Webber to quit F1

Mark is either really leaving or really hoping that the more innuendo he leaks the more RBR will do to keep him.

That said, I think the article linked on that dailystar page that has McNish calling Di Resta the new J. Stewart is much more worthy of its own thread

Webber may not have beaten the current triple champion, but he's had a great career in F1. A very respectable one indeed.

I disagree. Those three are still too inexperienced to line up next to Grosjean and lead the team. Webber would be the best choice if Raikkonen does leave.

Hulkenberg is ready for a big team, the oher 2 might not be. But to me the Hulk is ready

Hulkenberg is ready for a big team, the oher 2 might not be. But to me the Hulk is ready

how so

Webber was never leading a team in a succesful way. That's some nonsense here.

A lot of Webber haters putting in the sword here. What goes around comes around grubs. Mark has had an excellent career and he has plenty of " moments " that will be talked about for years, 3 wins at Monaco being a highlight ( F3000 being the 1st ).

Webber haters? Nah not all people who are not impressed with Webber don't necessarily hate him as a driver, unimpressed does not mean hate...remember? You make your own luck in life and the cream will always rise to the top well unfortunately that did not happen for Webber, he got some good results in the best car in F1 but with that piece of machinery he really should've done better overall. I also agree that he's been treated as a number 2 which is a disadvantage but still there's a reason he's a number 2. The other significant thing is people in the sport of F1 who know more about whats what than any of us on this forum put together pretty much all agree that Vettel is not the best driver in F1 so where does that leave Webber?

The other significant thing is people in the sport of F1 who know more about whats what than any of us on this forum put together pretty much all agree that Vettel is not the best driver in F1 so where does that leave Webber?

Vettel has the highest average in team principal votings, received lots of other praise and top teams seem to be interested in him. I am not saying that I know he is the best current F1 driver, but it is hardly consensus that he is not.

What significant people think Vettel is an average/underperforming sort of driver to be so far off "the best"?

The other significant thing is people in the sport of F1 who know more about whats what than any of us on this forum put together pretty much all agree that Vettel is not the best driver in F1 so where does that leave Webber?

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

As already mentioned we will just have to wait and see what happens,Mark said in Melb. he's thinking about going around in 2014,he said in a Ten TV interview that he hasn't made a decision on what he will do in relation to the Porsche rumours and is looking fwd to the European F-1 rounds.Based on that and Info. that trickles down to us from one of his personal sponsors he is seriously thinking about going around in again in 2014 but probaly not with RB unless Merc. get their way with Marko. & Seb.

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

this story is a total 'furphy', as we say in the game - it's just the star trying to drum up some interest from their readers ahead of the first euro GP of the season.

MW has popular appeal in the UK and there are no sensational angles to be had right now from the british drivers on the grid, so they've whipped this up.

i'm sure he's considering his options in light of all that has happened but i'm equally sure he hasn't made a decision yet.

i'd like to see him have a crack at indycar - specifically winning the 500 - then join porsche, win le mans and take the triple crown: that'd be a nice consolation prize for missing the WDC.

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

as a fan, i agree with this assessment.

MW would've been WDC if he'd kept it on the track in korea, but maybe his failure to do so proves he wasn't quite worthy.

still, he would've been as worthy a WDC as JB or DH ... it's not only about the driver, after all.

Edited by repcobrabham, 07 May 2013 - 01:08.

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

The other significant thing is people in the sport of F1 who know more about whats what than any of us on this forum put together pretty much all agree that Vettel is not the best driver in F1 so where does that leave Webber?

Hah, where did you pull that garbage from?

As already mentioned we will just have to wait and see what happens,Mark said in Melb. he's thinking about going around in 2014,he said in a Ten TV interview that he hasn't made a decision on what he will do in relation to the Porsche rumours and is looking fwd to the European F-1 rounds.Based on that and Info. that trickles down to us from one of his personal sponsors he is seriously thinking about going around in again in 2014 but probaly not with RB unless Merc. get their way with Marko. & Seb.

This "maybe" I want to do another year approach will imho kill his chances to find a seat, if RBR really goes ahead and replaces him.

Mark is either really leaving or really hoping that the more innuendo he leaks the more RBR will do to keep him.

That said, I think the article linked on that dailystar page that has McNish calling Di Resta the new J. Stewart is much more worthy of its own thread

PDR is not fit to polish JYS's shoes. Start a new thread, we all need a good laugh.

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

Ferrari probably wanted him as a pure no. 2 driver to Alonso though but yes, I agree. Mark is not bad at all, maybe not quick or good enough to be able to challenge Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton on a regular basis over a season but he is a very good driver.

It is just a shame though that he has taken to whining so much the last few years as he's been outpaced and outperformed by Vettel. I like Webber and want to like Webber but the whining of his has put me off a bit sadly.

Ferrari wanted Mark for 13. Lotus wanted Mark for 13. RBR have kept Mark for years. Renault wanted him for the years that Alonso won his titles. Williams grabbed him when they expected to still be a title contending team.

All that says to me the people who know in F1 respect Mark highly. Not as one of the best 3 maybe, but as a definite contender.

Mark Webber made the wrong decision back at the old Renault days and i reckon he made a mistake again, he should have followed Ciaron Pilbeam to Lotus.

Mark Webber made the wrong decision back at the old Renault days and i reckon he made a mistake again, he should have followed Ciaron Pilbeam to Lotus.

To replace who?

As already mentioned we will just have to wait and see what happens,Mark said in Melb. he's thinking about going around in 2014,he said in a Ten TV interview that he hasn't made a decision on what he will do in relation to the Porsche rumours and is looking fwd to the European F-1 rounds.Based on that and Info. that trickles down to us from one of his personal sponsors he is seriously thinking about going around in again in 2014 but probaly not with RB unless Merc. get their way with Marko. & Seb.

Would you clarify bolded within its context, please? (I am unaware of any link of those three you mentioned). Lauda attempting to lure Seb into a team is very old news, and not active anymore; other than that..?

why is there a new thread on this topic when we already have a (long) discussion about this?

why is there a new thread on this topic when we already have a (long) discussion about this?

Moderators can merge threads, if they choose to do so.

To replace who?

I would say Grosjean.

Gro will stay at Lotus at least one more season, unless he does really something stupid. His results to-date in 2013 are slightly misleading and worse looking then they should, as Lotus admitted having problems with setup of his car. I doubt EB would replace him with Webber, considering where those two are in their respective careers.

I think Webber is really underrated, I always thought him better than Button still do but below the top guys like Alonso and Vettel. I think when Vettel teams up with Alonso, Raikkonen or Hamilton in the future people will realise how good he was.

I don't know if any of you listened to the pitpass podcast with Martin Brundle last month, but in it he talked about his time with Schumacher at Benetton and how Briatore did not know how good Michael was so he was not to impressed with Brundles performance, but later on when it was clear that Michael was a superstar Briatore realised he made a mistake in getting rid of Brundle. I think something similar will happen with Webber, in that Vettel goes to Ferrari and beats Alonso and people look back at Webbers time against Vettel and realise what a good job he did.

I think Webber is really underrated, I always thought him better than Button still do but below the top guys like Alonso and Vettel. I think when Vettel teams up with Alonso, Raikkonen or Hamilton in the future people will realise how good he was.

I don't know if any of you listened to the pitpass podcast with Martin Brundle last month, but in it he talked about his time with Schumacher at Benetton and how Briatore did not know how good Michael was so he was not to impressed with Brundles performance, but later on when it was clear that Michael was a superstar Briatore realised he made a mistake in getting rid of Brundle. I think something similar will happen with Webber, in that Vettel goes to Ferrari and beats Alonso and people look back at Webbers time against Vettel and realise what a good job he did.

This, all the way.
Webber's image is the victim of people's hatred for Vettel. People can't accept Vettel's talent, thus this must mean Webber is completely useless. Spot on comparisson with Brundle.
I think Button and Webber are pretty even, with Webber being the better qualifier (by a margin) and Button the better racer.

I think Webber is really underrated, I always thought him better than Button still do but below the top guys like Alonso and Vettel. I think when Vettel teams up with Alonso, Raikkonen or Hamilton in the future people will realise how good he was.

I don't know if any of you listened to the pitpass podcast with Martin Brundle last month, but in it he talked about his time with Schumacher at Benetton and how Briatore did not know how good Michael was so he was not to impressed with Brundles performance, but later on when it was clear that Michael was a superstar Briatore realised he made a mistake in getting rid of Brundle. I think something similar will happen with Webber, in that Vettel goes to Ferrari and beats Alonso and people look back at Webbers time against Vettel and realise what a good job he did.

The comparison is not apt. Brundle drove for Benetton (with Schumacher as a team mate) for 1 season and was then dropped. Webber is now in his fifth season alongside Vettel and has been offered contract extensions (which he has accepted). Clearly the management at Red Bull do rate him otherwise they would have dropped him some years ago.

I don't think that Webber is underrated. Granted he appears to be getting shafted to a degree.... but his latent talent kinda tallies with where he is right now.

Someone pulled up the DC comparison. That's basically it for me.

I also reckon that if you offered Webbo a minimum of 9 F1 wins back in the mid 2000's he would have ripped your arm off.......

I think Button and Webber are pretty even, with Webber being the better qualifier (by a margin) and Button the better racer.

I'd add that Mark has the edge in a dodgy car as well. The one thing in Button's career that's really stood out for me is that as soon as the car is in a place he doesn't like, his performance drops away massively. Just have to look at the second half of his WDC year as a prime example, but his whole career is littered with similar stories.

For me, Mark has the ability to wrestle a bad car that Button lacks. Sometimes (Williams) wrestling too hard, but I'd take that any day over a driver who just settles.

Props to Button so far this year though - he's bucked the trend of previous seasons to a certain extent. But I have a feeling that's because the car's just plain slow, rather than having characteristics Button doesn't like.

A solid second tier driver, along the likes of Button, Barrichello, Coulthard, Massa, Hill, Patrese, Berger and many other. Good enough to keep a spot in a top team, but no great loss to F1 when he moves on. All of these drivers are good enough to win a championship under the right circumstances, but sometimes you don't get your chance.

A solid second tier driver, along the likes of Button, Barrichello, Coulthard, Massa, Hill, Patrese, Berger and many other. Good enough to keep a spot in a top team, but no great loss to F1 when he moves on. All of these drivers are good enough to win a championship under the right circumstances, but sometimes you don't get your chance.

Mark got his chance though, in 2010. He just needed to bring the car home in Korea and he would have likely been a 2010 WDC.

OT - why does everyone rant and rave about Hulkenberg? I don't deny he has talent but I don't think he's got any more than Di Resta, Sutil, Maldonado, Kobayashi or some other F1 drivers who have never had a top seat.

On topic - I've said in other threads that. if Kimi does leave Lotus, Webber would be a good replacement for him. For one thing, he'd be going in as the number one driver, which could do wonders for his driving - look at how much Coulthard changed when he joined Red Bull. If Lotus have committed to Grosjean, it would be a bad idea to pair him with another ambitious young driver, so Webber's maturity would be an asset. Plus, he's been through several regulation changes since he started in F1 this experience could be an asset to Lotus in 2014. Finally, he's proved he can mix it up at the front and, as Lotus are in the ascendancy, it would makes sense to have someone who can put the car on the podium in the car rather than someone who looks able to do so.

Mark got his chance though, in 2010. He just needed to bring the car home in Korea and he would have likely been a 2010 WDC.

That kind of makes the point though, he had the chance and he didn't take it.

OT - why does everyone rant and rave about Hulkenberg? I don't deny he has talent but I don't think he's got any more than Di Resta, Sutil, Maldonado, Kobayashi or some other F1 drivers who have never had a top seat.

Well, I think Hulk has already proven he is better prospect than di Resta consistently outperforming Paul in the second half of last year.

F1 team bosses apparently rate him as a better prospect than Kobayashi, because Hulk, despite not bringing major sponsorship with him, could chose where would he drive this year (Force India or Sauber), while Kobayashi was left without such choice, despite reportedly gathering some financial support from Japan.

Maldonado is yet to prove he isn't too much error prone to deliver the best out of the good car consistently.
Etc.

I think you have an answer here.

Well, I think Hulk has already proven he is better prospect than di Resta consistently outperforming Paul in the second half of last year.

F1 team bosses apparently rate him as a better prospect than Kobayashi, because Hulk, despite not bringing major sponsorship with him, could chose where would he drive this year (Force India or Sauber), while Kobayashi was left without such choice, despite reportedly gathering some financial support from Japan.

Maldonado is yet to prove he isn't too much error prone to deliver the best out of the good car consistently.
Etc.

I think you have an answer here.

He outperformed Di Resta in the last quarter of last year, but Di Resta has outperformed him in the first quarter of this season IMHO. My point it more that, yes he has potential, but the other drivers who have potential aren't getting as hyped. The only driver of Hulkenberg's generation so far trusted by a big name team is Sergio Perez, and, on this forum at least, you keep reading how overrated he is!

Anyway, if I were running Lotus I wouldn't pair Grosjean and Hulkenberg, two young ambitious drivers in one team would be a recipie for disaster. Another reason why Webber would be a better fit if Kimi does leave.

Edited by Dunc, 07 May 2013 - 22:08.

Would you clarify bolded within its context, please? (I am unaware of any link of those three you mentioned). Lauda attempting to lure Seb into a team is very old news, and not active anymore; other than that..?

I don't think its old news,Merc. are trying to lure Seb.,both thru Marko. & directly,into the Team,that's why Rosberg has been so subservient since Hamilton arrived.Marko was quoted recently as saying he wouldn't stand in the way of Seb. joining Ferrari in the future,some Journo's,and my niece is one,think there is a much more lucrative offer being dangled by Stuttgart

I don't think its old news,Merc. are trying to lure Seb.,both thru Marko. & directly,into the Team,that's why Rosberg has been so subservient since Hamilton arrived.Marko was quoted recently as saying he wouldn't stand in the way of Seb. joining Ferrari in the future,some Journo's,and my niece is one,think there is a much more lucrative offer being dangled by Stuttgart

It was Mateschitz. What Marko said the other day was he could understand Lauda's (previously Haug's) attempt to lure Vettel and he had no hard feelings about it.
There's no way it would be done 'through' Marko who works for the opposite side, Red Bull.

Mark got his chance though, in 2010. He just needed to bring the car home in Korea and he would have likely been a 2010 WDC.

He probably could have done without his teammate smashing into him in Turkey. A way more important moment in the championship IMO.

But Korea was entirely in his control, thats why its so pivotal.

I'll also add my voice to the Coulthard comparison. Very good driver, on his day can/could match it (and better) some of the greats but never consistently enough to be a proper WDC threat.
Some stunning drives (like bitchslapping Monaco twice) and always in the frame at the teams you'd want to drive for means that people ragging on him are just blinkered haters.

It was Mateschitz. What Marko said the other day was he could understand Lauda's (previously Haug's) attempt to lure Vettel and he had no hard feelings about it.
There's no way it would be done 'through' Marko who works for the opposite side, Red Bull.

Ok, but the quote i read was earlier this year,before the Vettel to Ferrari rumours started,was definitly Marko but he heavily backtracked once the Ferrari story hit main stream media saying RB were going to offer Seb. a long term contract to keep him at the Team beyond 2014.

http://www.f1-fansit...-to-get-vettel/

But Korea was entirely in his control, thats why its so pivotal.

I'll also add my voice to the Coulthard comparison. Very good driver, on his day can/could match it (and better) some of the greats but never consistently enough to be a proper WDC threat.
Some stunning drives (like bitchslapping Monaco twice) and always in the frame at the teams you'd want to drive for means that people ragging on him are just blinkered haters.

+1

On his day he can be brilliant but just too inconsistent overall.

He probably could have done without his teammate smashing into him in Turkey. A way more important moment in the championship IMO.

I disagree, Mark lost max. 10 points here, he finished 3rd while Vettel retired. So he still gained 15 points over Vettel. Mark blew it in Korea, all by himself.

That kind of makes the point though, he had the chance and he didn't take it.

Difference between Webber and Button (for instance) though, is that when Button had his chance to take, he had Rubens Barrichello as a team mate. When Webber had his chance, he had Vettel.

A solid second tier driver, along the likes of Button, Barrichello, Coulthard, Massa, Hill, Patrese, Berger and many other. Good enough to keep a spot in a top team, but no great loss to F1 when he moves on. All of these drivers are good enough to win a championship under the right circumstances, but sometimes you don't get your chance.

I feel that you're missing out on a richer F1 experience if you consider losing those sorts of guys as "no great loss". I'd rather have a grid full of those chaps than the Vettels and Alonsos of this world tbh.

I feel that you're missing out on a richer F1 experience if you consider losing those sorts of guys as "no great loss". I'd rather have a grid full of those chaps than the Vettels and Alonsos of this world tbh.

Don't disagree with the first part, but very curious about the second part.
Care to elaborate?

Webber is great man and he is one of my favorite drivers, but he lost his speed. He only looks fast because of Red Bull.
That would be a good and wise decision, if true.

Red Bull should hire some young and fast driver.

Don't disagree with the first part, but very curious about the second part.
Care to elaborate?

I don't tend to like the win-at-all-costs attitude that they embody (not picking on them in particular). I tend to find less successful, and dare I say less capable drivers more interesting. A grid full of only their type would be a bit stale after a while.

But Korea was entirely in his control, thats why its so pivotal.

Just like Spa was totally in Fernando's control. But you don't hear people constantly bringing it up to accuse Fernando of choking.

I disagree, Mark lost max. 10 points here, he finished 3rd while Vettel retired. So he still gained 15 points over Vettel. Mark blew it in Korea, all by himself.

It's not just about the points. It's about momentum. Had Mark won Turkey he would have won three in a row and his momentum would have been incredible. But instead Vettel smashed into him, they gift-wrapped the McLarens a 1-2 finish, and Mark's momentum went up in a puff of smoke - and Red Bull pointed the finger at him. Vettel's psychology at the time of Turkey would have been very interesting.

You cannot hang ups and downs of Webber's career on Vettel, regardless how hard you try. Webber is constructor of his own destiny, and nothing will mask that. I do not want to go back to Turkey, which has been in here raised (again) several times, but based on totality of the scene that followed, I strongly suspect that Webber was probably expected to yield (for some reasons), he hasn't, consequently one thing led to another, and until from inside puts this story straight, there is no point to blame aimlessly Vettel alone. Webber is a red neck, as proven on several occasions, last time in Maly this year after race, don't make mistake about that, and perception of him as personification of an angel who is always oppressed by his teammate and a team might be very misleading. My confidence in his all the time present innocence is really on ice.

It's terrible when you look at a career and you wonder 'What if?'. Moving to Renault in 2005, not busting up his leg in 08/09 and Korea '10. But that is just nonsense. The past is immovable and shall remain so. There is no need for silly fanboy day dreaming. I say let's look at a grand career with lots of positives and a LOT of thrills, good and bad. It is and was a pleasure to be a Webber fan through the years and I have a big bag of fond memories to boot. My favorite win is Monaco '10, he was f$%king untouchable that day.

I don't think it's his age that is holding him back, it's Red Bull's environment that is. Yet, it's a double edged sword because they gave him the car he dreamt of in his tenure in F1, but the also gave him a brutal talented young champion of a teammate that has nearly all of the team behind him. I'll never, ever forget Istanbul 2010. Marko, Horner and the others can go wallowing in mud for all I care. And sadly, I won't forget Korea either. The shame...

Well, that is the past. No point in being a p*ssy about it and move on. Maybe he has more in him (which I do believe) and he can show us a couple of fantastic wins in the near future or his spirit is not quite in it anymore. If that is the case, he should go with his head held high because he made it in F1 and he kicked some ass along the way too. Bloody good mate, I say.

The thing is, where should he go in F1 besides RBR? Unfortunately his two Ferrari offers (in '10 and last year, I believe) were his only two chances of having red overalls. I wouldn't mind though if he would spend a final year or two at the Scuderia with his kinda-BFF. Or maybe Lotus? I doubt it because of the recent news in regards to James Allison. But, it's F1 who knows. Just please... no more RBR, Mark. For the life of me, I can't stand Horner, Marko, Seb and their post race euro-trash blasting from the garage.

No more F1? No problem. But there is one thing I desperately want to see happen. Mark to win Le Mans. Get at it, mate! LM or bust. I mean the dude freaking loves Porches, c'mon.

And on a final note, with Catalunya, Monaco, Silverstone and the Nurburgring coming up, I'll be watching F1 and Mark more intensely than usual. Roll on the European season, yes.

(aaaaand it seems my second favorite driver, Kimi, is destined to go to Red Bull bloody w$nkers)