Bring back 1 circuit from the last 20 years...

I disagree, as that's purely a subjective matter.

Fair enough.

Keep in mind too regarding Imola (I've posted about this in another topic on here) that when they made the changes to the circuit in 1995, they never bothered to offset the removal of the main overtaking area with anything else. With braking distances shortening each year, it became more and more difficult to overtake in the few sections where one used to overtake. The most recent renovations that restored the circuit to FIA Grade 1, addresses that. If F1 did return there, I think it'd be an altogether different race from what we saw for the most part during the 1995-2004 period. A boring race on a classic F1 circuit is still better than watching cars running around most of Tilke's abominations.

Agree. That´s why I said before "latest Imola versions" resembling the Hungaroring. But it wasn´t always like that.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 04 June 2013 - 00:32.

I'm sorry, I thought we were offering subject opinions here. Why don't you kindly take your's and shove it up your ass?

Kthx.

Yes, we´re offering opinions, and my opinion is that your criteria to pick the circuit to which F1 should go in your homeland is ridiculous.

Did all you people actually watched Imola races back in the day?

Depends, what day are you talking about? Before Imola was castrated it was a fantastic circuit. Great corners, elevation changes, speed, it had eveything.

Get rid of Catalunya, bring back Kyalami. (or Jarama)

Edited by klyster, 04 June 2013 - 01:51.

Depends, what day are you talking about? Before Imola was castrated it was a fantastic circuit. Great corners, elevation changes, speed, it had eveything.

Agree.

I actually loved the Imola circuit before they put all of the chicanes in it after Senna's death. While some races may have been boring, it was still something else watching them go through some of those sections quite fast.

Senna at the Old Ring.

This thread has reminded me of one of the things I liked about A1GP. It visited some great older tracks that F1 would never go to. Brands Hatch, Estoril, Kyalami, Mexico City and Zandvoort were all ex-F1 tracks that made an appearance, as well as almost-F1 tracks like Brno and Portimao.

This thread has reminded me of one of the things I liked about A1GP. It visited some great older tracks that F1 would never go to. Brands Hatch, Estoril, Kyalami, Mexico City and Zandvoort were all ex-F1 tracks that made an appearance, as well as almost-F1 tracks like Brno and Portimao.

Great shout! It had a brilliant calendar. Remember the Durban street race, that was brand new at the time (ie, not a classic) but a fun layout too.

Istanbul in, Catalunya out.

Depends, what day are you talking about? Before Imola was castrated it was a fantastic circuit. Great corners, elevation changes, speed, it had eveything.

Well, yeah. This is why I said this is probably a nostalgia thing.

Even with the track having been updated, I am still not sure it would greatly suit a modern F1 car.

I said before, there are many great tracks that simply don't suit an F1 car these days. This is not necessarily a slight towards the track.

It also has to do with track width. I know some tracks are getting stupidly wide but a track has to be wide enough to facilitate racing. It's why so many people like Istanbul. The track is good but if it wasn't wide enough we would only have had processions there and you wouldn't see so many people remembering it fondly.

Edited by EvanRainer, 04 June 2013 - 12:40.

Fair enough.



Agree. That´s why I said before "latest Imola versions" resembling the Hungaroring. But it wasn´t always like that.

The Hungaroring is a weird one for me. I actually do like the circuit which puts me in a very, very, small minority I suspect.

Probably the only reason I want F1 to continue there is less because I think it's a good circuit for them, and more because I'd prefer not to see another Tilke creation replace it.

The Hungaroring is a weird one for me. I actually do like the circuit which puts me in a very, very, small minority I suspect.

Probably the only reason I want F1 to continue there is less because I think it's a good circuit for them, and more because I'd prefer not to see another Tilke creation replace it.

According to some of the drivers, it is an enjoyable track to drive around, especially the middle sector. However as a viewer it is not entertaining because of the lack of overtaking.

I really like the Hungaroring as a track. It's just not good for F1.

Senna at the Old Ring.

V12, sparks, long straights, left right flicks instead of stop and go chincanes or hairpins... We'll never see that again.

The Hungaroring is a weird one for me. I actually do like the circuit which puts me in a very, very, small minority I suspect.

Probably the only reason I want F1 to continue there is less because I think it's a good circuit for them, and more because I'd prefer not to see another Tilke creation replace it.

I quite like it too, though maybe because I just remember Button winning there back in 06

I want A1 ring back, Catalunia gone.
A1 ring might not be a very spectacular track, but it the racing there was almost always good. The Barcelone track on the other hand... It is a really nice track, lot of interesting corners and I am sure it is fun to drive there but there is never any racing. The latest changes made it even worse, I don't understand what they were thinking building that last chicane.

Agree with cat, I've only ever "driven" it in the F1 and Forza games. But that last chicane is absolute bullshit

Other then that, its an awesome track with a little bit of everything regarding corners, the first two sectors are all downforce and power but the last sector is all mechanical grip.

The chicane before New Holland corner at Catalunya had to do with the need to improve safety as usual.

I don't dislike the Hungaroring. Over the past few years I've argued on this forum that Barcelona has hosted more snorefests than Budapest has done.

According to some of the drivers, it is an enjoyable track to drive around, especially the middle sector. However as a viewer it is not entertaining because of the lack of overtaking.

That's definitely the problem with the track in a nutshell; very difficult to overtake even with all the aids in place currently.

Onboard laps of the circuit are a lot of fun to watch. It has such a nice flow to it. I think it needs a repaving though if they haven't already done one since last year. I remember there being a bunch of cracks in the pavement on the start/finish straight. I want to even say there were chunks of pavement missing too if I remember correctly.

I don't dislike the Hungaroring. Over the past few years I've argued on this forum that Barcelona has hosted more snorefests than Budapest has done.

I agree. Catalunya is a nice track, but it's never been really good for F1 in all of the eras we've gone through with rule changes. Even the moment of Senna battling Mansell down the main straight in 1991 which gets a lot of hype, doesn't change that the race as I remember it was dull as hell outside of that moment.

I'd much rather have the Hungaroring over Catalunya personally.

99 A1-ring

No KERS, DRS, Pirellis and the race was eventfull for its time.

Newey cars on short gearing

The chicane before New Holland corner at Catalunya had to do with the need to improve safety as usual.

Yes, but there is different ways of doing it and they picked the worst possible one. There must be data on what is the best way to enter a overtaking area in low speed. To me, forcing the the trailing car to accelerate through a high speed corner going into a straight is not ideal since they will have less downforce than the car they will attempt to overtake. The closer they are into the chicane, the more they will have lost when they come into the straight. Not sure I am right there, but the changes just made a hopeless track even worse.

Edited by ardbeg, 05 June 2013 - 16:25.

I really like the Hungaroring as a track. It's just not good for F1.

Yeah I agree, it's a nice track just not for modern F1. It used to be better suited to F1 than it is now (when the cars were slower and had much less powerful brakes)

There's nothing wrong safety wise with the New Holland corner at Catalunya. It's just that safety has jumped the shark. Nobody was going to die there.

There's nothing wrong safety wise with the New Holland corner at Catalunya. It's just that safety has jumped the shark. Nobody was going to die there.

Ok, you should have told them that earlier and saved them millions of dollars!

Amazing, these sofa safety experts....

There are strong rumours that Monza will be replaced by Mugello next year:

http://www.blogf1.it...rischia-grosso/

As much as I'd like to see F1 cars racing at Mugello I'd not like it to be at the expense of Monza.

Don't understand why so many want Imoa back when it was virtually impossible to overtake on?

As much as I'd like to see F1 cars racing at Mugello I'd not like it to be at the expense of Monza.

Yep, Mugello is a nice track with some good high speed corners. However Monza has the history and a great layout which is quite unique on today's F1 calendar.

Buddh or Yeongam out.
Fewer polluted air asian races -> better for everyone.


1995 layout Adelaide in: The best street circuit ever made.

2 votes for Spa to be dropped... riiiiiight. I'd drop Bahrain and bring back Hockenheim. I always enjoyed how a couple surprise frontrunners would appear at that track because their normally midfield cars happened to be especially slippery in ultra low downforce configs. I'm thinking Arrows '00 and Jordan '99, among others.

For me A1-ring was always a highlight with lots of nice passing and this was of course before the Kers and DRS days. Was just taken off as part of Bernie's silly revenge against EU for the tobacco advertising ban..

As much as I'd like to see F1 cars racing at Mugello I'd not like it to be at the expense of Monza.

Yes, Monza is.... Monza. But I don't think it will be possible to keep that track, too many people want it gone. People who have other interests than racing.

Buddh or Yeongam out.
Fewer polluted air asian races -> better for everyone.


1995 layout Adelaide in: The best street circuit ever made.

This. I actually started a thread a while back about the "foggy" South-East Asian races, and what people thought of them. The result was mostly negative. I also agree with Adelaide, what a circuit that was/is.

Don't understand why so many want Imoa back when it was virtually impossible to overtake on?

It 'was' almost impossible, indeed. Game has changed.

Buddh or Yeongam out.
Fewer polluted air asian races -> better for everyone.


1995 layout Adelaide in: The best street circuit ever made.

Yeongam air polluted?

I can't believe what I'm reading--sorry. 'Fast' is what motor racing is all about: you should have the world's fastest vehicles and the drivers who dare to race them--those who are afraid to do so can sit on the sidelines. For additional information, see 'MotoGP'.

I tend to agree with this. If you can still have Monaco on the calendar, you can have any old historic circuit back.

I also lament the standardised, Tilke circuits . . . it's part of the reason we're having to fiddle with tyres for artificial interest. Many of the old circuits all brought different challenges and different advantages to certain teams . . not to mention different atmospheres for spectators too. The undulating Brands Hatch was a wonderful spectator track compared to flatland Silverstone - you could see a very long way around the circuit at Brands.

If anyone cared about spectators, places like Brands Hatch and Zandvoort would still be on the calendar.

I think we'd get many nice upsets if we went back to the old circuits. Or simply just more variety. Keke Rosberg would come up with the odd win on silly tracks, like Dallas. Berger's first win was in Austria, on a very atypical circuit.

Going even further in Grand Prix history, why have circuits at all? Why not just close the roads one Sunday for a couple of hours and have a Paris-Bordeaux GP, or whatever. Very manufacturer relevant.

1995 layout Adelaide in: The best street circuit ever made.

I think we'd get many nice upsets if we went back to the old circuits. Or simply just more variety. Keke Rosberg would come up with the odd win on silly tracks, like Dallas. Berger's first win was in Austria, on a very atypical circuit.

It was Mexico. I agree with the idea though. Having more variety in circuits means it's more likely you'll have an odd result.

Edited by PayasYouRace, 17 June 2013 - 15:39.

In: Imola
Out: Yeongam

It was Mexico. I agree with the idea though. Having more variety in circuits means it's more likely you'll have an odd result.

Thanks. The memory plays strange tricks . . . Now I look it up, in Austria he qualified on the front row and led for 25 laps, which was a change in form.

Thanks. The memory plays strange tricks . . . Now I look it up, in Austria he qualified on the front row and led for 25 laps, which was a change in form.

Not wishing to go off topic but in Austria that year the Benettons were amazingly fast, unfortunately both broke down. The win in Mexico was well deserved after a number of competitive outings that year, especially on the power circuits. That BMW turbo was a beast.

There are strong rumours that Monza will be replaced by Mugello next year:

http://www.blogf1.it...rischia-grosso/

Oh please no, they'll ruin the track with their run offs and ****.

Yeongam air polluted?

Maybe not too polluted, yet.

But miserable anyway.

Since Hockenheim is demolished, it looks like we're going back to Österreich. Good.

Maybe not too polluted, yet.

But miserable anyway.

Buddh's haze is particularly conspicuous somehow, could be because of air pollution but i'm not sure.
Air pollution in Shanghai's, Peking etc is an issue and surely getting worse recently, altho I dont get impression that Shanghai GP is too hazy.

But Yeongam? No.
jus like London and Berlin is quite far and very different, Buddh and Yeaongam is very far and different. and just like US/Europe is very big and diverse, Asia is very big and very different. Still, haze due to moisture and sand particle is one of features of some parts of Asia. We hear reports on air polution in many parts of Asia recently so easy to mix up and automatically conclude it's air pollution.

for you guys this Yeongam looks air pollution?



it's not air pollution.
to me this is typical and familiar "cloudy, low visibility due to high humidity/moisture day".

Yeongam's mistake is that they tried to (still trying to ?) make "Valencia+Monaco+Singapore" from zero. It's sort of resort new town development but that's too ambitious. They shouldve made full-on racing circuit instead of that silly hybrid.
Actually the location is not suited for building a race track at all in the first place coz that area is muddy sediment layer, but still it's lovely place so they couldve taken advantage of scenery. But instead they killed it by surrounding it with concrete walls around the track so everything looks bland.

Yeongam circuit (based on clip posted) looks really depressing in terms of a social Event. If you are in Monaco, there is party going on for a week, and somehow race is then fitted-in. It's a social grab, but racing somewhere among farmer's fields (if that's what it is), then I say on TV that race looks much better than being there. I don't want to be unfair, but that picture is not offering much hope right now.

Edited by Sakae, 19 June 2013 - 22:39.

Buddh's haze is particularly conspicuous somehow, could be because of air pollution but i'm not sure.
Air pollution in Shanghai's, Peking etc is an issue and surely getting worse recently, altho I dont get impression that Shanghai GP is too hazy.

But Yeongam? No.
jus like London and Berlin is quite far and very different, Buddh and Yeaongam is very far and different. and just like US/Europe is very big and diverse, Asia is very big and very different. Still, haze due to moisture and sand particle is one of features of some parts of Asia. We hear reports on air polution in many parts of Asia recently so easy to mix up and automatically conclude it's air pollution.

for you guys this Yeongam looks air pollution?

https://fbcdn-sphoto...127974276_n.jpg

it's not air pollution.
to me this is typical and familiar "cloudy, low visibility due to high humidity/moisture day".

Yeongam's mistake is that they tried to (still trying to ?) make "Valencia+Monaco+Singapore" from zero. It's sort of resort new town development but that's too ambitious. They shouldve made full-on racing circuit instead of that silly hybrid.
Actually the location is not suited for building a race track at all in the first place coz that area is muddy sediment layer, but still it's lovely place so they couldve taken advantage of scenery. But instead they killed it by surrounding it with concrete walls around the track so everything looks bland.

I meant the overall atmosphere when I used word "miserable".

The countryside itself may be interesting, but that track just doesn´t suit there. I´m sure there are much better places for making a normal permanent circuit in some other area in South Korea.