alonso has done

Except the senior driver is only good in a perfect car and cant drag a bad car around, and the new guy although having the potential to do that in the near future is still 'learning the ropes' from the senior.

So the senior driver, the team leader, the one the engineers turn to for leads in developing the car now needs an equal otherwise the team miss Hamilton?

And this is all young Sergios fault?

I wonder how long Buttons friends in the press can keep pointing fingers anywhere but Jenson. The good thing is the car is competitive and the team will have had 3 week to prepare, and Button is confident, Sergio will be able to at least replicate his good drives from last 2 years and that will be big part in the team getting the points to move ahead.